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Corruption Stopper
Valiant Logistics Inc.
EternalRising
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Posted - 2007.09.14 14:21:00 -
[1]
Is it just a oversight that the Nighthawk does not get a Command Ship Skill bonus for Heavy Assault Missle. All the other race command ship's get a bonus to both long range and close range turret Modules. While the Nighthawk gets BattleCrusier skill bonus to Rate of fire for assault missile, heavy assault missile and heavy missile launcher . It only gets a Command Ship Skill bonus to heavy missles.
i do understand that heavy assaults are unguided for some reason but the Kinetic bonus only applies to Heavy Missles.
I also understand that Heavy Assault Missles are pretty new to Eve and are curious if this was just a oversight by Dev's
Thank you for your time and i patiently wait for your responce
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HeadWar
Minmatar
North Star Networks
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Posted - 2007.09.14 14:41:00 -
[2]
Compare the bonus to, for example, the Muninn's optimal range bonus, which in essence is an artillery bonus.
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Corruption Stopper
Valiant Logistics Inc.
EternalRising
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Posted - 2007.09.14 15:20:00 -
[3]
Munnin is a heavy assult ship not a field command ship my piont is all other races have bonuses affecting both long range and close range modules. This could be a simple oversight since the Nighthawk was around long before the Heavy Assault
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Amy Wang
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Posted - 2007.09.15 02:27:00 -
[4]
Sleipnir is a command ship and gets a falloff bonus which is basically a autocannon bonus and isnt all that useful for artillery as well
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HeadWar
Minmatar
North Star Networks
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Posted - 2007.09.15 03:35:00 -
[5]
Compare the bonus to, for example, the Vulture's optimal range bonus, which in essence is a railgun bonus.
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Devian 666
Sectoid Technologies
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Posted - 2007.09.15 05:14:00 -
[6]
Looking at all the field command ships only the command bonus only applies at one range or another with the only exception being the absolution.
The nighthawk does get a rof bonus to assault missles at very least.
I agree I don't have the features to be a holoreel star.
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Aramendel
Amarr
Coreli Corporation
Exuro Mortis
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Posted - 2007.09.15 10:11:00 -
[7]
 Originally by: Amy Wang
Sleipnir is a command ship and gets a falloff bonus which is basically a autocannon bonus and isnt all that useful for artillery as well
True, however its command ship damage bonus DOES apply on artillery as well.
The nighthawks precision AND damage bonus does not apply on HAMs.
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HeadWar
Minmatar
North Star Networks
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Posted - 2007.09.15 14:14:00 -
[8]
Anyway, it's not an oversight, the Nighthawk wasn't meant to have a Command Ship bonus to short range weapons, or it would have had a bonus to Assault Launchers, which it does not. And those were certainly available when the Nighthawk was conceived. Also, it's not like they just forgot about the HAMs, since they added the bonus for them to the BC skill.
QED.
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Gypsio III
Darkness Inc.
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Posted - 2007.09.15 14:26:00 -
[9]
Just running some numbers here... assuming max skills, 5% HAM damage and ROF implants, 6x HAM II with Kin Fury, 5 hobgoblin IIs and 5x BCS II  , a NH gets 840 DPS.
If the kin damage bonus applied to HAMs also, it would get 1025 DPS, which could very likely bet considered overpowered... 
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Aramendel
Amarr
Coreli Corporation
Exuro Mortis
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Posted - 2007.09.15 14:51:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Aramendel on 15/09/2007 14:53:59
Originally by: Gypsio III
Just running some numbers here... assuming max skills, 5% HAM damage and ROF implants, 6x HAM II with Kin Fury, 5 hobgoblin IIs and 5x BCS II , a NH gets 840 DPS.
If the kin damage bonus applied to HAMs also, it would get 1025 DPS, which could very likely bet considered overpowered...
Uhm..what?
It would get without drones 739 dps WITH the kin bonus, not without. Without the kin bonus it gets 591 dps before drones.
Originally by: HeadWar
Anyway, it's not an oversight, the Nighthawk wasn't meant to have a Command Ship bonus to short range weapons, or it would have had a bonus to Assault Launchers, which it does not. And those were certainly available when the Nighthawk was conceived. Also, it's not like they just forgot about the HAMs, since they added the bonus for them to the BC skill.
Noooo?
The NH already existed for ages before HAMs were introduced. Its change to the ROF bnus was also before HAMs.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2007.09.15 15:04:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Corruption Stopper
i do understand that heavy assaults are unguided for some reason but the Kinetic bonus only applies to Heavy Missles.
Yeah, the precision bonus would be useless, HAMs always have the same explosion radius no matter what skills, implants or rigs you have on.
However, in case the kinetic damage bonus does actually not apply to HAMs (instead of being just a "typo" in the description), that's definetely an oversight, and should be corrected ASAP.
_
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Gypsio III
Darkness Inc.
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Posted - 2007.09.15 17:01:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Gypsio III on 15/09/2007 17:01:24
Originally by: Aramendel
Edited by: Aramendel on 15/09/2007 14:53:59
Originally by: Gypsio III
Just running some numbers here... assuming max skills, 5% HAM damage and ROF implants, 6x HAM II with Kin Fury, 5 hobgoblin IIs and 5x BCS II , a NH gets 840 DPS.
If the kin damage bonus applied to HAMs also, it would get 1025 DPS, which could very likely bet considered overpowered...
Uhm..what?
It would get without drones 739 dps WITH the kin bonus, not without. Without the kin bonus it gets 591 dps before drones.
Oops.
I was looking at volley damage in EFT, lol.
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Aramendel
Amarr
Coreli Corporation
Exuro Mortis
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Posted - 2007.09.15 19:50:00 -
[13]
Because EFT is doing what eve should do as well: using the kin bonus.
Of cource, if you let it do the calculations instead doing them manually yourself you'll never know that...
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HeadWar
Minmatar
North Star Networks
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Posted - 2007.09.16 04:12:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Aramendel
Originally by: HeadWar
Anyway, it's not an oversight, the Nighthawk wasn't meant to have a Command Ship bonus to short range weapons, or it would have had a bonus to Assault Launchers, which it does not. And those were certainly available when the Nighthawk was conceived. Also, it's not like they just forgot about the HAMs, since they added the bonus for them to the BC skill.
Noooo?
The NH already existed for ages before HAMs were introduced. Its change to the ROF bnus was also before HAMs.
Ok, I'll say it again, slowly.
The Nighthawk did not have a Command Ships Skill bonus to short range missiles (Assault Missile Launchers) before HAMs were in the game. When HAMs were introduced, they were added to the list of the Nighthawk's basic bonus, but not to it's Command Ships bonus.
Thus, I think it's quite safe to assume that the developers did not intend the Nighthawk to be a short range boat, but a long range one. (Except of course heavy missiles are equally effective at short and long range.)
You might not want it to be this way, but that's a different matter.
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Aramendel
Amarr
Coreli Corporation
Exuro Mortis
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Posted - 2007.09.16 08:42:00 -
[15]
Originally by: HeadWar
The Nighthawk did not have a Command Ships Skill bonus to short range missiles (Assault Missile Launchers) before HAMs were in the game. When HAMs were introduced, they were added to the list of the Nighthawk's basic bonus, but not to it's Command Ships bonus.
Actually, no.
Missile ROF seems to be an universal flag which effects both HAMs and HMLs. There is no "heavy missile ROF" stat but only a "cruiser sized missile" ROF stat. You can see this for example on the sacriledge whose ROF bonus still effects HMLs even though it is stated to be a specialized short range missile ship.
The ROF bonus never needed any changing, it worked right from the start. Damage bonuses on the other hand are, if limited, specific.
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Sasha Evergreen
Gallente
Sand Castle Generals
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Posted - 2007.09.16 09:10:00 -
[16]
It's sad that the only thing making command ships what they are supposed to be are their tanks and gang mods.
Their weapons should be seriously nerfed, they aren't assault vehicles, but yeah I imagine it's fun flying them.
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Kazamidori
Division 9 Golden Leaves
Izanagi Alliance
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Posted - 2007.09.16 22:17:00 -
[17]
Aside from the EOS, fleet CS (the one that's supposed to be for the cmd. mods) are all average in term of firepower.
Anyways, regarding NH's bonus.
When NH got 'fixed' a while back, there has been a large complaint as to how missile precision bonus is not really a bonus worth a damn.
The reason is the following;
-Heavy missiles already have small enough explosion radius that the bonus would not matter vs. cruisers (intended target).
-Precision heavies, which are intended to be used against frigate/destroyer class targets, does not benefit much from the said explosion radius of precision bonus.
-Interceptors using MWD have signature radius larger than 100m^2 at the least. Heavy missiles has 100^2m radius w/o any bonus aside from player skill at level4. Destroyers are out of the question as a default.
Now, with that being said, the major thing HM (or any anti-small ship missiles) need in order to counter small ships is not the explosion radius bonus, but rather the missile velocity and the explosion velocity.
Currently, the only target NH really benefit from the missile precision bonus are the non-MWDing frigates or destroyers (almost none of them). A non-MWDing frigs and dessies are relatively easy to kill with other ship btw.
NH would do a bit better with something like a velocity bonus so it can spam precision missiles at a longer range (and actually hit inties going faster than 5km/s), or missile explosion bonus.
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Izanagi Alliance |
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CCP Lingorm
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Posted - 2007.09.17 10:17:00 -
[18]
The bonus is applied to Heavy Assault missiles as well. The description is wrong and will be updated.
CCP Lingorm
CCP Quality Assurance
QA Engineering Team Leader
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HeadWar
Minmatar
North Star Networks
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Posted - 2007.09.17 15:41:00 -
[19]
Edited by: HeadWar on 17/09/2007 15:42:44
Then why doesn't it also get a damage bonus to Assault Launchers? Granted, the Assault Launcher is a bit of the odd man out at the moment, being a cruiser sized weapon that uses frig sized ammo, but still.
It's a bit like giving the Sleipnir damage bonus to arties and 425mm ACs...
Edit: Come to think of it, the Claymore already has that, in a fashion, with the tracking bonus. The smaller ACs already have decent tracking, and thus doesn't benefit that much from the tracking bonus, while the arties and large ACs do. Ah well.
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LeGlt
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.09.17 17:11:00 -
[20]
It would be soooo much easier (de ja vu?) if instead of listing each type of missile launcher they just stated it got bonuses to missile launchers? The damned thing can fit so many types and apply the bonus to those it can't woke make a single bit of difference, because it wouldn't have CPU/PG for them anyway.
__________________________
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Gypsio III
Darkness Inc.
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Posted - 2007.09.17 19:34:00 -
[21]
Quote:
NH would do a bit better with something like a velocity bonus so it can spam precision missiles at a longer range (and actually hit inties going faster than 5km/s), or missile explosion bonus.
A missile explosion velocity bonus would be very useful in these days of nanogangs and polycarbon inties, certainly more useful than the missile precision bonus. The new Heretic has an explosion velocity bonus, so it seems that the devs are aware of what's necessary to hit such inties...
The other annoying thing about the NH is its gimped PG. With max skills, to fit a standard active close-range fit of gang mod, HAM IIs, LSB II, named med cap booster and named MWD requires 3 RCU IIs! Swapping the cap booster and LSB for LSE IIs for a passive tank doesn't help, you still need 3 RCU IIs.
Even a basic fit of HMs, MWD and gang mod is already over your PG by 70! To fit a passive tank of 2 LSE IIs on top of that would require 2 RCU IIs; alternatively, an active tank of LSB II and med cap booster would require 2 RCU IIs and 2 PDS IIs! 
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Ferocious FeAr
Eternity INC.
Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2007.09.17 23:40:00 -
[22]
Yeah the secondary command ship bonus is kinda useless as people are faster than 5km a sec nowadays. :(
Don't hate me, learn to love me |
kimish
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Posted - 2007.09.18 14:49:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Corruption Stopper
Munnin is a heavy assult ship not a field command ship my piont is all other races have bonuses affecting both long range and close range modules. This could be a simple oversight since the Nighthawk was around long before the Heavy Assault
ehhh.... amarr don't have that on khanid ^^
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"When the moderators are gone, the trolls dances on the table." |
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CCP Lingorm
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Posted - 2007.09.18 16:03:00 -
[24]
Actually it is applied to Assault missiles too.
Again mistake in the description not in the bonus.
CCP Lingorm
CCP Quality Assurance
QA Engineering Team Leader
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Steffie Mc
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Posted - 2007.09.18 17:06:00 -
[25]
What about the damnation and sacrilage bonus? Is that only to heavy assaults or does it apply to heavy missiles to?
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Haffrage
Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams
Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2007.09.18 18:09:00 -
[26]
I always assumed it was because assault missiles are frigate missiles, and a CS dishing out missiles against frigates might be overpowered. Just a little.
But I guess not
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William Alex
Viscosity
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Posted - 2007.09.18 19:15:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Steffie Mc
What about the damnation and sacrilage bonus? Is that only to heavy assaults or does it apply to heavy missiles to?
I belive they stated that it was specifically for heavy assults for a reason.
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