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Warning for those thinking of doing this hidden concord mission.

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CampyloBacter Gallente Chlamydia Online	Posted - 2007.09.13 18:31:00 - [1] I recently scanned down a hidden agent representing concord in Mandoo. His name is jeremy Tacs and IIRC he was put into the game as a tribute to a well known Eve player who sadly died. The mission which is called something like 'A worthy task' or similar, involves a seven or eight stage room, the majority of which is very simple. The final stage has you destroying a drone mother and her escorts with the drone 'father' there dropping an important item for completion of another Cosmos mission. anyway I was progressing nicely on the final room albeit slowly, in my Ishtar (yeah I know should've used a domi), when four yellow-highlighted BS jump in and then proceed to obliterate the drone 'father' and other mission targets with great precision and purpose as sure as anything knowing exactly what they were after. Sure enough after some time (it's quite a tough stage) they looted the essential items and ****ed off. Clearly leaving me in something of a quandary. I had no hope of completing the mission and was hardly going to have much luck saying 'please Mr complex farmers, could I please pay you for my essential mission item that you inadvertently picked up?' I asked for advice with a petition, since shortly after the complex despawned and I had no chance of completing the mission. The response was that There was no way I could receive any support with this and that I'd have to ask the complex farmers (who evidently wait for some poor bastard to turn up and start the mission and then move in to swipe the essential stuff) to please give back the item(s). I thus failed the mission and lost 1.1 in sec status. I'm not so p1ssed about that since it makes little difference to me, but I do wanna warn others who might think of doing this mission that there may be little point, and you may end up losing a damn big chunk of concord standing for nothing. It seems like the item dropped by the drone BS is quite a lucrative thing and is worth them taking the time to probe you out and take over the mission. From their co-ordination, it did look like they've done this before.
Sofring Eternus	Posted - 2007.09.13 19:12:00 - [2] Seriously, its ** like this that **es me off, and there are two fairly easy fixes Remove the faction/rare item from the spawns and add it to the mission rewards Remove the faction/rare item and allow multiple runs of that mission. The only current counters to behavior by the complex farmers are: If in lowsec bring friends to gank the thiefs If in high sec bring a fleet to remote rep the mother/father ships until the thiefs give up Continue tanking the spawns for the theifs and have an alt zoom in and steal from the wreck before the theifs can.
CampyloBacter Gallente Chlamydia Online	Posted - 2007.09.13 19:34:00 - [3] yeah even though this has a varying location (as far as I know), because it is a tribute agent, he's fixed by system and thus acts just like a more 'fixed' complex. So it's a fairly easy job to probe out runners especially solo ones, and take over the mission (this is in 0.5 BTW). I figured that the best way to stop these asswholes would be to tell as many people as possible about the mission so that it gets swamped by enough people to make it not worth the complex farmers' while, or to warn solo-ers not to bother with it. I would have been really p1ssed if I had very little sec status and this mission failure had made me firmly negative.
Annuke Caldari	Posted - 2007.09.13 19:52:00 - [4] Edited by: Annuke on 13/09/2007 19:52:01 The problem with this agent's mission is a beacon appears in overview to hive when the mission starts. So anyone in system can duke it out in plex without doing any scanning. I did this with some well known Cosmos players and am sure a report has been filed. Once you do this, you will never forget the MotherDrone
CampyloBacter Gallente Chlamydia Online	Posted - 2007.09.13 19:57:00 - [5] The mother drone on this final stage is a bigger ***** than my wife
Nyphur Pillowsoft Total Comfort	Posted - 2007.09.13 20:53:00 - [6] I KNEW he existed. I knew it! I got his name and went to the system but couldn't find squat. Eve-Tanking.com - We're sorry, something happened.
Rhaegor Stormborn Pestilent Industries Amalgamated	Posted - 2007.09.13 22:32:00 - [7] CCP needs to get their act together. Rhaegor Stormborn Fleet Admiral - Pestilent Industries Amalgamated [PIA] Recruitment Thread
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2007.09.14 06:08:00 - [8] Originally by: CampyloBacter It seems like the item dropped by the drone BS is quite a lucrative thing and is worth them taking the time to probe you out and take over the mission. From their co-ordination, it did look like they've done this before. Unless it has changed, they have no need to probe you. When the complex is generated by accepting the mission it become visible to all people in system. Sometime, on the overview, you can see 2 mission spawned complex at the same time in system. Can you give names and corporation so we at least know who to avoid when we get the mission?
Hugh Ruka Caldari Free Traders	Posted - 2007.09.14 07:13:00 - [9] I would bug report this. Any mission you get from an agent should be specified by bookmarks and not a publicly visible beacon. This seems like something that was overlooked/forgotten. Originally by: Aravel Thon Originally by: Nith Batoxxx Hi my alt just leanred to fly the ferox............... I am so so terribly sorry...
