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Devianation
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Posted - 2007.09.01 11:54:00 -
[1]
This is in regard to all those players who have been blown up in high sector areas and dont deserve to lose billions worth of items and having them unregister and take their friends along with them.
1. Carebears dont want to be involved in PVP because they might not want to / cannot technically / physically / mentally support pvp warfare and pvp losses. My own friend has recently lost everything he earned running missions for the past 1 year by being high sec ganked. I told him myself to stay in high sector and avoid any gang invites where players are at war.
For one, I do not understand why the developers are letting ingame loops where players get into a gang to help someone and the other person invites another into the gang and ganks the person up.
This is not about "knowing how to play".
This is a failure of design to notify the player of whats going on in the gang at approximate speed of the average uses comprehension.
It causes immense mental distress and depression to see everything you've worked for and used to enjoy playing with your friend getting blown up infront of you without even doing anything wrong.
2. Science fiction is one, those who play this game with a small group of real life friends would rather play it in their own space and have some amount of interaction with other players in the environment.
3. If a player has earned their ISK honestly in high sector space, grinding missions to whatever extent of pleasure they get out of playing the game. Let them, when you say someones lost something and try and comfort them saying "its just a game", if its just a game then why not apply "its just a game" and let people play it how their like within the game.
4. Give carebears a way to avoid pvp conflict in high sector. Let them have their fun their way. People will always be bulleys but thats why guidelines are made. Make guidelines for these people. Both pve and pvp people to give pve players a self driven motivation to play the game.
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Captian Internet
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Posted - 2007.09.01 12:13:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Captian Internet on 01/09/2007 12:14:54
Make your own gang before helping some one. If you wish to avoid pvp 100% mine,build, and research your own ships and modules forever to remain devoid of the market or any other tool that requires your interaction with another player. No not even those damn core x hardeners you MUST buy.
I can almost guarantee you got killed because you were flying some useless pimpmobile that was allready waaaay capable of doing virtually any mission with ease but the fact that you just HAD to have it custom detailed with flames, gold spinning thrusters, a Opux Luxury Stero system, and a jacuzzi in your capsule!? seriously who needs all that.
Form the gang yourself problem solved go back to your mindless mission farming you robot.
Local Thread 107-b |
Camilo Cienfuegos
EP0CH
Black Sun Cartel
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Posted - 2007.09.01 12:20:00 -
[3]
From the knowledge base:
 Quote:
Please note that no matter where you are, there is no absolute guarantee you will not be attacked. Concord hands out retribution, but cannot promise constant protection.
As this very clearly states, Eve-Online is not akin to Sim City with the disasters turned off...
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Falbala
Gallente
Les Enfants de Gaia
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Posted - 2007.09.01 12:31:00 -
[4]
Sorry to say that but considering high sec is safe is a mistake. It has and will always be dangerous. There are ways to secure your valuables without making high sec 100% pvp free.
When I cashed in my research points I couldn't afford to lose this money, so what I did? I spent a lot of money on creating courier contracts with a collateral worth 25% more the value of what I was asking to haul. I paid about 3% of the value of the collateral for the hauling. I lost a lot of money doing that but I secured my valuables.
You cannot risk all what you have to earn a little more money, it's too much of a gamble. Either play safe or if you play risky do it the right way with the appropriate ships and some help. Take a cheap ship and go mine in 0.0, you can get caught but if you don't have implants what do you lose? Just some time and a clone. This is how to play risky the right way.
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Devianation
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Posted - 2007.09.01 13:06:00 -
[5]
Thats like saying if you work hard you're not supposed to make what you deserve....
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Captian Internet
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Posted - 2007.09.01 13:14:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Devianation
Thats like saying if you work hard you're not supposed to make what you deserve....
f1-f8 is not that hard just tedious
you are entitled nothing there is no promise of fortune
just the hope that you can make isk. This "honest" money you speak of has just as much value of what your perceive to be "dirty" money all that matters is who has enough to pay the bill. You paid the price for your ignorance suck it up and move on. You don't really need a faction raven seriously
Local Thread 107-b |
Ellaine TashMurkon
MetaForge
Ekliptika
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Posted - 2007.09.01 14:35:00 -
[7]
The fact is that gang mechanics are not intuitive at all, and gang members SHOULD get warning message when their gang is about to become war gang. Give them a minute to live, and all is fine.
Or at least player guides should tell newbies about risks of highsec suicide gank and risks asociated with gang mechanics.
