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Minister Nendek
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Posted - 2007.09.04 00:24:00 -
[1]
Well I think it is destorying the market, because everyone loses out. Ill explain why.
Say there are 10 buy orders all around .01 of eachother. When you make a huge jump in price, everyone else follows since you have just dictated the new "buy" price.
Now we have 10 buy orders all around .01 of eachother just at a higher price. Sooner or later that price gets almost as high as the sell price. So effectively you have destroyed any profit that item had.
It also works in reverse, why sell lower than you have to? Why buy higher than you have to? If something is that competitive, any huge price changes wont discourage trading, then the profit margin gets smaller and smaller.
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Stakhanov
Katana's Edge
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Posted - 2007.09.04 00:35:00 -
[2]
Market manipulation maybe ?
You know , tricking other traders into placing high buy orders , and selling them stuff you bought for cheap somewhere else - where sell orders are suspiciously low...
 Originally by: Cipher7
If you manage to get baited, what's your skill, being a good victim?
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Ramblin Man
Empyreum
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Posted - 2007.09.04 00:49:00 -
[3]
People who don't do something about others manipulating their markets are the economic equivalent of station huggers smacking in local.
This is a perfectly valid game feature -- either deal with the PvP or stop selling.
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Chainsaw Plankton
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Posted - 2007.09.04 00:49:00 -
[4]
destroying the market, or destroying your profit?
if you want to sell/buy something quick you may as well overbid/underbid everyone else in hopes of trying to get that quick sell/buy. not everyone has to follow.
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Dr Slurm
General Commodities
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Posted - 2007.09.04 01:05:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Minister Nendek
Well I think it is destorying the market, because everyone loses out. Ill explain why.
Well you are wrong. It is not destroying the market in the least bit, in fact its good for the consumer.
Quote:
Say there are 10 buy orders all around .01 of eachother. When you make a huge jump in price, everyone else follows since you have just dictated the new "buy" price.
Now we have 10 buy orders all around .01 of eachother just at a higher price. Sooner or later that price gets almost as high as the sell price. So effectively you have destroyed any profit that item had.
As lame as it is, its the name of the game. If you can't take it (which is entirely the point) then trade something else.
Quote:
It also works in reverse, why sell lower than you have to? Why buy higher than you have to? If something is that competitive, any huge price changes wont discourage trading, then the profit margin gets smaller and smaller.
Its called market pvp, or as I like to call it market chicken. It does nothing to harm the market, it merely harms your profit margin since you speculate. Speculators provide a service between the patient consumers and the impatient. Where one has time the other has money.
If you read my posts in $.01 isk thread you will see my stance on this issue. I do see it as pointless if people are just going to continue marking up or down accordingly, but it is not destroying the market.
Tired of the inane ramblings of the incompetent? Click here |
Galgorth
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Posted - 2007.09.04 01:09:00 -
[6]
I'm assuming you're either a producer or a trader. Somebody on the 'sell' side of things.
If you're familiar with economics, you'd understand that this is what is SUPPOSED to happen. The more participants there are in a market, the slimmer the margins become and the higher volume becomes. This is good for consumers, who end up paying lower prices off of low sell orders and make decent profit by selling to high buy orders. It is also good for traders; in my experience, the ideal markets (outside of contract trading) are those in which there is sufficient volume to achieve daily turnover, but not so much volume that there is no profit to be had.
A few weeks ago before the coupling arrays nerf, Tritanium hovered around 2.5 at the lowest sell order and 2.49 at the highest buy order. That is an extreme example of a market with tremendously high volume and miniscule margins.
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Ambo
2nd Outcasters
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Posted - 2007.09.04 11:30:00 -
[7]
Yes, it does damage everyone's profits. At least in the short term.
That may be the intention but more often than not I think it's simply people who don't realise or care what effect thier actions will have on thier own profits.
That is the game we play though, it always wound me up when I started out trading but these days I don't worry about it.
