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Wardeneo	Posted - 2007.10.01 08:46:00 - [1] hi i was just trying to get a little poll goin, whether a thorax or rupture would win in a 1 on 1 pvp fight, for this picture the best char and that both ships were used to there max potention... who would win? wardeneo
Lux Exterior Gallente The School of Fine Art	Posted - 2007.10.01 08:57:00 - [2] A T2 AC plate Rupture would win as long as it stayed out of blaster/web range for as long as possible. If the Thorax had the jump on the Rupture and got up close quickly then it would win. So the answer is; it comes down to pilot skill and a little luck.
Drek Grapper Minmatar	Posted - 2007.10.01 09:02:00 - [3] Originally by: Lux Exterior A T2 AC plate Rupture would win as long as it stayed out of blaster/web range for as long as possible. If the Thorax had the jump on the Rupture and got up close quickly then it would win. So the answer is; it comes down to pilot skill and a little luck. Throw some ecm drones into the Ruppi and it's almost guaranteed to win. Never lost to a Rax yet. But then again...do the same with a Rax and it could be anyones win. "The thing always happens that you really believe in; and the belief in a thing makes it happen" - Frank Loyd Wright
AntonioBanderas	Posted - 2007.10.01 09:04:00 - [4] i beated blasterax once. and i was fully t1 fitted. and i consider myself a noob and pvp inexpirienced. yes, keep your distance.
DeadRow Dragonstar	Posted - 2007.10.01 09:06:00 - [5] In or out of web range my money is on a t2 plate rupture, if the rax has Medium Blaster it hasn't got the hp to survive long enough to kill the rupture and if its plated with small neutrons it doesn't ahve to damage to kill before it gets killed All dependant on skills ofc. /DeadRow
VicturusTeSaluto	Posted - 2007.10.01 09:23:00 - [6] They are both excellent ships, but I would give the rupture a slight advantage.
Wardeneo	Posted - 2007.10.01 09:25:00 - [7] Originally by: Lux Exterior A T2 AC plate Rupture would win as long as it stayed out of blaster/web range for as long as possible. If the Thorax had the jump on the Rupture and got up close quickly then it would win. So the answer is; it comes down to pilot skill and a little luck. and i was thinking close range fittings.. as in rax with blasters and ruppi with autocannons, in which case thorax would win wardeneo
Cpt Branko The Bloody Red	Posted - 2007.10.01 09:31:00 - [8] Originally by: Wardeneo Originally by: Lux Exterior A T2 AC plate Rupture would win as long as it stayed out of blaster/web range for as long as possible. If the Thorax had the jump on the Rupture and got up close quickly then it would win. So the answer is; it comes down to pilot skill and a little luck. and i was thinking close range fittings.. as in rax with blasters and ruppi with autocannons, in which case thorax would win wardeneo Everyone was talking about a short-range fitting, as in a Rupture with ACs. Barrage M is just an added bonus. At any rate, you will be hard-pressed to win even a less skilled Thorax pilot if you engage him at 3-4km range. Far reaches of webrange and out of it, you should win in a Rupture. The Rupture is fortunately significantly faster then a Thorax. A good Thorax pilot and a good Rupture pilot would always be a fun match. The fact you're using close-range fittings doesn't mean you should click 'orbit at 2km' or whatever is your preffered orbit range in every fight.
Wardeneo	Posted - 2007.10.01 10:24:00 - [9] Originally by: Cpt Branko Originally by: Wardeneo Originally by: Lux Exterior A T2 AC plate Rupture would win as long as it stayed out of blaster/web range for as long as possible. If the Thorax had the jump on the Rupture and got up close quickly then it would win. So the answer is; it comes down to pilot skill and a little luck. and i was thinking close range fittings.. as in rax with blasters and ruppi with autocannons, in which case thorax would win wardeneo Everyone was talking about a short-range fitting, as in a Rupture with ACs. Barrage M is just an added bonus. At any rate, you will be hard-pressed to win even a less skilled Thorax pilot if you engage him at 3-4km range. Far reaches of webrange and out of it, you should win in a Rupture. The Rupture is fortunately significantly faster then a Thorax. A good Thorax pilot and a good Rupture pilot would always be a fun match. The fact you're using close-range fittings doesn't mean you should click 'orbit at 2km' or whatever is your preffered orbit range in every fight. if it was close range, thorax wud win, a thorax is god at close range, at long range the rupture wud win, but with equal char, thorax wud win wardeneo
Kalazar Amarr Veto Corp	Posted - 2007.10.01 10:38:00 - [10] Was there any point in your creating this topic? You ask for people's opinion, then disregard all opinions given and come up with a sweeping statement which is in quite a few cases incorrect. The Thorax and Rupture are both incredibly good ships, and piloted by equally skilled pilots with equally good setups, the outcome of a fight between them would come down to circumstance and luck. With both ships in close range fits (blasters vs autocannons): Starting at extremely close range the Thorax would most likely tear the Rupture to shreds. However, starting at further away the Thorax wouldn't be able to get into range to bring it's blasters to bear and the Rupture would murder it. ----------------------------------------------
Drek Grapper Minmatar	Posted - 2007.10.01 10:41:00 - [11] Edited by: Drek Grapper on 01/10/2007 10:44:34 Edited by: Drek Grapper on 01/10/2007 10:44:09 Originally by: Cpt Branko Originally by: Wardeneo Originally by: Lux Exterior A T2 AC plate Rupture would win as long as it stayed out of blaster/web range for as long as possible. If the Thorax had the jump on the Rupture and got up close quickly then it would win. So the answer is; it comes down to pilot skill and a little luck. and i was thinking close range fittings.. as in rax with blasters and ruppi with autocannons, in which case thorax would win wardeneo Everyone was talking about a short-range fitting, as in a Rupture with ACs. Barrage M is just an added bonus. At any rate, you will be hard-pressed to win even a less skilled Thorax pilot if you engage him at 3-4km range. Far reaches of webrange and out of it, you should win in a Rupture. The Rupture is fortunately significantly faster then a Thorax. A good Thorax pilot and a good Rupture pilot would always be a fun match. The fact you're using close-range fittings doesn't mean you should click 'orbit at 2km' or whatever is your preffered orbit range in every fight. Close range? What if the Ruppi uses Hail? And as someone mentioned earlier, if the Rax is fitted for gank...he don't have the tank...and if he has fitted a good tank..he don't have the gank. Ruppi has a good bit of both damage and tank with 1600mm plated/gyro fit. Would be a very close fight. "The thing always happens that you really believe in; and the belief in a thing makes it happen" - Frank Loyd Wright
Cpt Branko The Bloody Red	Posted - 2007.10.01 10:55:00 - [12] Edited by: Cpt Branko on 01/10/2007 10:55:31 Originally by: Drek Grapper Close range? What if the Ruppi uses Hail? And as someone mentioned earlier, if the Rax is fitted for gank...he don't have the tank...and if he has fitted a good tank..he don't have the gank. Ruppi has a good bit of both damage and tank with 1600mm plated/gyro fit. Would be a very close fight. Yeah, Ruppy has a good chance even in close-range, if it's a 1600mm fit, but I prefer the increased agility / speed of the 800mm plate version, which makes it very risky to engage a 800mm plate Thorax at point-blank range. I'm not a big fan of Hail - while it's good on paper, having to be at literally point blank range and not moving to get a real DPS increase is
Drek Grapper Minmatar	Posted - 2007.10.01 11:08:00 - [13] Originally by: Cpt Branko Edited by: Cpt Branko on 01/10/2007 10:55:31 Originally by: Drek Grapper Close range? What if the Ruppi uses Hail? And as someone mentioned earlier, if the Rax is fitted for gank...he don't have the tank...and if he has fitted a good tank..he don't have the gank. Ruppi has a good bit of both damage and tank with 1600mm plated/gyro fit. Would be a very close fight. Yeah, Ruppy has a good chance even in close-range, if it's a 1600mm fit, but I prefer the increased agility / speed of the 800mm plate version, which makes it very risky to engage a 800mm plate Thorax at point-blank range. I'm not a big fan of Hail - while it's good on paper, having to be at literally point blank range and not moving to get a real DPS increase is Hehe i got caught out by a Rax in a Stabber once...i **ed up and he webbed me. I changed to hail when he got up close and i popped him about 3 seconds before he would have popped me. Hail plus Suitcase2 FTW!! But yeah with a Ruppi i fit the 1600 plate/Suitcase2/Gyro/EANM2 x 2 and not scared at all to get into webrange againsed a Rax. I fit ecm drones which always get a jam off. I am very comfortable fitting the largest plate because the extra HP plus DCU is a marvelous buffer. Even if you get ganked by a bigger ship it takes a long time to go down and the drones give you that extra chance to run for it gets too hot. Love the Ruppi. "The thing always happens that you really believe in; and the belief in a thing makes it happen" - Frank Loyd Wright**
arbalesttom Caldari Glauxian Brothers Ground Zeero	Posted - 2007.10.01 11:11:00 - [14] Originally by: Drek Grapper Originally by: Cpt Branko Edited by: Cpt Branko on 01/10/2007 10:55:31 Originally by: Drek Grapper Close range? What if the Ruppi uses Hail? And as someone mentioned earlier, if the Rax is fitted for gank...he don't have the tank...and if he has fitted a good tank..he don't have the gank. Ruppi has a good bit of both damage and tank with 1600mm plated/gyro fit. Would be a very close fight. Yeah, Ruppy has a good chance even in close-range, if it's a 1600mm fit, but I prefer the increased agility / speed of the 800mm plate version, which makes it very risky to engage a 800mm plate Thorax at point-blank range. I'm not a big fan of Hail - while it's good on paper, having to be at literally point blank range and not moving to get a real DPS increase is Hehe i got caught out by a Rax in a Stabber once...i **ed up and he webbed me. I changed to hail when he got up close and i popped him about 3 seconds before he would have popped me. Hail plus Suitcase2** FTW!! But yeah with a Ruppi i fit the 1600 plate/Suitcase2/Gyro/EANM2 x 2 and not scared at all to get into webrange againsed a Rax. I fit ecm drones which always get a jam off. I am very comfortable fitting the largest plate because the extra HP plus DCU is a marvelous buffer. Even if you get ganked by a bigger ship it takes a long time to go down and the drones give you that extra chance to run for it gets too hot. Love the Ruppi. Not again ========================== No cookies for you! Caldari, not proud at it ==========================
Drek Grapper Minmatar	Posted - 2007.10.01 11:18:00 - [15] Hehe. I like it so it stuck!! "The thing always happens that you really believe in; and the belief in a thing makes it happen" - Frank Loyd Wright
Cpt Branko The Bloody Red	Posted - 2007.10.01 11:41:00 - [16] Yeah, I completely forgot you always love fitting the biggest plates you can ;) Well, you're the only frig pilot who menaged to pop my Rifter in a solo fight in all my piracy days
Drek Grapper Minmatar	Posted - 2007.10.01 12:04:00 - [17] Edited by: Drek Grapper on 01/10/2007 12:09:49 Originally by: Cpt Branko Yeah, I completely forgot you always love fitting the biggest plates you can ;) Well, you're the only frig pilot who menaged to pop my Rifter in a solo fight in all my piracy days Who me?? Edit: Ah yes...just read the Killmail. Awesome fight that. I love frig fights. "The thing always happens that you really believe in; and the belief in a thing makes it happen" - Frank Loyd Wright
wazzaap	Posted - 2007.10.01 13:03:00 - [18] Originally by: Drek Grapper Hehe i got caught out by a Rax in a Stabber once...i ****ed up and he webbed me. I changed to hail when he got up close and i popped him about 3 seconds before he would have popped me. Hail plus Suitcase2 FTW!! But yeah with a Ruppi i fit the 1600 plate/Suitcase2/Gyro/EANM2 x 2 and not scared at all to get into webrange againsed a Rax. I fit ecm drones which always get a jam off. I am very comfortable fitting the largest plate because the extra HP plus DCU is a marvelous buffer. Even if you get ganked by a bigger ship it takes a long time to go down and the drones give you that extra chance to run for it gets too hot. Love the Ruppi. Wow. So you actually tank instead of trying to outmaneuver. Do you use light or medium ecm drones?
Reem Fairchild Minmatar Republic University	Posted - 2007.10.01 13:12:00 - [19] Edited by: Reem Fairchild on 01/10/2007 13:12:49 A Rupture is faster than a Thorax and has a lot longer range on its autocannons when using barrage than the Thorax has on its blasters (even if he is using null ammo). Even webbed, if he webs back, the Rupture should win.
Lisento Slaven Amarr BAD ATTITUDES	Posted - 2007.10.01 13:17:00 - [20] To put it bluntly just put a setup down and someone will find a counter for it. Idea is to find a setup that has the least amount of counters and is thus the most effective overall. Rupture looks like a pirate ship though so it gets a cool factor of +5. --- Put in space whales!
Drek Grapper Minmatar	Posted - 2007.10.01 13:30:00 - [21] Originally by: wazzaap Originally by: Drek Grapper Hehe i got caught out by a Rax in a Stabber once...i **ed up and he webbed me. I changed to hail when he got up close and i popped him about 3 seconds before he would have popped me. Hail plus Suitcase2 FTW!! But yeah with a Ruppi i fit the 1600 plate/Suitcase2/Gyro/EANM2 x 2 and not scared at all to get into webrange againsed a Rax. I fit ecm drones which always get a jam off. I am very comfortable fitting the largest plate because the extra HP plus DCU is a marvelous buffer. Even if you get ganked by a bigger ship it takes a long time to go down and the drones give you that extra chance to run for it gets too hot. Love the Ruppi. Wow. So you actually tank instead of trying to outmaneuver. Do you use light or medium ecm drones? I use 1 med and 4 lights. They get a jam or two in every engagement. I try to outmanouver the target until the point that i am happy to get into webrange. There are not many cruisers that can chew through a 1600mm/Eanm/DCU buffed tank before going down so i am happy to get in close if i have to. With this setup you can load in hail and just get in as close as you can and pwn. But normally i use barrage and kite until i get bored of the crappy dps in falloff! "The thing always happens that you really believe in; and the belief in a thing makes it happen" - Frank Loyd Wright**
Rooker Lysian Enterprises	Posted - 2007.10.01 14:25:00 - [22] Originally by: Drek Grapper Originally by: Lux Exterior A T2 AC plate Rupture would win as long as it stayed out of blaster/web range for as long as possible. If the Thorax had the jump on the Rupture and got up close quickly then it would win. So the answer is; it comes down to pilot skill and a little luck. Throw some ecm drones into the Ruppi and it's almost guaranteed to win. Never lost to a Rax yet. But then again...do the same with a Rax and it could be anyones win. This. -Exactly that- happened to me in a SiSi duel the other night. He had 1600mmRT, DCU, EANM, freakin jammer drones AND he trimarked it to hell. I had 800mmRT, DCU, EANM and mag stabs. I still ate half his armor before losing lock and going down. I have a new favorite drones now. No more Valk IIs for me. -- This Space For Rent
Drek Grapper Minmatar	Posted - 2007.10.01 15:21:00 - [23] Originally by: Rooker Originally by: Drek Grapper Originally by: Lux Exterior A T2 AC plate Rupture would win as long as it stayed out of blaster/web range for as long as possible. If the Thorax had the jump on the Rupture and got up close quickly then it would win. So the answer is; it comes down to pilot skill and a little luck. Throw some ecm drones into the Ruppi and it's almost guaranteed to win. Never lost to a Rax yet. But then again...do the same with a Rax and it could be anyones win. This. -Exactly that- happened to me in a SiSi duel the other night. He had 1600mmRT, DCU, EANM, freakin jammer drones AND he trimarked it to hell. I had 800mmRT, DCU, EANM and mag stabs. I still ate half his armor before losing lock and going down. I have a new favorite drones now. No more Valk IIs for me. Don't worry..only a (rich) fool would fit rigs on a PVP cruiser. That being the case it's a bloody close fight between Rax and Rup. If both had ecm drones....shew, the lucky one wins! I would take a Ruppi over a Rax though for the mere fact that you can tank and gank reasonably well at the same time and also have a better optimal fighting range using Barrage. "The thing always happens that you really believe in; and the belief in a thing makes it happen" - Frank Loyd Wright
Marcathonas Minmatar Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2007.10.01 16:11:00 - [24] Originally by: Drek Grapper Don't worry..only a (rich) fool would fit rigs on a PVP cruiser. That being the case (ie: No rigs) it's a bloody close fight between Rax and Rup. If both had ecm drones....shew, the lucky one wins! Trimarks are pretty cheap. I wouldn't be averse to putting one on a 1600 plateruppy. Originally by: Wardeneo if it was close range, thorax wud win, a thorax is god at close range, at long range the rupture wud win, but with equal char, thorax wud win No. Ruppie will win. It gets to fit a 1600 plate and med guns without taking anywhere near as severe penalties as a thorax, it's dps isn't far off with hail, with barrage it can do the tempest kite-at-8km trick (if he pulls that off the thorax has no chance in hell). The only two chances a thorax pilot has against a well skilled rupture are: Rupture is using ECM drones which consistently fail and is versus an electron or ion II/t2 medium/platerax Thorax is using ECM drones and gets more jams than rupture. In other scenarios, rupture wins. Thorax is (probably) a better all-around cruiser as it has some excellent DPS support capability in a gang and is very solid solo, but rupture will kill it. PS: lolol rooker i killed ur rax etc.
