Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Arkyk
|
Posted - 2007.09.18 18:25:00 -
[1]
I'm having a real tough time with L3's in my shiny new Drake (Warp in, kill one or two enemies, warp out. Repeat for two hours (or 6 in the case of one mission).) L3 seems much, much harder than L2, and I was hoping to get some opinions on how to spruce up my build:
High: 7x Heavy Missile Launchers 1x Small Tractor Beam
Medium: 3x Large Shield Extender 2x Faction-Specific Hardeners 1x Invuln. Field.
Low: 1x Damage Control 1x Ballistic Control 2x PDU
My skills are so-so (Average 3 in Missile/Shields categories). Any advice? ---------------- Mostly harmless. |
lyrenna
Caldari The Renaissance The Makhai
|
Posted - 2007.09.18 18:30:00 -
[2]
core defence field purger rigs, and also you can try to upgrade launchers at least adv. limos other wise looks/sounds good and of course try to get t2 soon especialy for bc, pdu and hardeners
infected sig, stay away! |
Allestin Villimar
|
Posted - 2007.09.18 18:38:00 -
[3]
Get your shield hp/recharge skills up to 4, and put shield power relays in the low slots (3 of them at least, use 1 BCU). Purger rigs are good to have, but for level 3s you should be ok without them as long as you don't pull everything at once. Remember that your shields have the highest regen at around 35% or so.
|
Jennifer Flate
Caldari SKORPION CORP
|
Posted - 2007.09.18 18:45:00 -
[4]
Yeah, it'd be best to have some shield power relays in the lows. And at least 1 CDFP rig. I would also say scrap the invul field and pick up a shield recharger II (or best named if you havent the skills) my setup atm with most shield skills to 4 is:
High: 4x HML 2x Malkuth HML 1x Limos HML (purely because i found them from looting :P)
Med: 3x LSE II's 2x rat spec. ACTIVE hardeners (named) 1x Shield Recharger II
Low: 2x PDU II's 2x SPR II's
2x CDFP (purger) rigs
i only have 2 purely coz i havent the money for a 3rd. I can tank almost every single lvl3 mission with that, only one that i have slight trouble with is the kruul one.
|
Arkyk
|
Posted - 2007.09.18 18:54:00 -
[5]
Something I should have mentioned:
My total ISK at this point is about 10 Million.
Other than my skills, that's probably the biggest damper on what I can fit. =P ---------------- Mostly harmless. |
1024Alex
Caldari
|
Posted - 2007.09.18 19:00:00 -
[6]
Edited by: 1024Alex on 18/09/2007 19:01:37 I can tank most lvl4s with this setup, completely passive:
Highs: 7X T2 Heavys
Mids: 2X T2 Large Sheild EX T2s 2X T2 shield rechargers 2x T2 Shield resistance amps
Lows:
4x T2 Spr
Mods:
3x Purger 1s
Im assuming that you dont have t2 stuff yet but this setup is extremely strong.
Edit: i didnt see your isk restriction, this probably cost over 60m... the rigs are 45 alone if you buy them but i would reccomend making them, much much cheaper that way
|
Arkyk
|
Posted - 2007.09.18 19:08:00 -
[7]
Originally by: 1024Alex Edited by: 1024Alex on 18/09/2007 19:01:37 I can tank most lvl4s with this setup, completely passive:
What do you use all your cap for? =P That's my only hesitation with most passive setups, especially on missile boats. I feel like I'm wasting cap by not using any of it.
Since I'm only running L3's, it might be possible to adapt a cheaper T1 version of your setup, though. I have an entire warehouse full of modules (I'm a packrat; I keep everything), so I'll tinker around with it some. ---------------- Mostly harmless. |
Praxis1452
|
Posted - 2007.09.18 19:13:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Arkyk
Originally by: 1024Alex Edited by: 1024Alex on 18/09/2007 19:01:37 I can tank most lvl4s with this setup, completely passive:
What do you use all your cap for? =P That's my only hesitation with most passive setups, especially on missile boats. I feel like I'm wasting cap by not using any of it.
