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DubanFP Caldari Four Rings D-L	Posted - 2007.08.27 02:02:00 - [1] Edited by: DubanFP on 27/08/2007 02:02:35 CCP is a game that doesn't hold you're hand. Concord only provides consequences not absolute protection. If you were supposed to be 100% safe you wouldn't be able to gank people in high-sec in the first place. EVE online 1) Concord provides consequences not absolute protection 2) If you screw up you actually pay for it. If you die 99.9999% chances are you did something to cause it. Fly with a poorly tanked ship with over 200 mil in loot? Go into low-sec without proper knowledge on what you're doing? Not pay attention to the rules & take from someone else's can? Join a strange gang? It's YOUR fault, not ours, not the pirates, not CCPs 3) The game does not hold your hand. You're responsible for your own losses, and assessing risk vs reward. Keep all your eggs in 1 basket? Ok, but you're accepting the risk, not us or the pirates. 4) You can not just kill a few NPCs and feel sucessful. If you manage to kill, construct, or raid your way to the top it actually means something. You actually have to be "Better" then other REAL people to do "Better". The day one of the above changes is the day I quit This is to prove once and for all that CCP would lose far more players from ruining the game then giving into the whiners. "/sign or /unsign to the part in bold & red" . . . /signed DubanFP P.S. Feel free to foward any "I got ganked, change game to suit my own needs rather then me adapting to your game" whines to this thread so they're no longer able to say the game would be better otherwise. ___________ Xanstin> Your sig is full of really, really crap self quotes. DubanFP> Happy now that i have your quote included?
redialer Minmatar The African Contingency Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2007.08.27 02:04:00 - [2] strive to learn your lessons hard some of you will benefit red1 FREEDOM
DubanFP Caldari Four Rings D-L	Posted - 2007.08.27 02:05:00 - [3] Edited by: DubanFP on 27/08/2007 02:07:03 Originally by: redialer strive to learn your lessons hard some of you will benefit please /sign or /unsign. This is mostly to prove once and for all "undisputedly" that more people play because of these things then despite them. ___________ Xanstin> Your sig is full of really, really crap self quotes. DubanFP> Happy now that i have your quote included?
RtoZ	Posted - 2007.08.27 02:06:00 - [4] If you quit can I have your stuff?
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2007.08.27 02:07:00 - [5] "1) Concord provides consequences not absolute protection" unless the empires get ****ed at concord for not protecting people in time, so they buff them up in0.9 and 1.0 but don't go jumping the boat if this happens, they will NEVER completely protect and keep someone safe, they might just make them use shield transporters or some nonsense in 1.0 space some day or so forth. small ships would still be targets. and as long as there are no lvl 3 or 4 mission in 1.0 space it would work out fine. ----------------------------------- I'm working my way through college target CCP need...more room...
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2007.08.27 02:08:00 - [6] oh wasn't clear:P /signed ----------------------------------- I'm working my way through college target CCP need...more room...
Tamia Clant New Dawn Corp New Eden Research	Posted - 2007.08.27 02:15:00 - [7] Originally by: DubanFP Edited by: DubanFP on 27/08/2007 02:07:03 Originally by: redialer strive to learn your lessons hard some of you will benefit please /sign or /unsign. This is mostly to prove once and for all "undisputedly" that more people play because of these things then despite them. I thought "/signed" posts were labelled as unconstructive? That said, i do agree with your points. Looking for queue-free research slots? Click here!
DubanFP Caldari Four Rings D-L	Posted - 2007.08.27 02:20:00 - [8] Edited by: DubanFP on 27/08/2007 02:21:17 Originally by: Tamia Clant Originally by: DubanFP Edited by: DubanFP on 27/08/2007 02:07:03 Originally by: redialer strive to learn your lessons hard some of you will benefit please /sign or /unsign. This is mostly to prove once and for all "undisputedly" that more people play because of these things then despite them. I thought "/signed" posts were labelled as unconstructive? That said, i do agree with your points. You can add your own comments & agreements. I just want a clearly noticable /signed or /unsigned so a newb can look at a glance without having to look at all the details. And something that's undisputedly for or against my thread. ___________ Xanstin> Your sig is full of really, really crap self quotes. DubanFP> Happy now that i have your quote included?
redialer Minmatar The African Contingency Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2007.08.27 02:27:00 - [9] add sec ratings to your points :) red1 FREEDOM
RtoZ	Posted - 2007.08.27 02:31:00 - [10] Edited by: RtoZ on 27/08/2007 02:31:57 Quote: 4) You can not just kill a few NPCs and feel sucessful. If you manage to kill, construct, or raid your way to the top it actually means something. You actually have to be "Better" then other REAL people to do "Better". Translation: You can just kill a few NPCs and make isk and be richer than me, and I will get ****ed off. If you come and pvp (solo pls) me (and my gang) will gank you and rob you blind. CCP loves me and not you... I just don't know why they never call This thread is pretty useless, the game is pretty clear that nobody undocked is 100% safe, everyone who plays the game for a few days knows it, and to me it just seems like another rabid pvp'er fishing for self validation. Also, there is nothing to /sign onto, you make a statement which is pratically out of the tutorials... This thread is just gonna fade into obscurity, like dozens like it have done before. Please don't make another one like it, be kind on my eyes
Lorissanna Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2007.08.27 02:31:00 - [11] Originally by: DubanFP Edited by: DubanFP on 27/08/2007 02:07:03 please /sign or /unsign. This is mostly to prove once and for all "undisputedly" that more people play because of these things then despite them. No. The forums, as in any game, represent a small portion of the gaming populous. A /sign or /unsigned post is far from indisputable.
