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Legitimate question regarding Freighers and Hauler spawns

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PaddyPaddy Nihildarnik Gallente Rampage Eternal Ka-Tet	Posted - 2007.09.19 02:31:00 - [1] Edited by: PaddyPaddy Nihildarnik on 19/09/2007 02:32:25 While the problems of moving vast amounts of resources in 0.0 has gotten easier with the introduction of freighters, there is still one glaring deficiency with their role- the inability to interact with cans/other ship's holds. While I can see that this was probably done for balancing reasons (so as not to make haulers obsolete within rich corps in high sec mining ops) I was wondering how the devs envisioned players dealing with hauler spawns in deep space. For those that havnt been out to 0.0 here is a quick scenario. You are ratting away in your BS in a bountied rat area and you come across a hauler spawn. This basically consists of a few bs/bc and between 1-3 haulers (maybe more, tho ive never encountered more). So you pop the spawn but upon inspecting the wrecks you could find anything from several tens of thousands of units of high end minerals, such as zydrine or you could end up like a friend of mine did yesterday finding approx 100mil units of trit! Now there are several ways of actually moving this stuff but I was wondering if I could be so lucky as to have a dev's response about this. How did the devs envision players moving that amount of trit? Also what is the most common thing most players do when coming across a spawn such as this? Finally how many more pilots would attempt to salvage this load out of trit if one was able to use a frieghter (somehow) to pick it up? Here are some of the ways I can think of doing it, tho most are not time or isk efficient. 1)Forget about the spawn and pop the wrecks, cursing your luck not to get a higher end mineral 2) Quickly put up a sm pos and a Corp Hanger Array and move the trit there, followed by moving the trit to a station via freighter 3) Cyno in a carrier and jump the trit back to a station 4) Physically haul the trit to a station with industrials 5) Use the new Industrial Capital to cyno and move it. Lets work through those choices. 1) I hope was definately not the idea of the spawn by the devs because it is so wasteful. 2) Also seems like alot of effort and may not be applicable if one isnt ratting in their own space or have access to the resources availiable. 3) Is not efficient isk wise- ive done the math, for the most part you would be better off buying the trit at the price of fuel used in cyno's. 4) Also not viable economically- you make more isk continuing to rat. 5) Is only a recent addition so wasnt within the original framework of the mechanics behind the spawn system. So we are still left wondering what is the best way to manage this situation. Id like to see how many people actually do bother with these spawns or whether most people simply pop the wrecks- hopefully we get a response by the devs to see how they would deal with it. The obvious answer to me would be to actually use frieghters to pick up the wrecks but id be interested to see what the devs say about the issue. Peace WithinSo if the theory of relativity is true, shouldn't i arrive at my destination before i warped in the first place? Neon GhostYou do, but this is compensated for by lag
Tasko Pal Heron Corporation	Posted - 2007.09.19 02:50:00 - [2] I think 4) is quite viable. Haul trit to a nearby station using industrials. For example, I have a 11,700 m3 industrial (mediocre industrial 3 plus 3 cargohold expanders 1 and 3 giant cans). That's between 2.3 and 3.5 mil isk per trip. And a round trip takes around 3 minutes. So that's a rate of 40-70 mil isk/hour. You should be able to beat 20k m3 cargo (ignoring cans) on a top level indy with modest modules (and no riggings). That can move a lot of trit rather quickly (4-6 mil isk per trip), or 80-120 mil isk per hour). No way are you getting that much from ratting.
Phyrr Minmatar Firing Squad Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.09.19 02:54:00 - [3] My mastodon can take 30k m3 without rigs, just haul it :) The odds on me being here are rather slim evolutionary speaking, yet in the infinite bounds of probability my being here is a certainty.
Nyphur Pillowsoft Total Comfort	Posted - 2007.09.19 02:56:00 - [4] A lot of pilots will just take the highends and give a shout out to alliancemates that there's tons of trit up for grabs. Eve-Tanking.com - We're sorry, something happened.