Since I'm only running L3's, it might be possible to adapt a cheaper T1 version of your setup, though. I have an entire warehouse full of modules (I'm a packrat; I keep everything), so I'll tinker around with it some.
I used to run lvl 3's in my caracal heh. It was easy. only the hardest ones took a while. In a drake it should be in easy mode. 2 large shield extenders 7x heavy missile launchers. 2 Shield Power RElays 2 Ballistic Control Units 3 active hards whatever you like. DOn't run Invuln unless you are facing mercenaries or where they use all types. Invuln is a large energy drain and it's not worth it when you can just run 3 active hards that correspond to the damage. If you do run an invuln run an resist amp. 2 large shield extenders are enough for me.
My peak regen if I switch out the Ballistic controls for SPR's or 1 SPr and 1 power diag is like 60 or 70 I believe.
At the moment my peak regen is only at like 45hp/s. However in reality the time it take for my enemies to get through my 10k shield buffer or really 7k to get it down to the 30% with my actives activated is long enough that I should have eliminated most of the damage. I also don't go in and aggro every group. I just fly one way and spam missiles however I do keep my ship in lock range of the next group so I can do the missions faster.
I also haven't used any rigs as of yet.
|
Aprudena Gist
Caldari Chokdi Science and Industry
|
Posted - 2007.09.18 19:22:00 -
[9]
Lets see i never really found l3's hard at all in my drake.
Highs: 6x Heavy Missiles 1xSalvager 1xSmall Tractors Bean
Mids: 3xLES 3xShield Amps ( EM,Kenetic,Thermal)
Lows: 4xSPR
Rigs: 3x Core defence field purger I
I really like this setup you can tank just about anything.
|
Arkyk
|
Posted - 2007.09.18 19:38:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Praxis1452 I used to run lvl 3's in my caracal heh. It was easy. only the hardest ones took a while. In a drake it should be in easy mode.
You'd think so, wouldn't you? But man, some of those missions aren't limited so much by my tank as by my damage output. It can take half a reload of ammo to down a single frigate in some of 'em. I was messing around with a Web for a while to help me out, but losing a mid slot to a Web was too much, especially when I then needed to fit an AB/MWD just to get close enough to the little buggers to catch them in it.
Basically, from all the comments here, I looks like I just need to fit some SPRs into my low slots and swap out an LSE for a Shield Recharger and I should be good.
Thanks for the advice, all. ---------------- Mostly harmless. |
|
Praxis1452
|
Posted - 2007.09.18 19:46:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Arkyk
Originally by: Praxis1452 I used to run lvl 3's in my caracal heh. It was easy. only the hardest ones took a while. In a drake it should be in easy mode.
You'd think so, wouldn't you? But man, some of those missions aren't limited so much by my tank as by my damage output. It can take half a reload of ammo to down a single frigate in some of 'em. I was messing around with a Web for a while to help me out, but losing a mid slot to a Web was too much, especially when I then needed to fit an AB/MWD just to get close enough to the little buggers to catch them in it.
Basically, from all the comments here, I looks like I just need to fit some SPRs into my low slots and swap out an LSE for a Shield Recharger and I should be good.
Thanks for the advice, all.
actually I'm using a drake right now. =P
Drones are the bomb. I'm using 2 mediums and 1 light. I just don't wanna train drones to V atm to use 5 light scout drones or else I would
in a drake you can take a frigate out pretty easily.
If damage output is a problem in general I greatly suggets Ballistic Control systems. makes missions easy.
|
ArrogantGod
|
Posted - 2007.09.18 19:47:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Arkyk I'm having a real tough time with L3's in my shiny new Drake (Warp in, kill one or two enemies, warp out. Repeat for two hours (or 6 in the case of one mission).) L3 seems much, much harder than L2, and I was hoping to get some opinions on how to spruce up my build:
I've been doing L3s in a Caracel with 1.5mil SPs.
Sounds like your tactics are the issue, not the ship build.
