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trouser boy
The Eve Pacification Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.08.27 11:50:00 -
[1]
Edited by: trouser boy on 27/08/2007 11:50:41
Dampening essentially operates in the same way as the old ECM system with subtle differences.
I don't mean the chance based system I mean the system of exceeding an enemies sensor strength until they were permanently disabled. There are advantages and a disadvantage to the way damps work in comparison:
Advantages:
a) One dampener still has an effect, one of the old ECM modules did absolutely nothing
b) You only have to fit one type of dampener, not 4 different types for each of the races.
c) Dual effect from dampeners
Disadvantages:
a) Your target is never completely disabled although a 60 second locktime and 10km or less locking range is basically disabled.
So 2 years after CCP got rid of the old ECM system because it was a bit shoddy we basically have the same thing today with a different name and better advantages.
Joy |
Ishina Fel
Caldari
Synergy.
Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2007.08.27 12:30:00 -
[2]
It takes a while of whining until anything is changed, because they're busy with other things (such as other whines about other topics, and checking if they're valid).
So keep lobbying... Sensor dampeners really are too strong.
I'm eagerly waiting for the alliance tournament, to see how many people will opt to field ECM ships, and how many people will stick with dampeners. Of course I havre my personal opinion on that choice, but I want to see how the "elite" thinks.
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Sir Scorpion
Black Banners
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Posted - 2007.08.27 13:04:00 -
[3]
i hope this gets changed fast, since in all fairness it needs to be aligned with ECM, CCP already has the cookie cutter that was used for ECM, which might work on sensor boosters with some modifications.
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Aramendel
Amarr
Coreli Corporation
Exuro Mortis
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Posted - 2007.08.27 13:13:00 -
[4]
Don't hold your breath. The ECM imbalance was far worse than the current damp imbalance and it took..what..2 years for ECM to be balanced?
But, yes, damps are too strong atm. ECM is fine. TDs are not effective enough considering their limitation. And minnie recons need a "real" EW bonus (although they are by far not bad right now due to longrang webs beign a very powerful advantage).
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Ishina Fel
Caldari
Synergy.
Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2007.08.27 13:36:00 -
[5]
Target Painters are not so bad per se - their disadvantage is the quite poor range on them, compared to other kinds of EW.
If you could paint up stuff with 150km optimal, then it would be a different issue - they'd be the perfect sniping support EW.
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trouser boy
The Eve Pacification Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.08.27 14:20:00 -
[6]
Edited by: trouser boy on 27/08/2007 14:20:51
I tend to agree that painters could use some kind of imaginitive change. Thing is the Rapier and Huginn are insanely useful already. Gotta be careful not to turn them into something incredibly good.
I like the fact that painters are a module that benefits the gang more than the ship itself.
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Max Hardcase
Art of War
Cult of War
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Posted - 2007.08.27 15:07:00 -
[7]
^^
I've debated for a new minnie EW type that interferes with the targets hardening thus lowering resists on the target ship.
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Phrixus Zephyr
D00M.
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.08.27 15:12:00 -
[8]
Anyone claiming damps were as bad as ECM, clearly wasn't around for it.
Rabblerabble -Sahwoolo |
Laechyd Eldgorn
Caldari
Glauxian Brothers
Ground Zeero
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Posted - 2007.08.27 15:34:00 -
[9]
It's funny that in many cases it's just better to fit damps in ship with ECM bonus.
in my opinion
ECM = fine as it is
dampening = make it chance based, but (maybe) with a better chance than ECM since it only reduces targeting range. Dampening has other advantages though.
target painting = Limit it so that only 1-2 painters are really effective on one target with some kind of "to hit" chance. So you can't make interceptor look like a titan.
NOS/NEUTS = should really be similar to turrets so you don't hit every time the fast moving interceptor. (dunno how exactly the new patch is affecting that though yet)
I just hate automatic successes. :p d20 for the win.
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William DeMeo
Gallente
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2007.08.27 15:42:00 -
[10]
OMG, a dampening nerf thread! UNEXPECTED!
Yarr |
trouser boy
The Eve Pacification Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.08.27 15:59:00 -
[11]
 Originally by: Phrixus Zephyr
Anyone claiming damps were as bad as ECM, clearly wasn't around for it.
Erm, you put enough jammers on one ship until it was permanently jammed, only way to lose the jam was to warp out. Pretty much what dampeners do except with a few major advantages.