Rooker Lysian Enterprises	Posted - 2007.09.19 03:00:00 - [5] #4 is how we used to do it. It was a corp rule that all hauler spawns be donated to corp, so somebody would yell in corp chat for hauler pilots, pop the rats and guard the haulers until it was hauled off. Most everybody could fly some sort of hauler and it usually didn't take long. -- This Space For Rent
syphurous Gallente	Posted - 2007.09.19 03:11:00 - [6] Iteron 5's can get two jet cans if fitted correctly, skill up. ___ Too Many Anchored Cans
gesthapto lapenty	Posted - 2007.09.19 03:12:00 - [7] No. 4 only works if your close to a station system - which as often as not is not the case. Currently I would imagine the VAST majority of players leave the wrecks and inform corp/alliance members there is some trit spare. Hauling these things is not an option for 98%+ of eve, nor would that same percentage be interested in most cases. Would be interested to see how the new cap miner thingy works.
PaddyPaddy Nihildarnik Gallente Rampage Eternal Ka-Tet	Posted - 2007.09.19 03:19:00 - [8] im surprised that the first 3 responses all favoured actually hauling this amount. I think your estimates of only taking a round trip of 3 min is way off. It would be more like around 5-8min for a drop, say 6 jumps out from an outpost, meaning 12 jump round trip. Even if you are hauling 3-4mil trit a load thats a combined jump estimate of somewhere around 20 loads or 20x12 jumps= 240 jumps in total. All suggestions have also agreed that it would be a combined effort to move it in any orderly or efficient effort. Therefore the reward would also have to be split. Considering a 12 jump journey takes around 12min (approx 1min per system- allowing for the time needed to go back and get a hauler in the first place) lets say how much would you earn ratting in that 12min? Anywhere from 1-3 spawns- hence approx 5-10mil isk. Yeah I suppose its a bit better isk/hr than ratting, but considering the effort etc, is it worth it? Was this the intended mechanic of picking up the loot? Or did ccp have something easier in mind? Peace WithinSo if the theory of relativity is true, shouldn't i arrive at my destination before i warped in the first place? Neon GhostYou do, but this is compensated for by lag
PaddyPaddy Nihildarnik Gallente Rampage Eternal Ka-Tet	Posted - 2007.09.19 03:20:00 - [9] Originally by: gesthapto lapenty No. 4 only works if your close to a station system - which as often as not is not the case. Currently I would imagine the VAST majority of players leave the wrecks and inform corp/alliance members there is some trit spare. Hauling these things is not an option for 98%+ of eve, nor would that same percentage be interested in most cases. Would be interested to see how the new cap miner thingy works. This is also my take on the issue Peace WithinSo if the theory of relativity is true, shouldn't i arrive at my destination before i warped in the first place? Neon GhostYou do, but this is compensated for by lag
sableye principle of motion Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.09.19 03:29:00 - [10] I agree in a way it only works out well if your maximum 1 jump from station unless your guy with lots of charters like me. Join The Fight With Promo Today
Nyphur Pillowsoft Total Comfort	Posted - 2007.09.19 03:41:00 - [11] Originally by: sableye I agree in a way it only works out well if your maximum 1 jump from station unless your guy with lots of charters like me. What about using a small POS in the system to dump the minerals at and a freighter to collect? Freighters can access their cargohold at POS. Eve-Tanking.com - We're sorry, something happened.
Maglorre	Posted - 2007.09.19 03:44:00 - [12] Originally by: PaddyPaddy Nihildarnik 1)Forget about the spawn and pop the wrecks, cursing your luck not to get a higher end mineral 2) Quickly put up a sm pos and a Corp Hanger Array and move the trit there, followed by moving the trit to a station via freighter 3) Cyno in a carrier and jump the trit back to a station 4) Physically haul the trit to a station with industrials 5) Use the new Industrial Capital to cyno and move it. 6) Inform corp/alliance mates where it is. If you have carebears in your corp/alliance they will drop everything and fight each other to pick it up (note, if you don't have carebears in your corp and you are too lazy to do it then tough, it goes to waste). Also note that your average 0.0 carebear will have transport or industrial ships that can take at least 30k a trip (my Occator is just a shade over 35k) up to about 50k for a T2 rigged and expanded Iteron V Personally I prefer your option 2. Alternatively your corp may well have a series of small POS that have been placed in the most popular ratting systems to give the carebears somewhere safe to hide when those nasty red people show up to interrupt them and to allow you to haul the ore to the POS and then move it back to a station at your leisure (I loved it when they changed freighters to allow POS interaction for exactly this reason).