Hating carebears and "adapt or die" approach has nothing to do with that, people should die to risk/reward choices they made, not to counterintuitive mechanics unknown to new player.
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Captian Internet
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Posted - 2007.09.01 14:58:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Ellaine TashMurkon
The fact is that gang mechanics are not intuitive at all, and gang members SHOULD get warning message when their gang is about to become war gang. Give them a minute to live, and all is fine.
Or at least player guides should tell newbies about risks of highsec suicide gank and risks asociated with gang mechanics.
Hating carebears and "adapt or die" approach has nothing to do with that, people should die to risk/reward choices they made, not to counterintuitive mechanics unknown to new player.
It is a simple case of not heeding the warning. All people need to do is make their own gangs and the problem is solved
Local Thread 107-b |
Ellaine TashMurkon
MetaForge
Ekliptika
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Posted - 2007.09.01 15:16:00 -
[9]
How is a newbie going to know this? How is he even going to think about this?
I don't live in empire and never care about war or not (well maybe when I ho shopping) and I'd have no clue about war gang mechanics if not by chance, reading this forum. How can a newbie for whom gang is a way to join 2 of his freinds to help them run lvl 4 mission, is going to know the trick? At least, he should get a warning message saying "Remember that any gang may become a war gang at any moment, create gang on Your own or gang with people You know well to be on the safe side."
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Captian Internet
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Posted - 2007.09.01 15:26:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Ellaine TashMurkon
How is a newbie going to know this? How is he even going to think about this?
I don't live in empire and never care about war or not (well maybe when I ho shopping) and I'd have no clue about war gang mechanics if not by chance, reading this forum. How can a newbie for whom gang is a way to join 2 of his freinds to help them run lvl 4 mission, is going to know the trick? At least, he should get a warning message saying "Remember that any gang may become a war gang at any moment, create gang on Your own or gang with people You know well to be on the safe side."
X wants you to join their gang, do you accept?
No-one in this gang is currently in a corporation that is at war. However, be aware that if a fellow gang member's corporation does go to war with other corporations you become vulnerable to attack by members of those corporations. You do not have the right to attack those parties unless they attack you first.
NOTE: Attacking members of your gang is not a CONCORD sanctioned activity and may result in security status loss and a police response.
I see nothing wrong wit this warning
Local Thread 107-b |
Ellaine TashMurkon
MetaForge
Ekliptika
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Posted - 2007.09.01 16:26:00 -
[11]
Ok, I thought there's no warning. If there is - its preys own fault not to read and understand warnings :)
Rule of thumb - if You don't understand warning, assume its serious and first avoid then analyze :)
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wamingo
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.09.01 17:52:00 -
[12]
People join this game as it's very attractive graphically and such but completely oblivious to how harsh it really is.
If CCP wants 300k customers they can't write "lose and we *****you in the arse" on the adverts, though that would be a fairly exact depiction.
I imagine CCP will be loyal to money eventually though.
-- I won't not promise to avoid refraining from harming you! .... What? |
Anaalys Fluuterby
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.09.01 18:34:00 -
[13]
I have one question:
How can anyone that has been in game more than a couple of months NOT know about suiciding. ganks and the fact you can be killed anywhere?
Sorry for the loss, but seriously are you living under a rock?
Originally by: CCP Chronotis
Since this thread continues to fight against the people who derail it into the macro miners witchhunt. I will move it to features and ideas discussion where ...
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Ellaine TashMurkon
MetaForge
Ekliptika
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Posted - 2007.09.01 19:09:00 -
[14]
Well, You can play every day for 6 hours, but avarage person plays 2-3 days a week, 1 hour or maybe 2. When I was a newbie, I wanted to try everything, but I was not in a corp full of mighty vets and I knew and learned little (but it was fun). Over 6 months in empire I think I knew much less then people we now recruit and teach as newbies in 0.0, withing a week. And I think, that is average.
Also, even if someone plays much, tons of people are used to be led by hand, from other games. If agents tells them to go to another agent, they don't even imagine there is something in this game beyond missions. Their knowlege can be very limited, and also - they are first to get bored, frustrated and leave. Anything to get them enligntened helps to save few :)
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Deviant Pixelus
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Posted - 2007.09.02 01:27:00 -
[15]
From a designers point of view, this is nothing to do with game mechanics, its about the fact the ganging feature not being designed well enough to notify the player of other players joining the gang midwarp or midmission, going to war instantly and start attacking the innocent guy.
