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Gyle
Caldari Knights of Chaos Chaos Incarnate.
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Posted - 2007.09.06 21:55:00 -
[91]
Originally by: Vicious Phoenix Edited by: Vicious Phoenix on 28/08/2007 00:11:08
Originally by: Stephannus Calimben motherships cost 40billion + mods to buy. How many pirates do you think actually own one of these? like 4? You're talking about nerfing an entire ship class because a few super old super rich pirates have one?
the lock times on one of those things is so long, that even with sensor boosters he's not gunna be able to get you if you unless you afk.
The only thing motherships can really do on a gate is tank, gang assist, and smartbomb, and considering a smartbombing battleship is maybe 70% as effective and 3% as expensive, you might as well have 3 smartbombing battleships than one mothership. and its not like they can smartbomb everything coming to the gate, only **** coming across their path. if you have anything expensive you should be hopping from gate-safespot-safespot-gate not gate-gate, and definately not without a scout.
motherships may be the ultimate smartbombers, but theyre still not cost effective for gatecamping, theyre just a giant e-***** for a few grizzly old vets.
1) We're talking about nerfing a ship class because it is invulnerable and un-killable in lowsec. 2) With a pair of officer SBs a mom locks faster than any non-boosted battleship. 3) Except you can kill those battleships, you can't kill the mom. 4) 24 orge I's will kill most stuff pretty damn quick and they are quite usable.
The devs nerfed stabs because they didn't want people to be able to engage and then run whenever they felt like it. If they still believe that then moms need to be tacklable in lowsec or not allowed to go there.
Again more whining about motherships from people who will never own one and therefor want to see the game changed.
Motherships are super caps, and as such are stupendously expensive to build/buy
They have already been uber nerfed by the dictor boost for 0.0, they should not be touched in low sec.
Devs, stay away from these ludicrous suggestions at all costs!!!
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Mr Broker
Station Gremlings
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Posted - 2007.09.07 22:54:00 -
[92]
npc operated supercapital scrambling battery at every low-sec gate
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pinchaloaf
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Posted - 2007.09.09 00:41:00 -
[93]
Edited by: pinchaloaf on 09/09/2007 00:41:14
Originally by: Gyle Again more whining about motherships from people who will never own one and therefor want to see the game changed.
Motherships are super caps, and as such are stupendously expensive to build/buy
They have already been uber nerfed by the dictor boost for 0.0, they should not be touched in low sec.
Devs, stay away from these ludicrous suggestions at all costs!!!
/agree 100% Casual players who joined in the past year should not beable to agrue this kind of stuff because they just try to sway public opinion in favor of themselves. It's time to put the message out that this game is tested thoroughly and the high end stuff is high end because you need to spend time, and money to get it (and i don't mean buying isk, i mean working for it and paying for your subscription).
Lock this thread please.
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Sedyna
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Posted - 2007.09.09 01:54:00 -
[94]
Originally by: pinchaloaf Edited by: pinchaloaf on 09/09/2007 00:41:14
Originally by: Gyle Again more whining about motherships from people who will never own one and therefor want to see the game changed.
Motherships are super caps, and as such are stupendously expensive to build/buy
They have already been uber nerfed by the dictor boost for 0.0, they should not be touched in low sec.
Devs, stay away from these ludicrous suggestions at all costs!!!
/agree 100% Casual players who joined in the past year should not beable to agrue this kind of stuff because they just try to sway public opinion in favor of themselves. It's time to put the message out that this game is tested thoroughly and the high end stuff is high end because you need to spend time, and money to get it (and i don't mean buying isk, i mean working for it and paying for your subscription).
Lock this thread please.
Damn right, f*ck newbies, this game is for the vets!
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Deva Blackfire
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.09.09 02:34:00 -
[95]
Originally by: Gyle
Again more whining about motherships from people who will never own one and therefor want to see the game changed.
Motherships are super caps, and as such are stupendously expensive to build/buy
They have already been uber nerfed by the dictor boost for 0.0, they should not be touched in low sec.
Devs, stay away from these ludicrous suggestions at all costs!!!
Yay! Another dense guy. 1. They arent "stupidly" expensive. Any person who spends 3 months or so only NPCing in 0.0 can buy one. Also price should NEVER give you invulnerability. If it does - please tell me how much i need to pay to pwn anyone and not to die. I WILL raise that money and come pwn you everyday just for sake of it.
2. There are WAY more motherships showing up in game than leaving it. Thus the "rare" tag will disappear from them sooner or later (same as with carriers/dreads).
