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Elessa Enaka State War Academy Caldari State 24	Posted - 2012.01.19 04:34:00 - [31] - Quote Max Essen wrote: Tier 3 Mining Barge = Covetor However, I do agree it would be nice to see some additional diversity although I doubt CCP will come out with any mining ship in the near future that would out-mine a Hulk. Personally, I don't think any new mining ships should out-mine a Hulk, they should have a similar yield if you ask me, though I think that they should have much more fitting flexibility/tank Devour to survive, so it is, so it's always been
Kaylyis Aces wild mining corporation 22	Posted - 2012.01.19 04:47:00 - [32] - Quote Elessa Enaka wrote: Max Essen wrote: Tier 3 Mining Barge = Covetor However, I do agree it would be nice to see some additional diversity although I doubt CCP will come out with any mining ship in the near future that would out-mine a Hulk. Personally, I don't think any new mining ships should out-mine a Hulk, they should have a similar yield if you ask me, though I think that they should have much more fitting flexibility/tank Honestly I think the nerf to drone metal is a step in the right direction, for solving part of the problem. A large chunk of the problem is currently industrialists are seen as superfluous and unnecessary, hence the high volume of contempt and trolling. Last i checked, technetium doesn't refine into standard shipbuilding components. But if i'm wrong, please correct me.
Mars Theran EVE Rogues EVE Rogues Alliance 66	Posted - 2012.01.19 04:49:00 - [33] - Quote Krixtal Icefluxor wrote: Mars Theran wrote: Just move the requirements for Mackinaw and Hulk up a bit; no need to drop the skill requirements for Covetor. Skiff Exhumers 2 Mackinaw Exhumers 3 + Refining Efficiency 4 Hulk Exhumers 5 + Refinery Efficiency 5 Simple. Now you need to train a heck of a long time. Drop Covetor Requirement to 4 in the 3 rank skill. Still requires Mining Barge 5. I'd call it done at that, and leave Tech 3 Industrials to Tech 3 Industrials. Completely seperate thing. No. Point is to make that Covetor available to noobs who are THINKING about Industry. Going for the Mack/Hulk should be AFTER the commitment and 'trial'. Training all but 18 hours of the Hulk to get into a lesser ship is just plain not thinking on the part of SOMEone at CCP. And it shows a bit of prejudicial treatment and DIS-respect on the part of CCP to the existing and POTENTIAL Industrial playerbase if you really think about it. All you are going to achieve by lowering the requirements; is making it easier to train up a bot for RMT and Cheaters. Lowering the requirements marginally is fine; but completely reducing them is not. Training skills to level 4 is childs play.
Kaylyis Aces wild mining corporation 22	Posted - 2012.01.19 05:11:00 - [34] - Quote Mars Theran wrote: All you are going to achieve by lowering the requirements; is making it easier to train up a bot for RMT and Cheaters. Lowering the requirements marginally is fine; but completely reducing them is not. Training skills to level 4 is childs play. Sadly this point is valid. Bluntly botters and RMT hurts the industrialists who want to hands-on build things in the game. Lowering the standards makes it easier. IMHO fixing mining is more a matter of making mining dynamic enough that it hurts the botters when they try to use third-party programs. If that can be achieved, then making things easier to get into industry might be feasible. We all believe botting is endemic, we have solid reason to believe it. but it would help to know real numbers, and whether we're just being paranoid with a buncha mining barges with players who are so stoned out of their minds they can't concentrate on more than "shoot rocks." Botting's bad the other is not so bad. We've all SEEN what we believe to be botters. hell I've seen synchronized mackinaw fleets move in and out in tandem. Can it be done manually? Yeah. it's a pain in the ass but it can. I personally don't think it's worth the effort unless I'm looking at imminent ganker attack though. [Edit: I have seen up to four in synch. more would stretch credibility to the breaking point when docking and undocking] But i think what the problem here is peace of mind. No one wants to drop the requirements if it means we're going to see a massive botter ramp-up the instant the change hits. If the problem is as endemic as we all believe it is, that's exactly what we will get, and consequently mining and industry will start sucking even more. I'd prefer CCP fixed mining so it's interesting for the miners, and so that the bot programs have a hard (if not impossible) time keeping up with a manually controlled mining barge before they try to drop the requirements for barges, or beef the tank on the barges. My two cents, sorry for the ramble.