This is a question of pure interface design.
NOTIFY the player about what changes ae going on in the gang, if someone joinswithout notification whos as at withthe the opposing guild in the same gang, have a message beep like a broadcast.
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Tesal
Red Frog Investments
Blue Sky Consortium
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Posted - 2007.09.02 02:24:00 -
[16]
Just out of curiosity, why would he load all the gear he had acquired over a year into a single ship, then get into a gang of people he either don't know all of them or are not sure of?
You know you can take 2 trips right?
You know you can set a good tank and load up warp stabs right?
And why was he gallavanting about with all of his assets in his hold?
I feel for his loss because I have been there (albeit not nearly to that scale), but he really could have and should have taken more precautions. A small load of even 50M worth of junk can be a nice fat target for gankers in the right situation. Don't give them the chance. I hope this person doesn't quit EvE, but still, it seems a rather silly thing to do.
By the way, he didn't lose the most important thing, his character. In the end, that is the only asset that really matters.
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Captian Internet
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Posted - 2007.09.02 03:28:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Tesal
Just out of curiosity, why would he load all the gear he had acquired over a year into a single ship, then get into a gang of people he either don't know all of them or are not sure of?
You know you can take 2 trips right?
You know you can set a good tank and load up warp stabs right?
And why was he gallavanting about with all of his assets in his hold?
I feel for his loss because I have been there (albeit not nearly to that scale), but he really could have and should have taken more precautions. A small load of even 50M worth of junk can be a nice fat target for gankers in the right situation. Don't give them the chance. I hope this person doesn't quit EvE, but still, it seems a rather silly thing to do.
By the way, he didn't lose the most important thing, his character. In the end, that is the only asset that really matters.
He is a Mission Bot
They are programed to
Run missions
Buy Ravens
Run missions
Buy Faction Ravens
Run Missions
Buy Faction Hardeners
Run Missions
Buy Faction Launchers
Untill they end up with a full Estamel Fit Navy Raven which can then be sold for a few State Issue Ravens
Then Run Missions
Buy Faction mods
Until they have an estamel fit state issue raven.
At this point the program terminates
No one knows what happens afterwards
Quite a boring life if you ask me
Local Thread 107-b |
Anaalys Fluuterby
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.09.02 06:34:00 -
[18]
Next time use the overview bugs to your benefit:
1)Join gang
2)Allow warp to location.
3)Drop from gan while in warp
4)Smile while COncord blows them to pieces because you still show as red to them.
5) Pick up loot then salvage if you feel froggy.
Originally by: CCP Chronotis
Since this thread continues to fight against the people who derail it into the macro miners witchhunt. I will move it to features and ideas discussion where ...
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Chainsaw Plankton
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Posted - 2007.09.02 07:14:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Anaalys Fluuterby
Next time use the overview bugs to your benefit:
1)Join gang
2)Allow warp to location.
3)????
4)Profit
slight edit 
I'm sorry but if you want to play a single player game with no consequences there are plenty of other games out there.
lego starwars is a good one
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Anaalys Fluuterby
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.09.02 22:33:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Anaalys Fluuterby on 02/09/2007 22:33:21
Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton
Originally by: Anaalys Fluuterby
Next time use the overview bugs to your benefit:
1)Join gang
2)Allow warp to location.
3)????
4)Profit
slight edit
I'm sorry but if you want to play a single player game with no consequences there are plenty of other games out there.
lego starwars is a good one
Ganking due to questionable game mechanics has nothing to do with "playing a single player game with no consequences"; its simply questionable mechanics. The OP does have a point in that regard, but only a point. There really is nothing that can be altered since you DO get a warning about the potential. Any alteration would prohibit friendly corps that are not in an alliance from helping each other, which is part of what a MMO is all about. So leave it as it is.
Still, I can't believe that anyone DOESN'T know this can happen. Its only been posted some fifty times in the year I've been here. CCP can't make you safe in a game which tries to emulate a cold, cruel universe. Only YOU can make yourself safe by thinking things through and acting accordingly.
PS-No change needed on my post. Its the "perfect? way to strike back at the gankers by using their own tactics against them. Isn't that the spirit of ganking? 
Originally by: CCP Chronotis
Since this thread continues to fight against the people who derail it into the macro miners witchhunt. I will move it to features and ideas discussion where ...
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