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Syzygy Three
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Posted - 2004.02.12 23:45:00 -
[1]
36 hours after joining TTI, I get a nice Eve mail from GunnyP informing me that I am expelled from TTI:
2004.02.12 21:31:00 Sysygy, [note what I presume to be a deliberate misspelling]
Nice try MOO... you should have picked a different name than "Syzygy"
GunnyP
This misguide leader based his decision to kick me out of his corp (which has an annoying take-itself-too-seriously application process) on my name alone.
Let me raise an issue or 2 here:
1) What's the point of having a long drawn-out application process if your leader is susceptible to knee-jerk reactions?
2) Do you think m0o, arguably the most successful pirate corp in the game (at least, this is my understanding from having been in the game for 1.5 months) is naive enough to try and slip a mole into a corp like TTI in this manner?
Now, I am angry because I wasted several days waiting to get into TTI, having been mislead by a brightly cheerful recruitment campaign and the promise of playing alongside mature, level-headed players (which I am sure some of TTI's members must be).
Therefore, I'd like this thread to serve as a warning to those contemplating joining TTI and to those already in TTI. Name-based segregation and discrimination are among the signs of a dictatorship in the making.
And to GunnyP, I want an apology until you can prove that I am indeed someone from Moo. Im sorry to make this issue public, but I have nothing to lose.
-Syz
(Normally, I would have posted this on TTI's own message boards, but I was hastily banned)
edited out the insult, please be respectful of others at all times -Eris Discordia
"Parting is such sweet sorrow."
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Nicholas Marshal
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Posted - 2004.02.12 23:52:00 -
[2]
Pirate.
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Eris Discordia
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Posted - 2004.02.13 00:57:00 -
[3]
Moved to the Corporation forum.
I ♥ my pink dreadnought of pwnage Mail [email protected] if you have any questions. |
Grinth Fealnon
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Posted - 2004.02.13 01:12:00 -
[4]
I cant say for sure that you are in m0o, but if you are not, then your name is no more than one letter different then someone who is in m0o. Either way you really cant blame a corporation for erring on the safe side. Commander Grinth: Logistics
"I have seen what power does, and I have seen what power costs. The one is never equal to the other."
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Kurenin
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Posted - 2004.02.13 01:25:00 -
[5]
This person is not in m0o. ----- [22:02] <Kurenin> anyhow, on a more serious note, what did you think of those ideas? [22:02] <Hammerhead> we can't do anything that requires programming
Inactivity wins you. |
Sassinak
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Posted - 2004.02.13 01:35:00 -
[6]
ok for all the stupid people in eve
Syzygy is in m0o
Syzygy Three is not.
if he wanted to spy in their corp, you think he would be retarded enough to use a name so close so his? much less, what would we have to gain from spying in tti? laff Sass Arcane Technologies |
Syzygy Three
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Posted - 2004.02.13 01:35:00 -
[7]
I can understand a corp erring on the side of caution. Usually this is accomplished during the application process.
But, does all this mean that any newbie that joins Eve should have a dialog box pop up warning him that his name is one character's distance from an existing m0o member's?
Also, wouldn't it be considered the use of griefing tactics if a corp known for piracy and being universally despised started making alts with names similar to those of players already in the game?
Somewhat rhetorical questions.
After having spoken with GunnyP himself concerning this matter, I further learned that, to avoid suspicion as a TTI recruit, you must:
1) make sure your ISP isn't coxnet or comcast.net; this is grounds for immediate suspicion. 2) don't ask questions about where mining ops are taking place (even if you signed on to be part of the mining operation); this will immediately raise a red flag. 3) if you've only been playing the game for a month or so, ACT LIKE A NEWB (even if you understand the game's mechanics) -- this is very important. Knowing too much (defined as knowing or asking questions about m0o) will prove to be your undoing. 4) Manifest an outgoing and socially gregarious manner, without which you will be assumed to be a faceless killer or spy.
I'm probably missing a few other important tips, since GunnyP couldn't or wouldn't willingly divulge what other fascinating bits of evidence he had mustered during his thorough investigation of yours truly.
-Syz
"Parting is such sweet sorrow."
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Azure Skyclad
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Posted - 2004.02.13 01:42:00 -
[8]
Ginger slag bag Sass La Maison de tous Les Plaisirs Star Fraction http://www.voodoorockers.co.uk/ |
Sassinak
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Posted - 2004.02.13 01:45:00 -
[9]
Quote: Ginger slag bag Sass
Sass Arcane Technologies |
Danton Marcellus
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Posted - 2004.02.13 01:49:00 -
[10]
The gain from spying on TTI using that obvious a name would have been instantaneous, using the map settings to get a good drop on their operations and taking a few names so from that perspective it really don't make any sense to first approve him then boot.
Convert Stations
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Doctor Angry
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Posted - 2004.02.13 01:49:00 -
[11]
Syzygy,
The sad fact is that, whether or not you are in m0o, TTi have probably taken the better safe than sorry route.
Thanks to the way this game has been running for quite a while now, no one trusts anyone anymore. The number of hangar thefts are on the increase, the number of spies are on the increase, and all people are doing is looking out for themselves.