Fit an afterburner and set your "keep at range" default to 1 km under your max missile range. Then just fight at that range.
|
Borasao
|
Posted - 2007.09.18 19:49:00 -
[13]
Originally by: 1024Alex Edited by: 1024Alex on 18/09/2007 19:01:37 I can tank most lvl4s with this setup, completely passive:
Highs: 7X T2 Heavys
Mids: 2X T2 Large Sheild EX T2s 2X T2 shield rechargers 2x T2 Shield resistance amps
Lows:
4x T2 Spr
Mods:
3x Purger 1s
I can tank all L4s (as long as I don't do something stupid and agro all the rats in the toughest missions) with:
7xHML 3xLSE2, 2xPrimary, 1xSecondary 2xBCU2, 1xSPR2, 1xPDU2 3xPurgerIs
If I'm worried, I replace a BCU2 with an SPR2. I could probably drop the PDU2 and replace with another BCU2 or SPR2 for more tank or more gank (2xBCU2 + 2xSPR2 or 3xBCU2 + 1xSPR2). 4x SPR2 is *way* over tanked and not enough gank to run L4s in a reasonable amount of time solo.
|
Arkyk
|
Posted - 2007.09.18 19:51:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Praxis1452 Drones are the bomb. I'm using 2 mediums and 1 light. I just don't wanna train drones to V atm to use 5 light scout drones or else I would
Yeah, they don't dent the bigger stuff, but they're nice to help with the frigates. (I've noticed that most of my damage problems come from Armor Repping NPCs. I chew through their shields, and then it's a game of three steps forward, two steps back until I go cross-eyed from boredom =D)
Quote: If damage output is a problem in general I greatly suggets Ballistic Control systems. makes missions easy.
I have one fitted now, and I'll probably keep it. Aren't the stacking penalties pretty extreme for fitting more than 1? ---------------- Mostly harmless. |
Borasao
|
Posted - 2007.09.18 19:53:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Arkyk
I have one fitted now, and I'll probably keep it. Aren't the stacking penalties pretty extreme for fitting more than 1?
No... you still get great benefit from 2 and marginal from 3 and minimal for 4 (no reason to put a 4th one).
|
Arkyk
|
Posted - 2007.09.18 19:53:00 -
[16]
Originally by: ArrogantGod I've been doing L3s in a Caracel with 1.5mil SPs.
Sounds like your tactics are the issue, not the ship build.
Fit an afterburner and set your "keep at range" default to 1 km under your max missile range. Then just fight at that range.
How do you do enough damage to take out the Cruisers/BCs? ---------------- Mostly harmless. |
Aprudena Gist
Caldari Chokdi Science and Industry
|
Posted - 2007.09.18 19:54:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Arkyk
Originally by: Praxis1452 Drones are the bomb. I'm using 2 mediums and 1 light. I just don't wanna train drones to V atm to use 5 light scout drones or else I would
Yeah, they don't dent the bigger stuff, but they're nice to help with the frigates. (I've noticed that most of my damage problems come from Armor Repping NPCs. I chew through their shields, and then it's a game of three steps forward, two steps back until I go cross-eyed from boredom =D)
Quote: If damage output is a problem in general I greatly suggets Ballistic Control systems. makes missions easy.
I have one fitted now, and I'll probably keep it. Aren't the stacking penalties pretty extreme for fitting more than 1?
insane not really its like 80% for the second one but the best thing to help you kill a frigate is a target painter.
|
Arkyk
|
Posted - 2007.09.18 20:02:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Aprudena Gist the best thing to help you kill a frigate is a target painter.
*slaps forehead*
I knew target velocity vs. explosion velocity was a factor, but how did I not realize that signature radius is a factor too?
I = Noob. =P ---------------- Mostly harmless. |
Praxis1452
|
Posted - 2007.09.18 20:05:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Aprudena Gist
Originally by: Arkyk
Originally by: Praxis1452 Drones are the bomb. I'm using 2 mediums and 1 light. I just don't wanna train drones to V atm to use 5 light scout drones or else I would
Yeah, they don't dent the bigger stuff, but they're nice to help with the frigates. (I've noticed that most of my damage problems come from Armor Repping NPCs. I chew through their shields, and then it's a game of three steps forward, two steps back until I go cross-eyed from boredom =D)
Quote: If damage output is a problem in general I greatly suggets Ballistic Control systems. makes missions easy.
