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Crom Mitra
University of Caille Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2012.01.18 18:12:00 -
[1] - Quote
Before rejoining EVE, I did quite a bit of looking around for a good MMO. Things I was looking for: -Open sandbox environment and persistent world -Group vs. group PVP -Players can conquer portions of the map and/or have real influence on the game world -Player-driven economy a plus
In other words, an MMO with strategy. But not a turn-based multi-player wargame. PVP that has consequences for the game world, not just PVP for PVP's sake. But not a side vs. side mass battle, where the game map resets when one side wins.
The closest things I found were Fallen Earth and Xyson. Both of which are new-ish and have some kinks to work out. In other words, still kind of primitive, if not buggy. Any MMOs out there comparable to EVE in terms of the sophistication of the game world, and the group vs. group PVP? |
Reiisha
Splint Eye Probabilities Inc. Dawn of Transcendence
80
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Posted - 2012.01.18 19:29:00 -
[2] - Quote
Only other ones i can think of might be Darkfall and Ultima Online. |
Borg Stoneson
SWARTA Mostly Clueless
0
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Posted - 2012.01.18 20:44:00 -
[3] - Quote
Haven&Hearth is suprisingly deep, the sandbox is persistant, the Villages (similar to EVE's corporations) can and do wage war on each other over territory, high quality resource nodes, prime real-estate, loot, cattle or just "because". The player economy could best be described as "bartering", villages and independant homesteads trade resources with each other as and when needed.
That said the game is very far from perfect, there's a lot of lag, once you get to metal tools, there's not many updates and you'll find a sudden lack of variety. Perhaps most damingly, usualy about once a year the server resets wiping the entire world and spawning a new procedualy generated map. |
Graelyn
Amarrian Retribution
172
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Posted - 2012.01.19 00:47:00 -
[4] - Quote
If there were anything like EVE, I would be playing it.
Remember, despite it's overwhelming success in the MMO market, the idiotic 'gaming community' still considers EVE's approach to be a 'niche' design philosophy.
Catering specifically to morons makes one many millions. Not doing so is still considered strange and alien to most any game company. + Cardinal Graelyn + Owner/Operator, "The Summit" YR113 Amarr Loyalist of the Year
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Gabriel Mangeiri
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2012.01.19 04:31:00 -
[5] - Quote
Graelyn wrote:If there were anything like EVE, I would be playing it.
Remember, despite it's overwhelming success in the MMO market, the idiotic 'gaming community' still considers EVE's approach to be a 'niche' design philosophy.
Catering specifically to morons makes one many millions. Not doing so is still considered strange and alien to most any game company.
Wisdom. |
Valei Khurelem
180
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Posted - 2012.01.19 05:56:00 -
[6] - Quote
Reiisha wrote:Only other ones i can think of might be Darkfall and Ultima Online.
Do not play Darkfall >_< I was in the beta.
"don't get us wrong, we don't want to screw new players, on the contrary. The core problem here is that tech 1 frigates and cruisers should be appealing enough to be viable platforms in both PvE and PvP." -á - CCP Ytterbium |
VKhaun Vex
Viziam Amarr Empire
276
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Posted - 2012.01.19 06:42:00 -
[7] - Quote
Dark Age of Camelot. It was one of the 'original' MMO's before WoW become the standard formula. They have added lots of quests to it, but it remains a game where it's more about going and killing stuffs than completing quests, and it's PvP is a three way free for all instead of only two sides.
If you want you can level entirely in PvP arena areas where there are no set teams and each level range has it's own PvE grind quest where you can camp carebears, and it's own central keep which you can take control of. End game is a massive map called the frontier dotted with keeps and towers you can take control of.
It is still a surprisingly active game, but like EVE it leans hard in favor of veteran players. Fighting in PvP gives you realm ranks that give passive benefits and points to spend on more passive or active benefits.
Game play centers on committing to actions. Spell casters for example must stand still to cast, but there is no push bar like modern games. You are interrupted and casting is cancelled if you take damage with the ability to cast a single spell uninterruptedly with a skill on a 15sec timer. Melee characters set up special moves, one to execute and optionally a second key press sets another one as 'backup' if it fails (behind target, you block first, etc.).
The game is balanced entirely towards group vs group fights. Some classes will naturally seem over or under powered, but make a lot more sense if you can get it in your head early that it's a team fight game. |
Liam Mirren
187
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Posted - 2012.01.19 08:37:00 -
[8] - Quote
Agreeing to the above DAoC reply, there's a free shard that uses the old (non-WOWified) expansions. google "uthgard". If it's worth doing, it's worth doing right. |
vidax
Incompertus INC Fatal Ascension
0
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Posted - 2012.01.19 15:56:00 -
[9] - Quote
When I took a break from EVE, I played a little Pirates of the Burning Sea.
I quite liked this little mmo. Its not nearly as epic in scale as EVE but the ship combat is much much more advanced. (Sail Ships, not space ships :) )
Group tactics like keeping good formations to ensure everyone has a firing arc on the primary target and blocking your friends that start taking damage make for much interesting battles.
Its very limited in scale, max 6v6 combat in open sea and 24v24 for port battles.
Ship production economy is mostly player controlled apart from some basic ships.
You can attack other nation's ports and fight for them. Losing a port severely impacts the economy of players who had production in that port.
After a nation wins enough battles and gets enough points they can 'win' the map at which point the winning nation gets a bunch of cool stuff and the whole map resets to default positions.
I also found the PvE to be much harder and less of a grind, and more of a storyline arc progression. You generally only do a mission once. Many cant be done alone.
Here is a video of one of the port battles i was in. I am Vidax there as well :) My name gets called a few times
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1OOt5TBCHU
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Nachteule Kohen
4
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Posted - 2012.01.19 16:41:00 -
[10] - Quote
the simple answer is no there isn't anything else like EVE.
other mmos use multiple servers, that alone isn't really MMO. more like massive multiplayer hubs.
why is wow an mmo? because there's 2000 people on each server? in that case games on xbox are mmos because they are all connected to xbox live.
eve is it... for a long while. |
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Sethose Olderon
Gryphon Chancellery Gryphon League
15
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Posted - 2012.01.20 04:50:00 -
[11] - Quote
Games like Eve are are rare in the current MMO universe. As a previous poster said, companies are more than eager to design games for the lowest common idiot and cash in, rather than produce games for the intelligent and discerning gamer.
At this point, just be thankful your one of the gamers with more than two brain cells, and can actually play Eve. "All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent." - Thomas Jefferson |
Selinate
597
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Posted - 2012.01.20 05:39:00 -
[12] - Quote
The original everquest, believe it or not, was very similar. Especially if you played on a PvP server. It didn't have the player controlled sections, though, but it still had at least *somewhat* of a sandbox feeling for it's time... |
Rutuli
Vangers.
3
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Posted - 2012.01.25 07:14:00 -
[13] - Quote
Perpetuum, look for it on google. Pvp is more dinamic than Eve, the rest is just the same |
Crom Mitra
University of Caille Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2012.01.25 16:24:00 -
[14] - Quote
Good stuff. Re Pirates of the Burning Sea, I tried that one briefly and was impressed. I just did the tutorial stuff, but even solo the ship combat was pretty intricate and pretty fun. I'd have stayed with the game, except for the part about running to this NPC, get a quest, turn it in, now run to that one, etc. I suppose once you get past the starter stuff, it's more sandbox and the quests are less of an element. I may have to give POTBS another try. DAOC too. |
Salem Aurilen
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2012.01.26 01:03:00 -
[15] - Quote
While i know of a few companies that are developing MMO's that could be considered even more sandbox then EVE, most of them usually lack the design focus and manpower to achieve their grand ambitions Mortal Online is a pretty good example of that.
http://www.mortalonline.com/
Although Paradox is working on an MMO called Salem which is based in the 17th century new-world which features open PVP and permanent death alongside a player driven economy and colonisation.
http://www.paradoxplaza.com/games/salem
I'm not that interested in it mostly because of its graphics but i would be interested in seeing how they work with PVP and permanent death it would add a lot of depth and immersion to combat.
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NaturalBeast
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
17
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Posted - 2012.01.26 04:50:00 -
[16] - Quote
UO is the one I might finally try. Not as good as pre nerf from what I heard.
But everything gets nerfed. I still miss the nano age of EVE. :(
I tried POTBS years back and it's decent but more of an arena type PVP system.
Actually for ship combat STO is much better than EVE. Now a cash shop game which sucks.
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Avrilette
fais que ton reve soit plus long que la nuit
0
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Posted - 2012.01.26 10:40:00 -
[17] - Quote
How about Wurm Online? Ok, it doesn't have spaceships, but you're pretty much on your own, you have to build everything from scratch (cut log-make spindle-make hammer-make nails-build house...) On the bad side, it's kinda empty, at least in EUTZ. It's also free, with skill limit and no pvp in the "free isle", and no avatar customization . I has an impressive wiki and corporations are called villages. There's almost no missions - it's a virtual world. Oh and it's crossplatform because it's pure Java. |
Akrasjel Lanate
Naquatech Conglomerate
535
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Posted - 2012.01.26 14:33:00 -
[18] - Quote
Mortal Online |
Crom Mitra
University of Caille Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2012.01.26 14:51:00 -
[19] - Quote
Avrilette wrote:How about Wurm Online? Ok, it doesn't have spaceships, but you're pretty much on your own, you have to build everything from scratch (cut log-make spindle-make hammer-make nails-build house...) On the bad side, it's kinda empty, at least in EUTZ. It's also free, with skill limit and no pvp in the "free isle", and no avatar customization . I has an impressive wiki and corporations are called villages. There's almost no missions - it's a virtual world. Oh and it's crossplatform because it's pure Java. Xsyon sounds very similar. I think it will be an excellent game someday. Nice graphics, very realistic 3d world (based on topo maps of the Lake Tahoe area), pure sandbox. They released it too soon though, almost a beta stage. People flooded in, got irate about the state of development, and left. Now only a few players around. Which is sad, because the game is better now, and because its a sandbox it needs lots of players to be interesting. No players, no trade, no competition for resources, no PVP, no one to show your finely-crafted fort-camp to. |
Kessiaan
Greater Order Of Destruction Happy Endings
46
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Posted - 2012.01.26 17:20:00 -
[20] - Quote
Gabriel Mangeiri wrote:Graelyn wrote:If there were anything like EVE, I would be playing it.
Remember, despite it's overwhelming success in the MMO market, the idiotic 'gaming community' still considers EVE's approach to be a 'niche' design philosophy.
Catering specifically to morons makes one many millions. Not doing so is still considered strange and alien to most any game company. Wisdom.
This happens to any form of entertainment that gains mainstream acceptance. The fact that new ideas & products proliferate on the internet much, much faster than out in the real world just means it happens a lot more often.
How many times have we seen the cycle of fail on the internet now? Someone has an idea, takes something that used to be the exclusive domain of techies/nerds/whatever you want to call them, gains mainstream appeal, there's a mad rush to clone it and cash in, almost all the clones fail, the entire market is depressed for a while, after a while it recovers and is populated mostly by the same people who were there to begin with, and maybe one or two of the clones who managed to distinguish themselves somehow.
As for MMOs, I have high hopes for Guild Wars 2 to actually do something different, but I've been burned enough times to know better than to buy it before it's been out a couple months at least. My killboard - http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/combat_record.php?type=player&name=Kessiaan |
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Dorian Tormak
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
48
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Posted - 2012.01.26 19:32:00 -
[21] - Quote
Graelyn wrote:Remember, despite it's overwhelming success in the MMO market, the idiotic 'gaming community' still considers EVE's approach to be a 'niche' design philosophy.
Catering specifically to morons makes one many millions. Not doing so is still considered strange and alien to most any game company.
This.
And I vote for Perpetuum as a supplement to Eve Online. Perpetuum is a great game so far, honestly it could have been a planet / ground based sister to Eve, and it has a lot of promise.
Also Mortal Online might be decent now, better than WoW anyway, looking forward to trying MO again.
