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Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2004.02.07 18:43:00 -
[1]
Why does this ship seem to be killed more often than any other?
On paper it looks awesome but in battles lately it's been megathrons which go down first.
What can be done to improve them?
I'd train up to fly Megathrons but don't want to invest the time in a ship that is intrinsically weak despite it's fearsome close-range potential.
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
belzebub1
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Posted - 2004.02.07 18:52:00 -
[2]
Maybe it is due to 2 factors.
1. The sheer amount of players that use them, This then lets ppl outfit there ships specifically to hurt Megas.
2. The amount of time it can take to close on any enemy can be fatal.
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http://www.magmaindex.uni.cc/ |
Teeth
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Posted - 2004.02.07 18:52:00 -
[3]
Just curious, are the ones getting killed long range or short range? If it's the short range one I can understand cause it's so damaging but so dangerous :-/
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Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2004.02.07 18:57:00 -
[4]
The last 2 I took part in shooting down were long range. I have no idea if they had long-range setups or not, though.
To be honest, I refuse to let a megathron get anywhere near me unless I'm tanked out in my Scorpion. Neutron blasters are pure evil under 10km.
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
j0sephine
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Posted - 2004.02.07 18:59:00 -
[5]
"To be honest, I refuse to let a megathron get anywhere near me unless I'm tanked out in my Scorpion. Neutron blasters are pure evil under 10km."
... Could be well the reason why you see them dying so often -- everyone is so scared of them, they get targetted first much like the Scorpions used to be. :s
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Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2004.02.07 19:12:00 -
[6]
Scorpions still get targetted first, trust me 
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
drunkenmaster
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Posted - 2004.02.07 19:18:00 -
[7]
I've had two, and the only thing that could take them from me is the sentry guns.
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Anything
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Posted - 2004.02.07 20:10:00 -
[8]
Even with your slave account following you round and boosting your cap dm? |
drunkenmaster
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Posted - 2004.02.07 20:30:00 -
[9]
 Quote:
Even with your slave account following you round and boosting your cap dm?
If only you knew...
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dalman
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Posted - 2004.02.07 20:55:00 -
[10]
It's very easy...
1. Megathron is the best offensive ship in EVE (maybe a tie with the armageddon)
2. Megathron is the second worst defensive ship in EVE (after armageddon, and maybe tied with Typhoon).
Conclusion: Megathrons and armageddons are primary targets in fights (except for EW ships).
M.I.A. since 2004-07-30 |
Pojo
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Posted - 2004.02.07 21:46:00 -
[11]
I dissagree with you on both points dalman but if you could please explain why you think that mabye I am missing something. In my view any battleship is that doesnt have at least 4 missile launchers is just a stitting duck in combat. Turrets are far to easy to counter with either dampners, ecm or just getting too close or too far for their range. The only way to fight under ew is fofs and drones at this point.
From pvp perspective mega sucks big time, when things go bad in a fight its just flat out screwed. Only a few launchers, tiny drone space and horrid speed.
Mostly I would ignore your comments but you had to bo into the Typhoon and completely miss represent the ship. Typhoon is a very capable damage dealer and one of the best defensive ships around. It may not shield tank worth a crap but its has 4 launchers and drones to get free to fight another day.
In my opinion any ship that cant carry at least 4 missile launchers is asking for an ass kicking. Turrets are fine and all but far to easy to remove from the fight. 
I havent been in many large fleet battles so my views are mostly from 1/1 or 2/2 engagements. Which may explain why our views are different.
"Caldari capacity for good is only exceeded by our capacity for evil"
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Admiral IceBlock
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Posted - 2004.02.07 22:46:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Admiral IceBlock on 07/02/2004 22:49:13
the Megathrons shields die so fast that u cant even blink b4 u think of escaping... im also thinking something is wrong with the megathron, maybe a "setup" failure, maybe its not getting its EM resistance etc
"We brake for nobody"
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Durandal
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Posted - 2004.02.08 00:55:00 -
[13]
Quote:
Scorpions still get targetted first, trust me
They are the first to be locked, not necessarily the first to be targeted! With that size of sig radius you could target it last and still get lock on it first 
"Never let your sense of morals prevent you from doing what is right!"
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drunkenmaster
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Posted - 2004.02.08 00:56:00 -
[14]
Quote:
I dissagree with you on both points dalman but if you could please explain why you think that mabye I am missing something. In my view any battleship is that doesnt have at least 4 missile launchers is just a stitting duck in combat. Turrets are far to easy to counter with either dampners, ecm or just getting too close or too far for their range. The only way to fight under ew is fofs and drones at this point.
From pvp perspective mega sucks big time, when things go bad in a fight its just flat out screwed. Only a few launchers, tiny drone space and horrid speed.
Mostly I would ignore your comments but you had to bo into the Typhoon and completely miss represent the ship. Typhoon is a very capable damage dealer and one of the best defensive ships around. It may not shield tank worth a crap but its has 4 launchers and drones to get free to fight another day.
In my opinion any ship that cant carry at least 4 missile launchers is asking for an ass kicking. Turrets are fine and all but far to easy to remove from the fight.
I havent been in many large fleet battles so my views are mostly from 1/1 or 2/2 engagements. Which may explain why our views are different.
The thing with megas+blasters, (and tempest+800's) is that the winner is decided at the beginning of the fight.
It all depends who starts the fight, and who is in their optimal range.
if you warp in within 20km of a megathron with anything short of a pure tank (or a mega  ) you are gonna be in trouble.
if you warp in >30km from a mega, you will get a few shots in, and then the mega will leave.
The thing with the shields going down so quickly is part of what makes them so nasty to fight. You get half their bar down in 20 seconds, and the other half takes over a minute. People will think they're winning, so they stick around...
And the dronebay is more than capable, unless you have a 15-drone control skill you're not telling us about...
The only thing I would like changed is either better agility, or less cap use for the MWD.*
*well... I'd *like* 16000 PG, and a base speed of 400, but that's totally unlikely
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Pojo
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Posted - 2004.02.08 01:35:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Pojo on 08/02/2004 01:37:42
Even blasters is a setup of chance, if you ecmed they wont do anything. I havent had the displeasure of haiving a blaster mega next to me yet but I would imagine that even my 4 launcher with fof going non stop are gonna do plenty of damage too...
"Caldari capacity for good is only exceeded by our capacity for evil"
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Toulak
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Posted - 2004.02.08 01:54:00 -
[16]
Quote:
2. Megathron is the second worst defensive ship in EVE (after armageddon, and maybe tied with Typhoon).
Typhoons can be tanked to take a hell of a beating.
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Novo DuPont
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Posted - 2004.02.08 02:54:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Novo DuPont on 08/02/2004 02:58:26
Well got to disagree with the Mega sucking part. I have done quite a few one on ones with my Mega and have yet to lose it. In fact missiles are the easiest to counter in the mega. Heck after the tech 2 update i was fighting solo in deep 0.0 space with 12 to 15 cruisers and several BS's shooting cruise missiles at me. My shields would last long enough for me to take out several cruisers (the 1 million bounty Guritas MOA's) and warp out.
I all boils down to knowing what your fighting and trying to setup for it. Unfortunately fighting PvP isnt so easy since unless you got specific info you don't know what they are using. I mostly use 425 mm rails for PvP with FoF cruise for Scorps and Black Birds. The BIGGEST thing to remember is that capacitor energy if the single most important thing to watch in combat. You can not fire guns or use devices without cap energy. The Mega does fine in that area but I still think rail and blaster need lower cap usage still.
The one thing that would greatly help the Megathron, all Gal ships actually, is to slash drone bays by 50% for all non gal ships and make drones more evasive. What I mean by evasive is that drones don't just go straight at the target but they spread out and come in at angles to it so its alot harder for large guns to hit them. Kinda like what most smart frigate pilots do, go at high speed but angle the ship to fly past the target not at it. Also be able to set at what range they will orbit so there is the option of having them stay out of smart bomb range at the cost of having shots do alot less damage.
That or give Gal ships the ability to warp to within 20 km of other ships closer than 150 km from them :)
"To succeed greatly one must sacrifice greatly"
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K'thang
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Posted - 2004.02.08 04:16:00 -
[18]
Quote:
That or give Gal ships the ability to warp to within 20 km of other ships closer than 150 km from them :)
That would be really nice, and nasty  If it's like this that Gallente is supposed to concentrate on close combat and not range then this would be a natural trait.
K.
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2004.02.08 04:55:00 -
[19]
"That would be really nice, and nasty If it's like this that Gallente is supposed to concentrate on close combat and not range then this would be a natural trait."
... Sure; just give then the Caldari the ability to warp ~90 km away from any ship. I mean, they are supposed to concentrate on long range combat so it should be their natural trait as well, non? :s
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Shamis Orzoz
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Posted - 2004.02.08 06:29:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Shamis Orzoz on 08/02/2004 06:30:51
I think megathrons are good ships all around.
If they tend to be the first to go down in big battles it is probably because the pilot had a MWD on to get close to his enemies.
Another reason Megathrons might go down so easily is because they only have 4 medium slots which gives them less shield defense (atleast apoc has cap bonus). The megathron would be a decent candidate for relaying on Large armor repairors and armor resistance to make better use of the low slots.
The Third and final reason why I think these ships might be going down so quickly is because they are such nice mining ships. The drones and turrets attract miners. Who tend to have less PvP experience. Hard core PvP'ers seem to have mostly gone towards Scorps and Tempests.