3. they werent "uber nerfed". They just became possible to kill. And yes they WILL get nerf in lowsec - this i can assure you of. Only thing its "soon", wonder why its not "already done" by CCP.
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Captian Internet
Lead Bricks
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Posted - 2007.09.09 03:11:00 -
[96]
Using this logic Frig swarms can not beat battleships
Using this logic if I paid 50bill for a velator I should be immune to death
Local Thread 107-b,War without a victor penalties,Navigation Shortcuts |
Dominator9987
Minmatar The Coalition Of Buccaneers Mercenary Services
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Posted - 2007.09.09 06:27:00 -
[97]
Edited by: Dominator9987 on 09/09/2007 06:27:26
Originally by: Deva Blackfire Yay! Another dense guy. 1. They arent "stupidly" expensive. Any person who spends 3 months or so only NPCing in 0.0 can buy one. Also price should NEVER give you invulnerability. If it does - please tell me how much i need to pay to pwn anyone and not to die. I WILL raise that money and come pwn you everyday just for sake of it.
2. There are WAY more motherships showing up in game than leaving it. Thus the "rare" tag will disappear from them sooner or later (same as with carriers/dreads).
3. they werent "uber nerfed". They just became possible to kill. And yes they WILL get nerf in lowsec - this i can assure you of. Only thing its "soon", wonder why its not "already done" by CCP.
So you are saying since you cant scramble their jump drive that you want that changed so that when you do someday come up with a force powerful enough to take them on, you can do it without them being able to run?
Oh and since when is being able to run (because you could die if you don't) a form of invulnerability? (thats a rhetorical question, im just making you look like a fool.)
Oh, and since all these people are able to buy these ships do you think that everyone has properly trained for them? (rhetorical once again)
If you yourself had spent the time to properly train for one, would you expect people to just come in with a frig, scram u, and then its pretty much game over til his buds get there? (rhetorical)
If you can answer these than I suggest you examine your logic, the quoted post had none and therefore I can't see any reason to really debate your understanding of the game.
Continueing on,
Originally by: Sedyna Damn right, f*ck newbies, this game is for the vets!
Note that when you started playing WOW that you started with a level 1 character. You had to work to get to lvl 10 so you quit and now you're here. Thing is that here, you gotta wait to get to lvl 10, and the time you wait is based on the decisions you've made. Level 70 might only be a month away where you come from, but here, its quite a bit longer. Maybe you should take your ADD and head back there because here, you're just wasting space on the forums.
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Deva Blackfire
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.09.09 11:50:00 -
[98]
Originally by: Dominator9987
So you are saying since you cant scramble their jump drive that you want that changed so that when you do someday come up with a force powerful enough to take them on, you can do it without them being able to run?
Uh - are you stupid or something? Ofc that it is the ONLY thing that makes ship invulnerable. If it had "i take no damage in lowsec" this would be FIRST thing to remove.
Originally by: Dominator9987
Oh and since when is being able to run (because you could die if you don't) a form of invulnerability? (thats a rhetorical question, im just making you look like a fool.)
You are either trying to be funny or making total idiot out of yourself. The 100% chance to run away (unless you crash with aggro and cant log back in) IS invulnerability. If you think its not - give me a proof of this: MS killmail from lowsec.
Originally by: Dominator9987
Oh, and since all these people are able to buy these ships do you think that everyone has properly trained for them? (rhetorical once again)
All carrier pilots can be "properly trained" mothership pilots within 15 hours or so - you just need to up skill by one level. Most of carrier pilots can ALREADY use it as soon as they get the ship.
Originally by: Dominator9987
If you yourself had spent the time to properly train for one, would you expect people to just come in with a frig, scram u, and then its pretty much game over til his buds get there? (rhetorical)
I spent time to train for BS. I know im vulnerable to intys. I spent time training for carrier. I know im vulnerable to inty/dictor. Why i SHOULDN't be vulnerable to DEDICATED TACKLER while in mothership? Give me one reason that doesnt contain "ISK spent" or "time needed to train" in it.
Originally by: Dominator9987
If you can answer these than I suggest you examine your logic, the quoted post had none and therefore I can't see any reason to really debate your understanding of the game.
You are pretty crappy analycyst. And as it seems you have basically no clue abt what makes ship invulnerable, how hard (or rather impossible) is to kill one in lowsec atm.
