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Avoiding return warp after login

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Sophia Germain Fluxion	Posted - 2007.09.22 09:36:00 - [1] Hi, first of all, my apologies if a thread on this issue already exists. I didn't find one with a quick glance at the forums. The question is simple - Is it an exploit to avoid warping back to the spot where you logged out? The way I've witnessed people doing this is by repeatedly logging in and out right when they've entered the game and are automatically being warped back to the spot they logged out at. What this seems to accomplish is that they end up at a different spot in space after a couple of logins. A GM clarification on this issue would be very much appreciated.
Theo Samaritan Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2007.09.22 09:46:00 - [2] GM's dont need to trouble themselves here. just stop the warp. hit the arrow to the far left of the speedometer and the warp stops before you go anywhere. Harder to do in small ships but it can be done ______________________________ A Request About Lag Discussion -- Yet another "Edit my sig devs!" request \o/
Amarria Black Clan Anthraxx	Posted - 2007.09.22 09:59:00 - [3] Originally by: Theo Samaritan GM's dont need to trouble themselves here. just stop the warp. hit the arrow to the far left of the speedometer and the warp stops before you go anywhere. Harder to do in small ships but it can be done FAIL. Doesn't work after you've ewarped. Trust me, I've tried every method of stopping a ship when I lose my connection and log back on to my freighter jumping willy-nilly around space.
Sloth Ren Auraxian Irregulars The Sundering	Posted - 2007.09.22 11:01:00 - [4] I agree...I use to be able to just hit stop before I would start warping..but a few patches ago, when I log back in, as soon as I can see my ship I am already in warp back to my previous spot.
Sloth Ren Auraxian Irregulars The Sundering	Posted - 2007.09.22 11:06:00 - [5] Edited by: Sloth Ren on 22/09/2007 11:08:21 double post for some reason...deleted...
xBANDWAGONx Caldari Purge Corp	Posted - 2007.09.22 11:10:00 - [6] did any of you even read the OP? He's asking about someone who is basically loging and reloging to get out of harms way... not sure if its an exploit, but it should be (if its possible that is). [sig] DON'T LIKE MY STYLE... TELL MY CEO DON'T LOOK AT MY THREAD [/sig]
Lebowske Nosferatu Security Foundation	Posted - 2007.09.22 11:23:00 - [7] IMHO No it's not an exploit. Some call it cheating/metagaming, aka the login-traps thingy - but thats the closest thing it comes to an offence. Id' just call it friggin boring. The "regular" exploit-term is hard to fit into Eve. IMHO exploits in Eve is when is taking advantage of this game mechanisms, finding loopholes and abusing them to a point so that noone else can figure it out (immediately), but also using the mechanisms against CCP's own definitions - and circumventing the game's own safety-mechanisms against it. Logging in/out rapidly may be abused by some 0.0 citizens, I'm pretty sure it will never be classifies as an exploit. Nor login traps. Also, there wont be any safetymechanisms against relogin/traps - because they are hard to prevent (or rather to separate the legitimate cases from the metagamers). My 2 ISK'ies .. Metagaming yes, but exploits, no. -------------------- - It's better to keep your mouth shut and let people believe you're an idiot, rather than opening it and removing all doubt.
Eternus8lux8lucis Minmatar FW Inc	Posted - 2007.09.22 11:28:00 - [8] Ive heard of it being done to avoid gate camps in 0.0 as the return warp isnt accurate. Just like warping to a bookmark doesnt always get you within a certain area. Ive been up to 7kms off the mark warping back in in all directions, though usually its 5kms. So just like a bmk if you log in you can deviate around 5kms from the original spot. So each time you log off and back in thats twice at 5kms so you can be a max of 10kms off depending on where the computer spots you each time. So add that up and eventually youll be way off the gate, out of harms way of the camp, at least their speedy tacklers or warp scramblers and can either warp away or log off and wait out their camp. Or even cloak. Though its a game mechanic it was never intended to be used that way imo and should be labeled an exploit if done multiple times. This would be easy to tell from logs as well if done as your log on details would show it. Give them one log on and off. So theyll either log off for minutes or hours or they gotta make a run for it. If they do it again right away give them a 15 min aggro timer and a 2 min ship permanence in game at the spot of the logoffski. 15 mins to probe, 2 mins to kill it. Would solve a lot of issues for that one instantly and make it unusable.
Lebowske Nosferatu Security Foundation	Posted - 2007.09.22 11:40:00 - [9] Originally by: Eternus8lux8lucis Though its a game mechanic it was never intended to be used that way imo and should be labeled an exploit if done multiple times. This would be easy to tell from logs as well if done as your log on details would show it. Give them one log on and off. So theyll either log off for minutes or hours or they gotta make a run for it. If they do it again right away give them a 15 min aggro timer and a 2 min ship permanence in game at the spot of the logoffski. Hm. Ideally yes. ;) But how to you separate a "legitimate cause" of connection problems compared to the metagamer? By system security and >=0.5 vs <0.5? May work, but it also could bring up some new issues. And does this mean losec and null space residents wont be allowed to have connection issues - and god forbid if that happens on a node under heavy pressure / fleet battle. Otherwise you need to give it an additional rule. Skip if Node CPU-hog > normal. I think this is why CCP is reluctant to put a "exploit" label on it - because it's still hard to implement a mechanism that is "fair". I have no idea how you could do it tough ... ;( -------------------- - It's better to keep your mouth shut and let people believe you're an idiot, rather than opening it and removing all doubt.
Sophia Germain Fluxion	Posted - 2007.09.22 11:48:00 - [10] Edited by: Sophia Germain on 22/09/2007 11:48:36 With some occasions, it's clear it's not a connection issue. If a pilot is being hunted in a system by probers with minimal probing time and they find his safespot, that person can avoid warping back to that safespot with the way I explained above. If the person does the same login-logout-login-logout-login -routine every single time he starts playing, he's doing that just to avoid getting warped back to a trap set for him by the probers and their friends.
Roy Batty68 Caldari Immortal Dead	Posted - 2007.09.22 11:51:00 - [11] As far as I know it hasn't been designated by CCP as an exploit. It is an epic FAIL on the part of CCP though. What other game is there where you logout in order to accomplish something in game? It's just unbelievable that after four years they still haven't got this one sorted. Originally by: Big Al Well, if there was a law against stupidity, the server would certainly lag less.
Bish Ounen Gallente Omni-Core Freedom Fighters Combined Planetary Union	Posted - 2007.09.22 12:15:00 - [12] Originally by: Sophia Germain Edited by: Sophia Germain on 22/09/2007 11:48:36 With some occasions, it's clear it's not a connection issue. If a pilot is being hunted in a system by probers with minimal probing time and they find his safespot, that person can avoid warping back to that safespot with the way I explained above. If the person does the same login-logout-login-logout-login -routine every single time he starts playing, he's doing that just to avoid getting warped back to a trap set for him by the probers and their friends. The thing is, there isn't any good reason to stop someone from doing that. Yes, logoffski is lame, but so is setting a login trap. (really hard to kill someone that can't fight back. ) So CCP allows it to continue.
Dez Affinity Ore Mongers R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.09.22 12:24:00 - [13] Logging on/Logging off is not considered an exploit. It IS an exploit but CCP disagree. _______________
tla gnillortmurof Minmatar	Posted - 2007.09.22 12:40:00 - [14] I remember my newbie days when I didn't even know that you could safely log out anywhere other than in a station...
Daelin Blackleaf No Joy Corp Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2007.09.22 12:49:00 - [15] It is not an exploit for two reasons: 1: They can't fix it. 2: Too many people do it to start handing out bans. It's not right, it's not good for the game, but if CCP were to ban everyone they found using what is technically an abuse of game mechanics the number of accounts would drop by thousands.
Celeste Coeval The Gosimer and Scarab	Posted - 2007.09.22 12:54:00 - [16] Originally by: Sophia Germain Hi, first of all, my apologies if a thread on this issue already exists. I didn't find one with a quick glance at the forums. The question is simple - Is it an exploit to avoid warping back to the spot where you logged out? The way I've witnessed people doing this is by repeatedly logging in and out right when they've entered the game and are automatically being warped back to the spot they logged out at. What this seems to accomplish is that they end up at a different spot in space after a couple of logins. A GM clarification on this issue would be very much appreciated. Why do you want to do this? So you can logosffski, then instantly avoid emergency warp back to pirates? If this is possible I want it nerfed so hard you cry. "If you are out to describe the truth, leave elegance to the tailor." -Albert Einstein A blog of truth (not mine)
Vydren Minmatar Ardent Adversary Anvil.	Posted - 2007.09.22 12:58:00 - [17] One of the most shocking things is, if you catch a carrier with an aggro timer on it and try to scan probe it, and if that carrier pilot knows about this exploit, all they have to do is keep re-logging. Since a carrier is very slow to align and auto warp back from it's original save spot, this method is very easy. So even if you (and a bunch of friends)are waiting for it at it's original save spot, your still not going to get it.
Sophia Germain Fluxion	Posted - 2007.09.22 13:52:00 - [18] No Celeste, I don't want to do it. I don't want the possibility of doing that to even exist. All I was doing was asking for GM confirmation and explaining the problem for those who don't know about it.
Slate Fistcrunch	Posted - 2007.09.22 21:31:00 - [19] Originally by: Sophia Germain No Celeste, I don't want to do it. I don't want the possibility of doing that to even exist. All I was doing was asking for GM confirmation and explaining the problem for those who don't know about it. GMs have repeatedly told people that this is not an exploit. In their words, "Logging in or out of the game isn't an exploit." My main point though is if you wanted a GM confirmation, why did you make a forum post? Petitions are there if you want to know if something is an exploit or not. Just petition under the exploit category and ask, "Is such and such an exploit?" Otherwise you're not going to hear from a GM.
Daelin Blackleaf No Joy Corp Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2007.09.23 11:27:00 - [20] Originally by: Slate Fistcrunch My main point though is if you wanted a GM confirmation, why did you make a forum post? Petitions are there if you want to know if something is an exploit or not. Just petition under the exploit category and ask, "Is such and such an exploit?" Otherwise you're not going to hear from a GM. Because our time is less valuable than that of GM's and because a forum post ensures more people become aware of the answer. If the forums are not for discussing a point or asking questions what are they for?
Amarria Black Clan Anthraxx	Posted - 2007.09.23 11:53:00 - [21] Edited by: Amarria Black on 23/09/2007 11:53:51 Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf Originally by: Slate Fistcrunch My main point though is if you wanted a GM confirmation, why did you make a forum post? Petitions are there if you want to know if something is an exploit or not. Just petition under the exploit category and ask, "Is such and such an exploit?" Otherwise you're not going to hear from a GM. Because our time is less valuable than that of GM's and because a forum post ensures more people become aware of the answer. If the forums are not for discussing a point or asking questions what are they for? Spam, propaganda, trolling, fanboyism, and whining. Duh.
Daelin Blackleaf No Joy Corp Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2007.09.23 22:16:00 - [22] Originally by: Amarria Black Spam, propaganda, trolling, fanboyism, and whining. Duh. Doh! Okay I confess, I just got pwned.

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