Unless of course you think I mean the RMR ECM module on every ship with a spare midslot system. I don't, I mean the original jamming system.
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Aramendel
Amarr
Coreli Corporation
Exuro Mortis
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Posted - 2007.08.27 16:27:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Ishina Fel
Target Painters are not so bad per se - their disadvantage is the quite poor range on them, compared to other kinds of EW.
If you could paint up stuff with 150km optimal, then it would be a different issue - they'd be the perfect sniping support EW.
You can actually. 2 t1 EW range rigs and maxed EW range skills and you have a 50% chance per painter to work at 150k. Or per damp - they have the same range stats.
In either case, painters themselves are no bad module, no. They just do not make much sense on a recon. It would be like if the amarr recons had a bonus for tracking enhancers, not tracking disruptors.
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Xion Dsurion
Gallente
The Bloody Red
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Posted - 2007.08.27 16:32:00 -
[13]
At least per ship dampening only affects 1 other ship (maybe you can get 2 out of a arazu or lachesis, but those specialize in it as it is) where as ecm shut down multiple ships permanently (and with a rook, still does) Sensor damps may be a problem, but still nowhere near how ecm use to be imho.
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Malcanis
High4Life
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Posted - 2007.08.27 16:43:00 -
[14]
So make the damps work the same way as racial ECMs. It makes sense, after all; why are all damps "multispectral"?
With the racial damps, leave the strengths as they are for the sensor type they target; other sensor types only get 1/3 of the current penalty
With the multispec damps, reduce the strength to about 50-60% of its current value.
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |
MrTripps
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.08.27 19:11:00 -
[15]
There is nothing wrong with damps. They already have two counters: sensor booster (which is very common in pvp) and distance. Not to mention the ships that spec in them are paper thin.
And there isn't a real comparison to the pre-nerf ECM. That was crazy. I used to fly with an ECM on a nos-domi. I miss it, but it was stupidly overpowered.
Certainty of death...small chance of success...what are we waiting for? - Gimli |
Ay'Not Sivad
Minmatar
D-L
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Posted - 2007.08.27 20:14:00 -
[16]
i fully support anything that balances out dampeners, they're ungodly powerful. a smaller ship using dampeners(cough, recons) makes most battleships take in excess of 50 second to lock it, and you have to be under 20km, without a chance base and they work from extreme ranges. wtf crippling ships without a ship with bonuses to damps(cough, nano curse) is completely in need of a balance. ships ultimately being invincible in a 1v1(curse pilots have thier speed, so anything dangerous starts to lock them and they can easily get out of there.
out of all the e-war that needs to be balanced, the dampeners win every time in my eyes. such a silly module ccp, non chance based, no-lock modules that have no drawbacks and use very little capacitor.
I SELL SIGNATURES! PLEASE EVE-MAIL ME FOR MORE INFO! |
Ishina Fel
Caldari
Synergy.
Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2007.08.27 20:19:00 -
[17]
Sensor boosetrs are not a counter to dampeners, because dampeners overwrite boosters.
for example:
100% range +1 booster = 160% range
160% range hit with one serious dampener = 60% range (estimated)
So where exactly does the sensor booster "counter" the dampener? It'll give you a small number of kilometers more to work with, that's all. Two sensor dampeners vs. two boosters, and you pretty much see nothing remaining from the boosters.
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Ay'Not Sivad
Minmatar
D-L
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Posted - 2007.08.27 21:49:00 -
[18]
they're surely not a counter, but they DO help somewhat.
I SELL SIGNATURES! PLEASE EVE-MAIL ME FOR MORE INFO! |
Phrixus Zephyr
D00M.
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.08.27 22:36:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Ishina Fel
Sensor boosetrs are not a counter to dampeners, because dampeners overwrite boosters.
for example:
100% range +1 booster = 160% range
160% range hit with one serious dampener = 60% range (estimated)
So where exactly does the sensor booster "counter" the dampener? It'll give you a small number of kilometers more to work with, that's all. Two sensor dampeners vs. two boosters, and you pretty much see nothing remaining from the boosters.
ECCM modules don't counter ECM 100% of the time either. So whats your point?
Rabblerabble -Sahwoolo |
trouser boy
The Eve Pacification Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.08.28 14:12:00 -
[20]
Still some of you think I'm referring to the old 'chance based fit 4 multispecs on your Dominix' system. I'm not, I'm referring to the original ECM system that was in place 3 years ago.
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