Ah - eve is NOT wow smartass. There is no "level 70" nor "endgame". And in EVE newbies have right to kill vet if they organise themselves, so pull your head from your ass and start using your brain. Because atm you are preaching typical "i played longer i MUST win" crap.
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Alteer
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Posted - 2007.09.09 12:19:00 -
[99]
This has become a bit of a flame fest but i'd like to look at it from a different angle for a sec.
I regularly fly low sec/0.0 hunting I spose I would technically be called a pirate except I dont have a low security status because I maintain it through missions/ratting etc, this is by the by. I have seen motherships used in gate camps etc. X13 come to mind...
Lets suppose you are an alliance with interestes in Low sec (moon mining, production etc) Now lets imagine for a second that a mercenary force - perhaps Mercenary Coalition is "contracted" against you. MC strike with shock and awe in the first few days of the contract and hit your assets with their Motherships. Perhaps you get a window of oppertunity no matter how small to strike the mothership - should it be fair that in low sec you have NO WAY of stopping that ship cynoing/warping out? The name of the game is balance, now I for one dont believe that banning motherships from low sec would be a fix at all. If you have those assets you will be inclined to use them - restricting their use in such a way would be overkill. You should however be able to tie the ship down in a way that gives you a fair chance of actually killing it.
Bubbles/dictor spheres would be a crazy idea in low sec, you think pirates are bad now I think it would be reasonable to either add a module/ship class or make a change to the Mothership itself that doesnt make it impossible to scramble but perhaps is chance based?
The whole game has changed overtime to promote factional/aliiance warfare - once factional warfare starts will you see low sec Gall/Amarr/Caldari/Minnie taken over by BoB/Ra/Goons etc because they can freely jump these type of ships into system and attack with practically NO FEAR of loss? Perhaps this is exactly what CCP are hoping for. In the meantime people whining about pirates using motherships in lowsec - and you are whining - stop, its always going to be the case that a few corps will use these tactics; it is still rare to see them used, its the blob nature of warfare now that people will bring bigger and better equipment to ensure they win.
Flame on.
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Dominator9987
Minmatar The Coalition Of Buccaneers Mercenary Services
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Posted - 2007.09.09 13:34:00 -
[100]
Originally by: Deva Blackfire something about interceptors and battleship training time yadda yadda/this is not wow, although for some reason if i spend a coupla weeks training for interceptor and T2 jammers i should beable to tackle anything including supercapitals.
oh and my mom told me i was cool.
no.
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Deva Blackfire
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.09.09 13:50:00 -
[101]
Edited by: Deva Blackfire on 09/09/2007 13:51:26
Originally by: Dominator9987
Originally by: Deva Blackfire something about interceptors and battleship training time yadda yadda/this is not wow, although for some reason if i spend a coupla weeks training for interceptor and T2 jammers i should beable to tackle anything including supercapitals.
oh and my mom told me i was cool.
no.
Wow your arguments are undeniable. I bow my head to you, troll.
Anyways arguing with s1 who saw mothership only on a screenshot is useless anyways. Go get one, fly with one then you might try to talk.
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Gyle
Caldari Knights of Chaos Chaos Incarnate.
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Posted - 2007.09.09 18:05:00 -
[102]
Originally by: Deva Blackfire
I spent time to train for BS. I know im vulnerable to intys. I spent time training for carrier. I know im vulnerable to inty/dictor. Why i SHOULDN't be vulnerable to DEDICATED TACKLER while in mothership? Give me one reason that doesnt contain "ISK spent" or "time needed to train" in it.
But thats exactly the point. Time and isk spent over practicality = ships use in the game.
If you make MS vulnerable to disruption, or EW then it becomes nothing more then a glorified carrier that can launch a few extra drones. If this is the case then ccp would need to make a few other changes too. They would have to be able to dock, be constructible in lowsec station factories and cost a tenth of the price to build.
That would be fun then wouldn't it. A super cap being... well... no longer super.
Alternatively you could just take the ovure's Titan stance on it and say "its not meant to be cost effective... its a huge d**k"
So each MS would be only as effective as two carriers in its place. But the colossal price tag would be nothing more then an epein status. At least with the titan you get a doomsaday and a jump bridge.
Or we could forget the whole cap ship thing since not everyone is gonna own one and go back to the days when a BS was all peeps could possibly aspire to.
