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flaming phantom Minmatar Tyrell Corp INTERDICTION	Posted - 2007.09.13 06:18:00 - [1] so i feel like learning one of these myself. there r plenty of guides on the internet, but im just stuck at what 1 to do? ive heard of C++, Python, java and others but i odnt know what 1 to learn. im not really sure as to what i want to do when i learn the programming language, probably just some random stuff kinda like a super basic game and such. was just wondeirg of u guys could maybe push me into the right direction?
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.09.13 08:27:00 - [2] Edited by: Dark Shikari on 13/09/2007 08:31:23 If you want something extremely easy to learn and do basic stuff that's very very easy to debug, use Python. You can even run commands on the command-line to test them out before you use them in code! You can learn basic Python in a few days, easily Then, learn basic C. It is not much different from Python, but it is more low-level and so it has some limitations, in particular that it doesn't have the extremely easy syntax of Python. For example, in Python you can literally do (2,3,4) + (5,6,7) and get (2,3,4,5,6,7). C doesn't even have an easy-to-manage primitive list like that, let alone the ability to "add" lists with nothing but an addition sign! The main reasons you need to learn C are: a) It contains few language-specific syntaxes and methodologies. b) It is the language of choice when you need to write a simple program that runs fast. c) Open source programs, which are your only real chance to try your skills on something bigger without actually writing something bigger or getting a real programming job, are mostly in C these days. Once you know C, then you can go pick up Java or another more modern and complicated programming language and learn its intricacies. C itself is very simple by comparison to Java, which has thousands and thousands of built-in libraries and methods and a complex structure. This is all extremely useful to an experienced programmer, but to the new programmer, its better to learn how to program without such tools first, and then once one knows how to program, to learn how to use such tools to program better. Now on the other hand, if all you want to do is make a simple graphical game in a few hours with a mediocre interface and a slow graphics engine, start off with Java; you can easily copy-paste template code to do that. But that's stupid; one shouldn't program with the special tools that a language like Java offers until one actually knows how to program to begin with. 23 Member EVE Video makers: save bandwidth! Use the H.264 AutoEncoder! (updated)
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2007.09.13 08:35:00 - [3] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 13/09/2007 08:36:58 I disagree quite a bit with Dark Shikari on this. I dont believe you need to go all the way from low level languages like C and C++ and then move into Java and so on. It sounds like you just want to play around with some programming that is easy and gets quick results, right? I would recommend Visual Studio and starting doing a console application in C#. Its very easy, and you have tons of examples on the net. After that, you can move on to building graphical applications in C#. Drag and drop components onto a surface and write code for what will happen when interacting with them. For your first project, just make a game where the computer gives you a random number between 1 and 10 and you try to guess what it is. :) --- The Disclosure Project \| My UFO Thread (read it!)
Teh Hoodedclaw	Posted - 2007.09.13 08:55:00 - [4] Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 13/09/2007 08:31:23 If you want something extremely easy to learn and do basic stuff that's very very easy to debug, use Python. You can even run commands on the command-line to test them out before you use them in code! You can learn basic Python in a few days, easily Are there any decent guides for someone who has little programming knowledge?
Darwinia Minmatar	Posted - 2007.09.13 08:59:00 - [5] Play Colobots ------------------------ I don't believe in sigs.
ry ry StateCorp The State	Posted - 2007.09.13 09:07:00 - [6] dunno where your based, but here in the uk java developers are earning well over the odds at the moment, especially if they do the web thing. there's a fair demand for C# programming talent too.
Polonium 210	Posted - 2007.09.13 09:42:00 - [7] Well, one way or another, you'll have to know quite a few languages if you're going to live off it. I would recommend plain C (preferrable) or Pascal for the beginning, just to try and check if it is interesting work for you. If you get caught with it, try a bit of Assembler then, just to know what is really happening behind the lines of high-level languages. Then you can try Java or C# if you prefer writing a business applications (these are very easy languages if you have some experience in software development), or get deep into the horrors of C++ for such complicated things like game development etc, or move to web and learn php/perl/ASP.net and javascript . Also you'll have to know SQL, at least basic one. In 10 years of work you _will_ know wery well at least 4-5 programming languages, want you that or not.
Yao Shiu	Posted - 2007.09.13 11:05:00 - [8] Originally by: Darwinia Play Colobots hey, that looks pretty cool
Khalm Amarr PROGENITOR CORPORATION	Posted - 2007.09.13 12:17:00 - [9] I would also recomend C# for the following reasons -Its well documented and many examples on the net. -Easy to learn. -Fast results. Don't get bored with the same old command line examples. -You can use the best IDE(Integrated development environment) there is to code with it. (Visual Studio). -Visual Studio Express can be downloaded free from Microsoft website.
Cpt Placeholder	Posted - 2007.09.13 12:23:00 - [10] If you're serious about programming then learn C,C++ and Java. Otherwise to fool around you could go with C# I guess... but thats a pretty stupid language in my opinion, besides that it's owned by Microsoft and runs only on Windows as far as I know.
Warp away ITS A CIRCUS	Posted - 2007.09.13 12:55:00 - [11] English is pretty good, lots of people speak it.
