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Stabber vs Thorax

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Aoki Shinya	Posted - 2007.09.27 05:33:00 - [1] OK, if I'm not wrong, the Stabber is the Minmatar equivalent of the Thorax. I've read a lot of good things about the Stabber (especially with t2 guns), and of course I've read good things about the Thorax with its drone bay as well. So my questions are, 1) In 1v1, which would win? (assuming both pilots equal SP levels and specced in respective cruisers and skills) 2) What are the advantages/disadvantages of each? 3) What are the difference in roles between the two ships? Cheers, Aoki
Templer Relleg Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2007.09.27 05:36:00 - [2] Stabber is really not the same as a thorax. The stabber is most commonly fit with nano, because of the speed bonus it gets. The equal or so of the thorax, is the rupture. In either case, the thorax would win.
Graalum Foundation R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.09.27 05:44:00 - [3] Originally by: Templer Relleg Stabber is really not the same as a thorax. The stabber is most commonly fit with nano, because of the speed bonus it gets. The equal or so of the thorax, is the rupture. In either case, the thorax would win. stabber should never, ever, die to a thorax.
Aoki Shinya	Posted - 2007.09.27 05:52:00 - [4] I don't understand still, what really separates the two ships in terms of roles...?
Liang Nuren The Refugees	Posted - 2007.09.27 05:58:00 - [5] Originally by: Templer Relleg Stabber is really not the same as a thorax. The stabber is most commonly fit with nano, because of the speed bonus it gets. The equal or so of the thorax, is the rupture. In either case, the thorax would win. A good Stabber pilot will never die to a Thorax pilot. He may not kill the Thorax - but the Thorax damn sure won't kill him. Liang Yarr?
Ris Dnalor Minmatar Union Enterprises	Posted - 2007.09.27 06:01:00 - [6] stabber fit for speed, as it should be, would be wise to choose not to engage the thorax, so it would be a draw. should they go toe to toe the thorax would rip the stabber to shreds. -- Talking in Circles is more dizzying than walking in them... Tralala
Liang Nuren The Refugees	Posted - 2007.09.27 06:02:00 - [7] Originally by: Aoki Shinya I don't understand still, what really separates the two ships in terms of roles...? The Thorax is a mobile tackle + omgwtfhaxdps platform. The Stabber is a mobile tackle + chew on you until you die or mount a credible defense. In the Immortal words of my (then) 2 year old fast: The stabber is made to "run away fast!" if it can't take whatever you're throwing at it. For the Stabber, think Vagabond, but smaller. For the Thorax, think Deimos, but smaller. Liang Yarr?
Aoki Shinya	Posted - 2007.09.27 06:02:00 - [8] OK wait, so the Thorax is just a great PvP ship all-around, confronting other ships head on... and the Stabber? It runs? What else is it good for???
Liang Nuren The Refugees	Posted - 2007.09.27 06:03:00 - [9] Originally by: Ris Dnalor stabber fit for speed, as it should be, would be wise to choose not to engage the thorax, so it would be a draw. should they go toe to toe the thorax would rip the stabber to shreds. I've been known to fit ambit rigs on a stabber before... I might be able to take a Thorax eventually because his drones wouldn't be an issue. The Thorax should never kill the Stabber - but the Stabber might, eventually, if he's a really good pilot .. kill the Thorax. Liang Yarr?
Marcathonas Minmatar Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2007.09.27 06:28:00 - [10] Originally by: Aoki Shinya OK, if I'm not wrong, the Stabber is the Minmatar equivalent of the Thorax. I've read a lot of good things about the Stabber (especially with t2 guns), and of course I've read good things about the Thorax with its drone bay as well. So my questions are, 1) In 1v1, which would win? (assuming both pilots equal SP levels and specced in respective cruisers and skills) 2) What are the advantages/disadvantages of each? 3) What are the difference in roles between the two ships? Cheers, Aoki Stabber should kill a rax, if the pilot's any good. Orbit @14, keep at range at 21, pay damn close attention to his velocity and make sure to start moving the second his velocity starts increasing. However, it's not the minnie equivalent. That'd be a rupture. Stabber is much more survivable than a rax and a better tackler, rax is an extremely good damage dealer for such a cheap ship. Rax hits approach, MWDs in, webs and scrams opponent, and shoots until dead. Stabber has to make sure it stays out of webrange, and will slowly kill it's opponent, or run if things don't look good.