Arkios Odymei D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.08.27 02:39:00 - [12] /sign ------------------------------------------------------------------
JonnyWarhawk Oberon Incorporated Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.08.27 02:39:00 - [13] If the game didn't have the death penalties it has and the quality PvP and 0 space that it has it would be quite bad really. I'd quit too. /signed
Imperator Jora'h	Posted - 2007.08.27 02:42:00 - [14] /unsigned You are painting with too broad a brush here. Yes there are those who seem to want Hello Kitty Online in space. Nevertheless there are many legitimate gripes on mechanics that are patently bogus. Here are a few for example: - Remote Repping NPC rats to kill a pilot in hi sec while that pilot has NO ability to engage you (maybe they fixed that one...not sure). - Low Sec Motherships with Officer Smartbombs that cover the gate (due to the ship's size and Officer mod extra range). SBs are specifically not supposed to be able to do that but they do in this case. The Mothership meanwhile is unstoppable. No way to effectively attack it without it getting away. - Some guy can flips your ore into a new can using a shuttle. His ALT/mate then at leisure takes all with a hauler. You get to attack the shuttle. - Insurance payouts to suicide gankers. The only argument I have seen for keeping this is to not penalize someone who makes a mistake in Empire and loses their ship (despite there being a warning to stop you from making that mistake). Doubtless there are other examples. And you may agree or disagree with any or all of the above items. The point is they are legitimate complaints. They are not suggesting a freebie. Ore thieves can still do their thing, suicide gankers could still do their thing, gate camping Motherships could still do their thing and so on. But it would balance out a bit of the risk versus reward. Bottom line is you cannot lump all complaints into, "Shutup carebear! Adapt or die!"
DubanFP Caldari Four Rings D-L	Posted - 2007.08.27 02:52:00 - [15] Edited by: DubanFP on 27/08/2007 02:56:05 Originally by: Imperator Jora'h /unsigned - Remote Repping NPC rats to kill a pilot in hi sec while that pilot has NO ability to engage you (maybe they fixed that one...not sure). I'm pretty sure they did fix this one - Low Sec Motherships with Officer Smartbombs that cover the gate (due to the ship's size and Officer mod extra range). SBs are specifically not supposed to be able to do that but they do in this case. The Mothership meanwhile is unstoppable. No way to effectively attack it without it getting away. There are room for changes "like the difficulty of killing a MS", but you should still be able to avoid these if you know what you're doing. - Some guy can flips your ore into a new can using a shuttle. His ALT/mate then at leisure takes all with a hauler. You get to attack the shuttle. Jetcan mining was never intended. It's a creative use that's come into it's own. But essentually when you drop a can you're throwing the stuff out, of course people can take it. Hell there was a time when you didn't even have agression timers. The change was more intended for cans from NPC kills then jetcan mining anyways. Really jetcan mining is the walkaround here not the thieves. - Insurance payouts to suicide gankers. The only argument I have seen for keeping this is to not penalize someone who makes a mistake in Empire and loses their ship (despite there being a warning to stop you from making that mistake). This actually isn't nearly as profitable as people make it sound really. Most of the good stuff goes PoP. Anyways don't go around with 200mil or more stuff afk in an untanked ship and it's not a problem. This one above all your other thing IS YOUR FAULT if it happens. There are legitiment complaints & need for balancing here and there. But if the thread can even remotely fall into one of the 4 categories in the main thread it's their fault more then anything else. Anyways, at least thank you for expressing your opinion in a flame-free way. Even if i disagree with them. ___________ Xanstin> Your sig is full of really, really crap self quotes. DubanFP> Happy now that i have your quote included?
Captian Internet	Posted - 2007.08.27 02:57:00 - [16] If that is true how come npc corp characters can hide from direct pvp but still influence market pvp?
Dred'Pirate Jesus Amarr Ministry of War	Posted - 2007.08.27 03:14:00 - [17] Originally by: DubanFP Edited by: DubanFP on 27/08/2007 02:22:41 CCP made a game that doesn't hold you're hand. Concord only provides consequences not absolute protection. If you were supposed to be 100% safe you wouldn't be able to gank people in high-sec in the first place. EVE online 1) Concord provides consequences not absolute protection 2) If you screw up you actually pay for it. If you die 99.9999% chances are you did something to cause it. Fly with a poorly tanked ship with over 200 mil in loot? Go into low-sec without proper knowledge on what you're doing? Not pay attention to the rules & take from someone else's can? Join a strange gang? It's YOUR fault, not ours, not the pirates, not CCPs 3) The game does not hold your hand. You're responsible for your own losses, and assessing risk vs reward. Keep all your eggs in 1 basket? Ok, but you're accepting the risk, not us or the pirates. 4) You can not just kill a few NPCs and feel sucessful. If you manage to kill, construct, or raid your way to the top it actually means something. You actually have to be "Better" then other REAL people to do "Better". The day one of the above changes is the day I quit This is to prove once and for all that CCP would lose far more players from ruining the game and giving into the whiners. Please /sign or /unsign so we have a clear unarguable yes/no or agree/disagree in addition to your comments. . . . /signed DubanFP P.S. Feel free to foward any "I got ganked, change game to suit my own needs rather then me adapting to your game" whines to this thread so they're no longer able to say the game would be better otherwise. Oh and thank you CCP not being afraid of making a game where sucess actually means something. Quite frankly the 99.8% of the active playerbase who never visit the forums have no issues with Eve or settle them with a petition.. They go about thier business having a grand ole time in this wonderful place CCP made for us.. Its just the 0.2% of "The Few and The Proud" forum warriors who make a fuss here about whatever they feel arsed about by starting a thread to get their daily attention *** quotient.. /signed /unsigned whatever.. It doesn't really matter cause nothing thats not a sticky by a CCP employee on the forums doesn't have any value past the fleeting entertainment we get from reading them.. Except of course for the vanishingly rare insightful thread that appears every few months or so.. And even those usually get trolled to death in short order by the metagamers.. Originally by:** David Hackworth ò If you find yourself in a fair fight, you didn't plan your mission properly.
Roemy Schneider BINFORD	Posted - 2007.08.27 03:16:00 - [18] really should rename "system security" - putting the gist back into logistics
Imperator Jora'h	Posted - 2007.08.27 03:26:00 - [19] Originally by: DubanFP Anyways, at least thank you for expressing your opinion in a flame-free way. Even if i disagree with them. FYI I'd love to respond to your answers to my post but this is not the thread to get into all that (besides they have mostly been done to death anyway). I just think people need to evaluate threads a bit better. There was one in Ships and Modules where the OP was clearly being sarcastic and many totally missed it and flamed away as if the person was being serious. Some complaints are just whines. Some threads are clearly self-serving. Some are honest attempts at a change but poorly thought out (and some few are shockingly stupid even though you can tell the person somehow really thought it was a great idea). Some are honest attempts and well thought out. Even if you disagree with whatever the point is I think it serves EVE better if people draw these distinctions a bit better.
Tarminic Black Flame Industries	Posted - 2007.08.27 04:19:00 - [20] /signed Even as a carebear I have a very deep appreciation for EVE's nature. If it changes, I'll have to find another way to spend my time. ------------ Whiners - Unite! \| Posting and You Tarminic - Forum Warfare Specialist.
Pilok Shitfly Minmatar Soliders Of Eve The Makhai	Posted - 2007.08.27 04:27:00 - [21] Originally by: Dred'Pirate Jesus Quite frankly the 99.8% of the active playerbase who never visit the forums have no issues with Eve or settle them with a petition.. They go about thier business having a grand ole time in this wonderful place CCP made for us.. Its just the 0.2% of "The Few and The Proud" forum warriors who make a fuss here about whatever they feel arsed about by starting a thread to get their daily attention ***** quotient.. What he said
Awox Advanced Logistics	Posted - 2007.08.27 05:02:00 - [22] Originally by: DubanFP 4) You can not just kill a few NPCs and feel sucessful. If you manage to kill, construct, or raid your way to the top it actually means something. You actually have to be "Better" then other REAL people to do "Better". Say DubanFP, where did you get that 4.7 sec status from? Judging by your killboard activity (pve fit raven losses especially) I would say you are just a carebear poser.
Sheriff Jones Amarr Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United Cult of War	Posted - 2007.08.27 05:07:00 - [23] Can't really sign it, since it's not really taking everything into consideration and taking a bit of a one sided approach. I'll say this though, EVE can be Hello Kitty Online if you want it to be. You never have to fight, if you don't want to, and use your brain in going about your business. So yeah, i have a problem with being serious, but it's the almost smallest problem i have.
Tarminic Black Flame Industries	Posted - 2007.08.27 05:15:00 - [24] Originally by: Awox Originally by: DubanFP 4) You can not just kill a few NPCs and feel sucessful. If you manage to kill, construct, or raid your way to the top it actually means something. You actually have to be "Better" then other REAL people to do "Better". Say DubanFP, where did you get that 4.7 sec status from? Judging by your killboard activity (pve fit raven losses especially) I would say you are just a carebear poser. It's not like he's waving his e-peen about, honestly. Even if he is a carebear, even if he did lose his mission Raven, it doesn't mean that you can't appreciate EVE's nature. At least you posted with your main. ------------ Whiners - Unite! \| Posting and You Tarminic - Forum Warfare Specialist.
An Anarchyyt Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2007.08.27 05:19:00 - [25] Originally by: Tarminic It's not like he's waving his e-peen about, honestly. Even if he is a carebear, even if he did lose his mission Raven, it doesn't mean that you can't appreciate EVE's nature. At least you posted with your main. waves ePeen in the shape of a State Raven Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
K'reemy G'udness Delicious	Posted - 2007.08.27 05:23:00 - [26] /unsigned I agree with you in spirit, but I think there are flaws in the mechanics that need to be addressed as well. It really doesn't makes sense that 2 chars at war should be allowed in the same gang, for example. Sincerely, K'reemy --- Uh oh...
Danton Marcellus Nebula Rasa Holdings	Posted - 2007.08.27 05:28:00 - [27] I'd like to see some changes to how gangs work frankly. Being in an alliance gang and still not being able to intervene in conflict across corporations is pretty daft. No I don't care for a second about some noob being suckered into a gang, that happens once. Also Known As
Death Kill Caldari direkte	Posted - 2007.08.27 05:30:00 - [28] Originally by: DubanFP please /sign or /unsign. Listen tool, if you have a thread where people post nothing but /signed then the mods will lock the thread for lack of constructive posting. Caldari and proud
Tarminic Black Flame Industries	Posted - 2007.08.27 06:08:00 - [29] Originally by: An Anarchyyt Originally by: Tarminic It's not like he's waving his e-peen about, honestly. Even if he is a carebear, even if he did lose his mission Raven, it doesn't mean that you can't appreciate EVE's nature. At least you posted with your main. waves ePeen in the shape of a State Raven I can't imagine that being populat with the ladies. ------------ Whiners - Unite! \| Posting and You Tarminic - Forum Warfare Specialist.
Zoi Opia Challenger Logistics Corporation APEX Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.08.27 06:27:00 - [30] It was all fine until this part: Originally by: DubanFP 4) You can not just kill a few NPCs and feel sucessful. If you manage to kill, construct, or raid your way to the top it actually means something. You actually have to be "Better" then other REAL people to do "Better". Who are you to say what people can or cannot do to feel successful? What some people do might not feel important to you, but it doesn't mean that they haven't achieved anything, or that the things they do are without a meaning. Sorry (not really), but I cannot sign this.