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Captian Internet
Lead Bricks
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Posted - 2007.09.09 19:26:00 -
[103]
Originally by: Gyle
Originally by: Deva Blackfire
I spent time to train for BS. I know im vulnerable to intys. I spent time training for carrier. I know im vulnerable to inty/dictor. Why i SHOULDN't be vulnerable to DEDICATED TACKLER while in mothership? Give me one reason that doesnt contain "ISK spent" or "time needed to train" in it.
But thats exactly the point. Time and isk spent over practicality = ships use in the game.
If you make MS vulnerable to disruption, or EW then it becomes nothing more then a glorified carrier that can launch a few extra drones. If this is the case then ccp would need to make a few other changes too. They would have to be able to dock, be constructible in lowsec station factories and cost a tenth of the price to build.
That would be fun then wouldn't it. A super cap being... well... no longer super.
Alternatively you could just take the ovure's Titan stance on it and say "its not meant to be cost effective... its a huge d**k"
So each MS would be only as effective as two carriers in its place. But the colossal price tag would be nothing more then an epein status. At least with the titan you get a doomsaday and a jump bridge.
Or we could forget the whole cap ship thing since not everyone is gonna own one and go back to the days when a BS was all peeps could possibly aspire to.
Mother ships have always been Glorified carriers. The problem is that they are not balanced when it comes to them being in lowsec sitting on gates loln'g at anything and everything that shows a threat as they can cyno out as they please. Balance should not be run around price but around the potential of a ship Local Thread 107-b,War without a victor penalties,Navigation Shortcuts |
Dominator9987
Minmatar The Coalition Of Buccaneers Mercenary Services
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Posted - 2007.09.09 21:06:00 -
[104]
Originally by: Deva Blackfire Anyways arguing with s1 who saw mothership only on a screenshot is useless anyways. Go get one, fly with one then you might try to talk.
Been flying with them as support since january, been training for flying them for over a year and 1/2 now. I respect the fact that they are super-capitals and they live up to the name and I also run from them when I see them / don't try to engage a ship that can woop my ass.
I'm not sure why you people complain, the only real conclusion we can draw is that you can't beat them with what you got so you are gonna come on the board and complain til you find them nerfed to the point where you can beat them and then you might be satisfied til something else kicks your ass because your ego finds no limit.
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Gyle
Caldari Knights of Chaos Chaos Incarnate.
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Posted - 2007.09.09 21:14:00 -
[105]
Originally by: Dominator9987
Originally by: Deva Blackfire Anyways arguing with s1 who saw mothership only on a screenshot is useless anyways. Go get one, fly with one then you might try to talk.
Been flying with them as support since january, been training for flying them for over a year and 1/2 now. I respect the fact that they are super-capitals and they live up to the name and I also run from them when I see them / don't try to engage a ship that can woop my ass.
I'm not sure why you people complain, the only real conclusion we can draw is that you can't beat them with what you got so you are gonna come on the board and complain til you find them nerfed to the point where you can beat them and then you might be satisfied til something else kicks your ass because your ego finds no limit.
Signed many times
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Deva Blackfire
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.09.09 21:17:00 -
[106]
Originally by: Dominator9987
Originally by: Deva Blackfire Anyways arguing with s1 who saw mothership only on a screenshot is useless anyways. Go get one, fly with one then you might try to talk.
Been flying with them as support since january, been training for flying them for over a year and 1/2 now. I respect the fact that they are super-capitals and they live up to the name and I also run from them when I see them / don't try to engage a ship that can woop my ass.
I'm not sure why you people complain, the only real conclusion we can draw is that you can't beat them with what you got so you are gonna come on the board and complain til you find them nerfed to the point where you can beat them and then you might be satisfied til something else kicks your ass because your ego finds no limit.
No, conclusion is they are invincible in lowsec because there are no means of stopping em from escaping. This is like having "rock win all" in game of rock-paper-scissor. Setup without any counter breaks up balance leading to other people using said setup. Dont believe me? Then check the lowsec motherships to 0.0 motherships ratio. I can easily tell (even by looking at various killboards) you that this ratio is slowly increasing = more motherships start camping lowsec than engage in 0.0 combat. Why? Because its risk-free.
Yes i can evade em and do this all the time (only time i died to mothership was in 0.0, pre-warp to zero and me w/o bookmarks for area). Still it doesnt mean that mothership pilot can sit in one place "because he payed xx bil isk so he cant die".
As for "neutralize em/bump/whatever" - outbreak tried and failed. Why? Because even while bumped mom pilot can select corresponding celestial object and warp away, even without any cap. And there is ofc. problem of getting initial cap neutralisation, where most mom pilots have cynos ready to jump out as soon as local jumps by 3.
