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Jordan Musgrat
Convergent Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.08.30 22:48:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Jordan Musgrat on 30/08/2007 22:50:20 Hello. This is partly related to the fight in BKG, but since Saturday will see a battle likely to be almost as big, I'd like an official response as to what CCP will do about absolutely, undeniable horrible server performance.
First off, GMs apparently try to look at each petition as separate from all others... This is fine in that they don't allow input from other players to inhibit their decisions, but it is akin to having an engine blow out, take it apart piece by piece, and give all of the parts to different mechanics, without telling that any of them anything about the engine as a whole.
What you should do, is to reimburse every petition in that system from the time one side started jumping in till the end of the fight. It is your fault, you admitted it by switching to a different node, and also you could have capped the node at 500 or something reasonable.
Basically, lag is getting better yes, but I am getting very tired of GMs that tell me that it's my system/ISP's fault simply because
1) They don't care, or don't have time 2) They are ignorant of what actually happened (this is probably the case)
My system is fine, believe you me, I have spent much money trying to make it to where client performance will not have a factor in EvE. In return, I ask that you simply take responsibility for your work, whether it is good or not. I'll probably get ignored, but if you've made it this far, the game, as a whole, is amazing, and lag IS getting better. I thank you for this. Thanks for your time.
Jordan -----------
Primary is family values, secondary is 0.0... |
Jordan Musgrat
Convergent Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.08.31 23:01:00 -
[2]
Yes I would like an answer. -----------
Primary is family values, secondary is 0.0... |
Osmodious
System-Lords Exquisite Malevolence
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Posted - 2007.09.01 00:52:00 -
[3]
Some sort of reimbursement policy rewriting would be very nice, as it was likely written back when there were no more than 10k people. The situation has changed, and as such so should the rules.
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Gord Ackfordham
Fenscore Enterprises United Corporations Against Macros
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Posted - 2007.09.01 03:39:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Jordan Musgrat Yes I would like an answer.
We're sorry, our logs show nothing. --- cheers, gordo |
Mannington Skank
Gallente Allied Secret Service Operations
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Posted - 2007.09.01 09:12:00 -
[5]
Ive never gotten a petition response other than "Logs show nothing."
Which was a funny response to a petition filled from UEJ in Deklein space during Sparta/TRI fight. 400 plus in local. Both sides lagging to bad to even target most of the time, and poof... server goes down... I log back in to a pod in station. No idea what happened so I petition it. Got the "nothing in logs" reply. Later I died, and found out that when I updated my clone the server hadnt registered it (desynch).... lost SP. Guess what the reply was on that petition as well?
I msg'd back on the petition "WTF? The whole server went down, and you're saying you didnt even notice??"
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Love Ya
Caldari Generals Of Destruction Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.09.01 10:09:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Love Ya on 01/09/2007 10:10:05
Originally by: Mannington Skank Ive never gotten a petition response other than "Logs show nothing."
Well this is what 99% gets from the Macro GM script .. the other 1%... well i leave this to your imagination.
And the best of all is they want as to rate there work by filling a survey how well they did ... LOL up to now i had 3 petitions 2 with this chr 1 with my other they always get a BIG 0.
And i will continiue doing so untill the day they will employ REAL GM personal and NOT running there "Logs show Nothing"..script
Yes CCP you have abandon trying to help your player base long time a go..
You may say why i am here still and pay for this game ... well cause of the friends i made when EVE was players game and CCP cared about the problems there player base had ...
In the past i had countless times (real)GMs after a petition to appear in local for only to check if all was ok now you will be lucky to have your petition answered (well by script most of the times but hey.)
CCP like i wrote to you and i say now in public .. Your customer support and your petition handling skill is still in LvL 1 and is only a rank 1 ..