Tesal	Posted - 2007.08.27 07:02:00 - [31] The more dangerous you make transportation of goods, the more difficult, and as a result, expensive, you make the manufacturing process. The gate campers never see the irony in the situation, that they will be killing people with guns and ships built by, or transported by, the people they are killing. If you break AFK hauling by industrials and freighters in empire, EvE breaks. AFK hauling is essential, without it, the EvE economy won't work. Whine all you want about the "carebears". There needs to be a place for industrialists and traders. And yes, Concord should kill the gankers and empire gate campers, if they don't, no freighter or industrial will be able to turn a profit over the long run. These ships can't be tanked like a combat ship. Thats one of the big problems facing Empire trade right now, it is increasingly unsafe to the point where some routes aren't worth flying. I think that is why you see trade die in those areas and why you can't buy a hull at a good price in a convenient location. I think it has swung too far to pvp in empire. the other day I saw freight containers in 3 separate systems near Hek. Around Uedama, I had to get an Occator, I wouldn't want to risk the rigs on my Iteron V for what I haul. I have been attacked with zero cargo, nothing. A guy in my Corp got taken out for 70M in minor BPO. The PVP in empire has gotten excessive.
VicturusTeSaluto	Posted - 2007.08.27 07:05:00 - [32] /sign If you want full immunity then go play a damned single player game.
Kastar Memphis Technologies	Posted - 2007.08.27 07:11:00 - [33] neither /signed nor /unsigned. One of both would be an unsuitable answer, only generated for the e-peen of the OP. Eve is whatever the player wants it to be in the setting CCP provides. FFS, stop whining about the people that whine and go have a good time. Let them care for the bear and shoot all the ones you can. That's about it. Now quit posting or give me your stuff. -----------------------------------------------
SirMoric	Posted - 2007.08.27 09:18:00 - [34] What? Sign what??
Lazuran Gallente Time And ISK Sink Corporation	Posted - 2007.08.27 09:37:00 - [35] What a stupid post, full of incoherent babbling in bad English. "The whole of NYC is not 1.0. Some back alley in the Bronx is deep 0.0, while right outside NYPD headquarters is 1.0." -- Slaaght Bana
Lex Sebastion Caldari Copperhead Arsenal	Posted - 2007.08.27 09:47:00 - [36] I think, far to many people spend far to much time worrying about if its "carebear this" or "pirate that." Its EVE-ONLINE. a game, developed to play in the style you wish how you wish when you wish where you wish. Play the game. Play it how you like, when you like where you like and in what style you like and stop crying about others doing the very same. that is how I take CCP's intentions of EVE-Online. Carry On. Gunnery Sergeant Caldari Marine Corp Copperhead Arsenal NCOIC Personnel
Banana Torres The Green Banana Corporation	Posted - 2007.08.27 09:49:00 - [37] Don't make me laff, of course this is Carebear Online. If it wasn't my alliance would not have been nerfed to oblivion. As for your ePeen waving, I agree with 1,2,3 but 4 is bull****. Eve is a sandbox, you define your own winning criteria, if your winning criteria is to have a faction fitted CNR then you can do this by killing a few NPCs.
AuroraStar RennTech SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.27 09:55:00 - [38] Face it, youll quit for a couple weeks and come crawling back, tail between your legs. Oh yeah kudos on the Ill quit threat, thats sure gonna make CCP not change any off that stuff....
CharTest2	Posted - 2007.08.27 09:57:00 - [39] <random alt agreeing with what i said ^^ >
Leandro Salazar The Blackguard Wolves Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2007.08.27 10:04:00 - [40] Quote: 4) You can not just kill a few NPCs and feel sucessful. If you manage to kill, construct, or raid your way to the top it actually means something. You actually have to be "Better" then other REAL people to do "Better". Oh you can. Especially you can feel successful by killing NPCs much faster than other real people do and thus beat them without causing direct misery. And end up with the space-equivalent of a Ferrari to fly missions with. That is killing and constructing my way to the top indeed, just without leaving someone else suffering for it. Not that I don't enjoy popping pirates, so they are a very important part of EVE. But it is NOT all about direct PvP combat. And not everyone enjoys spoiling some innocent guy's day to make his own. (I do greatly enjoy spoiling the days of those who enjoy spoiling innocent people's days though.) Fix speedtanks, base hit chance on agility!
Miki Fin Gallente Independant Union of Rangers	Posted - 2007.08.27 10:05:00 - [41] Why is it always people in alliances that whine the most?
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2007.08.27 10:25:00 - [42] As I am stealing some of Imperator Jora'h words, but not quoting him verbatim, a token of appreciation. /unsigned You are painting with too broad a brush here. Yes there are those who seem to want Hello Kitty Online in space. But the number seem equally divided between those that want to get free life without any danger from other players and those that want free ganking without any danger from other players. For some example of the second specie of carebears, look the thread about removing gate guns in low sec and adding bubbles and all the whines about the too hard penality on security status, as for killing some player they can't enter high sec and that is unjust and so on. In EVE action should have consequences. If I choose to afk haul in high sec I know I can loose my ship and cargo and take my precautions. I weight the advantage of going AFK against the risk of losing the cargo and if the risk is low enough I do it. If I am moving something really valuable I use a BS or an interceptor never leaving the keyboard. But the people killing my industrial outside a war in high sec should lose the ship and get the security hit. Crying that the security hit is too hard is simply wanting Pirate Hello Kitty. So point 1-2-3 are generally valid, as long as you apply them to both side of the equation. Imperator Jora'h has done a good list of Pirate Hello Kitty option, option that a lot of "hard PvPers" try to defend with tooth and claw on the forum. Point 4 is totally out of order. EVE has not a top tier (and if it has one it is based on isk). It is a sandbox game. I cold feel perfectly succesfull never killing any player, but besting them with my building and market capabilityes.
