| Pages: [1] :: one page |
|
|
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Tacen Knight
   |
Posted - 2007.09.25 18:57:00 -
[1]
okay, i dont get why people build ships? i've worked it out and it would be easier to mine, and sell the ore, then mine, and build the ship, it takes 2 hours less if you just buy the ship instead.....
tell me if i'm wrong please, and please give me advice on how to make building more efficient then buying a ship..... thx
|
Arvald
Caldari
House of Tempers
|
Posted - 2007.09.25 18:59:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Arvald on 25/09/2007 18:59:46
 Originally by: Tacen Knight
okay, i dont get why people build ships? i've worked it out and it would be easier to mine, and sell the ore, then mine, and build the ship, it takes 2 hours less if you just buy the ship instead.....
tell me if i'm wrong please, and please give me advice on how to make building more efficient then buying a ship..... thx
you do relize that inorder for you to buy a ship someone else has to build it right....
three words, player driven economy
-----------------------------------------------
ya cant stop the rokh
and no i have not nor will i ever contribute anything constructive to your thread |
Sheriff Jones
Amarr
Please Enter Password
|
Posted - 2007.09.25 19:02:00 -
[3]
Well, i reprocess items i find around, don't use or get in cheap bulks and then build ships out of those minerals.
The "shiny" rocks ain't the only source of minerals.
My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit. |
Thanos Draicon
|
Posted - 2007.09.25 19:03:00 -
[4]
The efficiency of the blueprints you use affects how many minerals you need, which increases your profits. And generally speaking, if you buy a ship, you buy it from another player.
|
Abrazzar
|
Posted - 2007.09.25 19:06:00 -
[5]
1) Production Efficiency V
2) Mining/Trading minerals
3) ???
4) Profit
|
Fujiko MaXjolt
|
Posted - 2007.09.25 19:07:00 -
[6]
One word : Greed.
People are greedy, and as such they'll look for maximum profit. Turning your minerals into ships and mods are generally more profitable than selling minerals.
But i suspect your view is prompted by sloth, and as such it astounds me that you would bother with even refining the ore as it takes more than one click to do so 
There is a skill people can train to improve effiency of building and BPO's can have their mineral cost reduced somewhat. This is what makes building profitable and makes people want to bother.
|
Tacen Knight
|
Posted - 2007.09.25 19:08:00 -
[7]
so mainly it has to do with your skills in reprocessing and building that make the difference in cost? and is it that big enough of a difference to want to keep building?
|
Tamia Clant
New Dawn Corp
New Eden Research
|
Posted - 2007.09.25 19:15:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Tamia Clant on 25/09/2007 19:16:49
If you have efficient blueprint and skills, the main reason you can't get a profit out of building is that the seller you are comparing to doesn't necessarily want to make a profit. Allow me to explain:
- Player 1 buys Raven for 100m for missions
- After a week, Player 1 is bored of missions and wants to try something different
- Player 1 needs ISK fast, so he puts the raven for sale at 90m
Now let's imagine Player 2 is also getting rid of his raven, he checks up the market and sees one going for 90m, so he puts his for 89m.
If this process repeats itself several times, you could have a bunch of ravens in the market selling for below production cost.
Now, if your production cost is, let's say, 95m, you have no point in building ravens and putting them for sale in the market. If you have good reprocessing skills, it might actually be profitable to buy them all and refine them back into minerals!
Another cause might be the "i mined it so it's free" mentality. Yes, some people think that mining minerals means that they have 0 cost, and any price they may put on the final item means profit. What they fail to realize is that the minerals have an oportunity cost, and that selling the ship below mineral cost means you're missing out on profit.
In conclusion, the T1 market for several items is sometimes screwed in some areas, specially Jita, so always make sure the item you're going to build gets you a profit margin.
Looking for queue-free research slots? Click here!
|
Arvald
Caldari
House of Tempers
|
Posted - 2007.09.25 19:16:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Tacen Knight
so mainly it has to do with your skills in reprocessing and building that make the difference in cost? and is it that big enough of a difference to want to keep building?
it also has to do with wether you mine all your mienerals, buy them or get them from loot. it also has to do with where you sell the ships you make ie, i build a rokh in jita and i can get about 130 mill for it there, whereas i take it out to stain i can easly get a good 160+ for it
-----------------------------------------------
ya cant stop the rokh
and no i have not nor will i ever contribute anything constructive to your thread |
Sheriff Jones
Amarr
Please Enter Password
|
Posted - 2007.09.25 19:17:00 -
[10]
On above: You could, technically, even buy out all the cheap ravens, reprocess them, build NEW ravens with less mineral use then the reprocess yield and make more profit? 
