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[Proposal] Properly nerfing incursions while preserving their good side

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Takeshi Yamato eXceed Inc. No Holes Barred 135	Posted - 2012.01.18 08:58:00 - [1] - Quote I'm going to keep it short and sweet. This is about incursions in highsec by the way. The good side of incursions is that it's an organized group activity where you can make new friends. Highsec was sorely lacking this type of opportunity. A MMO should always promote group activities like Incursions over solo play by tying it to better rewards. The problem is not the 100 mil per hour, it's the fact that you can get 100 mil per hour for hours, every day, for as long as you can stomach it. A proper nerf would include one of the following: 1) Reducing the rate at which Incursions appear in highsec and limiting their duration. There should not always be a highsec Incursion available, but when they are up, let the pilots flock to them for the ISK and LP. Limiting their duration means that at a certain point only the mothership site would remain to be completed. 2) Letting Incursion rewards decrease on an individual basis the more missions are completed. "You've done 50 missions in the last three days? You only get half rewards" or something like that. 3) A variation of the above, allow full rewards only for a fixed number of sites per day.
TrollFace TrololMcFluf Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 63	Posted - 2012.01.18 16:34:00 - [2] - Quote WAAA MUMMY people in hsec are making is and i dont like it WAAAA MUUUUMMMMMY A video of the OP Isnt the wittle baby cute But seriously if you want to nerf 100m in hsec we must also nerf the 100m+ in nullsec as its pretty much completely risk free money with your blue space and intel channels.
Takeshi Yamato eXceed Inc. No Holes Barred 137	Posted - 2012.01.18 16:52:00 - [3] - Quote TrollFace TrololMcFluf wrote: WAAA MUMMY people in hsec are making is and i dont like it WAAAA MUUUUMMMMMY A video of the OP Isnt the wittle baby cute But seriously if you want to nerf 100m in hsec we must also nerf the 100m+ in nullsec as its pretty much completely risk free money with your blue space and intel channels. "Captain, the butt hurt meter is off the charts on this one. What shall we do? Ignore it, Scotty." On a more serious note, I've done Incursions for a while as well and honestly most people expect a nerf from what I gathered during casual discussions.
Akrasjel Lanate Naquatech Conglomerate 514	Posted - 2012.01.18 17:41:00 - [4] - Quote Nerf high sec Incursion rewards
Smiling Menace Star Nebulae Holdings Inc. 102	Posted - 2012.01.18 18:56:00 - [5] - Quote Why does everyone want hi sec nerfed? It always seems to be a form of jealousy when I read these threads. If they are making good isk from doing incursions their way then good luck to them. If you want the same, go join them in hi sec for some risk free isk. Null is just as bad to be honest. You can run plexes all day, every day without ever seeing a hostile. Where's the risk there?
Goose99 710	Posted - 2012.01.18 18:57:00 - [6] - Quote Nerf moon goo
TrollFace TrololMcFluf Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 64	Posted - 2012.01.18 20:22:00 - [7] - Quote Goose99 wrote: Nerf moon goo THIS Then remove local in nullsec No local = no free intel = less reliable intel channels = more risk for your 100m+/H rewards
Wolodymyr Mando'a Navy Controlled Chaos 23	Posted - 2012.01.18 21:20:00 - [8] - Quote Smiling Menace wrote: Why does everyone want hi sec nerfed? Because you can make more isk with out any risk in a highsec incursion than you could running sanctums out in null which is far more dangerous. *I say no isk without risk!*
Andski GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 1579	Posted - 2012.01.18 22:43:00 - [9] - Quote buff nullsec, nerf highsec into the ground
Goose99 710	Posted - 2012.01.18 22:46:00 - [10] - Quote Wolodymyr wrote: Smiling Menace wrote: Why does everyone want hi sec nerfed? Because you can make more isk with out any risk in a highsec incursion than you could running sanctums out in null which is far more dangerous. *I say no isk without risk!* I, null bear, stay in the deep end of blue sov null ass, where isk flows free and you don't see hostiles for weeks on end. In highsec, every grey lurking around the corner can gank you.

