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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2007.12.04 17:46:00 -
[91]
Edited by: Akita T on 04/12/2007 17:49:11
Apparently, unless I made some minor mistake somewhere (which I'm sure somebody would rush to correct), the previously posted values in v.14 are valid for Trinity.
Might want to edit datacore, decryptor and T2 material prices yourself all the time right after the big patch, as prices are bound to be highly volatile for a good while... useless to try keep it updated here for that exact same reason.
Still need to add freighter invention and tweak base frig/cruiser invention chances, but that can wait until after the actual patch, since forum will be down while the patch is applied anyway.
C|S|I|N|x. |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2007.12.07 05:32:00 -
[92]
v.14 had the "test server" older PE values and the new confirmed ME values, I had also reverted the runs values back but forgot about reverting the PE values back too.
Trinity (v.15) invention spreadsheet.
The correct me/pe/runs bonus values from now, also included freighters to inventables.
The "guesswork" chance to invent (several ships, especially the smaller ones, have had their invention chance boosted) is auto-linked to actual base chance to invent by default, change if you think you know better.
Default decryptor prices are intentionally left blank, as the different races' decryptor prices are also fluctuating wildly.
Fill those values in yourself manually for desired invention tasks.
C|S|I|N|x. |
Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
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Posted - 2007.12.08 17:01:00 -
[93]
You allready got that bug in your spreadsheet with the core-usage for mining-barge-invention.. it's 8 not 16.
And btw.. I would like to know your opinion on this one:
http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/TresFarmer/invention_v_03_TF.zip
prices for datacores and decryptors (gallente decryptors) are essence..
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Crystal Girl
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Posted - 2007.12.08 18:20:00 -
[94]
I had one success on Broadsword from Operation Handbook and got a 2 run bpc not a 3 run bpc. Did I miss something or did they just make an adjustment.
Stats were - ME (-3), PE 0, Runs 2 ---
Thoughts?
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2007.12.08 18:24:00 -
[95]
The "bonus runs" are explained somewhere on the front page.
For ships, if you use a max-runs T1 BPC in invention you get 1 + bonus decryptor runs... if you use even a maxruns-1, you just get the bonus runs (and you always get at least 1 run).
Hmm, inded, barge is 8 cores not 16, weird nobody noticed before. Correcting Soon™.
Post-patch days have been pretty hectic, both ingame and in RL, so... not much spare time 
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Crystal Girl
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Posted - 2007.12.08 18:53:00 -
[96]
 Originally by: Akita T
Edited by: Akita T on 08/12/2007 18:36:23
The "bonus runs" are explained somewhere on the front page.
For ships, if you use a max-runs T1 BPC in invention you get 1 + bonus decryptor runs... if you use even a maxruns-1, you just get the bonus runs (and you always get at least 1 run).
Hmm, inded, barge is 8 cores not 16, weird nobody noticed before. Correcting SoonÖ.
Post-patch days have been pretty hectic, both ingame and in RL, so... not much spare time
Tres farmer, the sheet you have there is useful, once you get to know what to input and where exactly.
But there's way too much info to look at in a single glimpse, and too many different places to edit your relevant stuff for a first-time user, I know even I was a bit overwhelmed for a couple of seconds
You could group the "fixed data" somewhere by default off-screen (bottom part), move the decryptor bonuses and blueprint types further down, put decryptor prices (separate by race too) and datacore prices somewhere in between the "profitability data" and "hard-coded data", and you could probably auto-pull the relevant prices (and maybe even put back in if values are edited) using the "data mining" part of your algorythm.
Also, last but not least, you could probably auto-link the "most profitable" choice plus desired profit treshold into the sales price with an intermediate value (see "expected invention price" set on my sheet), and color-code the chart accordingly afterwards (so you don't have to manually select a sales price every time).
It's a lot of work, I know, but if you can manage that, that's one kickass spreadsheet 
Thanks. I did read that a while ago, but it didnt sink in. |
Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
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Posted - 2007.12.08 19:12:00 -
[97]
Thx for input and analysis.. will do my best 
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Sale gueule
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Posted - 2007.12.10 14:28:00 -
[98]
I must admit i don't really understand how do you calculate your benefits in your .xls file.
I made mine and i used Binomial distribution B(n,p), with the probability to get "k" success with "n" tries with the "p" probability, where my p is just the average of all my tries with TRUE-FALSE method.
After that i caclulated for each P(X=k) the benefit done, and made every "P(X=k).benefit" to get the E(X) which is simply the sum of all the "P(X=k).benefit" for each decryptor used.
And i don't have your same results (benefit is oubviously "Selling benefit-datacores-decryptors" to be short).
Have i been wrong to calculate in that way ?
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2007.12.10 17:23:00 -
[99]
Short explanation of math used...
Cell P24 is the total "common" invention cost per run (datacores, blueprint, metaitem), and the actual cost is that plus decryptor price (cells I4-I8, since I9 is always 0).
Cells K4-K9 are the number of runs obtained WHEN invention is succesfull.
Cells L4-L9 are the average number of runs obtained through invention per try, and it's a simple multiplication between runs obtained on success times actual chance of success.
The average cost to invent one run of the item is therefore cell P24 + decryptor price (cells I4-I8) divided by average runs obtained (cells L4-L9).
Cells N4-N9 are pretty straightforward, that's the material cost to build the item (without any invention surcharge).
So, the "breakeven" price is obviously the price to build one unit (N4-N9) plus the average price to invent one unit, namely cost per job / average runs per job = (decryptor+fixed) / (runs per blueprint * basechance * chancemod).
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Eron Lygera
Gallente
Sharded Awareness
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Posted - 2007.12.12 18:04:00 -
[100]
I must do something wrong when downloading your sheet, Im only getting corrupt .zip files.
Have tried several different expanders with same result.
Ps. Dont nerf WCS! |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2007.12.12 18:12:00 -
[101]
If you are trying to "save as" the link directly, of course you are getting a "corrupt ZIP", since what you get is an EVE-Files "would you like to save the file or open it directly" HTML page
Try opening the link instead of saving target to see what I mean.
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Eron Lygera
Gallente
Sharded Awareness
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Posted - 2007.12.12 21:15:00 -
[102]
Hmm... seems like my "download enhancer" misread the link as a real zip file where eve-files only serve a html. Never had that issue before though.
Got the file now. Thanks and sorry for me not thinking :-)
Ps. Dont nerf WCS! |
Nyx Opet
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.01.13 22:42:00 -
[103]
btw, the number of runs on a t1 bpc don't seem to affect output runs on the invented t2 bpc.
---
What I have shown you is reality. What you remember, that is the illusion. |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.01.13 22:44:00 -
[104]
Edited by: Akita T on 13/01/2008 22:46:16
They do.
For ships, it's either 1 or max, anything in between is the same as 1.
For modules, it's a lot easier to see how it changes.
Also, exceptions exist.
For instance, jump freighters ALWAYS get 1 run on the T2 BPC, no matter what decryptor you use (yes, even the +9 runs one).
Also, several modules work the same way (mobile warp disruptors if I'm not mistaking).
Last but not least, some T2 ammo is "spooky" too, again, if I'm not mistaking.
Those exceptions are NOT visible in the XLS sheet, the XLS sheet does not "know" about them.
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Nyx Opet
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.01.14 03:31:00 -
[105]
Edited by: Nyx Opet on 14/01/2008 03:33:28
well, i should have clarified. for rigs, i only get one run using the -1,-1 decryptor, even though i used a 1000 run bpc. the more i look into it, it probably means the max runs out for rigs is one instead of ten. |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.01.14 03:34:00 -
[106]
You mean, inside EVE, on TQ ? Or on SiSi ? Or on the spreadsheet ?
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Nyx Opet
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.01.14 03:37:00 -
[107]
Edited by: Nyx Opet on 14/01/2008 03:37:26
Originally by: Akita T
You mean, inside EVE, on TQ ? Or on SiSi ? Or on the spreadsheet ?
on tq, i got one run. so, on the spreadsheet, the max runs out should be one instead of ten. sorry, its late.
---
What I have shown you is reality. What you remember, that is the illusion. |
Ahro Thariori
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Posted - 2008.02.08 22:58:00 -
[108]
can confirm that. Put 6x 1000 run Core Defence Capacitor Sa***uard I bpcs and a tuning interface each in and got 6x 1(!) run t2 bpcs out.
No reason to use more than 1 run input then.
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Forgo
Gallente
Cartographers Union
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Posted - 2008.04.09 15:29:00 -
[109]
Quick question, I started in on invention recently. I am working on drones at the moment and wonder:
I made some 10 run bpcs of hammerheads, and get back 1 run t2 bpcs...no question, understood its not enough runs on the t1.
I have some 1500 run bpcs coming soon, and assume I will get a 10 run t2 bpc..this correct? and would 1000 runs still give me 10 runs on the t2?
I wonder if is there a formula to get say a 6 run t2 bpc using no decryptors.
In other words, is there a certain amount on the t1 bpc per run gained on the t2 bpc? like 100 runs on t1 for 1 run t2, or 400 runs t1 and 4 runs t2 ect. ?
Thanks in advance
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Robacz
Essence Trade
Essence Enterprises
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Posted - 2008.04.10 09:35:00 -
[110]
Originally by: Forgo
Quick question, I started in on invention recently. I am working on drones at the moment and wonder:
I made some 10 run bpcs of hammerheads, and get back 1 run t2 bpcs...no question, understood its not enough runs on the t1.
I have some 1500 run bpcs coming soon, and assume I will get a 10 run t2 bpc..this correct? and would 1000 runs still give me 10 runs on the t2?
I wonder if is there a formula to get say a 6 run t2 bpc using no decryptors.
In other words, is there a certain amount on the t1 bpc per run gained on the t2 bpc? like 100 runs on t1 for 1 run t2, or 400 runs t1 and 4 runs t2 ect. ?
Thanks in advance
Do you have Akita's spreadsheed (linked above)? I believe it answers your question.
Max-Run BPC: 5 / 2 / 1 / 3 / 10 / 1 Runs T2 BPC
Less than Max-Run BPC: 4 / 1 / 1 / 2 / 9 / 1 Runs T2 BPC
Where options are: Decryptor +4 Run / +1 / +0 / +2 / +9 / No Decryptor
You will get 10 Runs T2 BPC with max-run T1 BPC and +9 Decryptor (Circular Logic, Interface Alignm. Chart, Symbiotic Figures, Circuitry Schematics).
Anything less than max run (1500) T1 BPC is same as 1 Run T1 BPC - there are only two conditions: Max-Run and non-Max-Run.
No decryptor will always result in 1 Run T2 BPC.
This is what Akita's spreadsheet says.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.04.10 21:50:00 -
[111]
What Robacz said only applies to stuff that has a "default" T2 maxrun output of 1.
This is the case mostly for SHIPS.
Modules however have a 10-run max base output (so, put in a 1-run, you get 1 run... put in max-runs, get 10 runs... after that, apply the decryptor bonus too).
I sadly can not say anything about drones from personal experience.
____
To put it in other words, each individual item has a default T2 run count.
You just have to know what that number is for each item in particular.
Put in a max-run T1 BPC and no decryptor, you get the max T2 run possible.
On top of that, you add the decryptor bonus if you use one.
Number of runs obtained are always rounded DOWN, then clipped upwards to 1 if under 1.
So, for instance, if you have a max 1000-run T1 item and its T2 counterpart has a default 10 maxruns...
...when you use a 1-run BPC, you get 1 runs on the T2... 999-run BPC, you get 9 runs on the T2, but when you use 1000 you get 10... add a +9 runs decryptor, and you get 9 (yes, just 9, not 10) out of the 1-run BPC, 18 out of the 999-run one, and 19 out of the 1000-run one.
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Casey Windstrom
Gallente
Barts of all Trades
Brotherhood of the Spider
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Posted - 2008.05.03 17:36:00 -
[112]
Hey all... Anyone know if there's a way to get a CSV or spreadsheet of all the data from, say:
Nemesis
for example? That way, I could do a spreadsheet that puts in the relevant bill of needed materials for me. It'd save me a ton of typing. I know there's an eve data export that dumped it all in SQL format, but I've got NO acument with SQL, so I really don't want to deal with that, and I'm not even sure which file in that mess has the data I need. I've already looked at it. <shudder>
Casey
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Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles
Zzz
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Posted - 2008.05.03 17:51:00 -
[113]
Originally by: Akita T
To put it in other words, each individual item has a default T2 run count. You just have to know what that number is for each item in particular.
I think there's a formula for this number. Look up the production limit attribute of the corresponding T2 BPO (this can always be hotlinked in a chat channel, even if no such BPO exists) and divide by 10. This gives you the standard output for a max run BPC, which scales with floor(runs on input BPC / max possible runs) for lesser input bpcs.
This works for everything I've tried so far, including mobile large warp disruptors, which give a base output of 5 runs from max run BPCs, and the 'T2 BPO' production limit is 50. |
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