Jafit McJafitson Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 160	Posted - 2012.01.19 11:29:00 - [35] - Quote Krixtal Icefluxor wrote: Do you realize that you entire post is OPINION and NOT facts or ANYTHING a business can even take into serious consideration ????? O P I N I O N. YOU are a part of the problem IMHO. Besides, you are part of TEST, so THERE is the real problem................. Take your Alliance name to heart and IGNORE yourSELF, please. Aww so cute... What part of my post is opinion? You said in the original post that the ice market is being flooded by bots. By the very nature of a bot they can only be programmed to perform a mindless repetitive task, and they happen to exceed at mining thus mining is a mindless and repetitive task. Mindless repetitive tasks are considered to be boring by humans. It's also not an opinion, just an unfortunate fact, that you can do literally any other activity in this game and make more money and be safer while doing it than you can mining. Yes I'm in TEST, we've got a nullsec region full of ABC ores, why don't we mine there? Because it's easier to import minerals from empire. You can make more instant money by killing rats in the belts, why bother mining? You have to kill the rats anyway to mine in peace. Don't take it too personally when I say that mining is boring and not worth a player's time and is easier to accompish with automated mindless robots, it is, but that goes for most other activities in this game. I've seen so many botting Tengus running sanctums out here in Vale and Geminate it's kinda depressing... Mainly because I can't catch them as easily as I can catch botting ravens due to them being interdiction nullified, and I can't just leave a bubble in a belt for them to get stuck in. So yeah, just because the tutorial to the game gives you an ibis with a mining laser doesn't mean that mining is a legitimate career in Eve. CCP should just accept what the botters have shown them, that it should be passive and automated like moon mining and PI. Make an anchorable structure you can leave in belts and grav sites to gather ore for you.
Jowen Datloran Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 277	Posted - 2012.01.19 11:35:00 - [36] - Quote The skill requirements for the Covetor made the ship pointless the moment exhumers were released. Why it has not been looked at earlier is a case of obvious neglect. Mr. Science & Trade Institute, EVE Online Lorebook-á
Benilopax The Ashen Lion Syndicate 142	Posted - 2012.01.19 11:45:00 - [37] - Quote +1 to make the covetor easier to get.
Rel'k Bloodlor Mecha Enterprises Fleet 88	Posted - 2012.01.19 11:53:00 - [38] - Quote Well you guys are forgetting your profession is the ezest to macro, making the time a bot farmer has to lose once he gets caught go down will only hurt your bottom line. Not saying industry doesn't need some love,but you guys have got Orca's and PI and most other profesions have got squat (hacking&scanning still have 0 ships) in the last few years. Isn't the mining noob safer in a BC or BS hull with reg lasers for a wile? Not getting ganked or suicided?
Drew Solaert University of Caille Gallente Federation 41	Posted - 2012.01.19 12:57:00 - [39] - Quote Right first of all, OP your a ** and your attitude is worse than most of the trolls here. Manner Up. Now thats out of the way, the serious stuff Procurer Mining Barges do have issues, its true the Procurer is pretty much entirely pointless, and as suggested freeing up the Scythe and Osprey would help somewhat in boosting its use, but that has to be balanced, as there are miners out there who are like day trippers and still mine in those boats every so often, by changing that Amarr and Gallente will still have great options to mine with, but Caldari and Minmatar Pilots will feel a bit short changed I feel the biggest gain would be by dropping the industry skill requirement from 5 to 4, make it accessible that much faster and removed the problem of racial imbalance, noted above. a procurer would take only a few days to get with skills a budding industrialist would use. A little extra HP or slot would not hurt this ship either. Covetor This is a dangerous issue. Yes it is a * to skill up to, and is pretty much pointless as you can get a Hulk a few days later. BUT lower the skill requirements and suddenly you have people who only trained up to a retriever to help out on ops, or occasionally mine being able to ship up to a much larger yield, and if there is one thing the market needs right now, is more ore/minerals, Until the issue of the Drone regions is sorted and changed to bounties, I don't believe it should be touched. However once it has been, making this ship more accessible can only be a good thing. Barges Survivability Again another issue, they are paper thin but I don't think they should be buffed too much, the tech 1 barges can be insured nicely and only take a minimal isk hit making them perfect for use in riskier areas. Eve should not be risk free, and I feel this stretches out to mining. If you want to mine in the middle or around a hub so be it, take the risk, or go further out and avoid the masses if it means a lil more hauling. Lowsec mining should never be a solo affair and with a good group, scouts and reactions lowsec mining is not only profitable it becomes more of a social activity. For those who are bitching you can't get out in time, co-ordination, fit each barge with a web in a midslot, and have your ships pointing to a safespot. Once hostile is spotted, hit align, and then web each other, hit warp boom, instant warp. Very easy to pull off. Industry in general** It needs to receive more love, and I'm constantly surprised that the t1 manufacturing industry is never mentioned. It is the premier way for a new player to start industry but right now its entirely pointless. Rat drops have all but killed it, and Meta 1 and 2 are pretty much pointless. These drops need to stop and allow an opening for newer players to produce modules. Personally I'd be more than happy if NPC wrecks were empty and only salvageable and to make Meta items produced from reversed engineering and using PI and Salvage drops to produce.
Krixtal Icefluxor Bison - Ammatar Thunder Thundering Herd 269	Posted - 2012.01.19 14:42:00 - [40] - Quote Kaylyis wrote: Elessa Enaka wrote: The idea of Tech 3 Industrials to me is just silly Let's examine this statement closer [..................... Yup. We have found truth on the internets! Mark the bloody calendars. Lol. Like "T3 frigates are the answer to a question nobody is asking". OMG He Spent His Free-áAURUM ! God is simply-áthe very extraordinary power of the Universe to organize Itself as percieved. -á-á- Lee Smolin "Three Roads to Quantum Gravity"

Valei Khurelem 181	Posted - 2012.01.19 14:42:00 - [41] - Quote I used to rant like you, then I took an arrow to the knee. "don't get us wrong, we don't want to screw new players, on the contrary. The core problem here is that tech 1 frigates and cruisers should be appealing enough to be viable platforms in both PvE and PvP." -á - CCP Ytterbium