Ethaet Gallente	Posted - 2007.08.27 10:59:00 - [43] /unsign for one thing: getting concorded should not make your insurance pay out! You should get no insurance at all. ----- CONCORD Notice: Don't drink and fly. Drunken jumping can result in loss of ship through "navigational error". Seems familiar?
Laah T'Sin	Posted - 2007.08.27 11:05:00 - [44] Edited by: Laah T''Sin on 27/08/2007 11:05:38 hehe i think the list of facts in the first post should appear as a popup during character creation with a big "accept" button underneath. i basically love EVE for those reasons so i think i'm a /signed
DubanFP Caldari Four Rings D-L	Posted - 2007.08.27 12:25:00 - [45] Edited by: DubanFP on 27/08/2007 12:35:11 Originally by: Awox Originally by: DubanFP 4) You can not just kill a few NPCs and feel sucessful. If you manage to kill, construct, or raid your way to the top it actually means something. You actually have to be "Better" then other REAL people to do "Better". Say DubanFP, where did you get that 4.7 sec status from? Judging by your killboard activity (pve fit raven losses especially) I would say you are just a carebear poser. 1) You don't lose sec-status for your actions in 0.0 which is where you'll usually find me. 2) For a month or two prior to Querious I've been saving up for something "special", hence no normal kills. Now that we're busy with Fix i'm usually stuck shooting PoSes and sitting next to sniper BSes as they get all the "fun". Almost regret not having more fun, but it was worth it in the end. The battle has been going on for a long time. Things really slowed down & I sat around a lot for a while there. 3) Where did I ever say I PVP a lot? Honestly I haven't had a lot of time for it lately. If I did PVP as much as I'd like to lately you'd be whining that I'm only saying this because i'm a "griefer" myself. If anything that just makes my point more valid because it proves I'm not saying this for my own benifit. 4) Hmm anyways I guess I didn't make enough room for legitiment complaints & it came back to bite me in the ass in this thread. Anyways at least most people ___________ Xanstin> Your sig is full of really, really crap self quotes. DubanFP> Happy now that i have your quote included?
Aphroditi	Posted - 2007.08.27 13:02:00 - [46] /signed DubanFP keep the good work mate. CCP : bring the servers back to 2003 :) No Concord or Sentries and Cruisers were HUGE investment. Too much inflation brought problems.
wamingo Amarr	Posted - 2007.08.27 17:47:00 - [47] This game can provide, by far, the single greatest adrenaline rush that you'll legally find in this altitude. Fail and it'll become your job away from work. Succeed and you can claim an epeen the size of a house! In this game you can create things greater than anything you'll ever achieve in your real life. In it you can lose things more valuable than anything you've ever owned. With a few clicks of a mouse, without ever having to move your arse from your chair you can conquer great lands, bring prosperity, and affect more people than you ever otherwise would. And how do you achieve this? By bringing out the absolute worst humanity has ever produced... Greed, lies, fraud, destruction, arrogance, pain, misery, murder, persecution and dispair and many other evils you're all far too cowardice to ever experience in your precious real life, all forming under a single banner - vanity. You are better than all of us. Because only then could you achieve the ultimate goal... Fornication... This game favours the arsholes. This game is made for arsholes. And the arsholes don't want it to change. Suprise, suprise. But I like it! Though the reason I like it not what it used to be. I used to like the potential more than the game itself. The concept, the idea, that the game could be actually -- fun. Heh. Today I like it because there are precious few ways to enjoy masses of arsholes beat eachother up... -- I won't not promise to avoid refraining from harming you! .... What?
Aceoil Murder-Death-Kill	Posted - 2007.08.27 17:55:00 - [48] /signed
d026 THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.08.27 18:01:00 - [49] i don't really care.. where i play mainly there is nothing like concord anyway.. buff them remove them doesn't matter :)
Lorissanna Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2007.08.27 19:09:00 - [50] Edited by: Lorissanna on 27/08/2007 19:09:57 EDIT: Yes I know what the cartoon Carebears are. I've seen the term carebear used in every mmo I have ever played. Now I am curious as to what everyones definition of the term is. Is it just someone that does not want to PvP? Is it someone that seems to think that PvP should not exist? I am genuinely curious about this.
DubanFP Caldari Four Rings D-L	Posted - 2007.08.27 19:23:00 - [51] Originally by: Lorissanna Edited by: Lorissanna on 27/08/2007 19:09:57 EDIT: Yes I know what the cartoon Carebears are. I've seen the term carebear used in every mmo I have ever played. Now I am curious as to what everyones definition of the term is. Is it just someone that does not want to PvP? Is it someone that seems to think that unconsentual PvP should not exist? It can be either of the above depending on the context. The first one being "ok" to be, but the second use is pretty much an insult. Also made a minor change to the second one. ___________ Xanstin> Your sig is full of really, really crap self quotes. DubanFP> Happy now that i have your quote included?