It's seriously unfortunate that you are one of the many that ends up having to feel the mistrust inherent in this game, but thanks to may factors, including CCP refusing to help corps who have been ripped off by not giving them adequate tools and backup to track/identify hangar theives, this is going to continue. You're not the first this has happened to, and you're definately not going to be the last......and that SUCKS.
TTi are not the people to blame for this, CCP are. Quite frankly, the way that they withold information about hangar thieves and protect them, would be called "Obstructing The Course Of Justice" in RL....possibly even Harbouring a Known Criminal.
CCP wont even take a Role-Playing action. They COULD for example have CONCORD hunt the criminal or perform an undervocer op to steal the items back.....they have numerous options and wont take them....nice job.
Thanks to mistrust, and lack of CCP action, you may very well get treated like this again Syzygy, even though you are innocent.
To repsond to a couple of your points though:
1) GunnyP is reacting the same way a LOT of CEO's are acting right now. See above for reasons.
2) Yes. They very well might. Thay have done it to other corps in the past, and they'll probably do it again. Why do you think they are that successful? Spying IS part of the game, and while I dislike it, I can accept it. (Will NOT accept hangar thieves though.)
Doctor Angry BSC CEO
Campbells Condensed : A small double strength fart which, when combined with air, can produce enough to feed a whole room |
Skillz
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Posted - 2004.02.13 02:15:00 -
[12]
Teh Skillz trusts no one. Not even his IRL sister (well perhaps) and he never gets ripped off. EKEKEKEK
Keep on flaming, lamers.
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Reverend Necrona
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Posted - 2004.02.13 02:23:00 -
[13]
It's now a crime to be paranoid. Syzygy if ur not a spy then its just wrong place, wrong time. If you are then ur an newbie one that got caught. Reverend Necrona |
Syzygy Three
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Posted - 2004.02.13 03:32:00 -
[14]
Interesting responses (none from TTI though, which I find amusing -- and expected). I appreciate the candid viewpoints.
I would not want to be in a corp whose CEO blindly trusted new recruits; such a person would be a fool.
By the same token, if mistrust is the overriding sentiment expressed by all those who feel that they are in a position to lose something, especially if those in question are CEOs and directors, then CCP *should* do something about the matters that Doc Angry mentions.
Otherwise, why have the concept of player-run corporations in the game at all?
To TTI: If I was a suspected mole, why was I not fed disinformation? Are TTI's counter-intelligence services really that feeble? Is your imagination and experience dealing with such affairs so diminished as to be non-existent?
To potential TTI recruits: What I'm getting at here is, do you really want to join a corp that's going to can you on a whim and where you're guilty until proven innocent? Just something to think about.
-Syz
"Parting is such sweet sorrow."
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Reverend Necrona
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Posted - 2004.02.13 03:36:00 -
[15]
They don't need to explain themselves, in doing so they could reveal any counter-inteligence they obtain.
It's ok i do forgive u, ur probably new to this. Reverend Necrona |
Syzygy Three
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Posted - 2004.02.13 03:44:00 -
[16]
You're right, I am new to this.
I'm glad you're eager to forgive, as well as coming to the defense of preemptive tactics. As we see, those don't really work so well in the real world, and I can't imagine how they're going to benefit the online community.
-Syz
"Parting is such sweet sorrow."
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Enraku Reynolt
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Posted - 2004.02.13 04:00:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Enraku Reynolt on 13/02/2004 04:01:03 comcast is the biggest or second biggest cable company in the US you ban anyone through them you might wipe 75% of the US Eve pop ------------------------------------------------ Do not let the world change you. Change the world
Here's everything I know about war: somebody wins, somebody loses, and nothing is ever the sa |
Friday Dillinja
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Posted - 2004.02.13 04:09:00 -
[18]
You wouldnt be the first to get wrongfully fired for being a mole in TTI.. :)
Its a tradition.. just trust Omni :D ------------------------------------ retired. niwaie of Xanadu |
GunnyP
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Posted - 2004.02.13 04:37:00 -
[19]
I have a few things to say here.
The first being to Syzygy Three: If you are a legit char, you have my apologies. I was very busy tonight when I logged iną But I still stopped all the other conversations I had going on to give you my undivided attention. I tried to explain my view point on this issue. I tried to make you understand some of the things that Doc Angry explained above. I also tried to keep this a private matter with you. I saw no need to drag your name through the mud, on the off chance that you were not a mole. Which leads us to number twoą
Secondly: I donĘt have to justify my actions in this matter here on these forumsą because everyone else understands. Nor do I need to provide Proofą none is needed.
Corporation theft, moles and the like have made many CEOĘs a bit paranoid. Everything Doc Angry said is trueą ItĘs the nature of the game.
If I erred in this, I erred on the side of safety of my Corporation. I can accept this bit of bad publicity for the safety of my corporation and her members.
Regards,
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Syzygy Three
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Posted - 2004.02.13 05:21:00 -
[20]
GunnyP,
Thanks for the apology. Believe it or not, I fully understand why you acted the way you did.
Evidently, you have the support of other CEOs in this matter. I can't really fight 'common wisdom'.
Nevertheless, I'd like to point that in the real world, problems ensue from hastily acting upon faulty intelligence or suspicions and there's little reason for why that shouldn't be the case in this game.
I have nothing else to say in the matter.
-Syz
"Parting is such sweet sorrow."
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Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2004.02.13 06:07:00 -
[21]
Shame to say it but Gunny is absolutely correct.
Quote: Of course there is also the dread of false applicants. In a society such as our, where deciet and malfeasance has no proper rememdy, allowing a new person into a corporation is veiwed as near folly. The list of spies and thieves that join corporations is beyond my patience to recount.
"Soceity under the Spotlight: Recruiting of Young Pilots" by Shar Tegral
This story generated a number of responses, a press release, and even some fan fiction.
Corporate theft is probably the biggest most frustrating thing known to any person in a corporation in Eve.
Everything else beggars in comparison.
I remember some whacky e-mail I got many years ago about how much Micheal Jordan makes per hour, per minute, per second. And then beggared him in comparions to Bill Gates. The punch line was "nerds rule".
Well m0o, Biomass, SPVD, and heck every known alliance can start raping every industrial in flight for a week straight... Massive amounts of money.
A drop in the bucket compared to the corp thefts that have occurred.
Eve Guardian - Former Reporter
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Syzygy Three
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Posted - 2004.02.13 06:22:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Syzygy Three on 13/02/2004 06:23:50 I realize that corp theft is a problem. I strongly urge CCP to implement some of the better ideas put forth by their players concerning accountability and other in-game mechanisms that could be used to track down thieves and other criminals.
You might (or might not) be interested to know, that when I submitted my application to Taggart, the only function I requested to be able to perform was to be able to deploy/configure equipment in space. That's right, I didn't even request hangar access!
I strongly disbelieve that GunnyP's fears were motivated by my ability to perform corp theft, at least in the immediate.
Which is why it's still difficult for me to shake the feeling of having been victimized.
Should I feel flattered by the fact that as a 1.5 month old player, I was suspected of being a m0o alt?
-Syz
"Parting is such sweet sorrow."
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Robotek Hybrid
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Posted - 2004.02.13 06:56:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Robotek Hybrid on 13/02/2004 06:59:04 Edited by: Robotek Hybrid on 13/02/2004 06:58:30 well syzygy three all i can say is ... sucK it up and declare war on em after u got ur oWN corp no seriously u make good money from killing the rich and the richer.
Edit: ~ Get off me taquila was involved ~ Yea i bet ur wife says that every night --------------------------------------------
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Syzygy Three
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Posted - 2004.02.13 09:10:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Syzygy Three on 13/02/2004 09:32:56 Robotek,
You've got a point there! Why didn't I think of that before?!
/sarcasm off
-Syz
"Parting is such sweet sorrow."
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DREAMWORKS
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Posted - 2004.02.13 09:27:00 -
[25]
Maybe GunnyP was right after all then. __________________________
http://www.nin.com/visuals/thtf_hi.html |
Syzygy Three
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Posted - 2004.02.13 09:36:00 -
[26]
Dreamworks,
Edited my post (for your benefit).
Besides, don't you want your leader to be right? I mean, if he wasn't, hmm.. that would indicate.... ah, nvm.
Yeah, I'm 3v1l. Phear. Phear.
/sarcasm off
-Syz
"Parting is such sweet sorrow."
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EdRush
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Posted - 2004.02.13 13:20:00 -
[27]
gunny's got a magic hat to
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Luther Pendragon
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Posted - 2004.02.13 13:25:00 -
[28]
Sorry about what happened Syzygy Three, its a pity that the game mechanics have to generate such a degree of pranoia. Personally, I wouldnt have even minded if you were m0o or skillz or anyone else. I have my own thoughts on security policies, and you bring up good points as well. Fact is, theres no way to be sure that someone else is a spy and we kicked the wrong person out! But if Gunny P as CEO feels his corp is insecure, then he has no choice but to protect his corp and Im thankful for that.
And its not necessarily just corp theft (though you could theoretically run off with stuff from our secure cans as part of a mining op), but also forum propaganda which has been done before, and also defence information leaked to the enemy about times and places, such as convoy such and such is heading through A2 at this particular time. ____________________________________ Taggart wants YOU. Join TTi! *waves his hand in your face in the jedi way* |
Stavros
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Posted - 2004.02.13 14:39:00 -
[29]
DAMN MY PLANS FOILED AGAIN!?!!
:( --
"Keep On Flaming Lamers, Like Your Ships Did When We Ended You" |
Aerick Dawn
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Posted - 2004.02.13 15:51:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Aerick Dawn on 13/02/2004 15:52:56 What HHI does is pretty simple, if a member is caught stealing from the corp they are immediately expelled.
An audit is performed every 2 weeks or so on terminated members, then the CEO's of the corps they joined are notified of their illicit past.
During the interview process, we talk to their past ceo's about their behavior and why they left the previous corp.
This seems to keep a lid on the jerks from getting in. ______________________
What Aerick has been up to lately.. |
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