Cryten Jones Advantage Inc The Matari Consortium 38	Posted - 2012.01.19 14:48:00 - [42] - Quote Drew Solaert wrote: Industry in general It needs to receive more love, and I'm constantly surprised that the t1 manufacturing industry is never mentioned. It is the premier way for a new player to start industry but right now its entirely pointless. Rat drops have all but killed it, and Meta 1 and 2 are pretty much pointless. These drops need to stop and allow an opening for newer players to produce modules. Personally I'd be more than happy if NPC wrecks were empty and only salvageable and to make Meta items produced from reversed engineering and using PI and Salvage drops to produce. Agree, the overall 'free' items that can be built by players needs to be heavily reduced. How about making the meta items ONLY available via player building via an easier level of invention. Eg Module I - loot and NPC Module I Meta1 - Module I + BP + few extra minerals in normal factory Module I Meta2 - Module I + BP + few extra minerals + 2 or 3 units of PI suff + normal factory Module I Meta3 - research BPc in normal lab then + items Module I Meta4 - research BPc in normal lab with datacore + items So basically it's a slow build up skill wise for new players greeting on the path towards T2 production and also allows us older players to take of the 'free loot' slack from day 1. -CJ
Krixtal Icefluxor Bison - Ammatar Thunder Thundering Herd 269	Posted - 2012.01.19 14:50:00 - [43] - Quote Mars Theran wrote: Krixtal Icefluxor wrote: And it shows a bit of prejudicial treatment and DIS-respect on the part of CCP to the existing and POTENTIAL Industrial playerbase if you really think about it. All you are going to achieve by lowering the requirements; is making it easier to train up a bot for RMT and Cheaters. Lowering the requirements marginally is fine; but completely reducing them is not. Training skills to level 4 is childs play. The Botters ALREADY commit to training to V, so what difference does it make training to 4????? NADA. THINK. And they WILL not train to the lower standard Covetor only. You will not keep Botters out of Hulks. The higher 'ridiculous' requirements should be for a newer, different Mining machine of a sort. And not worth the train for Bots. We are talking something large and expensive and not practical for botting. Should cost at least 600,000,000. OMG He Spent His Free-áAURUM ! God is simply-áthe very extraordinary power of the Universe to organize Itself as percieved. -á-á- Lee Smolin "Three Roads to Quantum Gravity"
Krixtal Icefluxor Bison - Ammatar Thunder Thundering Herd 269	Posted - 2012.01.19 14:52:00 - [44] - Quote Kaylyis wrote: Mars Theran wrote: All you are going to achieve by lowering the requirements; is making it easier to train up a bot for RMT and Cheaters. Lowering the requirements marginally is fine; but completely reducing them is not. Training skills to level 4 is childs play. Sadly this point is valid. SNIP No it is absolutely not. The Botters will train to Hulk and avoid Covetor anyway. In fact they must. Need a HARD HARD commited training Tier 3 something or other..... OMG He Spent His Free-áAURUM ! God is simply-áthe very extraordinary power of the Universe to organize Itself as percieved. -á-á- Lee Smolin "Three Roads to Quantum Gravity"
Krixtal Icefluxor Bison - Ammatar Thunder Thundering Herd 269	Posted - 2012.01.19 14:56:00 - [45] - Quote Jafit McJafitson wrote: [What part of my post is opinion? "The real problem with mining is that it's boring and repetitive ............" ____________________________ My opinion is beong a Nuller and doing Alarm Clock Ops is boring and repetitive AND unhealthy. But it is an OPINION. THAT should be automated. See how idiotic it sounds ? This is a SANDBOX, NOT a PvP exclusive game. OMG He Spent His Free-áAURUM ! God is simply-áthe very extraordinary power of the Universe to organize Itself as percieved. -á-á- Lee Smolin "Three Roads to Quantum Gravity"
Krixtal Icefluxor Bison - Ammatar Thunder Thundering Herd 269	Posted - 2012.01.19 15:03:00 - [46] - Quote Rel'k Bloodlor wrote: (hacking&scanning still have 0 ships) in the last few years. Isn't the mining noob safer in a BC or BS hull with reg lasers for a wile? Not getting ganked or suicided? Learn how to play the game. Learn that each race has an EXCELLENT DEDICATED T2 Scanning/Exploration Frigate.........and the T3 Strategic Cruisers are even BETTER as well. YOU are missing some information or something. AND............noobs are NOT in BS's. AND....it's real hard to be ganked outside H'geddon. Whatever............................ OMG He Spent His Free-áAURUM ! God is simply-áthe very extraordinary power of the Universe to organize Itself as percieved. -á-á- Lee Smolin "Three Roads to Quantum Gravity"
Krixtal Icefluxor Bison - Ammatar Thunder Thundering Herd 269	Posted - 2012.01.19 15:04:00 - [47] - Quote Drew Solaert wrote: Right first of all, OP your a ** and your attitude is worse than most of the trolls here. Manner Up. Now thats out of the way, the serious stuff tl;dr You have no clue what you are on about with THAT statement. OMG He Spent His Free-áAURUM !** God is simply-áthe very extraordinary power of the Universe to organize Itself as percieved. -á-á- Lee Smolin "Three Roads to Quantum Gravity"
Krixtal Icefluxor Bison - Ammatar Thunder Thundering Herd 269	Posted - 2012.01.19 15:05:00 - [48] - Quote Valei Khurelem wrote: I used to rant like you, then I took an arrow to the knee. Is it still there ? OMG He Spent His Free-áAURUM ! God is simply-áthe very extraordinary power of the Universe to organize Itself as percieved. -á-á- Lee Smolin "Three Roads to Quantum Gravity"
Ulair Memmet ORIGIN SYSTEMS 18	Posted - 2012.01.19 15:09:00 - [49] - Quote I agree, the training for the Covetor used to **** me off aswell back then. Though i kept using it for some time simply because it was way cheaper and the Hulk was like 600 mill IIRC. But lowering the Skill requirements to Barge 4 and Astrogeology 4 seems totally fine with me. Though it's only a tiny step. Mining as it is now, is just a broken part of the game. Simply because it's boring as hell and way too easy to makro. Edit: @OP: You really did rant in your post up there. You have a valid point, but nonetheless you should try to be more relaxed when writing such posts. It really helps to keep the discussion constructive and keeps the trolls out.
ariana ailith Aribar Conglomerate 37	Posted - 2012.01.19 15:13:00 - [50] - Quote Covetor has great use for newer players. since they're also cheap18m isk or so. As opposed to the hulk which is nearing 200m? So in that respect it can come to great use. That said, i stuck with a retriever until i could afford the hulk. Making money while skilling for it etc. Made more sense to me. But i can imagine a bunch of people don't do that and buy a Covetor as "in-between" ship.

Krixtal Icefluxor Bison - Ammatar Thunder Thundering Herd 269	Posted - 2012.01.19 15:15:00 - [51] - Quote Ulair Memmet wrote: I agree, the training for the Covetor used to ** me off aswell back then. Though i kept using it for some time simply because it was way cheaper and the Hulk was like 600 mill IIRC. But lowering the Skill requirements to Barge 4 and Astrogeology 4 seems totally fine with me. Though it's only a tiny step. Mining as it is now, is just a broken part of the game. Simply because it's boring as hell and way too easy to makro. Edit: @OP: You really did rant in your post up there. You have a valid point, but nonetheless you should try to be more relaxed when writing such posts. It really helps to keep the discussion constructive and keeps the trolls out. The trolling and other NONSENSICAL opinions get tiring by the end of the day. Not feeling like Miss Congeniality by then. OMG He Spent His Free-áAURUM !** God is simply-áthe very extraordinary power of the Universe to organize Itself as percieved. -á-á- Lee Smolin "Three Roads to Quantum Gravity"
Krixtal Icefluxor Bison - Ammatar Thunder Thundering Herd 269	Posted - 2012.01.19 15:17:00 - [52] - Quote ariana ailith wrote: . But i can imagine a bunch of people don't do that and buy a Covetor as "in-between" ship. Point of this thread is THEY DO NOT. Hulk is ONLY 18 hours away.....again........... Lather, rinse, repeat. OMG He Spent His Free-áAURUM ! God is simply-áthe very extraordinary power of the Universe to organize Itself as percieved. -á-á- Lee Smolin "Three Roads to Quantum Gravity"
Krixtal Icefluxor Bison - Ammatar Thunder Thundering Herd 269	Posted - 2012.01.19 15:20:00 - [53] - Quote I'll repeat again the goal of the major points as it still has not been addressed: -------How many of you would have stuck around if you had to train 2 higher rank skills to Level 5 just to get into an Osprey ?? Name me ANY other ship in-game that the T2 skill requirement beyond T1 is mearly HOURS away .------------ OMG He Spent His Free-áAURUM ! God is simply-áthe very extraordinary power of the Universe to organize Itself as percieved. -á-á- Lee Smolin "Three Roads to Quantum Gravity"
ariana ailith Aribar Conglomerate 37	Posted - 2012.01.19 15:21:00 - [54] - Quote Krixtal Icefluxor wrote: ariana ailith wrote: . But i can imagine a bunch of people don't do that and buy a Covetor as "in-between" ship. Point of this thread is THEY DO NOT. Hulk is ONLY 18 hours away.....again........... Lather, rinse, repeat. Read my post again then comment... If you don't have isk its not just 18 hours. Don't be stubborn now...
Krixtal Icefluxor Bison - Ammatar Thunder Thundering Herd 269	Posted - 2012.01.19 15:24:00 - [55] - Quote ariana ailith wrote: Krixtal Icefluxor wrote: ariana ailith wrote: . But i can imagine a bunch of people don't do that and buy a Covetor as "in-between" ship. Point of this thread is THEY DO NOT. Hulk is ONLY 18 hours away.....again........... Lather, rinse, repeat. Read my post again then comment... If you don't have isk its not just 18 hours. Don't be stubborn now... I have seen maybe 5 Covetors actually mining in over 2 years. And that train for the Covetor is so long, along with the other Noob stuff, if one cannot buy a Hulk by THEN, you are doing something real wrong. OMG He Spent His Free-áAURUM ! God is simply-áthe very extraordinary power of the Universe to organize Itself as percieved. -á-á- Lee Smolin "Three Roads to Quantum Gravity"
ariana ailith Aribar Conglomerate 37	Posted - 2012.01.19 15:26:00 - [56] - Quote Krixtal Icefluxor wrote: I have seen maybe 5 Covetors actually mining in over 2 years. Ah yes, that obviously makes them useless... Because you didn't see them. Excellent point there sir :) And with that i retreat from this now pointless thread.
Krixtal Icefluxor Bison - Ammatar Thunder Thundering Herd 269	Posted - 2012.01.19 15:28:00 - [57] - Quote ariana ailith wrote: Krixtal Icefluxor wrote: I have seen maybe 5 Covetors actually mining in over 2 years. Ah yes, that obviously makes them useless... Because you didn't see them. Excellent point there sir :) And with that i retreat from this now pointless thread. They are not there. That is why they are not seen. Good-bye. OMG He Spent His Free-áAURUM ! God is simply-áthe very extraordinary power of the Universe to organize Itself as percieved. -á-á- Lee Smolin "Three Roads to Quantum Gravity"
arcca jeth Dark Alliance Dark Empire Alliance 60	Posted - 2012.01.19 16:37:00 - [58] - Quote Jafit McJafitson wrote: Krixtal Icefluxor wrote: Do you realize that you entire post is OPINION and NOT facts or ANYTHING a business can even take into serious consideration ????? O P I N I O N. YOU are a part of the problem IMHO. Besides, you are part of TEST, so THERE is the real problem................. Take your Alliance name to heart and IGNORE yourSELF, please. Aww so cute... What part of my post is opinion? You said in the original post that the ice market is being flooded by bots. By the very nature of a bot they can only be programmed to perform a mindless repetitive task, and they happen to exceed at mining thus mining is a mindless and repetitive task. Mindless repetitive tasks are considered to be boring by humans. It's also not an opinion, just an unfortunate fact, that you can do literally any other activity in this game and make more money and be safer while doing it than you can mining. Yes I'm in TEST, we've got a nullsec region full of ABC ores, why don't we mine there? Because it's easier to import minerals from empire. You can make more instant money by killing rats in the belts, why bother mining? You have to kill the rats anyway to mine in peace. Don't take it too personally when I say that mining is boring and not worth a player's time and is easier to accompish with automated mindless robots, it is, but that goes for most other activities in this game. I've seen so many botting Tengus running sanctums out here in Vale and Geminate it's kinda depressing... Mainly because I can't catch them as easily as I can catch botting ravens due to them being interdiction nullified, and I can't just leave a bubble in a belt for them to get stuck in. So yeah, just because the tutorial to the game gives you an ibis with a mining laser doesn't mean that mining is a legitimate career in Eve. CCP should just accept what the botters have shown them, that it should be passive and automated like moon mining and PI. Make an anchorable structure