Ris Dnalor Minmatar Union Enterprises	Posted - 2007.09.27 06:28:00 - [11] Edited by: Ris Dnalor on 27/09/2007 06:28:59 Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Ris Dnalor stabber fit for speed, as it should be, would be wise to choose not to engage the thorax, so it would be a draw. should they go toe to toe the thorax would rip the stabber to shreds. I've been known to fit ambit rigs on a stabber before... I might be able to take a Thorax eventually because his drones wouldn't be an issue. The Thorax should never kill the Stabber - but the Stabber might, eventually, if he's a really good pilot .. kill the Thorax. Liang We're saying the same thing. The stabber should never go toe to toe. ( picture ships having toes and those toes touching each other at the tips ) :) -- Talking in Circles is more dizzying than walking in them... Tralala
DroneBay Diva Black Velvet Allegience	Posted - 2007.09.27 06:33:00 - [12] I know it's not EXACTLY the same , but I've gone 1v1 my Deimos (t2 Thorax) vs two different Vagabond (t2 Stabber) pilots. The first time I got ransomed, the 2nd time I went to Jita to buy and fit a new Deimos.
Templer Relleg Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2007.09.27 06:40:00 - [13] Originally by: Graalum Originally by: Templer Relleg Stabber is really not the same as a thorax. The stabber is most commonly fit with nano, because of the speed bonus it gets. The equal or so of the thorax, is the rupture. In either case, the thorax would win. stabber should never, ever, die to a thorax. But THEN again. A rax should never die to a stabber
Aoki Shinya	Posted - 2007.09.27 06:51:00 - [14] OK so let me get this straight, the stabber can kill things just not as well as the thorax (not nearly as well), but its got insane speed so it can just dance around stuff?
Liang Nuren The Refugees	Posted - 2007.09.27 07:01:00 - [15] Originally by: Aoki Shinya OK so let me get this straight, the stabber can kill things just not as well as the thorax (not nearly as well), but its got insane speed so it can just dance around stuff? Pretty much. Liang Yarr?
wazzaap	Posted - 2007.09.27 07:04:00 - [16] stabber is nimble. it can choose to leave if **** hits the fan. yet, thorax is badder, meaner, can dish out more pain aswell as recieve some. So, pick your style: either agile musketeer with rapier dancing around his foe, or (heavily) armored knight with two-handed sword.
Atius Tirawa Minmatar Wreckless Abandon Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.09.27 07:09:00 - [17] Originally by: Aoki Shinya OK so let me get this straight, the stabber can kill things just not as well as the thorax (not nearly as well), but its got insane speed so it can just dance around stuff? Minmatar ships don't do very well in toe to toe combat, especially against Gallente, who are renouned for their hard hitting and versitile ships. The Thorax is famous for being a fantastic T1 ship, it hits hard, has a good drone bay and gets a MWD bonus - so its fast and it hits hard. The Stabber is faster then the rax, and that is its only advantage. A good rax fit will be able to tank the Stabber forever, and the stabber will not let the rax catch him - so - its really up to who gets help first :) Thing to remember with Minmatar - we have the lowest dps, the weakest tanks, and the worst slot configurations in the game for the most part - but - we should be able to run. If this style of combat does not appeal to you - then train Gallente, they are the 'dig your heels in' race'. The old joke 'Real men structure tank' is refering the the Gallente fyi.
M00dy Killed In Action Sev3rance	Posted - 2007.09.27 16:56:00 - [18] A T2 barrage fitted Stabber will always kill a similarly skilled Rax. The stabber only has to kill the Raxes drones and it's a sitting duck. RATatatatata
Saint Lazarus Darkness Inc.	Posted - 2007.09.27 17:03:00 - [19] Originally by: Templer Relleg Stabber is really not the same as a thorax. The stabber is most commonly fit with nano, because of the speed bonus it gets. The equal or so of the thorax, is the rupture. In either case, the thorax would win. Right teh first time wrong teh second Stabber is tier 2 cruiser, Rax and Rupture are tier 3 and Rupture > Rax, Ruptures probably best cruiser in game when fit and flown properly, at best a Rax could get a Ruppy to disengage. Thats all assuming its t2 of course, without Barrage a Ruppy would be in some serious ** :D ------------------------------**
Liang Nuren The Refugees	Posted - 2007.09.27 17:21:00 - [20] Originally by: Saint Lazarus Thats all assuming its t2 of course, without Barrage a Ruppy would be in some serious **** That's the thing about autocannons... they have to be T2 with barrage to be any good at all (RF EMP is passable, but Barrage is where its at). Blasters have no such limitation. Liang Yarr?