Nyphur Pillowsoft Total Comfort	Posted - 2007.09.14 07:48:00 - [10] Originally by: Hugh Ruka I would bug report this. Any mission you get from an agent should be specified by bookmarks and not a publicly visible beacon. This seems like something that was overlooked/forgotten. No. It's intended and quite common with agents in space. These aren't missions offered by agents that are in a station, they're ones offered by Agents In Space, a special type of agent that you find scattered throughout eve (hidden away) and in the COSMOS constellations. Eve-Tanking.com - We're sorry, something happened.
Contralto Gallente A Peaceful Mining Corp	Posted - 2007.09.14 11:42:00 - [11] Edited by: Contralto on 14/09/2007 11:44:15 Lol and at least one farmer is busy posting in this Thread, I have regularly seen him hanging around the cosmos constellation, and selling multiple items of the same drop for several hundred mill per item
TrulyKosh Solo for UNCLE Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2007.09.14 14:10:00 - [12] Edited by: TrulyKosh on 14/09/2007 14:10:30 Originally by: CampyloBacter I recently scanned down a hidden agent representing concord in Mandoo. His name is jeremy Tacs and IIRC he was put into the game as a tribute to a well known Eve player who sadly died. http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=385957 I'm sure he would have hated to have what happened to you related to his name :( I only invest in businesses that even a fool can run. Because some day a fool will. (Warren Buffett)
Randolf Sightblinder Ex Coelis	Posted - 2007.09.14 15:07:00 - [13] Really I would consider this griefing. The item is required to complete a HIGH SEC mission, yet can be stolen in a manner that leaves the mission runner no recourse to recover the item.' At least in .4 or less you could kill the farmers if you had friends but in .5 you can't. Earlier I remember comments that stealing mission required loot was considered griefing already but maybe I'm not remembering correctly. Farming open public complexes fine, farming lowsec or no sec complexes fine. But dening someone a mission required item in a mission or complex that is spawned for that mission in HIGH SEC should be considered griefing and the EvE GM's/devs/policy makers seriously need to take a look at some of these things involving restricted items, one off missions, and player interaction where the players can't fend for themselves because of concord rules. Randolf Sightblinder
CampyloBacter Gallente Chlamydia Online	Posted - 2007.09.14 17:14:00 - [14] Originally by: Randolf Sightblinder Really I would consider this griefing. The item is required to complete a HIGH SEC mission, yet can be stolen in a manner that leaves the mission runner no recourse to recover the item.' At least in .4 or less you could kill the farmers if you had friends but in .5 you can't. Earlier I remember comments that stealing mission required loot was considered griefing already but maybe I'm not remembering correctly. Farming open public complexes fine, farming lowsec or no sec complexes fine. But dening someone a mission required item in a mission or complex that is spawned for that mission in HIGH SEC should be considered griefing and the EvE GM's/devs/policy makers seriously need to take a look at some of these things involving restricted items, one off missions, and player interaction where the players can't fend for themselves because of concord rules. Randolf Sightblinder Well I was certainly powerless to do anything about this. Even if I'd had a gang of 12 BS with me, we couldn't have taken any enforcing action to protect the mission loot. But the petition response was that there was no bug and I'd have to contact those involved and begthem for the item, paying if necessary. If it's the case that the complex becomes visible once accepted, I really think it's an open invitation to people intent upon hanging around and waiting for some unsuspecting player to start the mission with the express intention of removing their chances of completing it. I can see how this could be interpreted as griefing. BTW I'm afraid I can't recall the people involved but they know who they are.
CampyloBacter Gallente Chlamydia Online	Posted - 2007.09.14 17:27:00 - [15] Originally by: Nyphur I KNEW he existed. I knew it! I got his name and went to the system but couldn't find squat. So Nyph, you gonna go an do the mish?? Better luck with it than me!
Gridcrash Redline Industries	Posted - 2007.09.14 18:34:00 - [16] To be perfectly honest, all of these COSMOS and faction missions are a blight on EVE. Whomever designed them should be fired and sent back to SOE or whatever company they came from previously, so they can inflict their garbage missions on players used to and approving of such time wasting idiocy. If you've never done a COSMOS mission, most involve farming static dungeons. You are generally asked to retrieve a certain number of an item, the total of which almost never appears in only one spawn. Several different missions will use the same static complex, usually having you looking for different items, though in some cases you're farming the same items a second or even third time. As you can imagine, there are some people who make a living farming these complexes, so you either need to buy from them, or spend days hoping the farmers leave long enough for you to get a handful of what you need. Invariably, you will either need to use walkthroughs so you know exactly what you need BEFORE starting the mission--since it is nearly impossible to complete most of these missions before time runs out--or simply buy from the farmers, thus helping perpetuate the problem. Some of these missions have you looking across an entire constellation for a random loot drop so rare that if the item is found on contract, it is often 100m isk or more--for an item needed for a level 2 mission! Unfortunately, COSMOS missions are the only practical way to get high faction standings, so anyone who needs those high standings are forced to either endure the COSMOS insanity, or simply grind away at hundreds upon hundreds of "normal" missions. COSMOS Missions -- Not in MY EVE! -Grid
Lazuran Gallente Time And ISK Sink Corporation	Posted - 2007.09.14 19:00:00 - [17] Last time I checked, this was petitionable (griefing) ... Has this changed? isn't it funny how some people advocate both GTC<=>ISK trades and EVE being superior due to its cruelty and costly losses, when they use the former to circumvent the latter?