Tesal	Posted - 2007.08.28 23:05:00 - [52] Quote: If you want full immunity then go play a damned single player game. Never said I wanted full immunity. You are aware that Concord is partially broken aren't you? You can be attacked, and Concord does not always show up. Risk and reward is the key. Industrials and freighters were designed to be weak and vulnerable, thats part of the game. But risk management is also part of the game. If you are able to take the time to limit risk, you are expected to take steps to protect your cargo, but you should have the tools to do it in a way that doesn't take huge amounts of manpower, like it currently does. Tools for reporting camps are in need, and map tools that help you plan routes based on those reports. Perhaps new autopilot skills, perhaps an advanced evasive maneuvering skill. That would be very useful for convoy and fleet planning as well. We need logistical map resources anyway. And when a ship is attacked, perhaps a "Mayday module" for broadcasting the location, and an automatic gang invitation for people in range, so alliance or corp forces can rapidly know where to respond. We could make the reponse timer cumulative, with 5 additional minutes for every attacker, so you have enough time to gather a practical response force. EvE is almost entirely without defensive response systems. It makes counterattacking almost impossible unless they are on top of your home base, and puts defenders at a severe disadvantage. We also should have better warning systems. Having your entire screen blink yellow as an option as a way to know you have been targetted as an option, so you notice aggro more easily or an alarm you can configure on your computer for sound, "warning, you are being targetted" or "warning, you are being scanned". Scanner sensors to trigger an alarm when you warp near a cargo scanner in use and a jammer in an industrial high slot to stop the scanner or slow it down. Why not ECCM for industrials, if they can scan, why can't we jam? Giving people tools to plan, and tools to know what is going on and the tools to react are what is needed.
Tesal	Posted - 2007.08.28 23:32:00 - [53] Quote: If you want full immunity then go play a damned single player game. Never said I wanted full immunity. You are aware that Concord is partially broken aren't you? You can be attacked, and Concord does not always show up. Risk and reward is the key. Industrials and freighters were designed to be weak and vulnerable, thats part of the game. But risk management is also part of the game. If you are able to take the time to limit risk, you are expected to take steps to protect your cargo, but you should have the tools to do it in a way that doesn't take huge amounts of manpower, like it currently does. Tools for reporting camps are in need, and map tools that help you plan routes based on those reports. Perhaps new autopilot skills, perhaps an advanced evasive maneuvering skill. That would be very useful for convoy and fleet planning as well. We need logistical map resources anyway. And when a ship is attacked, perhaps a "Mayday module" for broadcasting the location, and an automatic gang invitation for people in range, so alliance or corp forces can rapidly know where to respond. We could make the reponse timer cumulative, with 5 additional minutes for every attacker, so you have enough time to gather a practical response force. EvE is almost entirely without defensive response systems. It makes counterattacking almost impossible unless they are on top of your home base, and puts defenders at a severe disadvantage. We also should have better warning systems. Having your entire screen blink yellow as an option as a way to know you have been targetted as an option, so you notice aggro more easily or an alarm you can configure on your computer for sound, "warning, you are being targetted" or "warning, you are being scanned". Scanner sensors to trigger an alarm when you warp near a cargo scanner in use and a jammer in an industrial high slot to stop the scanner or slow it down. Why not ECCM for industrials, if they can scan, why can't we jam? Giving people tools to plan, and tools to know what is going on and the tools to react are what is needed.
Del Narveux Dukes of Hazard	Posted - 2007.08.29 04:54:00 - [54] No offense but does this thread serve a purpose? Cause all I see is blah blah blah wall of text about the vast carebear conspiracy thats keepin the pirate down, etc. _________________ [SAK] Alumnus--And Proud Of It! -- aka Cpt Bogus Is that my torped sig cloaking your base? Originally by: Wrangler Well, at least we have forum PvP..
Nanobotter Mk2	Posted - 2007.08.29 08:54:00 - [55] Quote: EVE online 1) Concord provides consequences not absolute protection 2) If you screw up you actually pay for it. If you die 99.9999% chances are you did something to cause it. Fly with a poorly tanked ship with over 200 mil in loot? Go into low-sec without proper knowledge on what you're doing? Not pay attention to the rules & take from someone else's can? Join a strange gang? It's YOUR fault, not ours, not the pirates, not CCPs 3) The game does not hold your hand. You're responsible for your own losses, and assessing risk vs reward. Keep all your eggs in 1 basket? Ok, but you're accepting the risk, not us or the pirates. 4) You can not just kill a few NPCs and feel sucessful. If you manage to kill, construct, or raid your way to the top it actually means something. You actually have to be "Better" then other REAL people to do "Better". The day one of the above changes is the day I quit This is to prove once and for all that CCP would lose far more players from ruining the game and giving into the whiners. Please /sign or /unsign so we have a clear unarguable yes/no or agree/disagree in addition to your comments. . . . /signed DubanFP LOLZ EVE online is most definitely carebears online, you just need to know the loopholes to acheive carebear status. I mean sitting in cheap insured ships which are on alts in NPC corps to suicide gank to make big money = extreme carebear make over. You will never get ganked as you sit around ovbious to everyone you are a suicide ganker camping xxx gate. when you decide to suicide even if somehow you screw up your loss in extremely small aka carebears in space! Faction/sec rating is meaningless you get your cake and eat it hello carebear pirates online! It is uber easy to fix, and if you are too lazy to fix it you can just have alts or friends supply you up and do everything else you might need. Spawn camping errr opps in eve we call it gate camping need I say more most every and any other pvp game has long banished this completely chicken arse carebear pvp exploit EVE promotes it LOLZ! Lastly getting to the top is meaningless it takes ZERO skill, just the tried and true play your life away to get to the top with a healthy heap of exploit FTW! Most wealthy or powerful people in this game got it by taking advantage of the myriad of bugs like bugged complex spawns, broken T2 market monopolies, market scams, broken mission spawns and who knows how many other exploits CCP fixes and creates with each patch.... but when in doubt suck a nut on the biggest alliance and bam YOU WIN, hide out deep in your 0.0 territory and carebear it up in 100% safety! Heck if that isnt enough you could always just be mr flavor of the mouth overpowered module humper to fool yourself into beliving you are good at pvp, that is when you are not buisy blobing people 20 on 2 and such thinking you roxors da house in dis mad harcore pvp game RAWR! If all the above fails just pretend eve is really dark, hardcore, and unforgiving and you are some uber mad leet gamer with insanes skills a rare breed indeed being one of few who can handle such a raw risky and dangerous game!