Scorpyn Caldari Infinitus Odium The Church.	Posted - 2007.09.13 13:10:00 - [12] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alphabetical_list_of_programming_languages Just pick one I'd recommend C/C++ and/or Java, but different langages are good at different things. If you just want to try it out a bit then pascal is a reasonably good and fairly simple language, although I haven't actually tried to compile that in ages so I'm not sure which compiler to use. I'd recommend staying away from the windows specific stuff like C#. (I think it's possible to compile C# with gcc actually, but I'm not sure). 2007-07-19 20:26
Shinhan Phoenix Knights Dark Nebula Galactic Empire	Posted - 2007.09.13 13:19:00 - [13] Originally by: Cpt Placeholder ... you could go with C# I guess...it runs only on Windows as far as I know. Mono I would also recommend Python for a first language. -- Selling apples, 1 signature each. ѼѼѼѼѼѼѼ
Katabrok First Caldari Asguard Security Service Angels Of Discord	Posted - 2007.09.13 13:40:00 - [14] Edited by: Katabrok First on 13/09/2007 13:41:20 Man, If I were you, I would grab this book: The C programming language It¦s authors were the creators of the C language. Buy the bok and do the examples and the exercises. Then you go and get any of the C derived languages to play more, like C#, C++ and Java. I recommend C#. Katabrok, the space barbarian. I want the The Correct DreadÖ!!!!
flaming phantom Minmatar Tyrell Corp INTERDICTION	Posted - 2007.09.13 13:54:00 - [15] alright thx for the input guys. i think i will just start off with python, and if im still digging programming i can move onto something else.
Derovius Vaden	Posted - 2007.09.13 15:30:00 - [16] I disagree completely with the individuals who are suggesting that you start with C or C++ and than move into Java. Java is MUCH easier to learn Object Oriented styles in than C/C++, and its SYNTAX actually makes a little bit of sense when you look at it from a programming newbies standpoint. Yes, I understand that Java is pretty much useless for anything processor intensive, but it is a good learning tool. Classes, functions, inheritance and so forth is easy to do, and there is much more "free" tutorials and assistance with Java than there is for C or C++ in my opinion.
Frezik Brutor tribe	Posted - 2007.09.13 15:39:00 - [17] Originally by: Dark Shikari For example, in Python you can literally do (2,3,4) + (5,6,7) and get (2,3,4,5,6,7). I would have expected that statement to do matrix arithmetic rather than list appending. Operating overloading can be a trap like that. Originally by: Jim McGregor I dont believe you need to go all the way from low level languages like C and C++ and then move into Java and so on. Gotta learn C at some point, if only because someday you'll want to interface to a C library from another language, which usually requires at least a little bit of C knowledge. Originally by: Polonium 210 I would recommend plain C (preferrable) or Pascal for the beginning, just to try and check if it is interesting work for you. If you get caught with it, try a bit of Assembler then, just to know what is really happening behind the lines of high-level languages. I'd never recommend C or Assembly as first languages (and surly not Pascal). There's no reason to go that low-level from the beginning. Plus, they're only low-level from a hardware point of view, whereas you should be learning low-level from a computational point of view. And for that you want Lisp. (Though I wouldn't necessarily recommend that as a first language, either). Originally by: Cpt Placeholder Otherwise to fool around you could go with C# I guess... but thats a pretty stupid language in my opinion, besides that it's owned by Microsoft and runs only on Windows as far as I know. C# will run on a lot of platforms, though Windows.Form support (which holds a lot of the GUI stuff) isn't always available outside Windows. The runtime is generally faster and less memory-hungry than any Java runtimes, too. It has a few language features over Java, but still has an overengineered library that focuses more on OO-purity rather than good sense. In any case, if I had to choose, I'd pick C# over Java. To the OP, Python and Ruby are both excellent choices as first languages. OCaml would be a great second language, since learning to use a strong type system is a fantastic tool (a real strong type system, not those half-witted type systems they put in C/C++/C#/Java).
LaVista Vista Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.09.13 15:47:00 - [18] Theres no doubt. C# is the way forward Proud nublet of more public ISK than * CAP4U - The Plan
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.09.13 16:02:00 - [19] Originally by: Teh Hoodedclaw Originally by: Dark Shikari If you want something extremely easy to learn and do basic stuff that's very very easy to debug, use Python. You can even run commands on the command-line to test them out before you use them in code! You can learn basic Python in a few days, easily. Are there any decent guides for someone who has little programming knowledge? There must be, perhaps on Wikibooks, but I'd recommend a class if you can get one. Of course, most classes outside a good college/high school will probably be full of idiots, so perhaps Wikibooks is your only option to learning Python. The reason I suggest learning C as soon as possible is that if you learn any other language first, you'll get far too used to using its unique features and find yourself confused in other languages that don't have them. 23 Member EVE Video makers: save bandwidth! Use the H.264 AutoEncoder! (updated)
Fink Angel Caldari The Merry Men	Posted - 2007.09.13 16:16:00 - [20] Malbolge: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malbolge_programming_language But more seriously I wish I'd started at the beginning by learning C. That would be a very good starting block IMO. My mind is now clouded by tons of bits of different languages. What the man said above, the classic Kernighan & Ritchie book The C Programming Language is a very good start (they were the guys who wrote C!) IF you want a general grounding in what programming really involves, and what languages are suitable for what sort of thing, I'd recommend this: Absolute Beginner's Guide to Programming (2nd Edition)

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