jerrard iceni Knights of Chaos Chaos Incarnate.	Posted - 2007.09.27 17:32:00 - [21] Edited by: jerrard iceni on 27/09/2007 17:32:53 Originally by: Liang Nuren A good Stabber pilot will never die to a Thorax pilot. He may not kill the Thorax - but the Thorax damn sure won't kill him. Liang thats about the sum of it. ofc if the stabber has t2 ac's and barrage then the rax is in trouble. doesnt matter if the rax has a better tank or greater dps. if u cant hit ur target it then it all counts for nothing
Reem Fairchild Minmatar Republic University	Posted - 2007.09.27 17:34:00 - [22] Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Saint Lazarus Thats all assuming its t2 of course, without Barrage a Ruppy would be in some serious **** That's the thing about autocannons... they have to be T2 with barrage to be any good at all (RF EMP is passable, but Barrage is where its at). Blasters have no such limitation. Liang Only because for cruiser size and under, it's impossible to get optimal + falloff above 10 km even with tech 2 neutrons and null ammo. So no one even bothers. For Minmatar, on the other hand, it becomes a must. Still, tech 2 blasters with null are really good if you're faster.
JoeSomebody No Trademark The OSS	Posted - 2007.09.27 18:08:00 - [23] Originally by: Liang Nuren A good Stabber pilot will never die to a Thorax pilot. He may not kill the Thorax - but the Thorax damn sure won't kill him. Liang One problem with what you said is ability to sustain MWD. So really the only thing Stabber can do against Thorax (or anything cruiser-sized for that matter) is run for his life.
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.09.27 18:26:00 - [24] Originally by: JoeSomebody Originally by: Liang Nuren A good Stabber pilot will never die to a Thorax pilot. He may not kill the Thorax - but the Thorax damn sure won't kill him. Liang One problem with what you said is ability to sustain MWD. So really the only thing Stabber can do against Thorax (or anything cruiser-sized for that matter) is run for his life. Thorax runs its mwd just as long as the stabber does.
Marcathonas Minmatar Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2007.09.27 18:31:00 - [25] Originally by: Templer Relleg But THEN again. A rax should never die to a stabber Except that's wrong, because if the stabber pilot knows what he's doing, the rax will die. He can't tank the damage forever, and the longer he tries to, the worse off he is for cap (and therefore ability to MWD). The stabber isn't taking any damage worth mentioning, and the thorax dies.
Trishan Green Men Incorporated	Posted - 2007.09.27 19:48:00 - [26] Originally by: Marcathonas Stabber should kill a rax, if the pilot's any good. Orbit @14, keep at range at 21, pay damn close attention to his velocity and make sure to start moving the second his velocity starts increasing. However, it's not the minnie equivalent. That'd be a rupture. Remember heat. 14 km is just 1 km away from overheated web. A bit of latency, and you're webbed and dead.
lag kills Kapital Punishment Karnal Knowledge	Posted - 2007.09.27 20:00:00 - [27] to put it another way: thorax is like a big two-hand axe wielding warrior. stabber is like a quick-footed archer. if the warrior gets in close it's all over, but if the archer uses his speed to stay at range, there isn't much the warrior can do. don't really have an analogy for drones. maybe the warrior has some pet birds he sends out to peck away at his enemies from a distance :p ___________________________ not all who wander are lost.
KD.Fluffy The Refugees	Posted - 2007.09.27 20:04:00 - [28] if the thorax rolls with some web drones I think it may be able to kill the stabber. Boost The Eagle!
Valandril Caldari Resurrection R i s e	Posted - 2007.09.27 20:21:00 - [29] There is only one scenario where thorax kill stabber, if stabber sit 0 on gate, gets lagged and thorax manage to bump him from gate so he can't jump and then web. Stabber will die almost instantyl, in any other case it will end in a draw :P --- Battlecarriers !
Divideby0 Gallente Amalgamated Industries	Posted - 2007.09.27 20:31:00 - [30] The Thorax should never kill the Stabber. They should be friends. They should sit down and have tea on Wednesdays and talk about how they could kill something more annoying...like a Raven. In all seriousness, It sounds like if both pilots approached each other knowing the opponent's strengths and weaknesses, it would be a long-drawn out draw... until one made a mistake, or they both ran out of ammo and the thorax's drones would slowly kill the stabber. Who is the bigger carebear: The miner who braves lowsec on his own, or the "PvPer" who attacks an unarmed ship? I support the f

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