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Fix Lag
234
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Posted - 2012.01.19 17:07:00 -
[1] - Quote
...than subcaps when it comes to warp disruption and ECM. Currently, a subcap (aside from a hictor with a specialized module loaded with a focusing script) cannot hold a supercapital down or jam its sensors.
CCP, you have stated you want to treat supercapitals like other ships, and that you want more of them to die. You can accomplish both of these things by giving supercapitals a set sensor strength and a role bonus to warp strength, like blockade runners have. Carriers can be jammed: they have sensor strengths ranging from 68 to 80 (or something like that, I can't be arsed to look up the exact numbers). Supercapitals...nope, can't do anything to those. Can't warp scramble them with 50 hurricanes. Can't jam them with 20 falcons. Can't do squat against them except call in your own supercaps and hictors or a hideously large subcap fleet to try and kill them.
Make supercapitals like all the other ships in the game. Give them a high sensor strength so they can be jammed, but rarely. Give them a warp strength so that regular subcapitals can, in large enough numbers, tackle them. Failing that, give us a good reason why you won't do either of those things. |
Bane Loppknow
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
32
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Posted - 2012.01.19 17:54:00 -
[2] - Quote
I actually like this idea. |
Azitek
Astrum Tech
Pina Colada Armada
33
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Posted - 2012.01.19 17:57:00 -
[3] - Quote
This exact idea was presented in the CSM minutes. Rest assured CCP has heard this proposal before. |
Tobias Sjodin
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
80
|
Posted - 2012.01.19 18:04:00 -
[4] - Quote
Fix Lag wrote:...than subcaps when it comes to warp disruption and ECM. Currently, a subcap (aside from a hictor with a specialized module loaded with a focusing script) cannot hold a supercapital down or jam its sensors.
ECM is a absolutely ******** game-mechanism to begin with, but keeping a 80+billion permajammed with 500K worth of EC-drones would be absolutely hilarious. The entire point of HICs are to stop supercaps, having a single ceptor being able to lock down a titan is a terrible idea.
Quote:
CCP, you have stated you want to treat supercapitals like other ships, and that you want more of them to die.
Killing supercaps isn't exactly difficult. You know.
Quote:
You can accomplish both of these things by giving supercapitals a set sensor strength and a role bonus to warp strength, like blockade runners have. Carriers can be jammed: they have sensor strengths ranging from 68 to 80 (or something like that, I can't be arsed to look up the exact numbers).
Or just learn to play the game, use the tactics that are readily available to you.
Quote:
Supercapitals...nope, can't do anything to those. Can't warp scramble them with 50 hurricanes. Can't jam them with 20 falcons. Can't do squat against them except call in your own supercaps and hictors or a hideously large subcap fleet to try and kill them.
If you bring 50 hurricanes to kill a supercap and leave the hics at home, you should just purge your characters right now. If you can't kill a supercap with 50 people, it isn't the game that is broken. It's you.
Quote:
Make supercapitals like all the other ships in the game. Give them a high sensor strength so they can be jammed, but rarely. Give them a warp strength so that regular subcapitals can, in large enough numbers, tackle them. Failing that, give us a good reason why you won't do either of those things.
The good reason why they don't is that it is way too easy to tackle or jam something, especially something that huge.
Ronald Reagan: I do not like Sweden, they support communism.
Minister: Sir, but Sweden are anti-communist, Sir.-á
Ronald Reagan: I do not care what kind of communists they are. |
Fix Lag
234
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Posted - 2012.01.19 18:13:00 -
[5] - Quote
Tobias Sjodin wrote:Killing supercaps isn't exactly difficult. You know.
notsureifserious.jpg
Tobias Sjodin wrote:If you bring 50 hurricanes to kill a supercap and leave the hics at home, you should just purge your characters right now.
It's more of people bringing supercaps to kill 50 hurricanes, safe in the knowledge that said canes can't pin them down.
Tobias Sjodin wrote:The good reason why they don't is that it is way too easy to tackle or jam something, especially something that huge.