Sorry to ramble and highjack your thread ... please forgive me. I need a new sig Whitesnake |
Jordan Musgrat
Convergent Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.09.02 05:00:00 -
[7]
Look, this is me trying to get an official stance on petitions. ATM there are many many many valid petitions that are denied. This problem can only be solved by changing something, and telling the GMs to be nice doesn't count. So will there be changes or can I expect more of the same? Do you even care? -----------
Primary is family values, secondary is 0.0... |
Telis Guevera
Minmatar 7th Regimental Combat Team Fallen Souls
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Posted - 2007.09.02 10:44:00 -
[8]
Well, I got the same Bot-reply after the V7- crash and the death involved, uploaded screens that show my ship in space minutes after I got the killmail .... people from both sides did so, no clue if they got any different reply.
I then forced an escalation to a Senior Bot *err* GM, but this has just been 4 weeks ago so no reply yet, even after BKG *AND* a Dev Blog that states there is de-sync.
And even with a slighty sub-optimal system there should not be a total failure to load anybody in system. If graphics is overwhelmed it will simply kill the FPS, no more.
So yes, please, official statement on petition policy requested aka *topic signed*
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Shinori
Minmatar GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.09.02 15:45:00 -
[9]
I wish CCP would under no circumstances give reimbursements in 0.0
Set a clear policy so people don't get their hopes up and get let down by some uncompassionate response, that only frustrates us even more.
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Jordan Musgrat
Convergent Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.09.03 00:07:00 -
[10]
Of course, today I find the ultimate example of desynch/lag. This is what happened.
I am outside a pos repping guns, hostile BS warp in, I mwd back inside the shields, while inside shields, I apparently pop, get the km, insurance, see my wreck, but I stay in my Dominix mwding away. At first I think this is a normal desynch, but everyone around me can see the same thing..... So ofc the hostiles try to catch my domi and board it, but it is unlockable haha, if only that happened more....
In the end, I get ganged, but nobody can board my Domi. So we say, that's fine, I'll relog..... I do so, and the Dominix is still sustaining the MWD (all CPR/cap rechargers fitted) away from the pos, it must be 5,000km away by now, but showing on grid.
Best of all? My SP is now 0. That's right, my SP desynched. Devs please fix desynch, it is getting worse by the day.
Oh, if you don't believe me, then here. -----------
Primary is family values, secondary is 0.0... |
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Pyros
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Posted - 2007.09.03 04:18:00 -
[11]
Here the 'answer' I received after spending hours downloading and reinstalling...
Thank you for your bugreport - ID:XXXXX Title: Connection Lost The problem you have described was non-reproducible. If you are still having the problem you described, could you please file another bugreport with an improved set of reproduction steps. Please review this thread for further information on submitting bugreports. Your bugreport has been closed.
The BugHunter Team
Report ID: XXXXX Title: Connection Lost
Description: Uninstalled, deleted old files and completely reinstalled the game but I keep losing connection every 1-5 minutes.
Reproduction Steps:
1 file(s) attached to this report.
Anyone know what is 'an improved set of reproduction steps'???
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Jordan Musgrat
Convergent Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.09.03 08:09:00 -
[12]
While I'm at it, how is the progress going on that program that runs 400 clients and reproduces fleet battles? Haven't heard much about it....
To give them reproducible steps, uninstall EvE, delete all EvE folders you can see, then run error checking (right click your C: drive, tools, error checking), then defrag your HD, then reinstall, make sure you include your system specs in the bug report. -----------
Primary is family values, secondary is 0.0... |
Jordan Musgrat
Convergent Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.09.05 04:09:00 -
[13]
I still would not mind an official answer. -----------
Primary is family values, secondary is 0.0... |
Longword
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Posted - 2007.09.05 11:48:00 -
[14]
Please add my name to the petition for an official policy statement on this matter.
What level of evidence do we have to come up with?
If the server logs show nothing, should we file a petition against the failure of the server logs which cause our ship loss through reimbursement petition rejection?
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Godlesswanderer
Gallente Hells Angels Inc.
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Posted - 2007.09.05 12:44:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Godlesswanderer on 05/09/2007 12:44:55 I've gotten exactly the same response.
"Our logs show nothing" "Maybe an ISP connection problem" "No evidence of server problems" And so on...
GMs keep giving me the same answer despite the fact that I've told them that my connection has been working perfectly, I've cleared the cache and I run next to no other programs while running EVE. In fact, I just got an reply to my petition that had exactly the same information as the previous message the GM sent me but worded slightly differently. Despite the fact that I've already told this particular GM that it is not a problem with me.
If we're going to get this sorted out we need to stop being told by GMs that there isn't a problem with EVE when CCP themselves have said that they are trying to find out what is wrong. We should, at the very least, stop being told that it is a problem with us and start being told that they are unsure of what is causing the problem. ---------------------------
Custom made EVE graphics |
jamesw
Omniscient Order Cruel Intentions
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Posted - 2007.09.05 13:53:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Jordan Musgrat What you should do, is to reimburse every petition in that system from the time one side started jumping in till the end of the fight.
No offense, but that seems like a pretty silly idea. If every ship that was petitioned in a fleet fight was reimbursed.... then..... wouldn't that make fleet fights totally pointless?
--
Latest Vid: Domination! |
Nlewis
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.09.05 15:00:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Nlewis on 05/09/2007 15:01:09 if they replace one persons ship then they should replace everyones because that is bull****.
or they should have never reimbursed anyone to begin with
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Jordan Musgrat
Convergent Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.09.05 23:48:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Jordan Musgrat on 05/09/2007 23:53:13 Yes James. The thing is, they don't usually drop a node on purpose, and they did this time. They switched nodes, so whoever logged in first won. That's not pvp.
This is the dilemma though. If they are too lenient in reimbursement, fleet battles start to have no consequence, because with 200+ you will always have large amounts of lag, and lag kills you more than anything else. I try to not complain about this, but this forum is about the only place there is to do it.
CCP cannot provide lagless, even playable large fleet battles, though the game mechanics encourage this. I want to know what they think about that? The devs apparently see this, they admit to it, but the GMs largely ignore the lag factor when looking at petitions, in fact, they only look at server errors. I guess clicking the dock button and waiting for 5 minutes doesn't count. -----------
Primary is family values, secondary is 0.0... |
Longword
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Posted - 2007.09.06 09:29:00 -
[19]
Originally by: jamesw No offense, but that seems like a pretty silly idea. If every ship that was petitioned in a fleet fight was reimbursed.... then..... wouldn't that make fleet fights totally pointless?
I agree with you there, but if you show up for a fight in your best battleship only to find the server denies you the opportunity to participate in that fight, what other fair option is there for that pilot?
Unless and until CCP can sort out the underlying problems here and ensure pilots are allowed to defend themselves in combat, petitions for reimbursement must be honoured IMHO.
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Strom Kryos
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.09.06 12:43:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Strom Kryos on 06/09/2007 12:43:09 Yeah I just want the chance to issue even 1 command to the client I've dealt with lag before on 250-450 player battles and can handle the slow response.. but when I click warp with the fleet and 2 mins after seeing the warping to x for 2 mins and then all of sudden come out of warp and within 3 seconds seeing what had transpired on ts 30 seconds ago.. where everyone had warped out.. still can not issue any response to the game no right click.. and then see this.. for 20 mins http://sio.midco.net/JOBOO/blah/lag.bmp I can play the game with lag but at least let be get 1 shot for the 200+mil ship I dont get to replace and the 8 mil clone that didnt get to even try and warp away cause I never got to see the egg at all.
There was under 200 players in the system so I think its flat out unacceptable .. Reload eve same issue even with no firewall, no av running, no pc issues, comes up clean on various scans, no other network traffic, {ping times good, once I hit London avg 115 up to the server still should be ok), and pc recently formatted and running fine with everything else.
Ive tried the performance tweaks and if anyone has any ideas on what we as players can do thats not already in the forums Id love to know what to tell my isp/amd/ms what they need to fix so I can pvp in eve with more than 50 man engagement, being the issue according to generic responses this is their issue.