Re: Guild Wars 2: I think it looks okay but it still reminds me too much of SWtor / WoW / AoC / etc, etc. for me to get excited about it yet. > Security Status: -9.93 > Threat Level: Mediocre Welcome to Eve, where asking a legitimate question recieves trollish comments like "trololol" or "m8". But our community is still better than WoW. Go back 2 WoW noob. |
Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
301
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Posted - 2012.01.26 23:05:00 -
[22] - Quote
I've designed one, want to finance it? |
2bhammered
Perkone Caldari State
10
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Posted - 2012.01.28 02:00:00 -
[23] - Quote
To answer your question OP, no! |
Brisco County
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
3
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Posted - 2012.01.29 05:16:00 -
[24] - Quote
Gaming is big money, now. It's going to overtake Hollywood, soon, if it hasn't already. Most companies are sawing off their barrels, turning their franchises into scatterguns so they can reap the most money from the biggest audience possible. Look at Skyrim - a fuckin chimp can run quests in that game. Half the skills from Daggerfall have been stripped away. Dialogue choices are at the bare minimum. ****, I could go on for days about the tardification of TES.
We're lucky to have a company like CCP who kind of eschews the big money in favor of aiming their game at our small niche. If any game ever does compete with Eve, it will probably be made by CCP. I just hope that their upcoming games bomb and take Eve with them. |
VKhaun Vex
Viziam Amarr Empire
293
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Posted - 2012.01.29 05:58:00 -
[25] - Quote
Brisco County wrote:Gaming is big money, now. It's going to overtake Hollywood, soon, if it hasn't already. Most companies are sawing off their barrels, turning their franchises into scatterguns so they can reap the most money from the biggest audience possible. Look at Skyrim - a fuckin chimp can run quests in that game. Half the skills from Daggerfall have been stripped away. Dialogue choices are at the bare minimum. ****, I could go on for days about the tardification of TES.
We're lucky to have a company like CCP who kind of eschews the big money in favor of aiming their game at our small niche. If any game ever does compete with Eve, it will probably be made by CCP. I just hope that their upcoming games bomb and take Eve with them.
Agreed. Gaming is becoming too formulaic and 'skill' is just a buzz word satisfied by having a huge pile of buttons to press or needing to click in a general direction to fire an ability. I'm astounded how every WoW clone and every CoD repeat breaks records while good ideas go unnoticed. I feel like such a hipster when I talk about games but it's true.
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Elias Riikonen
Ex Machina Libertas
0
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Posted - 2012.01.30 02:28:00 -
[26] - Quote
I'm among the people prone to think "EVE is the only one, and it's unlikely there'll be decent others since most gamers are idiots", but looking at what's been mentioned in this thread, I'm starting to think this attitude is WRONG.
It seems to me that several groups of developers *ARE* trying to make games that have the potential to be awesome, and it's up to us who like sandbox games to support them.
If we don't get other decently populated good games besides EVE, the only reason can be that WE FAILED TO SUPPORT THE PEOPLE DEVELOPING THEM. |
Selinate
638
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Posted - 2012.01.30 05:10:00 -
[27] - Quote
Dorian Tormak wrote:
Re: Guild Wars 2: I think it looks okay but it still reminds me too much of SWtor / WoW / AoC / etc, etc. for me to get excited about it yet.
I actually quit keeping up with gw2, because it's been taking so long to get out...
but isn't it a few steps below those games actually, in terms of sandbox and realism though? |
Crom Mitra
University of Caille Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2012.01.30 22:01:00 -
[28] - Quote
Salem Aurilen wrote:While i know of a few companies that are developing MMO's that could be considered even more sandbox then EVE, most of them usually lack the design focus and manpower to achieve their grand ambitions Mortal Online is a pretty good example of that. http://www.mortalonline.com/Although Paradox is working on an MMO called Salem which is based in the 17th century new-world which features open PVP and permanent death alongside a player driven economy and colonisation. http://www.paradoxplaza.com/games/salemI'm not that interested in it mostly because of its graphics but i would be interested in seeing how they work with PVP and permanent death it would add a lot of depth and immersion to combat. A Paradox MMO might be worth checking out, just because it's from Paradox. Their approach to things is pretty different than everyone else's, as least as far as their strategy games go. No insta-gratification and no hand-holding. You have to be patient and let things happen, but at the same time keep an eye on 10 things at once. Anyway an MMO by these guys might break a few molds. I could imagine it being somewhat low-key but grim. |
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