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Falbala
Gallente
Les Enfants de Gaia
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Posted - 2007.09.04 11:33:00 -
[8]
Say you have 5 million tritanium that you want to sell @ 2.70 but everyone buys @ 2.30. What do you do?
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Shadarle
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Posted - 2007.09.04 11:37:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Minister Nendek
Well I think it is destorying the market, because everyone loses out. Ill explain why.
Say there are 10 buy orders all around .01 of eachother. When you make a huge jump in price, everyone else follows since you have just dictated the new "buy" price.
Now we have 10 buy orders all around .01 of eachother just at a higher price. Sooner or later that price gets almost as high as the sell price. So effectively you have destroyed any profit that item had.
It also works in reverse, why sell lower than you have to? Why buy higher than you have to? If something is that competitive, any huge price changes wont discourage trading, then the profit margin gets smaller and smaller.
How about you read the other thread on the first page in which it is clearly stated why it is done?
If you don't have the ability to find that post then just accept that I raise my prices by a lot just to annoy people who make posts like this one.
Tanking Setups Compared
Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained |
Ms Gritt
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Posted - 2007.09.04 16:00:00 -
[10]
ROFL , Quit bidding .01 higher than if you dont want to play the game.
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Hexxx
Minmatar
ironwood ink
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Posted - 2007.09.04 18:30:00 -
[11]
I am not a Socialist.
I do not run a charity.
I am a capitalist and I will bid whatever I like in order to achieve my goals. This means that I will destroy profit margins so long as I still meet my goals. Whatever it takes. 
Welcome to Market PvP.
Hexxx LLP - Business Consulting Services - IPO's, Business Plans, Share/Stock Pricing, and general Consulting.
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Ignatius Nilsson
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Posted - 2007.09.04 18:57:00 -
[12]
It is called freedom and it is the most important thing in a market. Dictating rules about prices will destroy the market.
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SencneS
Amarr
Balsarferskratchin Inc
Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2007.09.04 20:30:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Minister Nendek
Well I think it is destroying the market, because everyone loses out.
The person making the sale doesn't lose out.
Every so often people come on here talk about how 0.01 is bad and how NOT doing 0.01 is also bad. In reality the buyer doesn't give a toss what price they are buying it for, they will buy it for the cheapest price.
They don't care if you can mine out a Battleship's worth of minerals in 1 hour, refine it at 100% with no TAX, Manufacture it with no loss in 1 hour, and sell it with no broker fee or tax. The buyer really doesn't care. They just see your Battleship on the market for 5mil below everyone else and they buy it from you. Along with a few other factors like range from current location. I've paid 4mil more for a battle cruiser next door instead of saving that 4mil and making 20 jumps round trip.
If you can't afford to compete with people cutting margins down to 0.5% then you shouldn't be selling that item. Don't have the illusion everyone else is out to make the most amount of ISK per sale, some just want to make their ISK back, or even take a loss just to get rid of it.
If that means choking everyone Else's margins to the negative then so be it.
Amarr for Life |
Hexxx
Minmatar
ironwood ink
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Posted - 2007.09.04 21:28:00 -
[14]
Originally by: SencneS
blah, blah
If that means choking everyone Else's margins to the negative then so be it.
YARRRR!!!!!
Hexxx LLP - Business Consulting Services - IPO's, Business Plans, Share/Stock Pricing, and general Consulting.
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altforaday
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Posted - 2007.09.04 22:19:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Minister Nendek
Well I think it is destorying the market, because everyone loses out. Ill explain why.
Say there are 10 buy orders all around .01 of eachother. When you make a huge jump in price, everyone else follows since you have just dictated the new "buy" price.
Now we have 10 buy orders all around .01 of eachother just at a higher price. Sooner or later that price gets almost as high as the sell price. So effectively you have destroyed any profit that item had.