Additionally you still dont see that im not asking for "ikillmothership" module but for ways of holding em in place.
Quote: I'm not sure why you people complain, the only real conclusion we can draw is that you can't beat them with what you got so you are gonna come on the board and complain til you find them nerfed to the point where you can beat them and then you might be satisfied til something else kicks your ass because your ego finds no limit.
Also i wonder another thing - what genius plan can you come up with to kill lowsec mothership? Or maybe you have proper MSN contact and can aks for /kill playername command?
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Macmuelli
Gallente Gallente Mercantile Exchange Coalition Of Empires
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Posted - 2007.09.09 21:44:00 -
[107]
Edited by: Macmuelli on 09/09/2007 21:50:04 holding them in place = endless possibilty to form up a gang to have enough dmg to kill it... ( some ppls cannot afford waiting hrs....)
holding them in place include some dreads which can use siege modus = 6 minutes perhaps 7 and the ms is down...
one noob question
Why carriers have triage modus? are the aible to remote repair enough dmg on ships which could stop ms from warp ( bump) ? a well organised gang can remote repair each other, that the dmg of a ms can be neutralize. (or how ppls can tank pos damage if in systems are cyno jammers.) They need to attack with logistical background....
U dont have the chance to take out all frighter drones easy? ( normly its the first target against a ms dmg) If u cannot kill the ms u had make a big loss to him.
A mothership should be a challenge. Not A easy kill. U have chances against it in low security.
Against mothership ganks on gates the sentry guns shoud be modified to prevent it from warp. = no ganks if its vulnerable then.( except it has background
The point against nerfing them:
They cannot dock. They need a hughe investment and logistical work to get builded. They will be nearly worthless if they get nerfed.
ps : jump off timer 30 minutes when aggro by ms.
"Ein jeder ernte Ruhm auf seine Weise.....Gunnar von Hlidarendi "
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Captian Internet
Lead Bricks
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Posted - 2007.09.09 22:19:00 -
[108]
So you're saying the worth of a mother ship is determined by its ability to sit on a gate and lol at everything? Local Thread 107-b,War ,Navigation Shortcuts |
Jamie Hara
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.09.09 22:49:00 -
[109]
CCP has stated that they don't want solo pwn mobiles which is exactly what motherships are in lowsec empire. I wouldn't be surprised if we saw some reasonable changes to mothership mechanics in lowsec. |
Macmuelli
Gallente Gallente Mercantile Exchange Coalition Of Empires
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Posted - 2007.09.10 01:15:00 -
[110]
Edited by: Macmuelli on 10/09/2007 01:19:59 Edited by: Macmuelli on 10/09/2007 01:15:49
Originally by: Captian Internet So you're saying the worth of a mother ship is determined by its ability to sit on a gate and lol at everything?
U should try reading a bit better and understand some other positions then yours.
Why not found up a team and try one? perhaps a Motherships isnt a solopwnomobil. There are options to kill it.(logistics ship in background which can remote repair ships which can prevent a ms from warp then, try blocking it, get in distance that a better tanked ship can block it by warp in ..)
To stop ms pilots from jumping out in such a situation CCP should adding a agression timer which keep the ms pilot away from jump out. ( 30 minutes on his last agressive acts, which woud give u enough time.)
if u woud read better ... u should see that ppls try to suggest modifieying sentry guns on GATES, that caps/supercaps getting temporary or permanent scrambeld. This woud make them vulnerable. And woud stop "CAMPING GATES AND LOL AT EVERYTHING ".
ITS NOT WORTH investing in something expensive which can be killed so fast like u want.
Some modifiying and changes are needed. But not adding the possibilty to a frig prevent a ms from warp.
Btw a Mothershippilot which camped solo a gate had the wrong " profession" and must be realy bored.
I woud not USE one without any support.
So i think what u want is having the chance to gank solo mothership pilots. Sounds like nothing incommon with changing something which coud be interesting AND a challenge for BOTH sides. Sounds more u wanna push up your ego by kicking easy a hughe " D..K"
Anyway i feel this Discssion will end up in something endless, as long we see What CCP will produce by magic out of there hats.