you can leave in belts and grav sites to gather ore for you. high sec mining is boring, and i would imagine mining in null is boring, while in blue space. what's not boring? Ninja mining in someone elses SOV space because they do not use it anyways lol and doing it without losing a ship or anyone even knowing/noticing your there. which is another concern with large blocs that have ABC ores just sitting there, that will not allow small mining corps to come and mine those ores because of some sort of selfish power trip. (i know because I have tried to work something out with TEST/GOONS and it failed) back on topic, i have another toon that I was thinking of training to fly a Hulk, and as many times as I have trained to fly Hulks, it was very common that I just trained up Exhumers 1and didnt bother buying or flying a covetor. it should be looked at and tweaked. also, mining/industry needs some love. I'm still trying to spread the idea of a low/null sec Roqual Variant that can refine ore at better rates of the POS refineries. similar cost in skills/sp and isk. that, or fix the POS refineries to be actually worth using. if you use the risk/reward argument. low/null refining at a POS is high risk, so refining should be better there than in stations. /end rant
Jafit McJafitson Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 162	Posted - 2012.01.19 16:59:00 - [59] - Quote Six replies in a row all to people who are telling you how wrong and dumb you are. But that's just, like, your opinion, man! Really though if mining weren't repetitive and boring, it wouldn't be possible to bot it. If you can write me a bot that will do structure shoots for me that would be amazing and I'd love you forever.
Krixtal Icefluxor Bison - Ammatar Thunder Thundering Herd 274	Posted - 2012.01.20 13:05:00 - [60] - Quote arcca jeth wrote: Jafit McJafitson wrote: [quote=Krixtal Icefluxor] Do you realize that you entire post is OPINION and NOT facts or ANYTHING a business can even take into serious consideration ????? O P I N I O N. YOU are a part of the problem IMHO. Besides, you are part of TEST, so THERE is the real problem................. Take your Alliance name to heart and IGNORE yourSELF, please. high sec mining is boring, and i would imagine mining in null is boring, while in blue space. what's not boring? Ninja mining in someone elses SOV space because they do not use it anyways lol and doing it without losing a ship or anyone even knowing/noticing your there. .......A situation that does not involve High Sec at all, so most are denied this pleasure of invading SOV. But no danger ???? I do not find it BORING at all, as the dangers of mining in High now, with the active Goons, etc., makes it JUST as dangerous as Low or Null. A gank can happen at any moment....always has been possible. Has caught me unawares twice in 2 years. And successfully escaping is a HUGE thrill and I LOVE the QQ on Local when they get uselessly podded. Between trying to keep up with my rapid ability to eat rocks now (all relevant skills at 5, only thing I lack is Michi) and the rats, and keeping an eye on Local (although strangers DO stand out in Ammatar), I hardly stop moving when mining. And besides, when we DO get a mining op going it's one of the better 'social hours' and activities available between players and actually strenghthens the community. This is not boring at all, but if that's what you THINK, you are entitled to believe that. Sorry, but I would rather not transfer the same thing to a situation where I 'm licking the Boots of a Null Alliance Leader, obeying every order during Alarm Clock Ops. That's MISERY. OMG He Spent His Free-áAURUM ! God is simply-áthe very extraordinary power of the Universe to organize Itself as percieved. -á-á- Lee Smolin "Three Roads to Quantum Gravity"



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