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Hergautr
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Posted - 2007.10.03 19:37:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Hergautr on 03/10/2007 19:42:47
Edited by: Hergautr on 03/10/2007 19:42:02
Just want to make some things clear and bring CCP attention to it. ItÆs not affecting me at all (you can see why), but I really tired to see it happens with other players. It does affecting hi-sec mission runner who is not speaking my language. Some people probably will think that it can affect only mission farmers, but what I can see in my language chat û victims are everyone who prefer to play EVE running missions by some reasons and I belive everyone have their own preferences to play.
There are some players posting the detail instructions in my language channel about how and where to salvage wrecks from other mission runners, when its safe to still loot and how to screw somebodyÆs mission by stilling the mission item or agroing all the mobs around and warping out. Most of the players who following such way is our trial players doing it just to get ISKs and bay TK, mean somebody probably not only losing fun but paying for them to play for free. Some other trial peoples saying - they just doing it because they hate everyone who is not speaking Russian and complaining when they starting to use Russian in the local or help chanels (they call such peoples *** capitalists, ôpin**sö etc.), some others trial player just doing that because they were told by one player who pretend being EVE guru that agent runners part of EVE with need to be destroyed and than EVE will be better. Most of them all the time braving in the Russian language EVE channel how successfully they doing it without investing anything. Unfortunately, GMÆs do not speak Russian, so they canÆt ban peoples flooding our channel with very dirty words about others who do not understand Russian. Most of them just disappearing after 15 days trial of cource, but new people of this kind is still coming over and over. I observed that amount of such trials in owe language channel still growing every day.
First, as the person who is primary speak Russian (sorry for typos  ) û I would apologies for such scams representing our community.
Second, I would like to kindly ask CCP to do something with it. I would suggest do not permit trial accounts baying TK for ISK. Not sure that itÆs the right way, but just an idea.
For peoples thinking that it helping against farmers, I would remind û farmers are not baying TK for real money, other players have to do it. Of course it seems CCP pretty satisfied by such situation with baying TK for ISKs, business is business.
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Lebowske
Nosferatu Security Foundation
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Posted - 2007.10.03 19:48:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Lebowske on 03/10/2007 19:48:43
I think you are looking for the word "to steal/stealing" instead of still/stilling.
I'm Not sure if CCP can do anything about this problem, because of said language barrier - or monitor channels for that sake. They may ban a player or two, but those will very quickly show up with new characters again.
I think the it can be loosely defined as grieving - not sure tough.
Btw, what does the TK abbreviation stand for?
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- It's better to keep your mouth shut and let people believe
you're an idiot, rather than opening it and removing all doubt.
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Dmar
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Posted - 2007.10.03 20:02:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Dmar on 03/10/2007 20:06:41
Happens. Most of us there to play the game, but unfortunately some bad peoples feeling good when they know that nobody able to punish them.
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Hergautr
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Posted - 2007.10.03 20:08:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Hergautr on 03/10/2007 20:12:07
Thanks Lebowske.
Sorry - I belive the right abbreviation is TC not TK (time card/ time code). It was one of my typos..
I fixed the typo. At list I hope it fixed . For me itÆs petty hard to avoid typos due to small practice experience in English, but I keep learning. So thanks again for the help, really.
I may be completely wrong, but I believe that mechanic probably wasnÆt designed to make it possible a trial account earning in 15 days enough ISKs to play for TK for the 1st month. At least I see no reason for it. Maybe this is the thing need to be fixed.
At the moment this situation is just bringing more and more scams abusing the situation with trial accounts. Today I seen somebody saying he is seriously thinking if he is going to pay for the next month or not, just because of all such trials in our channel.
Cheers
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Marius Damocles
Ninja Ratz
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Posted - 2007.10.03 20:12:00 -
[5]
TK = Time Card... i think
My wife has a Nos ability that puts a "Curse" to shame. |
Auron Shadowbane
Teeth Of The Hydra
R i s e
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Posted - 2007.10.03 20:12:00 -
[6]
1) if it is an exploit call a GM about it so he bans those people. if GM tells its ok what they do just go to 2)
2) post their tricks on the public boards if it is not an exploit (illegal usage of game-mechanics).
3) everyone will know it and use it and then ppl will learn how to ovid their tricks.
4) 2 years alter ccp will fix it :P
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Hergautr
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Posted - 2007.10.03 20:14:00 -
[7]
GM told unfortunately its legal to do it.
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Lebowske
Nosferatu Security Foundation
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Posted - 2007.10.03 20:14:00 -
[8]
 Originally by: Hergautr
Edited by: Hergautr on 03/10/2007 20:12:07
Thanks Lebowske.
Sorry - I belive the right abbreviation is TC not TK (time card/ time code). It was one of my typos..
I fixed the typo. At list I hope it fixed . For me itÆs petty hard to avoid typos due to small practice experience in English, but I keep learning. So thanks again for the help, really.
I may be completely wrong, but I believe that mechanic probably wasnÆt designed to make it possible a trial account earning in 15 days enough ISKs to play for TK for the 1st month. At least I see no reason for it. Maybe this is the thing need to be fixed.
At the moment this situation is just bringing more and more scams abusing the situation with trial accounts. Today I seen somebody saying he is seriously thinking if he is going to pay for the next month or not, just because of all such trials in our channel.
Cheers
Your english is quite good, didnt have a problem with that :) There was just the TK thing I didnt get really.
But yes, some abbreviate it as TC, GTC or ETC. ;)
--------------------
- It's better to keep your mouth shut and let people believe
you're an idiot, rather than opening it and removing all doubt.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2007.10.03 20:18:00 -
[9]
To be honest, I'm not even sure it's that bad that we have dedicated "loot stealers" or "mission wreckers".
It only happends massively in major mission hubs anyway.
So the end-effect will be that more and more people leave those hubs, and the "would-be-griefers" get less and less targets to screw with.
In turn, this will make the life of those persisting in remaining in those hubs a little easier.
So, all the bad for the greater good.
Not sure the GMs should do anything at all.
It's a case of "going to sort itself out" 
_
Caldari N.V.T.F. is recruiting... |
Hergautr
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Posted - 2007.10.03 20:49:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Hergautr on 03/10/2007 20:50:45
IÆm actually more disappointed not by how they doing it, but why they doing it and what can be done against it. ItÆs like one 1-2 month young player paying his own money for the game and trying to work hard to get to level 4 missions and make enough ISK to make a good ship and at the same time some trial players using him to make their game for free while they are even have no skills to run level 2 mission by themselves without being popped. ItÆs more like that there is no way to play solo in NPC corporation in high sec without being abused by peoples with you can easily pop, but or have no right to do, or they are stealing you loot at the safe distance while you are fighting so its quite difficult to lock/web/scramble before they will disappear. And its more disappointing than such thieves have nothing to lose at all. They are using the rookie ships to steal your loot, so even if you will pop em û they are not losing anything. In the worse case they can abuse everyone, including their corp. members and friends. Their goal is to get ISK for TC, so when after 15 days they just will make another character - nobody will even know who this player actually was before.
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Anaalys Fluuterby
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.10.03 21:05:00 -
[11]
Easiest way to counter these players is to leave the highly populated systems.
There are plenty of slightly lesser-quality level 4 agents in systems that have a couple of dozen players at peak times, even in HighSec. If you insist on playing where everyone else is and the temptation to probe and find your missions is high, then you have to deal with the problem. Perhaps this is CCP's way to entice people to split up a little 
Move to a lesser populated system and you will only find someone entering your mission because you ****ed them off enough that they are going out of their way to interfere with you. I've run literally hundreds of missions and only had one person enter one, and that mission was done with friends in one of the popular mission hubs...
Originally by: CCP Chronotis
Since this thread continues to fight against the people who derail it into the macro miners witchhunt. I will move it to features and ideas discussion where ...
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Professional Troll
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Posted - 2007.10.03 21:17:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Hergautr
-Wrap to the container with mission item immediately after it was droped, steal it and wrap out, so the mission runner can't complete the mission until it will be re-spawn. Its enough to keep at the long distance ( I thing 100+ km) to be able to wrap directly on the container while the mission runner will have to fly to it.
This one is an exploit.
Your toys suck!
|T|R|O|L|L|I|N|G| My anti-drug.
Because CCP won't let me be an attention ***** any more and I don't want to become a ***** head  . |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2007.10.03 21:36:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Akita T on 03/10/2007 21:37:08
The ironic thing is that there's plenty of mission runners that would GLADLY have somebody salvage/loot their missions for them.
Personally, I stopped looting/salvaging a long time ago, and I even give a shout out in local to anybody who would want to loot/salvage my wreckage field.
Not even one single time has anybody taken my offer.
Of course, lately, there's enough corpmates that do the looting/salvaging (especially the "younger" ones).
_
Caldari N.V.T.F. is recruiting... |
Hergautr
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Posted - 2007.10.03 21:43:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Anaalys Fluuterby
Easiest way to counter these players is to leave the highly populated systems.
There are plenty of slightly lesser-quality level 4 agents in systems that have a couple of dozen players at peak times, even in HighSec. If you insist on playing where everyone else is and the temptation to probe and find your missions is high, then you have to deal with the problem. Perhaps this is CCP's way to entice people to split up a little
Move to a lesser populated system and you will only find someone entering your mission because you ****ed them off enough that they are going out of their way to interfere with you. I've run literally hundreds of missions and only had one person enter one, and that mission was done with friends in one of the popular mission hubs...
By myself, I still unaffected, as well and have couple of tricks not to being scanned so easily , its just slowing me down while I have not so much time to play and donÆt like to waste it for protecting myself from trial accounts when they have no reason to protect themselves cuz nothing can be lost.
IÆm aware about the problem with Caldari Navy combat agents, but unfortunately not familiar with other regions. By some reason most of l4 agents who giving combat missions in non low-secs are high quality and so creating such hubs. You can call me carebear, but yes û I do trying to stay out of low-sec till will be able to have good fight and afford ship loses due to piracy. By personal reasons I canÆt spend too much time in the game and it wasnÆt so good when I was waiting 4 hours for the deny mission timer to be reset to take one more try, just because the mission was for low sec. IMHO, high quality agents need to give some missions to low-sec, not low quality ones, so hubs will spread itself. I think I know 2-3 low-sec agents in the Caldari Space who can provide with level 4 missions out of low-sec, but I also know that itÆs soon will run into the same situation since there already competition of wreckers in Motsu, Aramachi, Saila. Actually everyone can look at the agent database to see what the options are and whith agents have neigboar low-secs.
But, beside all of this, and taking into the account that I do successfully avoiding such thieves, I strongly disagree with situation of what trials can legally do to get this game for free. There no such thing ôfor freeö exist, its only mean somebody else will pay. Also I do understand that CCP can potentially be interested in this situation because it can bring more players who actually canÆt afford paying real money for this game, so other player will pay for them by the way of TC. TC sold for ISKs is not coming from nowhere.
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Hergautr
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Posted - 2007.10.03 21:51:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Akita T
Edited by: Akita T on 03/10/2007 21:37:08
The ironic thing is that there's plenty of mission runners that would GLADLY have somebody salvage/loot their missions for them.
Personally, I stopped looting/salvaging a long time ago, and I even give a shout out in local to anybody who would want to loot/salvage my wreckage field.
Not even one single time has anybody taken my offer.
Of course, lately, there's enough corpmates that do the looting/salvaging (especially the "younger" ones).
Yep, I'm agree, this is ironic. Some time I need somebody to salvage and loot for me on the missions like blockade. It can take awaile and most of the wreks will lost without somebody salwaging it. But one the reason for some peoples looking to "steal" you wereks and loot you can see in my 1st post. They don't want to help you, they want to get ISKs and make you feel bad. Sorry for saying this, but this is what i observed in my channel to many times during last days.
Trying to explain to such peoples that there many other ways to get ISKs and that they actually can help to somebody and earn ISKs not always working, itÆs not always what they are looking for.
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Maior Interfeci
Caldari
NovaeDyne Industries
Frontier Trade League
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Posted - 2007.10.03 21:56:00 -
[16]
An idea to rectify this would be if CCP made it so that if anyone entered a mission runners mission uninvited (not in the runners corp/alliance/gang) they were free game without any worry of CONCORD interference. This would discourage mission crashers as it would not be economicly feasible to continue losing ships by becomming unwelcome guests.
