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Eve Isk, another RL currency?

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Aaron	Posted - 2007.09.16 13:25:00 - [1] Hi, Was browsing the net and found this article about an online game called Second Life, copy and paste the link below into a browser. http://money.uk.msn.com/investing/articles/morecommentary/article.aspx?cp-documentid=6103760 I found it quite interesting that the currency used in this game can be exchanged for real money without a problem, and that the makers of the game dont have a problem selling currency for real life money. This game has far more players that Eve (8 million), Why does CCP have to be awkward and not allow the sale and purchase of isk? other games do it and have become very successful. If CCP did sell isk they would have lots of people to buy it with no problem. When CCP create isk it only costs them a few minutes of time, so this means any amount of RL cash they make from the sale of ISK is 100% profit this money could be used to hire more programers and devolopers, more people to deal with petitions etc, Why cant CCP see this great marketing oppertunity and use it to make Eve a better place for everyone. You all know it makes sense. The line between a virtual world and RL is becoming thinner as time goes on,
Avery Fatwallet	Posted - 2007.09.16 13:30:00 - [2] i dunno if 2nd life qualifies as sandbox mmo. its just a different thing. i tried to play it once, but i couldnt even get past the horrible interface. on top of that... i think you are NOT able to earn any money in 2nd life without investing .. a lot ?
Onomatopeia	Posted - 2007.09.16 13:30:00 - [3] So you want Paris Hilton to log in,buy few trillion ISK and become Emperor Of Universe? Sorry to break it to you but her pet spot is taken by some midget dog.
Patch86 Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2007.09.16 13:32:00 - [4] Edited by: Patch86 on 16/09/2007 13:33:08 Second Life runs on a simple basis- you can't do anything in game without money, and the easiest way to get money is to buy it off of us for RL currency! There is little in the way of a game behind this- it's like a big theme park where you insert your special "fun money" in order to ride the attractions. EVE is more like a game, or a sport. It'd be like playing Monopoly, and you're having a bit of bad luck and are nearly out of money. one of your rival players is just about to finish you off with a big Hotel rent, and you go "screw it, I'll pay you ú20 if you let me take 10k in Monopoly money out of the box". It'd defy the point of playing; suddenly you're not just competing within the confines of the artificial rules of the game, you're competing based on external, unrelated merits. Imagine the Goons vs BoB war. Why would Goonswarm even bother attacking and blowing up BoB ships if they knew some rich guy was in there alliance and would just buy them replacements with his RL money? It'd sort of take the point out of the two entities competing. ------ Originally by: CCP Prism X There's no such thing as playing too much EvE! You all obviously need more accounts!
Caiman Graystock The Caldari Confederation	Posted - 2007.09.16 13:37:00 - [5] Yet with GTCs for ISK, sponsored by CCP, that's exactly what some rich guy in an alliance can, and probably does do.
Patch86 Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2007.09.16 13:38:00 - [6] Originally by: Caiman Graystock Yet with GTCs for ISK, sponsored by CCP, that's exactly what some rich guy in an alliance can, and probably does do. And I do think that is a massive and lame loophole, and wish it would die. But thats beside the point. ------ Originally by: CCP Prism X There's no such thing as playing too much EvE! You all obviously need more accounts!