My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit. |
|
|
Reem Fairchild
Minmatar
Republic University
|
Posted - 2007.09.25 19:25:00 -
[11]
Even with Production Efficiency trained to 5 and a highly researched blueprint, it is very difficult to make much money out of building ships in most empire markets. In 0.0 it's a whole other issue cause minerals tend to be cheap and ships expensive. But in empire you can't. And the reason why you can't make much from it is because too many people do it (and they don't realize how tiny their profit margins are).
|
Gridwalker
|
Posted - 2007.09.25 19:26:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Tacen Knight
so mainly it has to do with your skills in reprocessing and building that make the difference in cost? and is it that big enough of a difference to want to keep building?
Somewhat. Some people concentrate on industry instead of combat, and we have a whole slew of skills and tools to make building things faster, easier and more efficient. While it is certainly true that anyone can build just about anything on their own, you need to truly invest in industrial skills to be able to do so effectively.
In general, there are two things which primarily effect how you build things: your building skills, and how well researched your blueprint is.
Skills are easy. You buy them (and some are VERY expensive and time consuming to train) and train them. Expect to take several months of training to become efficient. This is several months when you are NOT training combat skills.
Blueprint research is trickier. The Material Efficiency (ME) of a blueprint reflects how efficient the building process is. Most blueprints start out with a "wastage" of 10%, which means that unresearched, it will take 10% more minerals and materials to build. As you research the ME on a blueprint (which can take considerable time, especially for ships) the wastage goes down.
Research ME on a blueprint is tricky, because all of the public research slots are usually in use and there is a queue of sometimes months. That means if you are serious, you need to either find someone and pay them to research it for you, or you need to build a Player Owned Structure (POS) and research it yourself.
All this means that someone who specializes in the industrial side of EVE (and remember, all ships are built by players, whether you realize it or not!) invests considerable time and isk to be able to manufacture ships and items as efficiently as possible.
As for the assertion from one of the other posters that "greed" is involved, I suspect they've never really tried to run an industrial toon. As you get more skilled with combat, you can easily turn 10m or more isk/hour ratting. Industrial toons simply don't have the combat skills to do that, so we need to make our isk by turning a profit on what we build. Where combat toons invest in ships and modules, we invest in POS's (think 50m isk per month, minimum, to operate a POS), minerals, hundreds of millions of isk worth of skills, and countless months training, researching blueprints, and building.
And don't get me started on invention! Turning a profit there is truly a challenging affair, even with prices seemingly as high as they are. A string of bad luck with invention could make it impossible to ever make a profit.
Hope this answers your question.
-Grid
|
Reem Fairchild
Minmatar
Republic University
|
Posted - 2007.09.25 19:30:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Arvald
it also has to do with wether you mine all your mienerals, buy them or get them from loot.
No, since minerals are sold easily on the market, it doesn't really matter how you get them. Whether you buy them, mine them or reprocess them out of modules, their value on the market remains the exact same.
Quote:
it also has to do with where you sell the ships you make ie, i build a rokh in jita and i can get about 130 mill for it there, whereas i take it out to stain i can easly get a good 160+ for it
Unless you get your minerals in Stain and build it there, it would be a lot easier for you in this scenario to just buy the Rokh in Jita and fly it out and sell it in Stain. Why bother with the building part?
|
Gridwalker
|
Posted - 2007.09.25 19:35:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Tamia Clant
Another cause might be the "i mined it so it's free" mentality. Yes, some people think that mining minerals means that they have 0 cost, and any price they may put on the final item means profit. What they fail to realize is that the minerals have an oportunity cost, and that selling the ship below mineral cost means you're missing out on profit.
That really hits on one of my pet peeves. Why are some people so stupid that they don't realize they are LOSING ISK when they mine their own ore and don't consider the value of those minerals?
Folks, if you're a building and you mine your own minerals, check how much you could sell your minerals for on the market and calculate that as part of your build cost. You're a total goof if you build a module and sell it for 5m isk, when you could have sold the minerals you mined for 10m isk alone!
-Grid
|
Arvald
Caldari
House of Tempers
|
Posted - 2007.09.25 19:37:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Reem Fairchild
Originally by: Arvald
it also has to do with wether you mine all your mienerals, buy them or get them from loot.
No, since minerals are sold easily on the market, it doesn't really matter how you get them. Whether you buy them, mine them or reprocess them out of modules, their value on the market remains the exact same.
Quote:
it also has to do with where you sell the ships you make ie, i build a rokh in jita and i can get about 130 mill for it there, whereas i take it out to stain i can easly get a good 160+ for it
Unless you get your minerals in Stain and build it there, it would be a lot easier for you in this scenario to just buy the Rokh in Jita and fly it out and sell it in Stain. Why bother with the building part?
im jsut sayin
-----------------------------------------------
ya cant stop the rokh
and no i have not nor will i ever contribute anything constructive to your thread |
Toria Nynys
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2007.09.26 03:03:00 -
[16]
Also, don't price the ship build cost at mineral sell order prices -- price them at mineral BUY order prices (at nearby stations), or split the difference. Suddenly you might find that if you mine selling the ship is far more profitable.
If not, go ahead and buy the lowball ships, recycle em and haul minerals to the buy orders or try your own sell orders. You've earned that ISK.
|
Kritinana
Minmatar
Dark Empire Fleet
|
Posted - 2007.09.26 03:24:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Toria Nynys
Also, don't price the ship build cost at mineral sell order prices -- price them at mineral BUY order prices (at nearby stations), or split the difference. Suddenly you might find that if you mine selling the ship is far more profitable.
If not, go ahead and buy the lowball ships, recycle em and haul minerals to the buy orders or try your own sell orders. You've earned that ISK.
As both a miner & a builder, I base all construction considerations off minerals 'sell order' prices. If you can't make at least 10-20% profit over sell order mineral value then don't build it. Though most often it's not a concern as finding an item to build that yeilds 20-30, or even 40% is no that hard if you sell it in the right place. I'll admit though that ships are generally not in the 'most profitable' build category, and as such, i'm somewhat off topic.
The problem is that a ship is generally the first thing any 'production n00b' thinks to build, and thus you have nubbish prices for ships. I.E. -> i mined my mins therefore they're free prices. This makes ships one of the harder areas of production to make a profit in, and also leads to the perception of it being a total waste of time.
(srry for any typos, lil drunk, tired, & too lazy to check)
|
cal nereus
Bounty Hunter - Dark Legion
Brutally Clever Empire
|
Posted - 2007.09.26 03:29:00 -
[18]
When there's no one selling a ship I'm looking for in my area, and I have no safe/fast way of getting the ship from another area, I like to build it myself. It allows me to be self-sufficient when the economy fails me.
---
Join BH-DL |
Savage Creampuff
Caldari
Lockheed Technologies Inc
Hydra Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.09.26 06:50:00 -
[19]
I love dumbasses who sell below mineral cost because they 'mined their minerals for free'
Quote:
I've sent in plenty of petitions but it seems that CCP just doesn't care about me. Without knowledge of market dynamics theres no way I can compete with these griefers
|
Fantasia Freelance
|
Posted - 2007.09.26 09:53:00 -
[20]
Shhhh.... Don't let the cat out of the bag!
See my in-game Contracts starting at 1 million--like a full set of +3 Basic implants and a Navy Raven Issue! |
|
|
000Hunter000
Gallente
Magners Marauders
|
Posted - 2007.09.26 10:54:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Savage Creampuff
I love dumbasses who sell below mineral cost because they 'mined their minerals for free'
U mean like macroers and sweatshoppers? Tbh i don't love them, i hate them and wish they would get a clue, same goes for people that sell items below buildcost.
CCP, let us pay the online shop with Direct Debit!!!
Magners is now recruiting, evemail me or Dagazbo ingame.
|
Banana Torres
The Green Banana Corporation
|
Posted - 2007.09.26 11:38:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Tacen Knight
tell me if i'm wrong please, and please give me advice on how to make building more efficient then buying a ship..... thx
Well, first you build up a stock of minerals and the t2 bits. Putting a good buy order on the station that you want to build at is a fine way of getting the goods. Or crush the rat and drone droppings from mission running.
Then when you need a new ship. Instead of going to a hub and lagging out for 5 hours. You click, click, clickty click and wait 5 hours for your new ship to appear.
It is cheaper to build, you don't have to pay the markup and if you run missions a lot you won't have to buy many minerals.
|
LMAAAOOOO
|
Posted - 2007.09.26 12:26:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Toria Nynys
Also, don't price the ship build cost at mineral sell order prices -- price them at mineral BUY order prices (at nearby stations), or split the difference. Suddenly you might find that if you mine selling the ship is far more profitable.
If this is your way, you have screwed over your self many times 
You should compare the ship price with how much you can get for the minerals to see if it is profitable
But Tamia Clan's post pretty much clears it up
_______________________________________________
|
Sokratesz
Paradox v2.0
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
|
Posted - 2007.09.26 13:00:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Tacen Knight
okay, i dont get why people build ships? i've worked it out and it would be easier to mine, and sell the ore, then mine, and build the ship, it takes 2 hours less if you just buy the ship instead.....
tell me if i'm wrong please, and please give me advice on how to make building more efficient then buying a ship..... thx
WTS: understanding of how EVE's economy works 101
|
BoBoZoBo
Foundation
R0ADKILL
|
Posted - 2007.09.26 15:12:00 -
[25]
Train Mining & Refining to max levels
Train Market & Trade skills to high levels
Train production & research skill to max levels
Research BPO to max levels
Build & Sell stuff for max profit
Eve makes it easy to do. We have the Skills, We have the Minerals, We have the stations, we have the economy.. we have the PVP.
=========================
Minister of Propaganda - Operator 9 |
|
|
| |
|
| Pages: [1] :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |