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Calysia Caldari Zooner Corp	Posted - 2007.09.21 06:29:00 - [1] This thread goes around the real dps!? is it always as much as many of you say? I talk about rating fits! I often read posts in there forum where people say things like this "my armageddon does about 1200 dps! i¦am laughing about your ship!" So is this always realistic? i often read some fittings and if i would fit my ship like that i would only do around 300 dps. I know my skills are are not as high as the peoples which are postings things like that but i often think that it never could be that damage if i would have all skills at lvl5. maybe some fitting do damage like this but how needs a ship which damage is so high but runs out of cap in about 2 minutes? i am a noob at some skills in this way but is this always realistic?
Pinky Denmark The Cursed Navy	Posted - 2007.09.21 06:45:00 - [2] It's measured against 0% resistance and you cannot get a 100% accurate DPS number when you have variables as gun-hits... Otherwise they always measure incl. drones and at a target sitting still inside optimal etc etc There are other variables than DPS like ships that are capable of tanking better than others, damage/resist-types, tracking, speed, signature radious etc etc Just easier to compare DPS as thats what matters to most people - I'm a nice guy!! MOA is NOT UGLY!!! It's A FREAK SHOW!!!!
Janus Duo Gallente Psilocybin and Wine	Posted - 2007.09.21 06:59:00 - [3] Problem is that you're never gonna be sitting EXACTLY at your optimal with 0 transversal/radial/whatever, and you still hit in falloff but for reduced damage. Also drones deal with the same issues as turrets and are somewhat bugged in some circumstances where they dictate their optimal range incorrectly. Turrets will cause wrecking blows when you're not even in range or being tracked well at all sometimes. As for missiles your actual damage is reduced by signature radius of the ship and their velocity. Your missiles always hit but against a sig small enough going fast enough they hit for 0 damage. Also skills like Target Navigation Prediction come into effect with some missiles. Its too complex to come up with a precise number, but it is always less than the quickfit number, sometimes significantly.
Pontifex Tellanius S-44	Posted - 2007.09.21 09:03:00 - [4] You will never get your theoretical DPS in a real fight but niether will you opponent, and in general all turret ships in the same ship class will do a comparable proportion of thier max DPS. Therefore it is worth comparing DPS, even though noone ever does that kind of damage except for some very short moments during a fight. In general DPS is interesting but it doesn't tell the whole story and you should always consider things like range, tracking, cap sustainability, tank and purpose of the ship when comparing setups.
Reem Fairchild	Posted - 2007.09.21 09:39:00 - [5] Originally by: Janus Duo Problem is that you're never gonna be sitting EXACTLY at your optimal You don't have to. Guns don't hit best at their optimal. They hit best within their optimal. That is at any range from 0 to optimal. The reason it sometimes seems differently is because tracking is more difficult the closer you are.
Reem Fairchild	Posted - 2007.09.21 09:41:00 - [6] Edited by: Reem Fairchild on 21/09/2007 09:42:08 Originally by: Calysia i am a noob at some skills in this way but is this always realistic? With tech 2 weapons, tech 2 or faction ammo, and high or even maxed out skills you can get a LOT more damage output than someone with low skills and tech 1 or named weapons.
Yadee	Posted - 2007.09.21 09:53:00 - [7] The dps number people splurt out is usually from EFT, and with "all skills at V" option, which is a false number Theres either a bug with the program, or using some non existant skills or something, because if you manually set all skills affecting a weapon module to 5, and compare it to the "all skills at V" option, the latter gives a quite much higher dps number, where it gets these numbers from i have no idea also, that dps number is purely theoretical and on paper, but that kinda goes for all ships, so while they say they might do 1200 dps and you do 300, what that really means is that they will do 4 times as much damage as you in game in equal circumstances, but that the actual numbers are mumbo jumbo
Reem Fairchild	Posted - 2007.09.21 09:59:00 - [8] Originally by: Yadee The dps number people splurt out is usually from EFT, and with "all skills at V" option, which is a false number Theres either a bug with the program, or using some non existant skills or something, because if you manually set all skills affecting a weapon module to 5, and compare it to the "all skills at V" option, the latter gives a quite much higher dps number, where it gets these numbers from i have no idea also, that dps number is purely theoretical and on paper, but that kinda goes for all ships, so while they say they might do 1200 dps and you do 300, what that really means is that they will do 4 times as much damage as you in game in equal circumstances, but that the actual numbers are mumbo jumbo It's possible to do the math by looking at the base stats of guns, ammo, and drones and adding on all the skills bonuses. And if you have the ship fitted yourself you can just check the weapons and add it all up.
kessah Blood Corsair's The Red Skull	Posted - 2007.09.21 10:34:00 - [9] Originally by: Reem Fairchild Originally by: Janus Duo Problem is that you're never gonna be sitting EXACTLY at your optimal You don't have to. Guns don't hit best at their optimal. They hit best within their optimal. That is at any range from 0 to optimal. The reason it sometimes seems differently is because tracking is more difficult the closer you are. thats is very incorrect. they hit best about 10% +- there optimal. Use Megapulse and see how wrong that statement is. Yes you mentioned tracking there, but the question was when you hit 'best' quite a generic term when you mention these topics. -------------------------------------------------------- [Video] Forever Pirate 3
Reem Fairchild	Posted - 2007.09.21 10:56:00 - [10] Originally by: kessah thats is very incorrect. they hit best about 10% +- there optimal. Use Megapulse and see how wrong that statement is. Yes you mentioned tracking there, but the question was when you hit 'best' quite a generic term when you mention these topics. No, you are wrong. Without any tracking issues (both ships being still) you hiot equally well all the way from 0 to your optimal. Try it out and you will see. From optimal to falloff, accuracy then gradually drops to 50% (again, not counting tracking) at optimal+falloff, and from there on it gradually drops with range all the way out to infinity never quite reaching 0 (just getting ever closer to 0). The only reason you usually don't hit well at close range is because of tracking. But trackimng and optimal are two totally different things. Tracking (if you, your target, or both are going fast enough) could easily make it so you can't hit at all when EXACTLY at your optimal while being able to hit to a certain extent at (for example) optimal+falloff where tracking becomes easier.
Calysia Caldari Zooner Corp SynchronizerZ	Posted - 2007.09.21 11:47:00 - [11] So i know the things about tracking optimal and so on, but the base is everytime the same i think. peoples are posting that they do much more dps then another guy. So if i would fit the same as the other person in EFT with my skill an i became about 250 dps and the other guy gets about 750 dps, think it couldn¦t be real. Ok he hast better skills then me, but 200% more dmg only with skill is a little bit exorbitant and faked. what often happens is that peoples are asking for fitting to hunt npc¦s and peoples are posting that they would do 1000dps in a armageddon for example. thats a little bit overcharged for a ratting/mission ship were you can¦t fit it like you do in fleet battle (long range and pure dmg). alone tanking would coast you the slots you need to boost your dmg and range so you never get those in a normal fitting for ratting and missions. especially when you hunt alone!
Mad Axe Caldari The Knights Of Camelot Praesidium Libertatis	Posted - 2007.09.21 12:19:00 - [12] Usaly you get bonuses like 25%dmg/or RoF for ship at lvl 5, 25%dmg from weapon spec, 10%dmg from t2 spec, 15%dmg from surgical strike, 20% RoF from rapid fire, 10% RoF from gunnery 5. Then you add t2 dmg mods or 3 which 10.5% RoF + 10% dmg, the third one still gives you over 10%dmg, Faction ammo which has 15% more dmg then t1. T2 heavy drones do alot of dps. This all adds up especialy since RoF gives a greater dps boost then pure +dmg. So battleships + demios can do 1000+ DPS in most cases with great skills. But as the people allredy said thats basicly on structure without a damage control. 1k DPS will become 250 on someone with 80% resists in the questioned area.
Acoco Osiris Gallente Sublime.	Posted - 2007.09.21 12:32:00 - [13] Originally by: Calysia So i know the things about tracking optimal and so on, but the base is everytime the same i think. peoples are posting that they do much more dps then another guy. So if i would fit the same as the other person in EFT with my skill an i became about 250 dps and the other guy gets about 750 dps, think it couldn¦t be real. Ok he hast better skills then me, but 200% more dmg only with skill is a little bit exorbitant and faked. what often happens is that peoples are asking for fitting to hunt npc¦s and peoples are posting that they would do 1000dps in a armageddon for example. thats a little bit overcharged for a ratting/mission ship were you can¦t fit it like you do in fleet battle (long range and pure dmg). alone tanking would coast you the slots you need to boost your dmg and range so you never get those in a normal fitting for ratting and missions. especially when you hunt alone! Oh, it's possible. Using a T2 gun on a ship with a 5%/level damage bonus, maxed skills, and 2 +5% implants, you can get your gun to deal 3x more DPS than an unmodified gun. A magstab II increases your DPS by 23% (and this is not added, it's 1.23x previous DPS), the second gives about 85% of the bonus, and a third gets about 50% normal bonus (any more and it gets a little wimpy). Also, add in a few T2 drones with Drone Interfacing V, and your DPS shoots up even more. ------------------------------ One more soldier off to war... And one Velator in my hangars.
Aferah	Posted - 2007.09.21 12:37:00 - [14] DPS is only theoretical !!! you count it: damage by charge x dmg multi x how many weapons ( same mounted) / rof = DPS example: 28 x 5.4 x 6 / 2.54 = 357.16 and thats dps but lot of ppl dont divide it by rof and with same setup they r getting just 28 x 5.4 x 6 = 907.2 and thats theoretical damage per voley !!! dpv ? :D for exapmle my abbadon t2 does about 3200 dpv ( per voley) but its about 400 dps ( per second) and i would like to c calculations of ship doing 1200dps but yet again dps or dpv is only in theory, now why ? tracking issues !!! exaple gun have 5.4 dmg multi and have crystal ( or ammo) tha does 28 ( total) damage so 5.4 x 28 = 151 but u wont c those all the time ( wreckings r diffrent story) why ? 1 - tracking ( u may get that 150 a shot or 40 or miss target completly) 2 - resists - it may have 0% and 150 will do 150 or 90 when 150 will do 15 dmg so real damage done by anything in his game vary with each time by multiple things so even u have 600 dps on ur mega, that would mean and ceptor down in 2 seconds or cruzer in 6-7 yeah :D do dps or dpv is only in theory, its way to compare each weapons ships but never go by that in fight anything else ?