Nyphur Pillowsoft Total Comfort	Posted - 2007.09.14 22:44:00 - [18] Originally by: Lazuran Last time I checked, this was petitionable (griefing) ... Has this changed? That was with normal missions. Scanning someone down in highsec in a normal mission, invading the mission and taking mission-critical but worthless loot purely for your own amusement is griefing. However, the moment you try to sell it back to them or to someone else, it's no longer griefing as you're in it for the profit. Additionally, this is NOT a normal mission. People seem to be completely overlooking the fact that this is an agent-in-space mission that spawns a public complex with a beacon and everything. They aren't scanning you down and going out of their way just to annoy other players, they're competing for completion of a 5/10 complex. I can't find the agent with the built-in scanner and didn't find it with probes, though I didn't use exploration probes. Bah. Eve-Tanking.com - We're sorry, something happened.
Arain	Posted - 2007.09.14 23:35:00 - [19] Just another example of poorly thought out game mechanics. The game developers have decided that mission runners should have next to no chance of a useful or valuable item dropping in a normal mission. But they are willing to put a item in a mission like this, which they then advertise to anyone insystem so they can come steal it. And then penalize the person who originally spawned the mission by makeing him lose status over the failure to complete.
CampyloBacter Gallente Chlamydia Online	Posted - 2007.09.15 01:27:00 - [20] Originally by: Arain Just another example of poorly thought out game mechanics. The game developers have decided that mission runners should have next to no chance of a useful or valuable item dropping in a normal mission. But they are willing to put a item in a mission like this, which they then advertise to anyone insystem so they can come steal it. And then penalize the person who originally spawned the mission by makeing him lose status over the failure to complete. Well it feels that way to me atm... But many cosmos missions do have global access, although I'm struggling to understand who that benefits apart from complex farmers, who, IMHO don't contribute a whole lot to the greater good (except their own wallets of course). I'm not sure how you could fight complex farmers without hurting legit mission runners tho...
Lazuran Gallente Time And ISK Sink Corporation	Posted - 2007.09.15 11:21:00 - [21] Originally by: Nyphur Originally by: Lazuran Last time I checked, this was petitionable (griefing) ... Has this changed? That was with normal missions. Scanning someone down in highsec in a normal mission, invading the mission and taking mission-critical but worthless loot purely for your own amusement is griefing. However, the moment you try to sell it back to them or to someone else, it's no longer griefing as you're in it for the profit. Additionally, this is NOT a normal mission. People seem to be completely overlooking the fact that this is an agent-in-space mission that spawns a public complex with a beacon and everything. They aren't scanning you down and going out of their way just to annoy other players, they're competing for completion of a 5/10 complex. It doesn't matter whether this is a "normal" mission or not, the problem is that this behaviour prevents people from completing a mission and thus causes them to lose standings. If it was only about loss of profit, I'd understand that it's not petitionable griefing, but this is different. If the problem is that the beacon is public, then that should be considered a bug and fixed. isn't it funny how some people advocate both GTC<=>ISK trades and EVE being superior due to its cruelty and costly losses, when they use the former to circumvent the latter?
Nyphur Pillowsoft Total Comfort	Posted - 2007.09.15 17:55:00 - [22] Originally by: Lazuran If the problem is that the beacon is public, then that should be considered a bug and fixed. Whether it should be public or not is up for discussion and if you do think that it should be changed, bring the issue up in Features and Ideas Discussion. I personally think it's an interesting quirk and should stay but even if it doesn't, you must understand that it's not a bug. Things like this don't happen by accident and don't go untested, this game mechanic is intentional even if you think it should be changed and is therefore not a bug. Eve-Tanking.com - We're sorry, something happened.
CampyloBacter Gallente Chlamydia Online	Posted - 2007.09.15 21:21:00 - [23] Well I can't really see an overwhelming argument in favour of having these complexes visible to all whilst they're in progress, especially in >=0.5 sec because there's simply no way of preventing people from spoiling the mission if they choose to. Failing this mission carries a fairly heavy Concord standing loss; it literally is a lose-lose situation. If my own inaction/naivety/stupidity had brought it about then I'd hold my hand up.

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