I have one fitted now, and I'll probably keep it. Aren't the stacking penalties pretty extreme for fitting more than 1?
I've tried target painters and even with 2 on my caracal I was only getting a 5-10 extra damage per missile. Not worth it imo. just use drones. Not worth fitting a target painter onto a drake. the 6 med slots should be tank. the lows you could fit with 2 BCS which would be overall faster than 2 TP I think. insane not really its like 80% for the second one but the best thing to help you kill a frigate is a target painter.
|
Allestin Villimar
|
Posted - 2007.09.18 20:28:00 -
[20]
You'll definitely want to use drones against frigates, and even more so in level 4 missions since they really start to warp scramble in those. T2 drones can even take down some of the weaker battleships given enough time, they rip through frigates like paper though.
|
|
Tailhook
Caldari
|
Posted - 2007.09.18 20:28:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Borasao
Originally by: Arkyk
I have one fitted now, and I'll probably keep it. Aren't the stacking penalties pretty extreme for fitting more than 1?
No... you still get great benefit from 2 and marginal from 3 and minimal for 4 (no reason to put a 4th one).
Yeah, really great benefit, first T2 BCS increases DPS around 22.9%, the second is stacking nerfed, yielding only 19.6%, but that is not 19.6% of your base DPS but of the 122.9%.
Net effect is you actually get more DPS form the second BCS than the first, and this number grows if you use a better than T2 BCS, add to this that more DPS breaks tanks faster and thus needs lower overall damage caused, and you get a really noticable difference in killing speed.
|
Byzan Zwyth
Dark Centuri Inc. Firmus Ixion
|
Posted - 2007.09.18 20:36:00 -
[22]
- Get your 2 main shield skills to 4 so you can use a "large shield booster II" and help fitting - Upgrade your Missile launchers, BCS and PDU to the best named you can afford! Reprocess and sell your loot & Junk, sell other ships if you need to to get the isk! Meta level 2 or better Mods for named kit. - I dont know hwo this fits... But you can start give it a go.
You should be able to do level3's **** easy, use the AB to get about - so you do them faster.
High: 7x Heavy Missile Launchers (get good named!!~) 1x Small Tractor Beam
Medium: 1x 10mn AB (named!) 3x Active hardeners, rat damage specific. 1x large shield booster II (best named till you can get T2) 1x Shield boost AMP
Low: 1x Ballistic Control, named 3x PDU, named ---------------------- Rank: Tech 1 and a 1/2 cannon fodder
Pointless forum slowing bandwidth hogging signature pic inc? |
ArrogantGod
|
Posted - 2007.09.18 20:46:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Arkyk
How do you do enough damage to take out the Cruisers/BCs?
5x named assult launchers (bloodclaw missiles only) 2x named BCS 2x drones
Missiles hit for just shy of 130 each against hull with a rate of fire around 8sec.
~90dps against hull, ~60dps against most armor/shields
Seems to be enough.
|
Shadarle
|
Posted - 2007.09.18 21:36:00 -
[24]
The problem sounds like a horrible lack of skills. But honestly, there should never be a problem in a level 3 with a drake, even with your setup. But swap out your 2 PDS for 2 SPR.
Very important is to get your missile and drone skills up. I found getting drones to 5 was the best thing I ever did when running missions. Not because 5 drones was so great by itself, but getting drone interfacing to level 3 was a godsend. 5 light drones in a drake with interfacing 3/4 will kill off any frigate you face very easily. They will even kill off most cruisers. You can use drones to solo the small stuff while you smoke the large stuff with all 7 launchers.
Getting rapid fire, heavy missiles, MLO, etc all to at least 4 will help a lot. Getting MLO to 5 will be great too as you can get guided missile precision, which will help with those smaller ships.
Getting better missile launchers makes a big difference as well. Every upgrade is a 5% dmg boost over base. Limos really are not very expensive an provide a big boost over regular launchers.