Mad Axe Caldari The Knights Of Camelot Praesidium Libertatis	Posted - 2007.09.21 12:45:00 - [15] Hyperion, battleship 0, 8x neutron blasters t2, 0 gunnery, antimatter ammo. 0 skills:205 DPS BS 5: 256 DPS Gunnery 5: 284 DPS Hybrid 5: 356 DPS Blaster spec 5: 391 DPS Surgical Strike 5: 450 Rapid Fire 5: 562 CN Antimatter: 647 1x MFS t2: 795 2x MFS t2: 950 3x MFS t2: 1069 t2 ROF rig: 1160 4x T2 ogre: 1413 DPS (253 with max skills) 1625 Overloaded. So you see before we even changed to faction ammo and started pluging in Magnetic Field Stabs/rigs and drones, skills gave you almost 300% more dps. But its about 200% more becouse you cant fly a tier 3 battleship with large guns like i started out. (sorry if someone might find this an annoying post but i wanted to see for myself and i just copied in the numbers, this is using EFT)
Calysia Caldari Zooner Corp SynchronizerZ	Posted - 2007.09.21 12:47:00 - [16] when you add all your percentages together you wont come to about 200% and my skills are not at zero. i donthave them all at lvl 5 but i have mostly all of them an most i got about lvl 3. so the jump thru lvl5 isn¦t as much as big you say. maybe i can to dps about 1000+ but not in a ship fittet for hunting in 0.0 or running lvl 3-4 missions. maybe when you have mostly no tanking but thats not the really best idea when hunting at 0.0 (alone!! the world looks different i you have someone tanking for ya!) so what my meaning of the hole thing is, that the most peoples are not talking about the sence of the topic and question someone asked.
Acoco Osiris Gallente Sublime.	Posted - 2007.09.21 12:56:00 - [17] You don't add them. They are geometrically applied (as in multiplied/divided depending on the bonus type). For instance, the boni for Surgical Strikes V, Gunnery V and Large Hyrid Turrets would combine like this: Base * 1.15 * 1.25 / 0.9 Very few boni are arithmetically applied (added/subtracted). ------------------------------ One more soldier off to war... And one Velator in my hangars.
Xanstin Gallente	Posted - 2007.09.21 13:00:00 - [18] Originally by: Calysia when you add all your percentages together you wont come to about 200% and my skills are not at zero. i donthave them all at lvl 5 but i have mostly all of them an most i got about lvl 3. so the jump thru lvl5 isn¦t as much as big you say. maybe i can to dps about 1000+ but not in a ship fittet for hunting in 0.0 or running lvl 3-4 missions. maybe when you have mostly no tanking but thats not the really best idea when hunting at 0.0 (alone!! the world looks different i you have someone tanking for ya!) so what my meaning of the hole thing is, that the most peoples are not talking about the sence of the topic and question someone asked. Whether you think so or not, 1k dps+ on a geddon is achievable, as it is with abaddon and all of the gallente BS. You very rarely tank in those fits, and you very rarely need to. And they're PVP fits, not mission fits. If your support is at level 3 you should not be PVPing in a ship that could do 1200 dps (like a geddon) because you're not using it's biggest strength at all. EFT is not bugged, it's DPS calculations are accurate.
Yadee	Posted - 2007.09.21 14:37:00 - [19] I managed to get 1859 dps on a CNR with ludicrously expensive mods, and overheating, and 5 medium drones, with all skills at V in EFT of course, anyone taking a raven with modules worth 20 bil out deserves to do a lot of damage ;D
goodby4u Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.09.21 14:43:00 - [20] Realistic(ie tracking etc)dps is different. __________________________________________ Yes it is great being amarr. I am minmatar,fly amarr,use gellente drones and am in caldari space.
Janus Duo Gallente Psilocybin and Wine	Posted - 2007.09.21 15:43:00 - [21] Originally by: Reem Fairchild The only reason you usually don't hit well at close range is because of tracking. But trackimng and optimal are two totally different things. Not true. Optimal is a value calculated with tracking.
Reem Fairchild	Posted - 2007.09.21 16:40:00 - [22] Originally by: Janus Duo Originally by: Reem Fairchild The only reason you usually don't hit well at close range is because of tracking. But trackimng and optimal are two totally different things. Not true. Optimal is a value calculated with tracking. If you mean that they are both used together in the equation that determines how likely you are to hit, then yes you are right. But that doesn't contradict anything I said. If you mean that tracking ability is determined by optimal range or the other way around, then you are wrong.

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