Nanobotter Mk2	Posted - 2007.08.29 08:58:00 - [56] Quote: /sign If you want full immunity then go play a damned single player game. funny that is what suicide gankers get right now, and whine like crazy to defend everytime somone makes a post suggesting that the immunity be taken away and some balanced risks be added, but na you go girl being all hardcore in your t1 insured cruiser safely and riskfree camping gates waiting for a noob to transport goods in a defenseless hauler! RAWR you bad ass balls to the wall risk taking pvp hero!
SiJira	Posted - 2007.08.29 09:02:00 - [57] sure its carebear online heck we cant even enjoy cloaking gameplay because some carebears out there are too dumb to get at least one single ship to defend them while they do their defenseless activities 1 full pvp fit ship vs 1 cloaker = 1 dead cloaker soon as he uncloaks but these kids cant handle having a cloaker afk on them all day ____ __ ________ _sig below_ devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried! _lies above_ CCP Morpheus was here Morpheus Fails. You need colors!! -Kaemonn [yellow]Kaem
framolia The Fated Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.08.29 09:13:00 - [58] /unsigned People play this game how they want to play it! DubanFP, I suggest you wind yer neck in!
Ethaet Gallente	Posted - 2007.08.29 09:34:00 - [59] Originally by: Lorissanna Edited by: Lorissanna on 27/08/2007 19:09:57 EDIT: Yes I know what the cartoon Carebears are. I've seen the term carebear used in every mmo I have ever played. Now I am curious as to what everyones definition of the term is. Is it just someone that does not want to PvP? Is it someone that seems to think that PvP should not exist? I am genuinely curious about this. Well, most players in eve are 1. there are a few who are 2, but they are mainly ex-WoW players, the same people who say 'z0mfG W3 need ship crews!111oneone11' ----- CONCORD Notice: Don't drink and fly. Drunken jumping can result in loss of ship through "navigational error". Seems familiar?
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2007.08.29 10:06:00 - [60] Originally by: DubanFP Originally by: Lorissanna Edited by: Lorissanna on 27/08/2007 19:09:57 EDIT: Yes I know what the cartoon Carebears are. I've seen the term carebear used in every mmo I have ever played. Now I am curious as to what everyones definition of the term is. Is it just someone that does not want to PvP? Is it someone that seems to think that unconsentual PvP should not exist? It can be either of the above depending on the context. The first one being "ok" to be, but the second use is pretty much an insult. Also made a minor change to the second one. You will find it used ofthen enough for people that want to change the system for their interest PvPers or not. Exampes are gankers wanting to use bubbles in every security level or asking that warp stabber disable any offensive system on a ship, industrialists asking for total immunity when moving items in high sec or suicide gankers asking for the removing of warp to 0 so they can gank freighters in high se with 100% success and so on (on both side of the PvP fence).
Tyson Gallane Caldari Political Warfare Executive	Posted - 2007.08.29 10:35:00 - [61] I have to say I cannot remember DubanFP posting anything less than a considered and measured post - and I agree with these points on principle (though I'm a little shaky on 4 TBH). All the hating seems a little unwarranted, chaps. Anyway. /signed The wee bit of frisson when you undock with a valuable cargo, or an expensive ship, is what makes this a game and not a spreadsheet with a nice GUI. Its this that makes it a multiplayer game to me. If I jetcan mine and I feel threatened by eebil chaps in shuttles I'll call upon my corpmates to haul the stuff quicksmart. In the rare event that I have an expensive cargo, and (god help me) I decide I want to take it to Jita, I'll pester my corp mates to provide an escort. Even totally mundane tasks become fun when you make a team effort out of it. Thats why the game rokhs! When a corp-mate of mine needs assistance, I'll drop everything and go help. Why else am I even here, if not for the teamwork? If the in-game reality is such that you cannot solo-AFK it, it's not the game that is at fault. My 0.2 anyway. Fly safe. TG.
Natassja Johannessen Gallente Throne of Tragedy	Posted - 2007.08.29 10:37:00 - [62] /unsigned Funny, it's not PVP-Online either... If only the communtity could open their minds about the dynamics of this game to match that of the devs grand vision for the EVE universe it would do so much more for this game. The whole "EVE is PVP or get out" is so dated now too lol. The game is EVE-olving and the community really needs to catch on their definition of this game...remember, we shape the world within this sandbox that we live. Begs the question. Do you want to see this game to become something truly dynamic and amazing unlike anything else out there(which it will be)and continue for many many years to come or... become just a "spaced theme" strategy / shooter which ppl will eventually get bored of and leave. PVP and PVE are the ying and yang of eve and there isn't one without the other.