Dump that worthless damage control, they suck for shield tanks. 2-3/SPR 1-2/BCU.
Tanking Setups Compared
Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained |
Raekkul
Caldari
|
Posted - 2007.09.20 01:56:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Arkyk I'm having a real tough time with L3's in my shiny new Drake (Warp in, kill one or two enemies, warp out. Repeat for two hours (or 6 in the case of one mission).) L3 seems much, much harder than L2, and I was hoping to get some opinions on how to spruce up my build:
High: 7x Heavy Missile Launchers 1x Small Tractor Beam
Medium: 3x Large Shield Extender 2x Faction-Specific Hardeners 1x Invuln. Field.
Low: 1x Damage Control 1x Ballistic Control 2x PDU
My skills are so-so (Average 3 in Missile/Shields categories). Any advice?
Well here is what I run (limited by skills and cash)
7x Heavy Missle Launcher (load mish specific ammo) Empty 8th Slot
1 Passive Shield Recharger 2 Medium Shield Extenders 2 Mish specific passive resist 1 Medium Shield Booster
2x PDU 2x BCU
No rigs.
There are very few (maybe 2 I can think of) missions I ever need to warp out on. I can run my booster to regain shields and then turn it off to let cap recharge and I run L3's all the time. I have though about testing 2x main mish specific passive resist and 1x secondary mish specific passive resist instead of the shield booster tho.
|
Raekkul
Caldari
|
Posted - 2007.09.20 01:58:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Arkyk
Originally by: Praxis1452 I used to run lvl 3's in my caracal heh. It was easy. only the hardest ones took a while. In a drake it should be in easy mode.
You'd think so, wouldn't you? But man, some of those missions aren't limited so much by my tank as by my damage output. It can take half a reload of ammo to down a single frigate in some of 'em. I was messing around with a Web for a while to help me out, but losing a mid slot to a Web was too much, especially when I then needed to fit an AB/MWD just to get close enough to the little buggers to catch them in it.
Basically, from all the comments here, I looks like I just need to fit some SPRs into my low slots and swap out an LSE for a Shield Recharger and I should be good.
Thanks for the advice, all.
Umm... are you using appropriate missle damage types? I rarely ever take more than a couple (2-4) volleys to down even BC's.
|
Chainsaw Plankton
|
Posted - 2007.09.20 02:32:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Chainsaw Plankton on 20/09/2007 02:34:25 my drakes cap sits nicely with 2 specifics and an invuln.
1)launch drones 2)go afk 3)??? 4)profit
sorry if someone said it but i think the lows go better like 2 spr II, 1 pdu 2, 1 bcu 2 once you get advanced weapon upgrades 2spr II 2 bcuII
bleh active tank on a drake (aka using a shield booster) Yuck! and heh caracel does do nicely on 3s. 5x hml 1 med booster, cap booster, hardeners 2bcu
although the drake has the extra hardeners, passive shield regen, and more launchers so woo drake :D
|
Arc Anna
Caldari Perkone
|
Posted - 2007.09.20 03:27:00 -
[28]
It's kinda odd u can't do L3s easily with a Drake.
Many of the above proposed setups irritate me cuz they suggest you use modules u can't fit due to lack of skills. It irritates me when I read setups I can't fit.
I suggest this fit which u will be able to fit with ur skills:
High: 7x HML (load them with the exact type of missile against the mission's NPC. Eg Blood Raiders use Scourge, Sansha use Thunderbolt, etc)
Mid: 2x main dmg Shield Hardeners (eg EM vs Sansha) 1x secondary dmg Shield Hardener (eg Thermal vs Sansha) or an Invulnerability Field I 1x Shield Recharger (any) 1x Large Shield Extender (any)
Low: 2x BCU (any) 2x Shield Power Relay (any)
U really should be able to fit all the above easily. There's no way a low-QL L3 mission can break this. But u also really should be fitting/buying almost the best your skills and wallet can buy. I say almost cuz it's really pointless to buy the best. eg why Arbalest when a XR-3200 really is enough.
Others will argue for T2, but really it's overkill. The highest paid L3 missions I get now are multi-stage kill missions (like Guristas Extravaganza) where the mission pays ~1.3mil and the bounties add to about 5mil. This is really about the best a L3 can throw at you.
With my Drake without any T2 modules I have zero problems could probably finish it in my sleep. I also didn't pour millions buying the best named. Like you I had skill issues and started out with the very basic modules (HML, BCU, PDU, etc). I didn't buy a single named HML, all were from drops. I currently use 4 XR-3200 and 3 Limos.
This is what you should do in the coming 1 week:
1) Sell modules u won't use, eg frigate modules and guns/lasers. If u're running missions in a Drake, what are you keeping these modules for? Eventual frigate PvP? Ok, then sell the small rocket/missiles. Sell the stuff you don't need. 2) Scrounge up the money to upgrade ur HMLs to named ones. Start with Malkuth or Limos. Don't replace them all at one go, do it incrementally. Who knows u might get nice drops like Limos or XR-3200s. 3) Place buy orders for HMs. 30-35 is a good price to buy, higher than most buyers, lower than most sellers. 4) Earn more money. Learn Light Scout Drones. Use Acolyte/Hobgoblin/Warrior/Hornet drones depending on mission. Slowly add 1/2/3/4 drones as u train. Stop at 4. Light Scout level 1 really should only take u minutes, about 30-40? Use drones to kill frigates. 5) Plan to save about 30-40mil. 6) Train to use Core Defence Field Purger I rigs (Jury Rigging, Shield Rigging). 7) Spend that 30-40mil to buy 3 CDFP. 8) A Drake with 3 CDFP and 3 active hardeners, NO LEVEL THREE MISSION WILL BREAK YOUR TANK, REGARDLESS OF AGGRO.
U ask about cap. Shield Hardeners use cap. In a Passive Tank/Active Resist build, perfect for the Drake, ur cap regen is low. Using 3-4 Shield Hardeners will give ur cap a good workout.
For the Drake, don't do Active Tanking. Active Resist, yes, Passive Tanking yes.
|
Paulo Damarr
|
Posted - 2007.09.20 04:26:00 -
[29]
This setup is not very skill intensive and will get you though no problem
High slots
7x Heavy missile Launchers (Use malkuths if CPU usage is a problem) 1x whatever
Med slots 2x faction specific hardeners 2x FS-9 Regolith Large shield extenders 2x Best shield Recharger you can use
Lows 2x Best SPRs you can use 1x PDS or RCU if you have fitting problems 1x Ballistic control system
Rigs 1x Field extender 2x Field purgers
I recommend 1 field extender and 2 purgers instead of 3 purgers because rigs cant be removed but with careful aggro management you can tank level 3s without the rigs but with this setup later on as you get more skills you can swap the mids around to use a Afterburner and add more BCS to burn through the missions as fast as you can and rely on the rigs more for tank. And definitely dont forget your drones get Drones to lvl 5 and drone interfacing as soon as you get the other skills trained up.
|
The Tzar
|
Posted - 2007.09.20 13:18:00 -
[30]
This setup PWNS lvl 3's no problem. I have fallen asleep many times even on Angel Extravaganza (weakest shield resist) to wake up in the morning and the ship is happily bobbing along to the beat of missile fire.
Highs
7 x Advanced 'Limos' Heavy Missle Launcher 1 x Small 'Knave' Nos (cos I like the graphics!)
Mids
3 x Large Shield Extender II's 1 x Kinetic Shield Resistance Amplifiers 2 x Thermal Shield Resistance Amplifiers (change to 2 x EM if fighting Amarr NPC's)
Lows
4 x Shield Power Relay II's
Rigs
2 x Core Defence Shield Purgers 1 x Shield Extender Rig
Drones
5 x Hobgoblin I's (need to train drones)
Has over 16K shields which recharge in just over 216 seconds. This gives a peak recharge of 190/sec not including resists at 25:74:75:72.
|
|
|
|
|
Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |