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Nexus Strider
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Posted - 2007.09.20 03:04:00 -
[1]
Every single Battlecruiser and Command Ship has a drone or damage bonus that applies to all drone and ammo damage types, except the Drake and Nighthawk, which are limited to only Kinetic(Scourge missile) damage Bonus.
When CPP decided to raise the recharge rate of Battlecruisers and Command Ships they were targeting to weaken Caldari Battlecruisers and Command Ships, however they did not take in affect that those who where using BCU's to Make up for the weak Damage Bonus of a Drake and Nighthhawk would have to give up a slot they would use for a BCU to make up for the weakened passive shield tank that CPP decided.
This Argument is not about the passive shield tank of Caldari Battlecruisers; It is about the limited Damage Bonus the Drake and Nighthawk have.
If you PvP, and your opponent knows you are in a Drake or Nighthawk, They only have to raise their kinetic resistance, to nullify any damage bonus; where as you, in a Drake or Nighthawk, are left to mercy of your opponents choice of ammo or drone damage type; as they get a bonus damage irregardless of the type of damage.
It's time for CPP to Fix the Damage Bonus of a Drake and Nighthawk to all types of damage, like every other battlecruiser and command ship.
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draken shugar
Malicious Intentions
Cult of War
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Posted - 2007.09.20 03:12:00 -
[2]
pure dmg bonus please not just kinetic
I put things in dead people. |
MyOwnSling
Gallente
RONA Corporation
FREGE Alliance
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Posted - 2007.09.20 03:17:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: Nexus Strider
Every single Battlecruiser and Command Ship has a drone or damage bonus that applies to all drone and ammo damage types, except the Drake and Nighthawk, which are limited to only Kinetic(Scourge missile) damage Bonus.
When CPP decided to raise the recharge rate of Battlecruisers and Command Ships they were targeting to weaken Caldari Battlecruisers and Command Ships, however they did not take in affect that those who where using BCU's to Make up for the weak Damage Bonus of a Drake and Nighthhawk would have to give up a slot they would use for a BCU to make up for the weakened passive shield tank that CPP decided.
This Argument is not about the passive shield tank of Caldari Battlecruisers; It is about the limited Damage Bonus the Drake and Nighthawk have.
If you PvP, and your opponent knows you are in a Drake or Nighthawk, They only have to raise their kinetic resistance, to nullify any damage bonus; where as you, in a Drake or Nighthawk, are left to mercy of your opponents choice of ammo or drone damage type; as they get a bonus damage irregardless of the type of damage.
It's time for CPP to Fix the Damage Bonus of a Drake and Nighthawk to all types of damage, like every other battlecruiser and command ship.
There are only 2 ships in the classes you listed (BC and CS) that have any aptitude with drones. The myrmidon and eos. The eos doesn't even get a drone damage bonus and the myrmidon only has the room to fit a single set of heavies, so either it splits its damage across multiple types or it only gets one damage type. The eos only gets a bonus to hybrids (thermal and kinetic) along with the brutix and astarte. So, on those points ships, I think your argument is flawed. It would still seem to apply to all minmatar ships in those classes and the one amarr command ship. However, saying that "every single BC and CS" gets a bonuse to all damage types is an exaggeration.
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Stop whining.
Originally by: Puupuu
dude... your face...
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Nexus Strider
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Posted - 2007.09.20 03:20:00 -
[4]
Sorry meant CCP, tired
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Nexus Strider
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Posted - 2007.09.20 03:21:00 -
[5]
Getting a Larger Drone Capacity, Irregardless of Drone Damage Type, is a Damage Bonus
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MyOwnSling
Gallente
RONA Corporation
FREGE Alliance
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Posted - 2007.09.20 03:28:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Nexus Strider
Getting a Larger Drone Capacity, Irregardless of Drone Damage Type, is a Damage Bonus
Ok, I can agree with that, it gives it the option to field more than a single set of medium drones. If you use medium drones in this case, then an eos can indeed choose any damage type, but 5 unbonused medium drones will not be anywhere near the bulk of the dps of an eos, that will come from blasters.
Still, this leaves the other 3 gallente ships of that class and 3 of the 4 amarr. I still think you need to rethink your argument. I am not against changing the drake bonus, but there must be a compelling reason for it.
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Stop whining.
Originally by: Puupuu
dude... your face...
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Nexus Strider
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Posted - 2007.09.20 04:59:00 -
[7]
And what's with the changing of the Battlecruiser Damage bonus when flying a Nighthawk, every other ship retains is Battlecruiser skill Bonus when moving up to a Command Ship, but you lose the Kinetic Damage Bonus in a Nighthawk, Until you trian Command Ship Level 5, Which takes another 1.5 Months. Why does the Battlecruiser Bonus Change in a Nighthawk????