MaxSkywalker x13	Posted - 2007.08.29 10:52:00 - [63] / signed EVE is a PVP game.. Regards MaxSkywalker *x13*
Phal	Posted - 2007.08.29 11:19:00 - [64] I only pve in Eve in .5 and above as I am not really into pvp combat. I don't understand what I would be signing to be honest. I don't mind running through low sec if i have something to do, but I know the risks. Eve, as a pve game and pvp game split into .5 and above and .4 and below, is fabulous and I enjoy playing a lot. Something for everyone, just how a good game shoud be
DubanFP Caldari Four Rings D-L	Posted - 2007.08.29 12:29:00 - [65] Edited by: DubanFP on 29/08/2007 12:30:29 Originally I was content to let this thread die, but it keeps getting bumped up. Most of the problems stemmed from a misinterpretation of 4) "Completely my fault". I think the thread can still be salvaged, so i looked back and replaced 4) with the new 5). ___________ Desolacer> Who the heck gives YOU the right to ruin it for others buy blowing them up. Zaqar> CCP
Selene Fenestre Corpus PCG The State	Posted - 2007.08.29 12:39:00 - [66] Originally by: Natassja Johannessen /unsigned Funny, it's not PVP-Online either... If only the communtity could open their minds about the dynamics of this game to match that of the devs grand vision for the EVE universe it would do so much more for this game. The whole "EVE is PVP or get out" is so dated now too lol. The game is EVE-olving and the community really needs to catch on their definition of this game...remember, we shape the world within this sandbox that we live. Begs the question. Do you want to see this game to become something truly dynamic and amazing unlike anything else out there(which it will be)and continue for many many years to come or... become just a "spaced theme" strategy / shooter which ppl will eventually get bored of and leave. PVP and PVE are the ying and yang of eve and there isn't one without the other. QFT. Don't get me wrong, its fantastic that Eve is harsh and grim, but its a sandbox game, theres a place for everyone.
MITSUK0	Posted - 2007.08.29 12:46:00 - [67] Originally by: Selene Fenestre Originally by: Natassja Johannessen /unsigned Funny, it's not PVP-Online either... If only the communtity could open their minds about the dynamics of this game to match that of the devs grand vision for the EVE universe it would do so much more for this game. The whole "EVE is PVP or get out" is so dated now too lol. The game is EVE-olving and the community really needs to catch on their definition of this game...remember, we shape the world within this sandbox that we live. Begs the question. Do you want to see this game to become something truly dynamic and amazing unlike anything else out there(which it will be)and continue for many many years to come or... become just a "spaced theme" strategy / shooter which ppl will eventually get bored of and leave. PVP and PVE are the ying and yang of eve and there isn't one without the other. QFT. Don't get me wrong, its fantastic that Eve is harsh and grim, but its a sandbox game, theres a place for everyone. TBH I dont think killing some AI rats repeatedly for hours on end has anything to do with sandbox gameplay. Sandbox gameplay to me is interacting and building things with other players, be it empires or ships or a fearsome pirate reputation. We got given the tools to create our own gameplay and storyline. If eve is a sandbox then mission runners are the kids sat on there own building a sandcastle, then knocking it down and starting over. All the other kids are busy building lots of sandcastles and trying to kick down the ones the other kids built.
Bistot Kid The First Thing You'll Ever See	Posted - 2007.08.29 13:15:00 - [68] /unsigned, because you're so boring. --------------------------------- Dyslexics of the World Untie! ---------------------------------
DubanFP Caldari Four Rings D-L	Posted - 2007.08.29 13:20:00 - [69] Edited by: DubanFP on 29/08/2007 13:27:56 Originally by: Selene Fenestre Originally by: Natassja Johannessen /unsigned Funny, it's not PVP-Online either... If only the communtity could open their minds about the dynamics of this game to match that of the devs grand vision for the EVE universe it would do so much more for this game. The whole "EVE is PVP or get out" is so dated now too lol. The game is EVE-olving and the community really needs to catch on their definition of this game...remember, we shape the world within this sandbox that we live. Begs the question. Do you want to see this game to become something truly dynamic and amazing unlike anything else out there(which it will be)and continue for many many years to come or... become just a "spaced theme" strategy / shooter which ppl will eventually get bored of and leave. PVP and PVE are the ying and yang of eve and there isn't one without the other. QFT. Don't get me wrong, its fantastic that Eve is harsh and grim, but its a sandbox game, theres a place for everyone. I never said that any 1 person has to PVP. I'm just saying that removing unconsentual PVP "even from high-sec" is stupid, and against what this game stands for. Also even industry counted toward my old 4) since you're competing to sell your goods. Even that would be competing to be "Better" then the next guy. ___________ Desolacer> Who the heck gives YOU the right to ruin it for others buy blowing them up. Zaqar> CCP
Lorissanna Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2007.08.29 20:31:00 - [70] Quote: 1) Concord provides consequences not absolute protection. If you were meant to be 100% safe from your mistakes in high-sec "see 2)" then you would be 100% safe. As it should be. Kind of lends a tad more realism, yes? Quote: 2) If you screw up you actually pay for it. If you die 99.9999% chances are you did something to cause it. Fly with a poorly tanked ship with over 200 mil in loot? Go into low-sec without proper knowledge on what you're doing? Not pay attention to the rules & take from someone else's can? Join a strange gang? It's YOUR fault, not ours, not the pirates, not CCPs Agreed Quote: 3) The game does not hold your hand. You're responsible for your own losses, and assessing risk vs reward. Keep all your eggs in 1 basket? Ok, but you're accepting the risk, not us or the pirates. Again, agreed. Quote: 5) Yes there is room for legitimate complaints here & there, but most of them don't conflict with the 3 "rules" above. Even so as it stands most of the legitimate complaints can be at least avoided "though not necessarily destroyed" for now. If you use your mind, you'd be surprised what you can escape. Also agreed. That being said, yes I am a care-bear. I do not PvP and for one reason. It literally makes me physically ill if I do so, and I don't like feeling ill. It seems to me that this is all echoed in the game's documentation and text.
cuteboylookingatyou	Posted - 2007.08.29 21:55:00 - [71] Even bad pvp is good for industry. The safer everything is even for those who do not take precautions the less death there is and the less industry there is. Some carebears are blind to the fact that every death fuels their fat wallets. Their own death might be because of ammo they sold.
Minmatar096773	Posted - 2007.08.30 10:42:00 - [72] Amarr are all caresbears.

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