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Love Ya
Caldari Generals Of Destruction Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.09.06 17:27:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Strom Kryos http://sio.midco.net/JOBOO/blah/lag.bmp
Sorry mate they cannot see this in the logs .. so this never took place AND your picure is a fake to THEM and you are a LIAR...
But i hope you will take back your ship i relly do only dont put your hopes to high.
CCP when you going to train your Customer Support skill passed lvl 1 ? I need a new sig Whitesnake |
Godlesswanderer
Gallente Hells Angels Inc.
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Posted - 2007.09.07 06:54:00 -
[22]
I've just been told that even though they know that this is a problem with EVE, they need to have proof in their logs that something has gone wrong. The thing about this problem is that it seems that it doesn't create an error in their logs. So they aren't allowed to give you your ship. It's pretty f'd up that they can't reimburse ships even though it's a problem with EVE, but as GMs they have to abide by the rules they've been given. It's the rules at fault here, not the GMs. ---------------------------
Custom made EVE graphics |
Strom Kryos
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.09.07 12:54:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Strom Kryos on 07/09/2007 12:57:40 The actual issue is they look at their server logs.. and those look fine.. and show we just sit somewhere for mins after we warp doing nothing. Also telling us that the most likely cause is due to net traffic which includes.. isp-backbone-worldnet-their backbone-isp. The issue I have with that reasoning is why can I recreate the same issue everytime on my end and the traffic seems at worst fair.. if eve tv is running off the same server I have no problem seeing streaming video.. which also makes me think it is not an isp net traffic issue.
Id also think that they could see the lack of response if it was a traffic issue .. and wonder.. why would anyone go afk right when they warp to a fleet battle.. not even bother to turn on any mods offense or defense, I know the logs for sure show that. For my issue Ive gone to my wifes pc removed old version of eve and installed a full dl and tweaked it, guess I'll see where that takes me.
Also have my router to check.. but all other inet games/surfing ect is fine so doubt thats an issue. Last thing I can think of short of waiting for parts for new pc.. is finding other servers that run in that area and test multiple dls to confirm its not in isp issue.
If anyone knows any other sites/games ect that run off the same isp in that area it'd be appreciated.
Also something that may be helpful to find out.. exactly how much traffic does a 50+150+300+450 battle use?
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Alz Shado
Ever Flow FREGE Alliance
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Posted - 2007.09.07 14:26:00 -
[24]
cut, paste, find/replace: BKG with MJ-
/signed
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Metaller
Ocean Dynamics Dark Matter Coalition
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Posted - 2007.09.07 21:07:00 -
[25]
well
i would like to know who decides at ccp when a node gets reinforced. I mean deciding it in the middle of the battle is just crap.
Referring to forum posts and primary encounters in bkg it was obvious that there would be a big fight coming.
So why wasnt the node not reinforced earlier, during dt or so
I suggest ccp takes a closer look to political developements and adjusts the nodes more dynamically. i dont think its that hard having a person reading forums and watching the ships lost per 24 hours and then decide that theres going to be alot of fighting on in the future. esp if its going to be station systems like bkg or mf-
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Jordan Musgrat
Convergent Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.09.08 21:31:00 -
[26]
CCP really should have some dynamic way of reinforcing nodes, so that their servers follow the movement of blobs. ATM, you can count on not having more than 35k players on the server. CCP says their servers can handle 100k. This means that more than half of their server capacity is wasted.
CCP there are good ideas in this thread as well as a question that needs answering, I know you can't respond to every thread, but can you have a look and give some input? -----------
Primary is family values, secondary is 0.0... |
Strom Kryos
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.09.11 17:56:00 -
[27]
For the most part I think I've found a way to get around the issue, I can now reduce the lag but only at the inconvience of not seeing what is occuring on the screen.
Had tried before but did not help, so this was due in some part of either my vidcrd or just by reducing the ammount of data coming from the client. Either node or isp, still doubt isp traffic but not going to bother looking into it any further and put faith into future patches to resolve this completly.
This had not been an issue for me in the past for battles within 50-250 capsule battle but at least I think I can help my alliance out in fleet battles without being a dead target.
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