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Debaser
Invisible Speculum
7
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Posted - 2012.01.16 17:14:00 -
[1] - Quote
I know this may sound nutty to many players, but it would be very nice to be able to purposefully "forget" a skill.
The value of this comes in helping to "refocus" a character.
Currently, in the Character Bazaar, if you have a, say, 45M SP character focused on Minmatar PVP, but that character has injected and trained any Industry skills, the value drops to below that of an identical character without those Industry skills.
There is a certain aesthetic element to having pure focus in an area. This is especially true for filthy role players :)
I don't mean swapping the SP for other skills, but simply choosing to lose them by "forgetting" a certain skill book.
If this stresses the system somehow (caching of pre-computed skill matrices?) it could be minimized to being a part of the remap process.
This would help tremendously in buying, tuning, and reselling characters, and would keep immersion stronger for role players who want something very specific and can only find character that are close to their criteria. |
Goose99
677
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Posted - 2012.01.16 18:02:00 -
[2] - Quote
Supported. There are some skills with crap benefits and ridiculous drawbacks. AB, for example. Lengthens cycle time, so that you can't turn it off when you want to, with no additional "benefit." Also prerequisite for the important skills... |
Nestara Aldent
EVE University
Ivy League
29
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Posted - 2012.01.16 18:30:00 -
[3] - Quote
Goose99 wrote:Supported. There are some skills with crap benefits and ridiculous drawbacks. AB, for example. Lengthens cycle time, so that you can't turn it off when you want to, with no additional "benefit." Also prerequisite for the important skills...
Because the AB cycle lasts longer, cap usage over time is lower.
But anyway why not, just mess with your chars to make them worse and make eveboard look nice. |
Akrasjel Lanate
Naquatech Conglomerate
508
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Posted - 2012.01.16 19:15:00 -
[4] - Quote
No, thanks.
Debaser wrote:
There is a certain aesthetic element to having pure focus in an area. This is especially true for filthy role players :)
What ?
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King Rothgar
Autocannons Anonymous
143
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Posted - 2012.01.16 19:19:00 -
[5] - Quote
I wish AB/MWD's could be clicked on and off at will like cloaks. Obviously cap usage would be per second rather than lumped at the start of a cycle. As for removing skills, why? Why would a character with industry 2 be worth less than one without it? Seems rather silly, especially since all older toons are going to have such skills. I never trained an industrial skill on this toon and yet I have mining lvl3 I think. That's just how characters were created back in 2007. |
Ai Shun
134
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Posted - 2012.01.16 20:19:00 -
[6] - Quote
Debaser wrote:Currently, in the Character Bazaar, if you have a, say, 45M SP character focused on Minmatar PVP, but that character has injected and trained any Industry skills, the value drops to below that of an identical character without those Industry skills.
There is a certain aesthetic element to having pure focus in an area.
I can see the aesthetic element to it. However, won't this devalue pure characters in the Character Bazaar? The person that carefully planned and built a character will have their effort and investment reduced as anyone with surplus skills can just replicate it a couple of years down the track.
I'm not sure I like the idea of that type of market manipulation, even if outside of the game itself.
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Debaser
Invisible Speculum
8
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Posted - 2012.01.16 21:59:00 -
[7] - Quote
Ai Shun - it isn't market manipulation, as it's simply creating the product by giving up time invested. I don't think that preserving the specific training clarity of a single player matters from a market perspective. If you buy a jumbled 90M SP toon and pare it down to a focused (with all prerequisites still met) 25M SP toon, you will still likely lose ISK... Being able to toss out that errant Gallente frigate 3 skill for a hardcore Amarr player/purist/RP doesn't affect anything in the market as-is. This is just about being able to *destructively* remove skills.
You could have someone blow up a bunch of Tengus you're flying to reset all your Subsystems skills... not that you would... but the ability to choose to forget things seems like a nice, liberating feature. I think it could be a real boon for the market in general - just like the ability to change names would be...
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Ai Shun
134
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Posted - 2012.01.16 22:05:00 -
[8] - Quote
Debaser wrote:Ai Shun - it isn't market manipulation, as it's simply creating the product by giving up time invested. I don't think that preserving the specific training clarity of a single player matters from a market perspective.
I hear what you are saying there. But imagine a scenario where:
Pilot A: Clearly focussed Industrial with no other skills to offset this. Worth 1B ISK.
Pilot B: Mixed character, with same Industrial skills. Worth 750m ISK.
As per your original post:
Debaser wrote:Currently, in the Character Bazaar, if you have a, say, 45M SP character focused on Minmatar PVP, but that character has injected and trained any Industry skills, the value drops to below that of an identical character without those Industry skills.
Thus you are attaching a value to having a clear character. With the ability to "forget" skills, Pilot B can increase the value of his character to 1B ISK. Or, alternatively, the value of Pilot A's character drops to 750m ISK.
It is, in essence, devaluing a character that has been well focussed and thought out.
While I can see the value, this type of things make me feel uncomfortable personally.
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Debaser
Invisible Speculum
8
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Posted - 2012.01.16 23:11:00 -
[9] - Quote
You are right, but for the wrong reasons :)
It just adds another method for people to craft a great toon. If it devalues anything, it is the value created by "perfect" training. That value is a side effect, though, rather than innately valuable. In other words, when I have purchased a toon, I no longer care about the special clarity of the person who created it, but rather about the innate value of the character. It opens the market to competition, turnover, and improvements via recycling. I get that it devalues historical perfection, but nobody really cares about the order of operations or historical details of training itself - only about the end product.
Given that the owner gives up one of the most precious currencies in game (SP) it would be a hard pill to swallow. In fact, it would be easier to pop the bubble of "yes it's perfect but omg it can mine and even though I am only paying for PVP skills and the others are free they are there and omg omg omg it burns!!!" through marketing or creating a competitor to eveboard.
I think the market side effects would be small, positive or neutral, and avoidable. But the narrative possibilities expand.
That's all I will say about it. Just a idea. |
Ai Shun
134
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Posted - 2012.01.17 06:06:00 -
[10] - Quote
Debaser wrote:I get that it devalues historical perfection, but nobody really cares about the order of operations or historical details of training itself - only about the end product.
Except for the person that crafted that perfect character. Your idea will cost them. However, you make a good point with the hard pill. I agree, it will be painful to lose skillpoints. I look at this character, and my skills are a mess. I wouldn't give any of them up though 
Goose99 wrote:Supported. There are some skills with crap benefits and ridiculous drawbacks. AB, for example. Lengthens cycle time, so that you can't turn it off when you want to, with no additional "benefit." Also prerequisite for the important skills...
Would you be able to "forget" a pre-requisite skill? Your post makes it seem as if that is the idea, but surely that would not be right?
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Debaser
Invisible Speculum
10
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Posted - 2012.01.17 13:00:00 -
[11] - Quote
No sorry if the post above referencing prerequisites was unclear. If you decided to "forget" gunnery, for example,m you would lose all dependent skills. That would be a nice shortcut, in fact, for clearing out faction knowledge for RP purposes. |
Jint Hikaru
OffWorld Exploration Inc
46
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Posted - 2012.01.17 16:15:00 -
[12] - Quote
So, let me get this clear, you want to take up developer resources to make a change to the game that will only serve to increase the petition queue with "waaa i deleted half my skills by accident" whines....
And the reason you want all this is ---> So my character is worth more on the character bazzar.....
Waste of time.
Jint Hikaru - Miner / Salvager / Explorer / SpaceBum
In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. |
Nestara Aldent
EVE University
Ivy League
39
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Posted - 2012.01.17 16:18:00 -
[13] - Quote
Debaser wrote:No sorry if the post above referencing prerequisites was unclear. If you decided to "forget" gunnery, for example,m you would lose all dependent skills. That would be a nice shortcut, in fact, for clearing out faction knowledge for RP purposes.
Do you really think people who RP would do that?
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Giribaldi
Criminal Intentions
Ash's to Ash's
1
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Posted - 2012.01.17 16:34:00 -
[14] - Quote
this would be 2 op for older players where as its time 2 fly my titan ok bloop all skils gone relating 2 sub cap skills ok titan 5 and all relating skills for titan 2 5 ok time 2 fly sub caps ok boom all skills back 2 normal...
no thanks |
Danika Princip
Freelance Economics Astrological resources
Tactical Narcotics Team
151
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Posted - 2012.01.17 19:26:00 -
[15] - Quote
Giribaldi wrote:this would be 2 op for older players where as its time 2 fly my titan ok bloop all skils gone relating 2 sub cap skills ok titan 5 and all relating skills for titan 2 5 ok time 2 fly sub caps ok boom all skills back 2 normal...
no thanks
Please train 'posting' to V before you reply to anything else.
@OP: No. EVE is a game of consequences. Deal with it.
Also, why do we need a mechanic to counter a metagame behaviour? Players being weird about buying alts is an attitude, not something CCP can fix. |
Mag's
the united
Negative Ten.
5169
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Posted - 2012.01.17 19:46:00 -
[16] - Quote
The only skills I would agree with allowing players to remove, are ones we were born with. In my case mining and industry at level 1. 
CCP Zulu.....
Forcing players to dock at the captain's quarters is a form of what we actually wanted to get through, which is making Incarna a seamless part of the EVE Online experience. |
muhadin
the united
Negative Ten.
25
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Posted - 2012.01.17 20:07:00 -
[17] - Quote
I support this, as i have a medical condition Obsessive Compulsive Disorder. I accidentally injected a skillbook i didn't mean to, and i even petitioned to ccp about it, there were 0 skill points in it and they wouldn't even remove it for me.
The one disadvantage of this would be, creating characters is an art, and a 50-60mil pure single race character with alot of specs and ship skills to 5, is a nice character, being able to fly quite a few ships from one race at 100% effectiveness, is worth more to me then being about to fly 4 races 95-97% effectiveness. And perfect characters like this, may be devalued. Which some value pure single race characters pretty well.
I would never buy a character if it was exactly what i was looking for, in a majority of skills, if it had hulks, or even just regular mining barges trained.
Its a stupid thought, that in such a futuristic game, that a little memory loss isn't possible.
My first character i created in 2005, i sold in 2008 once i had enough cash to put what i got from it together to buy a nice character with exactly what i wanted. Because the character was terribly trained, multiple races, mining, industry, production, science skills, plenty of level 5s in every type of section, and it was just terrible. If this option was possible back then, i would've wiped the skills i didn't want. |
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