Drek Grapper Minmatar	Posted - 2007.10.01 17:49:00 - [25] Originally by: Marcathonas Originally by: Drek Grapper Don't worry..only a (rich) fool would fit rigs on a PVP cruiser. That being the case (ie: No rigs) it's a bloody close fight between Rax and Rup. If both had ecm drones....shew, the lucky one wins! Trimarks are pretty cheap. I wouldn't be averse to putting one on a 1600 plateruppy. At 13million plus isk, I just can't bring myself to do it.. ------------------------------------------------ 'The thing always happens that you really believe in... and the belief in a thing makes it happen' - Frank Loyd Wright
VJ Maverick Caldari Maverick Specialized Services	Posted - 2007.10.01 18:06:00 - [26] Originally by: Drek Grapper Edited by: Drek Grapper on 01/10/2007 17:59:56 Edited by: Drek Grapper on 01/10/2007 17:59:16 Originally by: Marcathonas Originally by: Drek Grapper Don't worry..only a (rich) fool would fit rigs on a PVP cruiser. That being the case (ie: No rigs) it's a bloody close fight between Rax and Rup. If both had ecm drones....shew, the lucky one wins! Trimarks are pretty cheap. I wouldn't be averse to putting one on a 1600 plateruppy. At 13million plus isk, I just can't bring myself to do it.. Edit: In fact i should take that 'rigs on a cruiser' comment back as i fit falloff rigs on my Stabbers! But that's different cos your survivability is much much higher! Falloff rigs are dirt cheap these days. I make them myself and my cost (if I buy the mats) is a little over 3 mil a pop. Originally by: Marquis Dean As with most threads in Ships & Mods, it ended up with Ryysa yelling at everyone.
Cpt Branko The Bloody Red	Posted - 2007.10.01 18:58:00 - [27] Originally by: VJ Maverick Falloff rigs are dirt cheap these days. I make them myself and my cost (if I buy the mats) is a little over 3 mil a pop. You are failing at basic economics - there's always a 'opportunity cost' involved. If you can sell the rigs for 10M, then you basically lost 10M (or, they cost 10M) when the ship explodes. If I fit a DB hardener on my Hurricane which I found off a faction spawn, does it make it cost any less then the one I got off an auction? No. I just made the 20M when I picked it up - it still costs 20M to lose one, even if my wallet balance didn't budge at all. Rigging a T1 cruiser is mostly meh. Maybe a T2-fit stabber, and that's a big maybe. Basically, will the trimarked Rupture make the extra 13M over the non-trimarked one from loot&ransoms before it explodes? If no, then it's stupid to rig it.
lag kills Kapital Punishment Karnal Knowledge	Posted - 2007.10.01 20:15:00 - [28] Originally by: Cpt Branko Originally by: VJ Maverick Falloff rigs are dirt cheap these days. I make them myself and my cost (if I buy the mats) is a little over 3 mil a pop. You are failing at basic economics - there's always a 'opportunity cost' involved. If you can sell the rigs for 10M, then you basically lost 10M (or, they cost 10M) when the ship explodes. Only if he had planned on selling the rigged ship. ___________________________ not all who wander are lost.
VJ Maverick Caldari Maverick Specialized Services	Posted - 2007.10.01 20:43:00 - [29] Originally by: Cpt Branko Originally by: VJ Maverick Falloff rigs are dirt cheap these days. I make them myself and my cost (if I buy the mats) is a little over 3 mil a pop. You are failing at basic economics - there's always a 'opportunity cost' involved. If you can sell the rigs for 10M, then you basically lost 10M (or, they cost 10M) when the ship explodes. If I fit a DB hardener on my Hurricane which I found off a faction spawn, does it make it cost any less then the one I got off an auction? No. I just made the 20M when I picked it up - it still costs 20M to lose one, even if my wallet balance didn't budge at all. Rigging a T1 cruiser is mostly meh. Maybe a T2-fit stabber, and that's a big maybe. Basically, will the trimarked Rupture make the extra 13M over the non-trimarked one from loot&ransoms before it explodes? If no, then it's stupid to rig it. You fail at basic communication. The point was not to calculate the exact cost, opportunity or otherwise, of falloff rigs. The point was to convey that fall-off rigs are cheap. Originally by: Marquis Dean As with most threads in Ships & Mods, it ended up with Ryysa yelling at everyone.
Rooker Lysian Enterprises	Posted - 2007.10.02 03:12:00 - [30] Originally by: Marcathonas PS: lolol rooker i killed ur rax etc. Meh... I want a rematch when they update the skills again. You had cruiser 5 to my cruiser 4 cause the mirror was old. =P -- This Space For Rent

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