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Stellar Vix
State War Academy
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Posted - 2007.09.04 10:01:00 -
[31]
Edited by: Stellar Vix on 04/09/2007 10:06:46
I got treats for you!
Gallente Lander
Art done by Nova Fox, its a gallente landing ship hell get the alt mode done soon along with the other 3 races.
SWA PVP |
Marine HK4861
Caldari
Seoltachd
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Posted - 2007.09.04 17:43:00 -
[32]
 Originally by: Stellar Vix
Planetary Cannons
True, that would sort out the problem of orbital bombardment, but then what would stop the cannons being able to snipe any other ship out of orbit?
It's also force the lander craft to deploy further away from the gun installations and hence more travel time to target.
In addition it'd force the invading fleet to either commit to a ground attack/air support or not be involved in the attack entirely (can't stay in orbit and help bombard on beacons any more as the cannons will simply swat them out of orbit).
Also, if I remember correctly, your idea requires ships to enter the surface via the anchorage? Why not simply site cannons where they'd have clear lines of fire at the anchorage. Given the choice between suffering an invading ground force and being forced to rebuild the (very expensive) anchorage, I'd choose the anchorage.
Originally by: Stellar Vix
There is also still the threat of other orbital forces coutner attacking, seiging a planet can take a week or more the constant fighting for the planet would wear down forces and the amount of tiem it takes to caputre the planet is far less than the time it takes to glass the surface.
You don't have to glass the entire surface, just the production facilities and military capability. Crippling a colonies ability to build new ships/supplies/stuff and their ability to fight is just as effective. If anything leaving the residential districts intact is more effective to disrupt a colony as the owners still have to keep the colonists fed to avoid unrest/rioting; a task much more difficult due to the destruction of the colony's industrial output (imagine trying to keep food supplies going with no petrol or electricity).
Originally by: Stellar Vix
Also why destroy what could have been a years worth of work when you can easily capture and profit just as much as the previous owners did?
Let me ask this if you had a chance to hijack an enemy titan or destroy it what would you do?
Now let me ask this, would you still try to destroy the titan even if it meant losing your entire fleet and still possibly fail? or will you go with your chances of stealing it?
It depends on whether you can hold the colony or not. If you can, good for you.
If you can't, loot and pillage, raze whatever's left, then retreat and leave the enemy to pick up the pieces.
In your example of the titan - if I could steal it AND get it into safe space, then I'd go for it. If I could steal, but couldn't get it into safe space, I'd self destruct it to deny the enemy the use of it.
To add insult to injury, I'd probably then salvage it, then flog the parts on the market. 
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Stellar Vix
State War Academy
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Posted - 2007.09.04 21:38:00 -
[33]
The orbital cannons will only shoot ships that go into seige or equivalent modes in its orbit. Ill take a look at the rest of the post later but please keep posting and poking holes in this, we need to hammer as many bumpy things out as possible.
Also did you see the picture of one the landers?
SWA PVP |
Auron Shadowbane
Teeth Of The Hydra
R i s e
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Posted - 2007.09.04 22:18:00 -
[34]
really like the idea.
only have one problem:
In no **** way we want a DREADNOUGHT type ship (doesnt matte if tier2 or tech2) to be involved into planetary bombardement. their weapons would prolly aniihilate the whole battlefield in one hit. biggest that should be used is a battleship (tech2 with an advanced targeting systhem, so it can power it's weapons down while makeing them super-accurate so they have a relative low scattering on the surface battle).
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Marine HK4861
Caldari
Seoltachd
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Posted - 2007.09.04 22:58:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Stellar Vix
The orbital cannons will only shoot ships that go into seige or equivalent modes in its orbit.
That would imply that the planetary cannons have a signature resolution of ~1700m if all they can hit are dreadnoughts (siege mode doesn't appear to increase a ship's signature radius).
I'm not sure I like the idea of having the cannons refusing to shoot anything smaller though - maybe they can take pot shots but increase the signature resolution to a point that anything smaller than a capital ship has a decent chance of avoiding it?
Originally by: Stellar Vix
Also did you see the picture of one the landers?
Yup, saw the picture and thought "Meh, it's Gallente".
Thinking over your units though, are you going to have a infantry/vehicle relationship like Command and Conquer, ie anything bigger than an APC can run infantry over?
I'd also remove the chemical weapons ability from the Amarr Inquisitor as it makes little sense in a space environment where all soldiers will be in fully equipped hostile environment suit with self contained breathing apparatus. Maybe go with the traditional route and replace it with a flamethrower or a short-range area-effect plasma weapon?
Originally by: Stellar Vix
Ill take a look at the rest of the post later but please keep posting and poking holes in this, we need to hammer as many bumpy things out as possible.
Trust me, we're all hammering away.
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Kevek Ka
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Posted - 2007.09.05 00:55:00 -
[36]
Are the colonist just assumed to be there? Orbital bombardment would be bad for a population that is working in your colony.
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Stellar Vix
State War Academy
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Posted - 2007.09.05 10:02:00 -
[37]
I didnt think about units on the ground other than theyll do miniscule damage and the way they get deployed into the field. Units in actual combat wheren't all that well brushed on, I at least wanted to see infantry scout, apcs, tanks, anti-atmo and have two units in each group, somone also mentioned mechs which are in eve's artistic fiction (have seen 2 of them in pictures both are civillian though) just there hasnt been to much on ground warfare.
If possible it could be expanded upon but this is my afterthought process.
And at least and possibly the fighters as well for closer air support.
Its true a dreadnaught shot would and shoudl anhilate an entire battlefield but the inplaced defense grid would greatly reduce the impact of the weapon.
Now the option to only destroy parts of the colony would be a good idea but we have to prevent the idea of trying to bombard the center control or city regions where if you eliminate those would be easy victory on the rest of the planet.
Orbital Defense Guns would have their own maps as well and can be fought over to disable.
There was mention of a possible reinforce mode the cities. There is however the issue of this turning into a fancier POS warfare... there needs to be some thought into this in how to delay the enemy long enough for there to be retaliation (which imo is a great mechanic).
Also its seems that all the landing base ships should have a carrier function but only when on the ground this is, the reason why is that I have to blame the artist Nova Fox for drawing them that way.
Nova Designed it so when then Landing base ship 'docks' with the ground it transforms, well his idea of it transforming into a base included and air strip on each one of them so far. These airstrips arent accessible during space flight.
For example the top side of the gallente one there opens up in half. the tops then become armor plates for the side of the ship while the top side control tower swings into place and the landing deck is already there sitting compfy ready to launch a small squadron of fighters.
As for the rest of the transformation the two forward 'feet' strech forwar giving the vertical thrusters room to tuck in as the weapon mounts swings outward and over so that the weapons would be top side as the rest of the mount hugs the ground. Then the aft thruster does its vstol mode and the troop bay on the 'belly' opens up.
As of now after sorting though about 30 other designs we've decided on a caldari one finally and hes busy making it look nice.
SWA PVP |
Stellar Vix
State War Academy
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Posted - 2007.09.05 10:20:00 -
[38]
Now then quick overview of two systems going into consideration
Model A
Units are basically 'rights' to use that unit on the field.
When you start out you get all of the units you have rights to be deployed, replacement units are issued per reinforcement timer. Skills may allow control up to 15 units(ship bonus, command and adv command) + 10 issued units(ship bonus & natural reinforment allotment) totalling 25 max units per side.
Unit replacment when the timer is up is however maxes out at 5.
Units are upgradeable and trainable.
Some upgrades require certain level of training for example milita has to get attack power to lvl 1 to become a soldier or lvl 1 defense for a gaurdsmen and both of lvl 2 to become a marine.
Upgrades however resets thier levels to 1.
Ground forces are only trainable on colonies though.
The more units you have or the more complicated they are the LONGER your timer gets, a side with 30 milita will have lesser time than a tank division on replacements.
Skills Effect the timer.
Additional Reinforcments can be issued by drop ship and drop pod.
Drop pod are 1x use units if they die they wont be replaced.
Drop ships can spawn units aboard it onto the field when reinforcment timer is up, still deciding if it should or shouldnt add to reinforcement timer, this is a theoretical balance issue here.
The landers will have thier own unique special 'power' based on the race, for example gallente would have a drone strike, and the caldari a ITBM.
Subcommanders would assist in giving bonuses to the army. Possibly act as your field agent (tells you your units/base are under attack or reiforcments have arrived.)
Subcommanders would also be allowed to substitue for players that ARENT there when the hostiles attack when nobody is on.
Subcommanders may also get their own super power such as the caldari air general would have airstrikes available.
Atmospheric forces cannot target forces in the ground but they can engage other atmospheric units such as the planetary air force, or other players and superpowers that are deployed (however theyll be indisguishable between friend or foe or types).
Atmospheric can and should provide support to the ground units but it runs the risk of getting shot down by special webbifer missiles or specific anti-ship weapons. The flare ability recharges faster than the beacon ability.
Orbital Guns dont fire on non-seiged mode capitols, reason being they cant get a targeting solution for even moving targets but once a target commits to a immobile state they can get a firing solution and sink it. Carriers and Motherships might be able lock and launch reinforcments to reinforcement beacons without seige mode.
Drop pods will be a one use missile like weapon. Once it lands it deploys its soldiers and turns into a defense structure (turrent on it)
Drop Ships behave like fighters they would be assingable to pilots and controlled or returned. They also have better weapons and defense than the pods and are resuable.
Units are only lost if the ship carrying them is destroyed or if they become abandoned on the field due to hasty retreat.
SWA PVP |
Stellar Vix
State War Academy
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Posted - 2007.09.05 10:26:00 -
[39]
Pros of model A
Easily Tweakable balances based on the clock alone.
Fewer units on field = lighter server loads
Fewer units means more has to be accomplished with less thus a tatical approach would be made paramount.
May emphasise the risk vs reward factor. Risk the hard patch of ground fighting for the ultimate reward of the colony itself or, do the lesser risk and blow it up to high heaven for little reward.
No base building required, just slap on modules and there you go.
Cons of Model A
May be to slow or perpetual, timer tweaking can mean the differences on that or even who wins or loses.
Orbital Forces and even atmo forces assisting ground froces seems unrealistic.
The lack of base building.
Im sure there are others.
Model B follows most rules of model A
Units are multiples of that soldier, thus if you bring a 100 tanks its 100 tanks.
There is no reinforcment timer. Units are the only resoucre.
May not have ground vs sky or sky vs ground warfare.
There are other differences as well but ill leave that to the original poster of that model to make them.
SWA PVP |
Stellar Vix
State War Academy
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Posted - 2007.09.07 01:13:00 -
[40]
Okay it seems ive come to have an improvement for the landers
Tech 1 versions would be the standard landers with armies and the sort with 1 super power
Tech 2 versions would be the ones that get the airfield installed on it so they can call in thier own airstrikes which would make it technically a second super power.
However this brings up a new question? Shoudl supoer powers have limited ammo? for example the artillery strike superpower? should it use ammo from your cargo bay for it?
Also because of small cargo bays landers have as most the storgage sapce was converted to a cargo bay it almost sorta balances out. the only super power that shouldnt have an ammo would be the moral boosters.
SWA PVP |
Seito
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Posted - 2007.09.07 11:51:00 -
[41]
/signed!
Great job stellar!
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