It also works in reverse, why sell lower than you have to? Why buy higher than you have to? If something is that competitive, any huge price changes wont discourage trading, then the profit margin gets smaller and smaller.
if there are 10 buy orders you haven't sufficiently 'imposed' yourself on the market
trading IS pvp
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Shadarle
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Posted - 2007.09.04 22:35:00 -
[16]
Originally by: altforaday
Originally by: Minister Nendek
Well I think it is destorying the market, because everyone loses out. Ill explain why.
Say there are 10 buy orders all around .01 of eachother. When you make a huge jump in price, everyone else follows since you have just dictated the new "buy" price.
Now we have 10 buy orders all around .01 of eachother just at a higher price. Sooner or later that price gets almost as high as the sell price. So effectively you have destroyed any profit that item had.
It also works in reverse, why sell lower than you have to? Why buy higher than you have to? If something is that competitive, any huge price changes wont discourage trading, then the profit margin gets smaller and smaller.
if there are 10 buy orders you haven't sufficiently 'imposed' yourself on the market
trading IS pvp
There is no way to stop people from placing buy orders. You can, however, stop people from updating their orders ahead of yours.
Tanking Setups Compared
Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained |
Laughing God
Red Frog Investments
Blue Sky Consortium
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Posted - 2007.09.05 20:16:00 -
[17]
Like other have said, it might destroy the market for you, which probably why the order was placed that way.
Traders have more limited tools available when we want to fight competition. For me it usually boils down to adjusting price, order volume or location for my items. I¦d say price adjusting is the easiest and demand the least work for me, so if I can chase others away by reducing my profit for awhile, I¦ll do that.
Trade is also PvP...Yarr
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Daeva Vios
Ardent Adversary
Anvil.
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Posted - 2007.09.05 20:45:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Daeva Vios on 05/09/2007 20:46:12
Market Share > Short-Term Profit
Market Share = Long-Term Profit
They're destroying your market. They are fixing their market.
As stated above: YARRR
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Ramblin Man
Empyreum
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Posted - 2007.09.05 22:25:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Daeva Vios
Edited by: Daeva Vios on 05/09/2007 20:46:12
Market Share > Short-Term Profit
Market Share = Long-Term Profit
They're destroying your market. They are fixing their market.
As stated above: YARRR
Nicely emphasized. 
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Shadarle
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Posted - 2007.09.06 12:17:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Daeva Vios
Edited by: Daeva Vios on 05/09/2007 20:46:12
Market Share > Short-Term Profit
Market Share = Long-Term Profit
They're destroying your market. They are fixing their market.
As stated above: YARRR
Well said.
Tanking Setups Compared
Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained |
Hexxx
Minmatar
ironwood ink
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Posted - 2007.09.06 12:32:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Daeva Vios
Edited by: Daeva Vios on 05/09/2007 20:46:12
Market Share > Short-Term Profit
Market Share = Long-Term Profit
They're destroying your market. They are fixing their market.
As stated above: YARRR
Perfect quote! It will be going into my Bio in a day or two.
Hexxx LLP - Business Consulting Services - IPO's, Business Plans, Share/Stock Pricing, and general Consulting.
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Salem Al
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Posted - 2007.09.06 13:55:00 -
[22]
It does not destroy the market, it encourages competition.
For me, if an item is gets to hot, I move on to another item that I have been watching. This market is huge, and the EVE Universe is also huge. Lots of things to buy and sell, Lots of place to buy and sell from.
If you don't like the price don't bid on it and find something to go after or maybe this realm of the game isn't for you.
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Idrift
Caldari
Perkone
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Posted - 2007.09.07 20:09:00 -
[23]
Yeah, what just about everyone else on this thread said.
One of my weapons buyers is getting into an ugly battle over named T1 weapons. I'll probably end up loosing money on those particular weapons but I am well diversified and will make it up on others so over all I keep making money.
The funny thing is I think the other person is also diversified so we are going to end up clobbering each other and the mission runners are going to profit. Why stay? Because I was buying those weapons first and I consider them 'mine' in 'my' area. Silly I know but I don't always make sense. I do always make money. 
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