I personal prefer some exotic dancer`s with rythm and no nerfing bunnys.
breg mac
"Ein jeder ernte Ruhm auf seine Weise.....Gunnar von Hlidarendi "
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zakina
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Posted - 2007.09.10 03:57:00 -
[111]
right, the yberness that is mommy's reflects the amount of effort work sweat and blood goes into each one... so too feking right there there the ****zle.
if your saying MS shouldn't be allowed into low sec (0.1-0.4) then I think the same principal should apply to n00bs. I've not been slain by a mothership... although I admit I have been in gang gate camping with 1 :D the only reason we had mothership was to counter others from attempting to bust our camp. the momma barely got any action and mostly worked as sebtry soaker taking the fire from the hacs.
you think its unfair the other kid has a bigger toy? less crying about it and go get your own MS and then attack it!
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Cpt Branko
The Bloody Red
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Posted - 2007.09.10 04:22:00 -
[112]
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 10/09/2007 04:23:57
Originally by: zakina less crying about it and go get your own MS and then attack it!
You do realise this is 100% useless?
Originally by: Macmuelli
Why not found up a team and try one? perhaps a Motherships isnt a solopwnomobil.
...
To stop ms pilots from jumping out in such a situation CCP should adding a agression timer which keep the ms pilot away from jump out. ( 30 minutes on his last agressive acts, which woud give u enough time.)
Saying it's fine in one part of the text and that CCP should patch it in the other part of the text is a complete logical failure.
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Howling Jinn
Kongsberg Vaapenfabrikk Amarr branch.
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Posted - 2007.09.10 04:39:00 -
[113]
Originally by: Macmuelli Edited by: Macmuelli on 10/09/2007 01:19:59 Edited by: Macmuelli on 10/09/2007 01:15:49
Originally by: Captian Internet So you're saying the worth of a mother ship is determined by its ability to sit on a gate and lol at everything?
U should try reading a bit better and understand some other positions then yours.
Why not found up a team and try one? perhaps a Motherships isnt a solopwnomobil. There are options to kill it.(logistics ship in background which can remote repair ships which can prevent a ms from warp then, try blocking it, get in distance that a better tanked ship can block it by warp in ..)
To stop ms pilots from jumping out in such a situation CCP should adding a agression timer which keep the ms pilot away from jump out. ( 30 minutes on his last agressive acts, which woud give u enough time.)
if u woud read better ... u should see that ppls try to suggest modifieying sentry guns on GATES, that caps/supercaps getting temporary or permanent scrambeld. This woud make them vulnerable. And woud stop "CAMPING GATES AND LOL AT EVERYTHING ".
ITS NOT WORTH investing in something expensive which can be killed so fast like u want.
Some modifiying and changes are needed. But not adding the possibilty to a frig prevent a ms from warp.
Btw a Mothershippilot which camped solo a gate had the wrong " profession" and must be realy bored.
I woud not USE one without any support.
So i think what u want is having the chance to gank solo mothership pilots. Sounds like nothing incommon with changing something which coud be interesting AND a challenge for BOTH sides. Sounds more u wanna push up your ego by kicking easy a hughe " D..K"
Anyway i feel this Discssion will end up in something endless, as long we see What CCP will produce by magic out of there hats.
I personal prefer some exotic dancer`s with rythm and no nerfing bunnys.
breg mac
bumping and logistics ships. right spot on! people have been waiting since ms came out for someone to come up with this idea.
btw have you tried to kill 1 in low sec?
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Icome4u
Caldari Dark and Light inc. D-L
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Posted - 2007.09.10 04:46:00 -
[114]
Who ever said it only takes 3 month of ratting to buy a Mothership deserve to be permanently ban from this game and forum. ______
Originally by: Vyger If I lose connection while walking around a station will my avatar run off in a random direction and go hide in a corner?
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Macmuelli
Gallente Gallente Mercantile Exchange Coalition Of Empires
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Posted - 2007.09.10 07:54:00 -
[115]
Edited by: Macmuelli on 10/09/2007 07:57:09
Originally by: Macmuelli
Why not found up a team and try one? perhaps a Motherships isnt a solopwnomobil.
...
To stop ms pilots from jumping out in such a situation CCP should adding a agression timer which keep the ms pilot away from jump out. ( 30 minutes on his last agressive acts, which woud give u enough time.)
Saying it's fine in one part of the text and that CCP should patch it in the other part of the text is a complete logical failure.
Difficult to translate it for me. It s more ppls say its an solopwnomobile, In 0.0 it isnt cos of dictors. A ms cannot break a tank if a dreadnought is in siege. What u need is max 10 minutes x 3 dreads and the ms blocked by tankers which are remote repped.