Shamis
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Ignition
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Posted - 2004.02.08 07:34:00 -
[21]
All I know is Megathrons are very common. Ive killed more of those things then any other BS, and the reason is because they are very very common. Has far has their combat goes, they cant do much to stop a ton of missiles and ecm, so they tend to go down rather fast. Im not saying they totally suck, cause one killed my ship not to long ago .
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KamiCrazy
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Posted - 2004.02.08 07:47:00 -
[22]
Megathron's common? huh? what?
I hardly ever see megathrons in combat. Hell most PvP megathron pilots rarely get taken seriously.
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Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2004.02.08 08:53:00 -
[23]
Megathron is fine.. the problem is hybrids.
They are simply poorly designed weapons.
Blaster range is too short for PvP outside of gate ganking. Railguns are good on Megathrons however, though railguns aren't exactly that good either, compared to other turrets.
4 races 3 weapon types. Just doesn't work out that well.
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ROBBLE ROBBLE |
Jash Illian
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Posted - 2004.02.08 09:43:00 -
[24]
Quote:
4 races 3 weapon types. Just doesn't work out that well.
Working or not, like it or not: Missiles are the 4th weapon type. You can't get around that.
The range on blasters and 800mm are fine. If they got extended much further out, the mid range weapons would become completely useless. Not that they get much play as it is.
The short range guns are the most powerful guns. They're given a handicap of shorter range. It's up to the pilot to work around that handicap.
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2004.02.08 10:20:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Jim Raynor on 08/02/2004 10:37:35
Quote:
Quote:
4 races 3 weapon types. Just doesn't work out that well.
Working or not, like it or not: Missiles are the 4th weapon type. You can't get around that.
The range on blasters and 800mm are fine. If they got extended much further out, the mid range weapons would become completely useless. Not that they get much play as it is.
The short range guns are the most powerful guns. They're given a handicap of shorter range. It's up to the pilot to work around that handicap.
In PvP, long range is king.
Midrange guns (Megabeam, 425mm railgun, 1200mm howitzer) get very little play, the long range turrets tend to dominate them in damage and usability. The more range you have, the better.
In gate ganking, blasters/autocannons are fine, obviously unloading 7 neutron blasters on a webbified ship is going to suck for the person on the business end of it.
If Caldari ships actually recieved missile bonuses, I'd say they would be the fourth type. To me, missiles in general are just support weapons, they have generally low fitting requirements and only the seige launcher uses so much CPU you have to really worry about fitting problems.
Perhaps if CCP would cut missile cost drastically, double missile velocity, and reduce the time it takes to produce missiles, I'd give them the 4th weapon type title.
Anyways to get back on topic, hybrids are the root of the problem.
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ROBBLE ROBBLE |
AnjinSan
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Posted - 2004.02.09 08:41:00 -
[26]
To be a dangerous PvP player in a Megatron you need heavy skills in varies skills. Then I donĘt just mean gunnery skills. But if you have those skills and some one doesnĘt se that you have blasters mounted you will see that a Megatron is a heavy damage deliverer up close.
But my personally opinion is that a Megatron is not a 1 on 1 ship its just one strong component in fleet battles. 
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Kaylon Syi
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Posted - 2004.02.09 10:43:00 -
[27]
Megathron is an awesome ship. I just traded my old faithful in for an apoc and am thinking about going back. To be honest the problem is hybrids. Hybrids still take too much cap for damage dealt so you find yourself in tight situations in combat. Other than that the ship is AOK in my book. I used 1400mm on it and had no problem and you couldn't jame me even with a scorpion ( unless it was fit for gal jamming specifically) and it dealt out nasty damage at good ranges.
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OmegaPsycho
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Posted - 2004.02.09 12:53:00 -
[28]
Quote:
"To be honest, I refuse to let a megathron get anywhere near me unless I'm tanked out in my Scorpion. Neutron blasters are pure evil under 10km."
... Could be well the reason why you see them dying so often -- everyone is so scared of them, they get targetted first much like the Scorpions used to be. :s
yup that would have been my answer
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drunkenmaster
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Posted - 2004.02.09 13:21:00 -
[29]
I lost my megathron the other day, due to inebriation, lack of sleep, and a desire to fight. Another 100M lost to the sentry guns :(
Getting a new one tonight though. Might try the 425's on it, see how they do.
personally, I think it *is* a pvp ship, as long as you are the one starting the fight. If the other guy starts, and you're out of range, then it's a pure running-away ship.
I wouldn't want to take one into a fleet battle though, unless it was dialled in for long range. Up close and personal has no business in the lagfest that is a fleet battle. If it's over 3v3, then I'll take it home, and bring out the scorpion.
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fras
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Posted - 2004.02.09 13:37:00 -
[30]
How come it's seen as less of a fleet battle ship than an Apoc? They seem quite similar in alot of ways if setup with some 425's.
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