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MyOwnSling
Gallente
RONA Corporation
FREGE Alliance
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Posted - 2007.09.20 07:32:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Nexus Strider
And what's with the changing of the Battlecruiser Damage bonus when flying a Nighthawk, every other ship retains is Battlecruiser skill Bonus when moving up to a Command Ship, but you lose the Kinetic Damage Bonus in a Nighthawk, Until you trian Command Ship Level 5, Which takes another 1.5 Months. Why does the Battlecruiser Bonus Change in a Nighthawk????
The night hawk is a missile boat, it doesn't need a hybrid optimal bonus for a single turret. Instead it gets a rof bonus for missiles, which applies for all missile damage types. The vulture is the command ship that retains the ferox's BC bonuses because it has more turret slots than the nighthawk. It's just a matter of the roles these ships fit into. Is it consistent with the other races? It would appear not, but does it really matter? Do you really want both caldari CS to be rail boats? I wouldn't, but I don't fly caldari.
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Stop whining.
Originally by: Puupuu
dude... your face...
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Callthetruth
Caldari
Drunken Ratbags Inc
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Posted - 2007.09.20 09:09:00 -
[9]
perhaps a navy drake could have a slightly higher bonus to cap recharge
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William Alex
Viscosity
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Posted - 2007.09.20 12:59:00 -
[10]
Please remember that changing the bonus on a ship to make it the 'same bonus' as other ships is not a very good way to go about achieving game balance.
The dev's know this and that's why they don't just make everything they same, they weigh all the factors in and if something is needed they do what they can. Now after saying that it's true they aren't pefect and do make mistakes which lead to changes which lead to more changes and re-balances but it's a system that's constantly in flux.
Stating "Give my ship have the same bonus' as the other ships!" is a fast track to causing more imbalance.
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Tanx0r
Caldari
Mothers of Invention
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Posted - 2007.09.20 17:04:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Tanx0r on 20/09/2007 17:06:54
Hmmmmmz... Nighthawk is for killing support and tanking rather large elephants with funny hats on. What it comes down to is Eve is a team sport and some ships are just not meant to be the damage dealers.
I don't really get your point, if you want to do more damage it means you simply chose the wrong ship to do pvp in imho? Grab an Absolution instead tbh.
Edit: Now that I come to think of it both ships you mentioned have tanks that are second to none. You somehow failed to mention this. If these caldari ships get the firepower all the other ships would have to get their tanking abilities upgraded and that makes the whole issue rather pointless doesn't it?
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Ferocious FeAr
Eternity INC.
Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2007.09.20 18:13:00 -
[12]
If you want it to have bonus to all damage types that means you have to change every ship that has kinetic damage bonus to all damage types. Would be nice to have.
Don't hate me, learn to love me |
Verlaine Glariant
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Posted - 2007.09.20 20:16:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Verlaine Glariant on 20/09/2007 20:18:17
Nighthawk is built for tanking and support, but I must agree that it needs more DPS.
/signed.
Verlaine Glariant. Tactical Weapons Specialist. |
Amy Wang
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Posted - 2007.09.20 22:52:00 -
[14]
Missiles work totally different from turrets and are the only weapon system that can really change damage types freely (no, before you start, projectile weapons cant and drones are limited in choices with drone space as well), having a kinetic only bonus kinda balances this advantage out.
A damage bonus to all missile types on the missile bc would have to be compensated with the loss of a launcher slot I guess.
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kimish
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Posted - 2007.09.21 07:18:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Amy Wang
Missiles work totally different from turrets and are the only weapon system that can really change damage types freely (no, before you start, projectile weapons cant and drones are limited in choices with drone space as well), having a kinetic only bonus kinda balances this advantage out.
A damage bonus to all missile types on the missile bc would have to be compensated with the loss of a launcher slot I guess.
first of all so are missiles by cargo hold, if you use the right seize drones on a drone ship, it have more then enough space for the 4 different dmg types.
and it is not freely it takes 10seconds no matter which siaze ship your using, this means on cruiser/frig seize the fight can be very much decided at the time you realize which dmg to go for and switch.
the fact that they can have all types of dmg only does one thing "they can gamble about dmg type" although even here most of there missile spec boats get a specific bonus to kenetic which means that choosing anything else will effectively remove those 50% dmg increase some ships have, that is very harsh.
the dps of the missiles are very much in line with that of long range turret dps.
which means that every other type of "ammo" have been removed, and the decision to use a shorter type (chose really, how often do you need to fire those 130k+ with cruise or 80+ with heavy.
all missile boats need to have there bonuses set to ALL missile of their seize, like all heavy/assault missiles or all cruise/torp missiles etc.
unless of cause your willing as a turret user to only get your dmg bonuses for the turret as long as you use the longest range ammo and if you use any other ammo the bonus doesn't add to it.