curedCrow TSA Department of Molestation 4	Posted - 2012.01.18 23:01:00 - [11] - Quote You FAIL to mention all the greys and there multiple ways of griefing a fleet AND multiple was of ganging a fleet. Anyone ever here of a 10 man blackbird fleet wiping out a 10 man 50 billion isk fleet? there are plenty of risks running incursions in high sec. While in 0.0 someone enters local you dock. someone leave local you go back to making 150 million plus isk an hour. Just because someone besides you is making isk doesn't mean it op and unfair. Get over yourselves. CCP will not Nerf high sec incursions.
Andski GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 1580	Posted - 2012.01.18 23:06:00 - [12] - Quote curedCrow wrote: You FAIL to mention all the greys and there multiple ways of griefing a fleet AND multiple was of ganging a fleet. Anyone ever here of a 10 man blackbird fleet wiping out a 10 man 50 billion isk fleet? there are plenty of risks running incursions in high sec. While in 0.0 someone enters local you dock. someone leave local you go back to making 150 million plus isk an hour. Just because someone besides you is making isk doesn't mean it op and unfair. Get over yourselves. CCP will not Nerf high sec incursions. ahahaha where did you hear this 150M ISK/hr nonsense, that's hilariously difficult to break, especially with only one account you also assume that every blue is friendly, because you're a slackjaw who has never heard of awoxers
Drake Draconis Nexus Advanced Technologies Fidelas Constans 244	Posted - 2012.01.18 23:18:00 - [13] - Quote curedCrow wrote: You FAIL to mention all the greys and there multiple ways of griefing a fleet AND multiple was of ganging a fleet. Anyone ever here of a 10 man blackbird fleet wiping out a 10 man 50 billion isk fleet? there are plenty of risks running incursions in high sec. While in 0.0 someone enters local you dock. someone leave local you go back to making 150 million plus isk an hour. Just because someone besides you is making isk doesn't mean it op and unfair. Get over yourselves. CCP will not Nerf high sec incursions. You aparently don't know what 0.0 life is like...allow me to calrify for your noob brain. when someone etners local in 0.0..we don't just dock up or safe up...we get our ships..and rightly kick said visitors sorry @$$ right back out with the approrpaite answer...at a minmum track him with various intelligence channels...or call in for back up...and its qutie fun to watch. As far as the 150 mil isk...heh...there are easier ways to make that money in 0.0...and incursions are not the only source (in-fact its too bothersome it seems...i dont hear about incursions very often in 0.0). The problem here smarty pants is people are milking the system that shouldn't be allowing them to do so so easily...and while I'm torn on the subject of nerfing...I think both parties are right...and wrong. Incursions where designed to force peolpe to do them in large groups in order to gain the best rewards...but too many and that starts to flatline if not crash. Yet they can be greifed and infilitrated easily. A investigation should be looked into to be sure...but not nearly as dramatic or bad as both parties to be sure. Also bear in mind that incursions in 0.0 are dangerous....you get the safety of not worrying about bubbles and such. In 0.0... ANYTHING goes.
james1122 Aperture Harmonics K162 0	Posted - 2012.01.19 00:02:00 - [14] - Quote Why don't you just make it that once the MOM site has spawned no more other sites spawn. That way the incursion can't be left open for days to be farmed.....
DoraTheExplora Taft The Management. 6	Posted - 2012.01.19 01:15:00 - [15] - Quote I strongly support this! It is not fair to the rest of the eve community for incursion runners to be able to farm them and refuse to pop the mothership leaving the constellation rendered disabled for weeks possibly. To those who argue it is somehow not a fair stance to take that they should not be farmable. How does it fit into the lore that the incentive for players should be to never allow the incursions to be defeated? In some cases people are actually taking action to prevent the defeat of the mothership. This is obviously not the way the feature was intended to be used. If not a hard limit I would support any sort of strong incentive to kill the mothership. I mean after all isn't that the whole point of fighting an incursion?
tu at Republic University Minmatar Republic 0	Posted - 2012.01.19 01:47:00 - [16] - Quote nerf tech moons
Wolodymyr Mando'a Navy Controlled Chaos 24	Posted - 2012.01.19 02:31:00 - [17] - Quote curedCrow wrote: You FAIL to mention all the greys and there multiple ways of griefing a fleet AND multiple was of ganging a fleet. Anyone ever here of a 10 man blackbird fleet wiping out a 10 man 50 billion isk fleet?. No I have never heard of T1 cruisers killing at a 1 to 1 ratio 5 billion isk ships. Is this some sort of wierd incursion thing? Or were you wardecked and just REALLY bad at pvp? Honestly in any scenario I can think of, if you lose 50 billion isk in ships to an equal sized gang of T1 cruisers you deserve to explode. Goose99 wrote: I, null bear, stay in the deep end of blue sov null ass, where isk flows free and you don't see hostiles for weeks on end. You are doing it wrong. Also this is kind of an issue with the horrible NAP fest that null is evolving towards. Goose99 wrote: In highsec, every grey lurking around the corner can gank you. As opposed to nullsec (or even lowsec) where every neut that wanders into your space actually is trying to kill you. tu at wrote: nerf tech moons Yeah tech moons are kind of bullshit because it's only the power block leaders who see any benefit from them. All the front line grunts just have to fight over them.
Rocky Deadshot In The Goo EVE Trade Alliance 76	Posted - 2012.01.22 07:04:00 - [18] - Quote My proposal- Nerf income to be on par with lvl 4s using an on par fleet with no competition for 50mins (but registering in as an hour) as your gage. The reason for only having the 50min increment is to compensate for competition and fleet comp not being ideal. Ideally this would mean that someone in ANY ship would have a choice to run lvl4s or run incursions and make about the same amount of isk either way, hopefully incursions will make a little bit more to help encourage moving the systems and looking for fleets. Make VGs harder... particularly making tama's do enough dps that they have to be cleared in OTAs. Also adding sites to all of the types would be fun. Make the MoM appear in the mobilizing phase, and make the mobilizing phase (if it doesnt already) start 72hrs after the incursion goes live. (or more). Basically my ideal here is, incursions should be a healthy alternative, and only slightly more profitable, to lvl4s for Hisec. Frankly even if their payout was on par with lvl4s you would still see plenty of people flying them because of the human interaction.
RubyPorto Profoundly Disturbed RED.Legion 1246	Posted - 2012.01.22 07:43:00 - [19] - Quote james1122 wrote: Why don't you just make it that once the MOM site has spawned no more other sites spawn. That way the incursion can't be left open for days to be farmed..... I'd say that would work pretty well. Turn incursions into commercial fishing. A High stakes race to earn until enough fish are caught that they season's over. Maybe go with once Sansha's influence gets to 0% no other sites spawn (not 100% sure on the MoM spawn mechanics) but the Mothership does. (The influence probably shouldn't regen much once it's there, doing a MoM site at high sansha influence would be impossible were it allowed to regen a lot) No nerf to the income per site, or added difficulty to achieve that income. Just makes it into a race. Single-Shard, Player Driven Sandbox. 5 words. That's what makes it special in my eyes.
Scatim Helicon GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 248	Posted - 2012.01.22 09:48:00 - [20] - Quote Wolodymyr wrote: tu at wrote: nerf tech moons Yeah tech moons are kind of bullshit because it's only the power block leaders who see any benefit from them. All the front line grunts just have to fight over them. You assume that fighting is a chore which people in 0.0 'have' to do and don't enjoy at all. Having said that, yes, nerf tech moons, they're dumb, nerf them as well as highsec incursions. ~If you want a picture of the future of WiS, imagine a spaceship, stamping on an avatar's face. Forever.

Borg Stoneson SWARTA Mostly Clueless 1	Posted - 2012.01.22 10:13:00 - [21] - Quote Make incursions dissapear at the next DT after the sansha supercap spawns. It's not a nerf, but it stops people from being able to farm them endlessly for days on end. Or, CCP could just undo the nerf to incursion damage output.
Rico Minali Sons Of 0din Fatal Ascension 274	Posted - 2012.01.22 11:56:00 - [22] - Quote Make all the sites spawn just once or twice and then once the SC turns up everythign else stops, easy. Oh and I love all the comments about 150 mill/hour in nullsec and safetey and oh wait, none of you have a clue what your talking about do you... And what alliance leaders keep all the tech and pay their mortgages? Im not saying it was never done, but sure as hell it isnt done in our coalition, have you seen the things that the grunt on the frontline gets? SRF'd BSs, free capitals and skillbooks and more. You guys spouting about how we all just drone up and the leaders get all teh isk are basically a bunch of morons. Trust me, I almost know what I'm doing.
RubyPorto Profoundly Disturbed RED.Legion 1247	Posted - 2012.01.22 16:10:00 - [23] - Quote Wolodymyr wrote: curedCrow wrote: You FAIL to mention all the greys and there multiple ways of griefing a fleet AND multiple was of ganging a fleet. Anyone ever here of a 10 man blackbird fleet wiping out a 10 man 50 billion isk fleet?. No I have never heard of T1 cruisers killing at a 1 to 1 ratio 5 billion isk ships. Is this some sort of wierd incursion thing? Or were you wardecked and just REALLY bad at pvp? Honestly in any scenario I can think of, if you lose 50 billion isk in ships to an equal sized gang of T1 cruisers you deserve to explode. Goose99 wrote: I, null bear, stay in the deep end of blue sov null ass, where isk flows free and you don't see hostiles for weeks on end. You are doing it wrong. Also this is kind of an issue with the horrible NAP fest that null is evolving towards. Goose99 wrote: In highsec, every grey lurking around the corner can gank you. As opposed to nullsec (or even lowsec) where every neut that wanders into your space actually is trying to kill you. tu at wrote: nerf tech moons Yeah tech moons are kind of bullshit because it's only the power block leaders who see any benefit from them. All the front line grunts just have to fight over them. There are... 3-4 alliances who own Tech atm. All have extensive ship replacement programs. The leader of at least one of these tech holding alliances has been vocal in his insistence that the Tech bottleneck be fixed (Give you a hint, he's on the CSM and his role rhymes with 'fairman'). Besides. We grunts enjoy fighting. That's kind of why we live in null. Single-Shard, Player Driven Sandbox. 5 words. That's what makes it special in my eyes.
Jalmari Huitsikko draketrain Confederation of xXPIZZAXx 17	Posted - 2012.01.23 12:12:00 - [24] - Quote i hear titan ratting sanctums makes 500mil/h nerf sanctums
Tallian Saotome Fractured Core Fatal Ascension 346	Posted - 2012.01.23 12:21:00 - [25] - Quote I've got a simple fix for Incursions, I have decided to push... Change the mom so that no longer does an HQ site spawn, but she starts hotdropping people who are running the other sites. That fixes the risk/reward ratio, without crazy schemes like making Incursion areas nullsec, or a complete overhaul of the system. Whether she goes for a random site with people in it, the site with the most people, least people, it will still set the risk at a high bar(especially since incursions are tuned to pay out based on number of people in the fleet). o/`-á Lord, I want to be a gynecologist.. KY, rubber gloves, and a flashlight.-á o/`
Claire Sorel ScrapYard Wolves Laika. 0	Posted - 2012.01.23 13:32:00 - [26] - Quote The only really good idea, I've read in this thread, was to stop sitespawning after the influence reached 0%... That would force the ppl who flys Incoursios to stop from time to time, so the influence can go up a few percent. The reward should be better then lvl4s, basedo n the efford to set up a working fleet. You need logis, a webber and DPS. you have to organize your fleet, and someone have to fc that all (spreadfire is deadly) for lvl4 missions, you just have to skill a t2 fitted Drake or a Domi Wolodymyr wrote: No I have never heard of T1 cruisers killing at a 1 to 1 ratio 5 billion isk ships. Is this some sort of wierd incursion thing? Or were you wardecked and just REALLY bad at pvp? Honestly in any scenario I can think of, if you lose 50 billion isk in ships to an equal sized gang of T1 cruisers you deserve to explode. you never was in a incursion site, right? you can crash a fleet by bumping the logis befor they can warp, or scramble them, if you're in a lower highsecsystem. The Sanshas will melt your fleet (yes, ships for 50 billion) with in 20 seconds
Michael Harari The Hatchery Team Liquid 42	Posted - 2012.01.23 14:15:00 - [27] - Quote The problem with incursions is mainly that the majority of the reward is just straight cash into your wallet. Change the payouts to be almost entirely LP based.


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