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Kairg Caldari Caldari State Operations	Posted - 2007.09.10 21:17:00 - [1] I can't find a single setup/ship using weapons other than missiles which actually works well in level 4 missions. They either have low tracking so they can't hit anything moving faster than a snail, or have such a short range it takes forever to complete a mission. Don't get me started on large railguns . The most capable ship I have found so far is a Deimos with blasters, and that only works because it's a small and fast ship, but it's far from ideal. All those skillpoints wasted in gunnery skills because I don't PVP. Seems to me that if you want to run missions (which is a very large portion of Eve's gameplay) you must use missiles to get anywhere. Does anybody use a setup which can run level 4 missions even almost as fast as a Raven? (or any other missile based ship for that matter), relying solely on turrets without the use of drones? Thanks! _____________________________________________________ Under construction
Brodde Dim	Posted - 2007.09.10 21:19:00 - [2] no
Isan Danderoda Strix Armaments and Defence Acheron Federation	Posted - 2007.09.10 21:22:00 - [3] I don't have anything that runs as fast as a Raven, and I doubt anyone does. :) That said I do have a set of large rails on my l4 domi. That's just to speed up how long it takes to knock out the BSes...they're worthless on everything else for the most part (and even some of the BSes too). But then I do a little PvP so I needed the skills anyway. Basically I swapped them in when I heard of the Nos nerf. I like it, but honestly I'm still thinking of swapping over to a Raven for missions just to speed things up. Just don't tell my boss that. I get enough Caldari sympathizer talk from owning a Drake. ;)
Andre Ricard Gallente Templars of Space Fallen Souls	Posted - 2007.09.10 21:35:00 - [4] Rokh, Hyperion, Typhoon, Maelstrom, Abaddon, and Apoc for BS are all quite capable of running level 4 missions. If BS ain't your thing than Astarte, EOS and Absolution work well also. Ishtar and Cerb are about the only Hacs that can run level 4's with any sort of efficiency, Though the zealot is doable. The new Sacralige would probably work also, but I haven't heard anything about that. 1010011010
Kairg Caldari Caldari State Operations	Posted - 2007.09.10 21:39:00 - [5] Originally by: Andre Ricard Rokh, Hyperion, Typhoon, Maelstrom, Abaddon, and Apoc for BS are all quite capable of running level 4 missions. How can these ships hit frigates without the use of drones? _____________________________________________________ Under construction
NoNah Unseen University	Posted - 2007.09.10 21:40:00 - [6] Most ships are capable of completing lvl 4 missions. I daresay none is as fast as the raven - for completing lvl 4 missions. Postcount: 39209
Nagissa Kaworu The Puro Beach Club	Posted - 2007.09.10 21:41:00 - [7] Astarte period, 7x 250mm II rails with a couple of mag stabs and you got yourself a winner Nag.
NoNah Unseen University	Posted - 2007.09.10 21:44:00 - [8] Originally by: Kairg Originally by: Andre Ricard Rokh, Hyperion, Typhoon, Maelstrom, Abaddon, and Apoc for BS are all quite capable of running level 4 missions. How can these ships hit frigates without the use of drones? How can a raven do so?(and deal reasonable damage) Postcount: 962789
Kairg Caldari Caldari State Operations	Posted - 2007.09.10 21:58:00 - [9] Originally by: Nagissa Kaworu Astarte period, 7x 250mm II rails with a couple of mag stabs and you got yourself a winner Nag. How about this setup: Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Medium Armor Repairer II 2 x Rat specific hardeners Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I 250mm Railgun II 250mm Railgun II 250mm Railgun II 250mm Railgun II 250mm Railgun II 250mm Railgun II 250mm Railgun II Capacitor Control Circuit I Capacitor Control Circuit I _____________________________________________________ Under construction
Dahak2150 Chaos Monkeys	Posted - 2007.09.10 21:59:00 - [10] Originally by: Kairg Originally by: Andre Ricard Rokh, Hyperion, Typhoon, Maelstrom, Abaddon, and Apoc for BS are all quite capable of running level 4 missions. How can these ships hit frigates without the use of drones? Why do you have this silly restriction? You want to run L4s in any reasonable amount of time without heavy missiles then you need drones, no way around it. ---------------- Originally by: "Cyberus" cause its has no sence anyway your brains is simply wont accept that anyway.