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"When the moderators are gone, the trolls dances on the table." |
kimish
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Posted - 2007.09.21 07:22:00 -
[16]
Originally by: MyOwnSling
Originally by: Nexus Strider
The eos doesn't even get a drone damage bonus and the myrmidon only has the room to fit a single set of heavies, so either it splits its damage across
loled!!!
only have the room... ONLY ?=!?!?!?
okey sure thing mate, let me equip ONLY one full set of cruise missiles on my drake, then i am happy ^^
since this IS what your doing with heavy drones and don't forget to let me have my full and maximum tank while i am doing this.
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"When the moderators are gone, the trolls dances on the table." |
Kerdrak
3B Legio IX
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2007.09.21 09:14:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Nexus Strider
If you PvP, and your opponent knows you are in a Drake or Nighthawk, They only have to raise their kinetic resistance
Yes, everytime I hear or see a Drake I run to the nearest station to fit zillions of kinetic hardeners!!!!
CCP please create a new forum for whiners!!!
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MyOwnSling
Gallente
RONA Corporation
FREGE Alliance
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Posted - 2007.09.21 15:47:00 -
[18]
Originally by: kimish
Originally by: MyOwnSling
Originally by: Nexus Strider
The eos doesn't even get a drone damage bonus and the myrmidon only has the room to fit a single set of heavies, so either it splits its damage across
loled!!!
only have the room... ONLY ?=!?!?!?
okey sure thing mate, let me equip ONLY one full set of cruise missiles on my drake, then i am happy ^^
since this IS what your doing with heavy drones and don't forget to let me have my full and maximum tank while i am doing this.
Drones are not a BS sized weapon class, I could do more dps in a brutix with blasters than a myrmidon with drones alone. Not to mention drones can die while your missile launchers cannot. Believe it or not, you ARE sacrificing something for putting a full set of heavies on. As I said, you only have one damamge type (or it's split) and you can lose dps rather easily. If you put medium drones in then you can achieve a more diverse damage selection, but you lose a lot of dps.
Also, you can't compare drone bay size to cargo hold size. Every missile ship has enough cargo for a lot of each of the different missiles types it can use. No drone ship can carry 4 sets of heavies, and no cruisers/BC sized ship (aside from ishtar and eos of course, if trained up properly) can carry 4 sets of medium drones.
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Stop whining.
Originally by: Puupuu
dude... your face...
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fire 59
Destructive Influence
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.09.21 16:21:00 -
[19]
I was going to write a post in disagreement to the op whine, but instead i'll just say 'waaaaa waaa' .
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Aramendel
Amarr
Coreli Corporation
Exuro Mortis
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Posted - 2007.09.21 17:18:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Nexus Strider
Every single Battlecruiser and Command Ship has a drone or damage bonus that applies to all drone and ammo damage types, except the Drake and Nighthawk, which are limited to only Kinetic(Scourge missile) damage Bonus.
The drake & nighthawk are in no way different there. ALL (well, almost all) ships/weaponsystems which have variable damagetypes deal less dps when using non-racial damage types.
Drake/NH deal 100% dps with kinetic, 80% dps with non-kinetic
Drone ships loose dps when using different drones. Thermals have the biggest dps. Kinetic deal 90% of thermal dps. Explosive deal 80%. EM deal 70%.
Projectile ships loose dps when using non kin/exp ammo. Phased plasma and EMP loose 10% dps compared to hybrid and laserammo of the same range since those ammos have less damage/shot. The damagereduction is not that high as with missiles and drones, but projectile ammos are no mono-damagetype ammos either. And are not available as t2 version.
The only exeptions from the "reduced dps with non-racial damage" rule are the raven and the new khanid missile ships (which have in exchange a shortrange only dps bonus).
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Reatu Krentor
Minmatar
Void Spiders
Fate Weavers
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Posted - 2007.09.22 01:18:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Aramendel
The drake & nighthawk are in no way different there. ALL (well, almost all) ships/weaponsystems which have variable damagetypes deal less dps when using non-racial damage types.
Drake/NH deal 100% dps with kinetic, 80% dps with non-kinetic
Drone ships loose dps when using different drones. Thermals have the biggest dps. Kinetic deal 90% of thermal dps. Explosive deal 80%. EM deal 70%.
Projectile ships loose dps when using non kin/exp ammo. Phased plasma and EMP loose 10% dps compared to hybrid and laserammo of the same range since those ammos have less damage/shot. The damagereduction is not that high as with missiles and drones, but projectile ammos are no mono-damagetype ammos either. And are not available as t2 version.
The only exeptions from the "reduced dps with non-racial damage" rule are the raven and the new khanid missile ships (which have in exchange a shortrange only dps bonus).
'nuff said.
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stuff |
Arana Tellen
Gallente
The Blackguard Wolves
Knights Of the Southerncross
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Posted - 2007.09.22 01:51:00 -
[22]
The astarte only gets a bonus to kin/therm 
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