PaddyPaddy Nihildarnik Gallente Rampage Eternal Ka-Tet	Posted - 2007.09.20 03:43:00 - [13] I was wondering about the hanger array of a carrier- can a freighter access the carriers hanger array? If so it would be a three step process of cynoing a carrier, moving a freighter in system and simply shuffling between the two. Ratter>>Carrier>>>Freighter Peace WithinSo if the theory of relativity is true, shouldn't i arrive at my destination before i warped in the first place? Neon GhostYou do, but this is compensated for by lag
Maglorre	Posted - 2007.09.20 06:02:00 - [14] Originally by: PaddyPaddy Nihildarnik I was wondering about the hanger array of a carrier- can a freighter access the carriers hanger array? If so it would be a three step process of cynoing a carrier, moving a freighter in system and simply shuffling between the two. Ratter>>Carrier>>>Freighter I've not tested it but I would assume not. The patch notes mentioned that you needed to be within X metres of a control tower. It may well work at a POS (accessing the carrier's hangar) but I'd be very surprised if the devs overlooked the loophole you are thinking of
PaddyPaddy Nihildarnik Gallente Rampage Eternal Ka-Tet	Posted - 2007.09.20 11:59:00 - [15] Originally by: Maglorre Originally by: PaddyPaddy Nihildarnik I was wondering about the hanger array of a carrier- can a freighter access the carriers hanger array? If so it would be a three step process of cynoing a carrier, moving a freighter in system and simply shuffling between the two. Ratter>>Carrier>>>Freighter I've not tested it but I would assume not. The patch notes mentioned that you needed to be within X metres of a control tower. It may well work at a POS (accessing the carrier's hangar) but I'd be very surprised if the devs overlooked the loophole you are thinking of Id hardly call risking 3bil+ in ships to get 200-300mil in loot a loophole but ill test it out anyway and check the results :) Peace WithinSo if the theory of relativity is true, shouldn't i arrive at my destination before i warped in the first place? Neon GhostYou do, but this is compensated for by lag
Ralitge boyter Minmatar	Posted - 2007.09.20 12:56:00 - [16] We used to do the following (also a 0.0 alliance) Depending on the system and the current war situation. - Pick all the stuff out of the wreck and drop it in one can, then call in a few mates and haul it back home. - Take the most valuable minerals and drop a line in alliance chat telling people where their free 200mil can be found, then just continue ratting. Of course I am still of the opinion that CCP with the wrecks now should be able to alter the mechanics in such a way that a freighter can take from a wreck but not from a can. That way a freighter will not be usable for mining but it will be wonderful for these types of spawns. ------------------------------------------- Should you disagree with me, well I guess that is because I disagree with you. If you have a problem with that please feel free not to tell me.
shibbymonkey Minmatar Spartan Dynamics	Posted - 2007.09.20 13:51:00 - [17] Originally by: Phyrr My mastodon can take 30k m3 without rigs, just haul it :) curious-what config/skills are you using on your mastodon, without rigs,that give you 30km3? thx --------------------------------------- Ever in search of new ways to turn ISK into noise and smoke.
Princess Jodi Vendetta Underground Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.09.20 14:04:00 - [18] Haul it in. I also agree with the poster who stated that all Hauler spawns are donated to the Corp. We never had problems getting the spawns hauled - just stated that things like that were where all the free ammo and ships mods came from, so everyone tended to help. But... that was before we moved to the Drone Regions. NO HAULER SPAWNS IN THE DRONE REGIONS!!! Yet another example of how the Drone Regions are screwed. CCP, Fix the Drone Regions! Over a year and they still get the shaft on almost every issue!

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