Aaaaand it's like you didn't read what the CSM said or what I said at all. Supers should be vulnerable to groups of subcaps. This would make that happen.
The reason I wrote this on GD was because A: it's a pretty good idea when you make supercapitals in line with the difference between battleships and capitals, and B: it seems as though 99% of the people posting on this forum are illiterate and didn't read the 43 pages of CSM minutes (and 1 page of credits). |
Vyl Vit
Cambio Enterprises
232
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Posted - 2012.01.19 19:00:00 -
[6] - Quote
I never read what CSMs say. They're a figment of their imaginations. Only CCP thinks they're real.
Anyone with any sense has already left town. |
Mag's
the united
Negative Ten.
5176
|
Posted - 2012.01.19 19:12:00 -
[7] - Quote
I do think that supercarriers should have a module that can point another supers, but that's it.
CCP Zulu.....
Forcing players to dock at the captain's quarters is a form of what we actually wanted to get through, which is making Incarna a seamless part of the EVE Online experience. |
Chandaris
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
49
|
Posted - 2012.01.19 19:12:00 -
[8] - Quote
+1
'invulnerable to ECM and electronic warfare' is ridiculous.. Give supercaps (and titans) a bonus to warp core stability and big sensor strengths
It's really lame that there is no way to catch these things unless you have a HIC pilot online. Hics should be about bubbles and infinipoint, as it is they are purely supercapitol catching machines (in lowsec) |
cpu939
OffBeat Creations
14
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Posted - 2012.01.19 19:22:00 -
[9] - Quote
Fix Lag wrote:Tobias Sjodin wrote:Killing supercaps isn't exactly difficult. You know. notsureifserious.jpg Tobias Sjodin wrote:If you bring 50 hurricanes to kill a supercap and leave the hics at home, you should just purge your characters right now. It's more of people bringing supercaps to kill 50 hurricanes, safe in the knowledge that said canes can't pin them down.
50 cane should be able to get away from the super caps if there are no bubbles even if there is.
warp out /jump gate.
atm with an sc you only need to kill 20-30 fighters, keep moving kill the fighter sc is helpless, the alpha from your 50 canes should kill the fighters.
also you might be lucky and the sc has fighter bombers, not going to do much to your canes.
the point to the hic (sorry bad pun i know) was to stop supers in low sec if you make it o all ship can point a super you basicly remove one of theroles of the hic
|
Fon Revedhort
Monks of War
DarkSide.
107
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Posted - 2012.01.19 19:42:00 -
[10] - Quote
Yeap, ecm invul is one of the most stupid decisions ever made.
As for built-in WCS, I'm stricktly against giving supers anything in this regard. You know, no-one prevents them from fitting WCS's if they so please.
The reason why I'm against is that supers are much more likely to be dropped on lesser numbers rather that large ones - since blob already is a threat to them and might already contain a hictor or two. Small gang or a soloer is of no threat to them, thus they can easily engage being sure there's no risk involved.
TL;DR: reasonable sensor strength (50-100 at max); no built-in warp-core stabs whatsoever.
2008, CCP Zulu(park): "command ships are fine as is"
2011, CCP Greyscale: "is the Nighthawk actually underpowered?"
Nice progress, guys. |
Umega
Solis Mensa
43
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Posted - 2012.01.19 19:58:00 -
[11] - Quote
Tobias Sjodin wrote:
If you bring 50 hurricanes to kill a supercap and leave the hics at home, you should just purge your characters right now. If you can't kill a supercap with 50 people, it isn't the game that is broken. It's you.
+1
People should stop being Lemmings, bitching to CCP for an easier way to do things over and over and over again. It's making me rather sick. Instead of actually making the effort to utualize what is in the game that works.. they want CCP to morph the game into their set way of doing things so they don't have to change tactics.
People fail this game more than the game fails them. |
Fix Lag
240
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Posted - 2012.01.19 20:02:00 -
[12] - Quote
Umega wrote:
+1
People should stop being Lemmings, bitching to CCP for an easier way to do things over and over and over again. It's making me rather sick. Instead of actually making the effort to utualize what is in the game that works.. they want CCP to morph the game into their set way of doing things so they don't have to change tactics.
People fail this game more than the game fails them.
Keep crying that someone's taking away your win button. In between your sobs, you can hear the all-too-familiar sound of nobody giving a ****. |
Umega
Solis Mensa
43
|
Posted - 2012.01.19 20:20:00 -
[13] - Quote
Fix Lag wrote:Umega wrote:
+1
People should stop being Lemmings, bitching to CCP for an easier way to do things over and over and over again. It's making me rather sick. Instead of actually making the effort to utualize what is in the game that works.. they want CCP to morph the game into their set way of doing things so they don't have to change tactics.
People fail this game more than the game fails them.
Keep crying that someone's taking away your win button. In between your sobs, you can hear the all-too-familiar sound of nobody giving a ****.
My only 'win' button is that I treat this like a game.. and know that if I change myself in the game, I can accomplish more than by being a little ***** on the forums, trying to force CCP to change the game around my concrete leg stance.
Set yourself in stone.. makes you easier to manipulate and pop off anyway.
There will always be a counter for everything, whether people notice it or not. I could go on with the list of fleet/blob/gang ideals that have changed over the years that have NOTHING to do with game mechanic changes, but successful people being noticed, respected, and copied.
So yeah.. I'm still going to **** all over ideas that force this game to be more one dimensional and single file. Narrow minded crap like '50 hurricanes can't scram a super' '20 falcons can't jam a super' 'large super fleet to kill a super'.. how or why should anyone take arguements like that seriously? There is next to no thought behind them.. creating extremes in an attempt to justify your stance.. when simply put..
If you can't kill a super with 50 people.. you are the failure, not the game.
Quit being a failure and pinning it on CCP. It's You. |
Fix Lag
242
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Posted - 2012.01.19 20:30:00 -
[14] - Quote
I've already laid out arguments and reasoning as to why supercapitals should not be any different than other ships (or at best mildly better given their cost) with regards to warp strength and sensor strength. Apparently you couldn't read them or chose to ignore them. The game is always changing and CCP rarely gets things right: supers still enjoy undue privileges not afforded any other ship, even capitals. These advantages have no basis in game balance and are the byproduct of CCP's "let's make titans and supercarriers insanely amazing because there will be maybe one or two per alliance at most lololol" mentality. History has shown that mentality to be utterly deluded.
Supercapitals need to have their mechanics brought in line with those of every other ship class in the game. There is no good reason as to why they have complete immunity as opposed to strong resistance to warp scrambling and sensor jamming. |
Jaigar
Mom 'n' Pop Ammo Shoppe
R.E.P.O.
32
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Posted - 2012.01.19 20:31:00 -
[15] - Quote
Ok, say if you do bring hics to tackle a supercap.
1. It takes some time to take down a supercap. If said supercap is all out on its lonesome, 50 canes aren't going to kill it before backup arrives.
2. Tracking titans makes HICs undesirable. Hell, if you add a rapier, even a dictor will go bye-bye.
3. Super caps being able to point other super caps. Honestly I don't know if I like that idea. Yeah, it MIGHT lead to more super-caps getting blown up, but you still would need supercaps to kill supercaps. Personally I do not understand CCP's thinking behind supercaps in low sec. You can only hold them there with focused points from HICs, and all it takes is an ECM burst and thats it, free to disengage when it chooses. Maybe remove the point immunity in low sec and replace it with a 10 warp core strength or something (pulled from another thread), but eWAR immunity, a sentinel or a keres rendering a Titan useless, I don't think thats a good idea. |
Fix Lag
242
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Posted - 2012.01.19 20:31:00 -
[16] - Quote
Might I add that when titans first came out, hictors couldn't even pin them down. CCP had literally made them unkillable on the flawed assumption that there would only ever be a few of those ships in existence. Obviously, they were wrong about that. |
Garmon
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
49
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Posted - 2012.01.19 20:37:00 -
[17] - Quote
Fix Lag wrote:Might I add that when titans first came out, hictors couldn't even pin them down. CCP had literally made them unkillable on the flawed assumption that there would only ever be a few of those ships in existence. Obviously, they were wrong about that.
HICs didn't exist back then |
Fix Lag
242
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Posted - 2012.01.19 20:39:00 -
[18] - Quote
Garmon wrote:HICs didn't exist back then
not much I can say to this other than "oh god it was even worse than what I remember them saying about it" |
Mag's
the united
Negative Ten.
5179
|
Posted - 2012.01.20 14:00:00 -
[19] - Quote
Fix Lag wrote:Garmon wrote:HICs didn't exist back then not much I can say to this other than "oh god it was even worse than what I remember them saying about it" It's quite telling, that you didn't know.
CCP Zulu.....
Forcing players to dock at the captain's quarters is a form of what we actually wanted to get through, which is making Incarna a seamless part of the EVE Online experience. |
XJennieX
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
8
|
Posted - 2012.01.20 17:03:00 -
[20] - Quote
some PL dude named tobias trying to keep his supercapital invincibility intact.. i hope all supers will burn. |
March rabbit
Ganse
Shadow of xXDEATHXx
114
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Posted - 2012.01.20 17:11:00 -
[21] - Quote
shouldn't you write another threads? you know.... "fix lags" or something?
make another char to speak about SCs and then return. |
Thomas Abernathy
Viziam
Amarr Empire
49
|
Posted - 2012.01.20 17:24:00 -
[22] - Quote
Yes, Let's make Supercaps completely useless, so we can all play nice and draw ponies.
It's really sad that people who have probably never even seen a Supercap, much less been killed by one are convincing CCP to remove them from the game.
I don't know why people play Eve if they are scared all the time....I'm sure there are more appropriate games you can play...
"Fighting CCD since 2139" |
XJennieX
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
8
|
Posted - 2012.01.20 19:07:00 -
[23] - Quote
yes. how about remove supercaps from game as they only break the game? i can say this being in alliance who has loads of em. tho for notorious political reasons cant say what allaince.
|
XJennieX
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
8
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Posted - 2012.01.20 19:09:00 -
[24] - Quote
lets get back to good fights that jumping in supers wont ruin. jump in rep carriers. sure its allright. we still have chance to kill them. jump in supers...... yea right.
|
Tore Vest
Vikinghall
138
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Posted - 2012.01.20 19:21:00 -
[25] - Quote
Cant complain about new super nerf....
Unsubbed my nyx pilot on the first nerf..  |
Xolve
Intaki Armaments
Important Internet Spaceship League
707
|
Posted - 2012.01.20 20:26:00 -
[26] - Quote
ITT: People that can't fly supers, complaining about Supers
Inappropriate signature removed. Navigator. |
Spurty
D00M.
Northern Coalition.
210
|
Posted - 2012.01.20 21:11:00 -
[27] - Quote
Tore Vest wrote:Cant complain about new super nerf.... Unsubbed my nyx pilot on the first nerf..
Reprocess em both to show them that you mean business!
----
CONCORD arrested two n00bs yesterday, one was drinking battery acid, the other was eating fireworks. They charged one and let the other one off. |
Nex apparatu5
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
148
|
Posted - 2012.01.20 22:09:00 -
[28] - Quote
Take away ECM immunity, let supers dock. |
Andski
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
1605
|
Posted - 2012.01.20 22:18:00 -
[29] - Quote
Thomas Abernathy wrote:Yes, Let's make Supercaps completely useless, so we can all play nice and draw ponies. It's really sad that people who have probably never even seen a Supercap, much less been killed by one are convincing CCP to remove them from the game. I don't know why people play Eve if they are scared all the time....I'm sure there are more appropriate games you can play...
it's sad that high-sec pubbies who have never seen a supercap, much less been killed by one are convincing CCP to keep them overpowered |
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