And low sec..u have a smal chance if u use logistics in background (u can remote repair a lot of dmg with drones/ remote amor reppers). To increase the smal chance,and prevent ms -pilots from jump out of system, i suggest the agression timer. This woud make it possible to scan him . (if he log off ... u can scan his ship to(agression timer) and have 15 minutes to kick him, so this would be his own fault then.
Ps: No we havent had the right numbers doing something like this. But what i can say is, that remote repairing with logisticals/ + repair drones can easely tank a lot of dmg.
U want him to hold in position. If he get a agression timer which prevent him from jumping out + perhaps a penalty in cloaking, u could have the chance scanning him again. And the "challenge" restart.
breg mac
Ps: in my motherlanguage it woud be all easier to suggest and write, but... this is an "language challenge"
"Ein jeder ernte Ruhm auf seine Weise.....Gunnar von Hlidarendi "
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Admiral S3
Alpha Defense League
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Posted - 2007.09.10 12:34:00 -
[116]
I am not sure what all the fuss is about, it was stated long, long ago that Capital ships can travel to .4 systems and below. A super Cap such as an MS is just a capital ship. Sure its got more armor, and sheilds and hull, but they cna be locked down just as easily as any other ship, some nuets or NOS and boom its not going anywhere till you let it, or it blows up, or its get some freinds to help get you off of it.
Additionally one has to look at it from an alliances POV. An MS has a huge carring capacity. Why should an alliance from 0.0 space fly 3 or 4 carriers out to pick up some NPC fuels for thier towers, when an MS can do the same job with a single jump.
Also, suppose your the owner of the MS, and your alliance just got its butt whipped in your corner of 0.0 space.... now your moving whats left of your alliance to another corner of space, maybe taking a few days rest to relax and rebuild a bit before maybe making a play to retake your old spot. Are you saying you would willingly leave your ship behind enemy lines? Rather then use it to defend your rag tag fleet of ships in thier mass exodus?
Its a capital ship. Thats all it is, nothing more then one big carrier, treat it the same way you would any other carrier and either leave it alone, or destroy it. Chances are if its in Empire space it does'nt have much of a defensive convoy anyways, or its in transit to another area and it won't be a problem for ya.
Quote: I am the Alpha and the Omega, what is it you wish to start or finish with me today?
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James Duar
Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.09.10 12:48:00 -
[117]
"Some neuts and nos and boom?"
You have clearly never tried this. I like the solution in the other thread of simply stopping them from jumping when they're on gates with an aggro timer in low-sec. They're not in super danger but they can't teleport the hell out, they need to align and get up to speed and away from the gate.
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Kaldaine
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.09.10 13:39:00 -
[118]
A lot of 0.0 alliances use motherships for logistics, which requires going to lowsec. They also need to enter lowsec for travel around 0.0.
As far as killing a mothership in lowsec:
I would have to be able to form up a gang consisting of a large number of nos/neut ships (said to be 50+ I think) and head to the system. You would also need dps ships however Im going to assume that once the BS kill the cap the ship is disabled and you can kill at your convenience. Somehow these ships have to reach the target system without being scouted by the mothership pilot or his alts. Theres almost a 100% chance he has at least 1 cyno alt within jumprange and scouts in the surrounding systems. At the first sign of danger he will either cyno out or warp to a safespot and cloak. Ive seen it suggested to kill the cyno pilot but the timing on such an op would have to be perfect and the luck involved would have to be extreme. Ive never been on an op that can time things so perfectly so Im going to say its a futile effort.
Anyways, Im going to assume that somehow we are tactical geniuses like Mercenary Services and we pulled a log on trap at his gate and got lucky- for some reason he didnt cyno out immediately. Continuing on with this, we will pretend he doesnt have officer or even faction cap rechargers and only has a couple CR IIs fit for some reason. If he did he would be able to regenerate any cap we might be able to alpha before our nos/neuts finished cycling. Now that we have managed to somehow keep his cap below cyno level we have to keep him on the gate. We could drop cans or suicide frigs into him but thats being patched so we wont do that. Hopefully we have some nano BS that can somehow keep bumping him until our dps shows and we can kill him. Hopefully our neut BS dont run out of cap. That should about cover it.
Now if there are any mothership pilots out there that are that dumb I havent heard of them. The effort required to do this would take a huge amount of work and there would only be one chance. Most of the alliances or top end pvp corps that could accomplish this have much better things to do. 30 billion isnt that hard to get if you have access to empire and decent 0.0 space and I can buy a cap ship ready pilot if I so felt like it. That makes time spent training skills irrelevant and the isk required only slightly less so. Being as this is one of the main arguements for invulnerability, disregarding the fact that a capitol class ship by itself is pretty hard to take down and almost impossible with a decent fleet supporting it, I should be able to buy a 100% invulnerable ship that destroys all ships and pos in system as soon as I jump it in if I spend enough time and isk.