LemonHamster	Posted - 2007.09.16 13:44:00 - [7] Second life is an overhyped piece of ** full of furries. NEVER use it as an example. The media love it because they're all idiots with the gaming experience of a 6 year old who appreciate the OOH SHINY of giant ***es being shown on a graphics system that looks like it's being run by an amiga. Seriously, second life = crap. End thread now. _____________ NYAH ^_^
Aaron	Posted - 2007.09.16 13:46:00 - [8] Originally by: Patch86 Edited by: Patch86 on 16/09/2007 13:33:08 Second Life runs on a simple basis- you can't do anything in game without money, and the easiest way to get money is to buy it off of us for RL currency! There is little in the way of a game behind this- it's like a big theme park where you insert your special "fun money" in order to ride the attractions. EVE is more like a game, or a sport. It'd be like playing Monopoly, and you're having a bit of bad luck and are nearly out of money. one of your rival players is just about to finish you off with a big Hotel rent, and you go "screw it, I'll pay you ú20 if you let me take 10k in Monopoly money out of the box". It'd defy the point of playing; suddenly you're not just competing within the confines of the artificial rules of the game, you're competing based on external, unrelated merits. Imagine the Goons vs BoB war. Why would Goonswarm even bother attacking and blowing up BoB ships if they knew some rich guy was in there alliance and would just buy them replacements with his RL money? It'd sort of take the point out of the two entities competing. Interesting post buddy, imo it would then be upto goonswarm to do somthing to raise RL money to purchase isk and continue the fight with BOB, My main point is that CCP would get all the RL money from isk sales, invest in more hardware, employees etc, and make this a great game. Like it or not, managing a mmo is a licence to print money, CCP should be more greedy, take this opertunity to make money and give us a better Eve Online, They could increase the size of eve universe by 10 times, if they can afford to build and maintain it.
Jojo Yohan Gallente Cskillzone DAMAGE INC...	Posted - 2007.09.16 13:47:00 - [9] The whole thing with them having 8 million players is rubbish. Thats how many "accounts" they have, apparently, they only have a fraction of that active.
Wacoede Amarr Allied Combat Team Endless Horizon	Posted - 2007.09.16 13:50:00 - [10] SL is not a Game it is a adventure park / social chat room there is no goals in the 'game' there are no missions (that I found) An Idea about Bounties Version 2
Aaron	Posted - 2007.09.16 13:50:00 - [11] Originally by: LemonHamster Second life is an overhyped piece of ** full of furries. NEVER use it as an example. The media love it because they're all idiots with the gaming experience of a 6 year old who appreciate the OOH SHINY of giant ***es being shown on a graphics system that looks like it's being run by an amiga. Seriously, second life = crap. End thread now. 8 million people dont agree with you, the main point im getting at is eve is another reality, just as second life is, is there really that much difference?
Epica Caldari Exiled.	Posted - 2007.09.16 14:08:00 - [12] Sl has 8 million account. Yea they have hat many account. But a very small fraction of those accounts are active players/chatters. And t obe honest. I dont classify SL as a game. its more a huge chatroom. "Death by very big pew pew blasters."
Cadela Fria Amarr Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.09.16 14:12:00 - [13] Edited by: Cadela Fria on 16/09/2007 14:12:43 Originally by: Aaron 8 million people dont agree with you, the main point im getting at is eve is another reality, just as second life is, is there really that much difference? 8 million people who don't play EVE either, so screw them tbh. Is there much of a difference? Yes! There is...EVE is NOTHING like Second Life, period. Just because they're both sandbox games does NOT equate to them being even remotely similar Originally by: Aaron You all know it makes sense. On the contrary, I don't know that it makes sense. In fact it makes absolutely no sense why anyone should be able to compete in this game through their real life wallet, except to keep their subscription running. Originally by: Aaron The line between a virtual world and RL is becoming thinner as time goes on. Be as that may, it shouldn't..Thats why one is virtual, and another is not. As much as I like EVE for it's ability to evolve and for it's rich environment and community..it is STILL a GAME. Okay? Get that through your skull please and stop trying to spin any argument towards making isk selling legal. It DESTROYS the game, and psses honest hardworking players like me off to have to look at stupid chinese isk seller ads all the time. Knowledge is a priviledge, not a right*
Lavinrac Krad Caldari	Posted - 2007.09.16 14:27:00 - [14] Edited by: Lavinrac Krad on 16/09/2007 14:26:55 Originally by: Aaron I found it quite interesting that the currency used in this game can be exchanged for real money without a problem, and that the makers of the game dont have a problem selling currency for real life money. Not quite true. One customer sued another customer in SL because his competitor stole his intellectual property. Now sure, in Eve we don't really build things like they do in SL, BUT! What happens If I commit fraud against you in Eve and rob you of all your isk? I stole something of monetary value from you, that is a hell of a RL mess... -Sig Starts- Why donÆt you show us on the dolly where the bad miner touched you. -Thesas THE NERF BAT COMETH! REPENT SINNER! --If I were god, then I'd nerf mice and men, like in that sayin
Ki Tarra Caldari Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2007.09.16 15:29:00 - [15] Originally by: Caiman Graystock Yet with GTCs for ISK, sponsored by CCP, that's exactly what some rich guy in an alliance can, and probably does do. Execpt that the rick guy quite likely spawned a bunch more characters for the opposing fleet. There is still balance, you can earn much more ISK by managing the characters those GTC's can activate than you hope to get by trading those GTC's for ISK. It is not even close. If an alliance tried to maintain themselves off of GTC purchases, they would soon find the opposing fleet buying up those GTC's and using those characters against them. ************************** Ki Tech Industries - Bond Offer
Wild Rho Amarr Endgame.	Posted - 2007.09.16 15:30:00 - [16] It brings too much direct influence from outside into the game.
Thanos Draicon	Posted - 2007.09.16 15:35:00 - [17] Second Life doesn't have a player-driven economy, and you can't actually "lose" things in second life. The meaning of their currency and the meaning of ISK can't be compared.
Kylar Renpurs Dusk Blade	Posted - 2007.09.16 15:45:00 - [18] Edited by: Kylar Renpurs on 16/09/2007 15:47:29 Quote: Why does CCP have to be awkward and not allow the sale and purchase of isk? Why do you have to try and pressure the designers of a game who made a decision to not allow the purchase of isk to change their minds? If you don't like it, go play a game which allows the purchase of in-game resources with RL money. I've talked with my housemate who doesn't like that games companies make a decision to "disallow" people from using RL money to gain an advantage in-game. End of the day we both agreed that it's like asking "Why do you have to kick the ball through the goals in soccer to score a goal, why can't you bring in a truck, put it in the back and wheel it through?" Answer being because whoever made up the game "soccer" said so. If you want to play a game like that, go get some mates together and play it. Point being CCP has laid down in the rules that you cannot purchase in-game items with real-life currency. Yes, GTC sales for isk does raise a lot of questions, but they are largely irrelevant, and relate to a business and game design choice rather than a "They Do/Do not support isk sales for RL cash" argument. CCP has laid down, in more or less words: 1. You must not purchase in game items with RL currency. 2. You may "purchase" isk by purchasing GTC's and selling them for isk. You don't like those rules? Go play a different game which has a different policy. Quote: You all know it makes sense. If CCP allowed the purchase of ISK and in game items with money, I wouldn't play EVE. I got into games like that at one point, and I hated them, yet ironically in those games I was part of what would be the equivalent of BoB in EVE. My team were champions in every round in one such game, which was free to play, but cash got you special perks. It frustrated players to no end that such an advantage could be gained, and to be honest it really did bore me, and as a result I now find games which allow advantages gained based on how much RL cash you pump in are *boring, unentertaining and unchallenging,,, not* unfair. The summary if you can't be stuffed reading my ramble? Should game companies allow you to purchase in game items/advantages with RL cash? To be honest, I don't care. It's a design choice. IF CCP say "You cant buy isk except through GTC sales" then thats what they mean. If you don't like it, stuff to me now, see you in a different game. Improve Market Competition!
Xilian Caldari Imperium Forces	Posted - 2007.09.16 16:01:00 - [19] Edited by: Xilian on 16/09/2007 16:02:42 Secon life is not a game, its.. i dont know what it is. I dont know any other real online games that allow isk / gold sales. when i played WoW many players got banned for isk selling. Also. buying isk is F'king lame, play the game its ment to be played, or go play around with second life!!
Lucky 8 Minmatar	Posted - 2007.09.16 16:13:00 - [20] Originally by: Aaron Ignorant whine... Trolling probably. If not, DIE. -- Originally by: Nicho Void This thread is like a chum slick for forum alt trolls.
JADE DRAG0NESS Dark Scorpions Fate Weavers	Posted - 2007.09.16 16:30:00 - [21] First of all i will say that the basic idea of second life is a good one in theory. The basic idea is you can live the life you cant have in the real world br making your own world in second life. After all who doesant want to own a yaught in real life you can but in second life you can not only own one you can make one. Sadly tho the reality of this game is very different when it goes live. You are ggreeted by a poor interface and a even poorer tutorial when you start. Then as yuo enter the main server you are surrounded by garish casinos and sex shops. Alsothe lag here is trullyatrocias once i was flying along trying to get past the casinos and sex shops to find something of true interest wheni stopped flying i soon found myself being surrounded by appearing building blocks and realised i flew inside a building before it had even formed. Eventually after bumping my way past severall invisible walls i eventually found myself in front of a pirate ship in the sky poplated by copulating male pirates yep i found some *** pirates well suffice to say after seeing this and a sex toy shop i deleted my copy off my hard drive. So DONTcompare eve to second life please if you want to be taken seriously. "Kill one man, and you are a murderer. Kill millions of men, and you are a conqueror. Kill them all, and you are a god." -- Jean Rostand
Death Kill Caldari direkte	Posted - 2007.09.16 16:34:00 - [22] Edited by: Death Kill on 16/09/2007 16:35:10 Originally by: Aaron 8 million people dont agree with you, There are more than 8 million idiots in the world. If 8 million people ate poo, would you say its because it tastes good? I tried second life once and it was beyond crap. Its something horrible that belongs in the internet darkages. STAND OUT!
Thanos Draicon	Posted - 2007.09.16 16:42:00 - [23] Edited by: Thanos Draicon on 16/09/2007 16:41:56 Originally by: Aaron Quote: Imagine the Goons vs BoB war. Why would Goonswarm even bother attacking and blowing up BoB ships if they knew some rich guy was in there alliance and would just buy them replacements with his RL money? It'd sort of take the point out of the two entities competing. Interesting post buddy, imo it would then be upto goonswarm to do somthing to raise RL money to purchase isk and continue the fight with BOB So you think that our ability to compete is a factor of how much real money we're willing to sink into our game? ** you, *****.
Plutonian Plutonian Shore	Posted - 2007.09.16 16:46:00 - [24] "When Arcades Walked the Earth..." ... there eventually arrived machines which would allow someone who lost their 3-5 lives to continue the game from that point by inserting another quarter into the machine. In other words, some players could make up for their lack of skill by using real-world funds. As a matter of fact, a well-financed player could actually get farther than one who relied on skill. It was almost universally considered a "cheat" by dedicated competitors. Games are about skill and solving challenges... not bank account figures. This pattern still exists today, long after the arcades have disappeared. How many times have you heard the term 'Ebay character' or 'buying ISK' mentioned in a good light? How many people are proud of doing so? Using real-world money to advance in a closed-system game is a shortcut for those who wish to avoid the work required to reach the 'higher levels'. It is not a sign of skill... it is a sign of a lack of skill. As a result, any victories gained by that player are false, since they were not earned. Even the inclusion of the possibility of real-life funds assisting gameplay cheapens the whole experience for everyone. A quarter of a century ago, if someone mentioned he'd beaten an arcade game (which allowed continuation for a quarter), I'd warily ask "Yeah, but how much did you spend to do it?" Unless he did it on a single quarter, his victory doesn't really add up to much.
Drachma Golea Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2007.09.16 16:50:00 - [25] There is a game called project-entropia which has an ingame bank for buying and selling ingame currency. But IIRC there is only economics, like a market where you can gain and lose your ISK. There is afaik not a way that you could get destroyed by another player, only NPC's can kill you...
Aaron	Posted - 2007.09.16 18:24:00 - [26] Originally by: Lucky 8 Originally by: Aaron Ignorant whine... Trolling probably. If not, DIE. Read the OP properly and you will see im not whining, its more of an observation, Ive seen countless posts about people not being happy with petitions taking so long, if CCP could afford more GM's to sort the petitions is that a good or bad thing? Also what about the people who are mad about eve but can only play 2 or 3 hours per week coz they got big responsibilities in real life? if CCP was directly in control of selling isk these people could have more fun in game, instead of using their precious time mining, Like it or not, game currency is big bussiness, anyone involved in selling it will make RL money, thats a fact. As I say this is not a whine, just an interesting subject i want to talk about.
WGAnubis Marrith Gallente	Posted - 2007.09.16 18:29:00 - [27] Wasnt the SL database hacked some time ago and someone stole the CC infomation of a majority of the player base?
Plutonian Plutonian Shore	Posted - 2007.09.16 21:01:00 - [28] Originally by: Aaron Ive seen countless posts about people not being happy with petitions taking so long, if CCP could afford more GM's to sort the petitions is that a good or bad thing? Also what about the people who are mad about eve but can only play 2 or 3 hours per week coz they got big responsibilities in real life? if CCP was directly in control of selling isk these people could have more fun in game, instead of using their precious time mining, Like it or not, game currency is big bussiness, anyone involved in selling it will make RL money, thats a fact. As I say this is not a whine, just an interesting subject i want to talk about. More GM's isn't always the correct answer. Ironically, there is a point of diminishing returns involved in such things. It is an interesting subject. The lines between fantasy entertainment and reality have become increasingly blurred in the past decade. I tend to wonder what the eventual outcome will be. Perhaps someday the two will co-exist more easily. But for now, we seem able only to restrict real-world finances in an attempt to keep the gameplay alive. Let's look at your example of the player who loves Eve, but only get 3-4 hours a week to play (a boat I've been in myself for the past month). So let's say that since I cannot play as much, I'll pay extra to maintain my 'edge'. What about the poor collage student who I'm competing with? One who can just barely afford his one-account subscription, but puts in 12 hours a day grinding to get ahead? In all fairness, if I'm spending only 3-4 hours a week in the game, by what right do I excel past a player who spends 12 hours a day in the game? If you worked maniacally for a year to train and hone your skills and wallet, would you not be upset to be beaten by someone who paid some extra money to get ahead? All your hard work was now just an exercise in futility... you earned your way, but the other guy bought his victory. It's like agreeing to pay to play a game of checkers against someone, then finding they have twice as many pieces on the board, all because they paid a bit more. The system was designed to be closed to outside economic influences to prevent such cases. It would be wonderful if we lived in a society where every player fought the 'fair' fight and the enjoyment (win or lose) was valued over the victory. Sadly, I do not believe we have evolved to that point.
Cadela Fria Amarr Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.09.16 21:14:00 - [29] Originally by: Aaron Also what about the people who are mad about eve but can only play 2 or 3 hours per week coz they got big responsibilities in real life? if CCP was directly in control of selling isk these people could have more fun in game, instead of using their precious time mining, Like it or not, game currency is big bussiness, anyone involved in selling it will make RL money, thats a fact. As I say this is not a whine, just an interesting subject i want to talk about. Screw those people tbh...If you can't keep up in EVE because of RL reponsibilities, then you're playing the wrong game. On the other hand if you have half a brain, you'll be able to organise your training time even if you can only play a few days a week. This isn't a simple, laid back, anti-stress relaxation game and it never will be, and thats part of what makes this game great! Theres too many dumbed down and easy games out there as it is....Complex gaming ftw! So like I started out saying, respect to those who work so hard in RL they dont have time to play EVE, but as far as EVE goes, ** them! Knowledge is a priviledge, not a right**
Digital Solaris Latrocinium Inc.	Posted - 2007.09.16 21:20:00 - [30] Originally by: Aaron 8 million people dont agree with you, the main point im getting at is eve is another reality, just as second life is, is there really that much difference? Do you have any other reliable source for that number because it sounds extremely exaggerated to me? Difference between reality and a game? Yes, there is a slight difference. Jump out from a window in reality, preferably high up, and self-destruct your pod in EVE. Noticed anything?

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