Fedman Kasad Minmatar Bulgarian Experienced Crackers	Posted - 2007.09.10 22:07:00 - [11] Originally by: NoNah Originally by: Kairg Originally by: Andre Ricard Rokh, Hyperion, Typhoon, Maelstrom, Abaddon, and Apoc for BS are all quite capable of running level 4 missions. How can these ships hit frigates without the use of drones? How can a raven do so?(and deal reasonable damage) Because it's a caldari****missile boat? Because missiles take about 2mil SP to max them out for missions where gunnery takes ~4mil? Because missiles don't "care" about tracking and the target speed/explosion velocity ratio is easy to counter with Target Navigation Prediction? ... [-------------------------------------------------] Tears stream behind my visor, but eyes look unblinking at the world
Kairg Caldari Caldari State Operations	Posted - 2007.09.10 22:09:00 - [12] Originally by: Dahak2150 Originally by: Kairg Originally by: Andre Ricard Rokh, Hyperion, Typhoon, Maelstrom, Abaddon, and Apoc for BS are all quite capable of running level 4 missions. How can these ships hit frigates without the use of drones? Why do you have this silly restriction? You want to run L4s in any reasonable amount of time without heavy missiles then you need drones, no way around it. Because I don't think drones should be necessary if not using missiles. _____________________________________________________ Under construction
NoNah Unseen University	Posted - 2007.09.10 22:10:00 - [13] Originally by: Kairg Originally by: Dahak2150 Originally by: Kairg Originally by: Andre Ricard Rokh, Hyperion, Typhoon, Maelstrom, Abaddon, and Apoc for BS are all quite capable of running level 4 missions. How can these ships hit frigates without the use of drones? Why do you have this silly restriction? You want to run L4s in any reasonable amount of time without heavy missiles then you need drones, no way around it. Because I don't think drones should be necessary if not using missiles. They're just about as necessary whether using missiles or not. And tell me again, why should they not be? I don't think crystals, ammo and charges should be needed when not using hybrid guns. Postcount: 44789
Andre Ricard Gallente Templars of Space Fallen Souls	Posted - 2007.09.10 22:34:00 - [14] Originally by: Fedman Kasad Originally by: NoNah Originally by: Kairg Originally by: Andre Ricard Rokh, Hyperion, Typhoon, Maelstrom, Abaddon, and Apoc for BS are all quite capable of running level 4 missions. How can these ships hit frigates without the use of drones? How can a raven do so?(and deal reasonable damage) Because it's a caldari****missile boat? Because missiles take about 2mil SP to max them out for missions where gunnery takes ~4mil? Because missiles don't "care" about tracking and the target speed/explosion velocity ratio is easy to counter with Target Navigation Prediction? ... Go do a level 4 mission in a torp raven without drones. Have fun! 1010011010
Lili Lu Purveyors of Uber Research Valuables and Ships	Posted - 2007.09.10 22:35:00 - [15] Edited by: Lili Lu on 10/09/2007 22:36:37 Edited by: Lili Lu on 10/09/2007 22:36:00 I have successfully and efficiently run lvl 4 missions in a phoon, geddon, and abaddon. There are of course skills, but also mods that help with hitting the small stuff, tracking computers, tracking enhancers, target painters, sensor boosters/enhancers (for getting the buggers targeted before they get too close for the large guns). Also tactics have to be used more, i.e. you can't warp in, tank and sit like a bump on a log and have them orbit you, you have to move and keep range to cut down on the transversal. What to move toward is one of the fun tactical decisions on warp in. I have not flown a Raven. My experience with cruise missiles is from the phoon, and when the frigs are at range i use the arty to kill them and fire the cruise missiles at the big stuff. Also, I do not have experience with large rails, only small rails on an enyo. Rails apparently have the worst tracking, so I don't know how well the above advice and experience will translate to them. However, large beams and arty seem to have none of the problems you mention. Hope this helps. Guns are more fun. Missiles are blah same old damage again. But guns give you misses and huge wrecking hits and everything in between. They are like a box of chocolates . . . Stay with them, don't become a JAR (just another raven). Also, I have run level 4s in a Sacrilege. It is capable, especially against angels, once you free yourself of the webbing frigs (can hurt til you do and even with great resists you will need dual reppers), but not as quick/efficient as a BS.
Satura Caldari Mucho Dolor The Insomniacs	Posted - 2007.09.10 22:35:00 - [16] Just pop the frigs first, before the things get too close. You will hit most of the time because of their increased sig radius while mwding to you. Is a bit harder than with missiles, for the reasons stated in some of the posts above, but is doable. And why ships have a dronebay? Use it. You won't even be able to do some missions without drones or some of the high slots wasted on small guns or some sort of missile launchers. Period. Or train 600k-1mil in missiles and you can do missions on easy mode.
Lux Exterior Gallente Critical Analysis Te-Ka	Posted - 2007.09.10 22:50:00 - [17] Never forget how quickly 5 x T2 light drones can shred ALL the frigs you will face, and that's only a 25 m3 dronebay, with 50 m3 a full set of T2 mediums will eat everything but the Battleships, and don't forget the DLA in that spare highslot.
Kairg Caldari Caldari State Operations	Posted - 2007.09.10 23:09:00 - [18] Thanks for everybody's replies Going to try the Astarte with 250mm rails, or I might have a look at using the 'phoon. Seems I may have to train some drone skills. They are non-existant at the moment as I refused to use them (I prefer my setup to be part of the ship.) _____________________________________________________ Under construction
Leandro Salazar The Blackguard Wolves Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2007.09.10 23:11:00 - [19] Ignoring the silly drone restriction, an Abaddon can beat even a CNR in missions against Blood, Sansha and Drones, which is the vast majority of what Amarr agents give you. Even against Mercs and EoM it works reasonably well. Usually you can kill frigs at range, drones do the mopping up with whatever gets close and then lend a hand on the bigger ships. DPS is pretty much equal to CNR, and arrives instantly and fully even on smaller ships. To really enjoy this you just have to embrace some new missioning concepts and throw some old misconceptions onto the junkyard where they belong. Main reason for missiles to be the favored PvE weapon is ease of use, convenience and versatility, not that they totally outclass turrets. There is no 'n' in turret There is no 'r' in faction There is no 'a' in Scorpion There is no 'e' in Caldari There is no makeup in rogue drones
Lux Exterior Gallente Critical Analysis Te-Ka	Posted - 2007.09.10 23:13:00 - [20] Phoon has a nice big drone bay! Seriously, Astarte sounds like fun, but you do need those drones. Just get enough skills for T2 Mediums plus Drone interfacing to level 3, forget the other skills for now, that lot shouldn't take too long.



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