While the ship might not be "invulnerable" it certainly is able to "pvp' while being in absolutely no danger. Most pilots will fit a sensor booster or two to improve lock time and smart bombs to kill anything smaller then a BC. BC and above are easily dispatched with ogre Is. If you pop fighters theres a chance you will leave them behind if you need to cyno out in a hurry. I dont really see why just because you went through the trouble to get a mothership you deserve to be able to camp lowsec gates and smartbomb haulers and cruisers with no risk to yourself. Im pretty sure CCP didnt design the ships with that in mind.
This doesnt really effect me in any way since Ive been in lowsec maybe twice in the last year but the amount of ignorance in here is astounding.
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Dominator9987
Minmatar Save our Souls
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Posted - 2007.09.10 20:20:00 -
[119]
Originally by: Deva Blackfire
Originally by: Dominator9987
Originally by: Deva Blackfire Anyways arguing with s1 who saw mothership only on a screenshot is useless anyways. Go get one, fly with one then you might try to talk.
Been flying with them as support since january, been training for flying them for over a year and 1/2 now. I respect the fact that they are super-capitals and they live up to the name and I also run from them when I see them / don't try to engage a ship that can woop my ass.
I'm not sure why you people complain, the only real conclusion we can draw is that you can't beat them with what you got so you are gonna come on the board and complain til you find them nerfed to the point where you can beat them and then you might be satisfied til something else kicks your ass because your ego finds no limit.
No, conclusion is they are invincible in lowsec because there are no means of stopping em from escaping. This is like having "rock win all" in game of rock-paper-scissor. Setup without any counter breaks up balance leading to other people using said setup. Dont believe me? Then check the lowsec motherships to 0.0 motherships ratio. I can easily tell (even by looking at various killboards) you that this ratio is slowly increasing = more motherships start camping lowsec than engage in 0.0 combat. Why? Because its risk-free.
Yes i can evade em and do this all the time (only time i died to mothership was in 0.0, pre-warp to zero and me w/o bookmarks for area). Still it doesnt mean that mothership pilot can sit in one place "because he payed xx bil isk so he cant die".
As for "neutralize em/bump/whatever" - outbreak tried and failed. Why? Because even while bumped mom pilot can select corresponding celestial object and warp away, even without any cap. And there is ofc. problem of getting initial cap neutralisation, where most mom pilots have cynos ready to jump out as soon as local jumps by 3.
Additionally you still dont see that im not asking for "ikillmothership" module but for ways of holding em in place.
Quote: I'm not sure why you people complain, the only real conclusion we can draw is that you can't beat them with what you got so you are gonna come on the board and complain til you find them nerfed to the point where you can beat them and then you might be satisfied til something else kicks your ass because your ego finds no limit.
Also i wonder another thing - what genius plan can you come up with to kill lowsec mothership? Or maybe you have proper MSN contact and can aks for /kill playername command?
Well I'm not in bob so no /kill command unfortunately, tho it would be nice. In theory all you need to do is convince the mothership pilot that its safe to tank your frontal assault until he burns enough cap that it would be feasable to use a neut / nos specialized gang to come in and screw his cap up enough so that he couldn't run anymore.
The point is that regardless of the fact that they are NOT invincible, they can just run if they are smart, dont burn themselves out and jump away. In that case you win anyways, because the threat ran from you. It might be back another day, but on that day you should have done some recruiting and training of new friends / alliance members so you will be ready.
Oh and thanks for that troll comment, but I'm not trolling. Actually, like most of the other players that have any respect for the high end content (super capitals are pretty high end no matter how much you wanna argue with it) - I am willing to fight your proclamations on this, and I will notify anyone who supports maintaining motherships as they are in this game so that you don't win this argument as you are wrong and you are disappointed in your current inequities in contracts with the other players who worked to get where they are.
Anything else?
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Dominator9987
Minmatar Save our Souls
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Posted - 2007.09.10 20:22:00 -
[120]
Originally by: Deva Blackfire Additionally you still dont see that im not asking for "ikillmothership" module but for ways of holding em in place.
There is a way, Nos / Neuts after making it burn some cap on its own. Easy peasy.
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