Shanni the Corp thief. |
omiNATION
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.10.03 21:57:00 -
[17]
I met one of those Russian guys a while back, he shot one of my wrecks and got concorded. Personally I am not too concerned although in the future if/when CCP makes this flag-able, =) i'll be wanting more of them in my missions.
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Alora Venoda
Caldari
GalTech
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Posted - 2007.10.04 00:15:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Maior Interfeci
Edited by: Maior Interfeci on 03/10/2007 22:01:53
An idea to rectify this would be if CCP made it so that if anyone entered a mission runners mission uninvited (not in the runners corp/alliance/gang) they were free game without any worry of CONCORD interference. This would discourage mission crashers as it would not be economicly feasible to continue losing ships by becomming unwelcome guests.
To add to this, the mission crasher would still fall under CONCORD, meaning if he attacks you or fires at your wrecks he gets CONCORDed. But If you fire at him CONCORD will not come.
like maybe by entering the deadspace he is pre-aggroed as if he stole from the mission owner? and it does not go away until he leaves the deadspace 
~~~~ ~~~~ ~~~~
Take away the risk and it would make flying around in space utterly pointless.
Take away the flying around part and you make EVE into a space themed spreadsheet application. |
Thernys
Caldari
Dark Force Recon
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Posted - 2007.10.04 00:37:00 -
[19]
It is definitely most annoying to get a couple days old characters with bios boasting a 'long live mother russia' and crappy ASCII art, warping into your missions and being able to do pretty much as they will. I have to join the crowd that wants the salvage mechanic changed... and there's plenty of threads already full of good suggestions for those changes.
Anyhow, one thing that you can do, assuming they warp in on you while you're still running the mission and not already in your salvage boat, is shoot all your wrecks. Yup, just forget about all that loot and salvage, you wouldn't have got it anyway anymore, pop everything. Starting with whatever the thief is flying for, of course.
I just got the chance to do this today. A bunch of blood raider wrecks gone from right underneath a 4-day-old character's nose. Somehow he must've thought I just stole from HIM, seeing the EVEmails that I shortly then received. About how I'm a 'greedy idiot' and how 'I'll lose my raven a little later then :)'.
Needless to say these mails will forever be treasured by me as evidence that you can do your little bit to grief the griefers and lamers who would come and with zero effort and risk benefit from your work.
--
¬Me, ¬now. Quote me and you're sued! |
Taedrin
Gallente
Magellan Exploration and Survey
Rare Faction
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Posted - 2007.10.04 00:46:00 -
[20]
I wish noobs would come and steal my mission loot. I'm too lazy to pick it up myself so it just rots there most of the time -.-
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Sixtina KL
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Posted - 2007.10.04 01:47:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Akita T
So the end-effect will be that more and more people leave those hubs, and the "would-be-griefers" get less and less targets to screw with.
In turn, this will make the life of those persisting in remaining in those hubs a little easier.
Wrong. People are too stupid to avoid danger.
Case in point: I was playing an FPS yesterday, guarding a key corridor against the enemy. I had laid a demolition pack in the doorframe leading to the corridor in order to catch whoever might attempt to get through it. And if my enemy survived, I had two antipersonel mines laid down further along the corridor.
One person came and got blown up.
He came back and got blown up again.
He came back and got blown up again.
He came back and got blown up again.
He came back and got blown up again.
He came back and got blown up again.
He came back and got blown up again.
He came back and got blown up again.
He came back and got blown up again.
He came back and got blown up again.
...
Long story short, I killed him about once every 30 seconds, over 50 times 'till the end of the match, and in the exact same way every time. During this match, the guy kept initiating kick votes against me. Whiner.
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syphurous
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.10.04 01:52:00 -
[22]
Salvaging wrecks generated by other players is not stealing. You have zero rights to the wrecks generated by your activities. Stop whining, get out the mission hubs, and go cry about something else already.
The ability for you to tractor them and not others, is simply a mechanic that exsisted in the jetcan code that the wreck code was based on.
Taking the required mission loot is petitionable, they can do whatever else they like in the mission you contracted to with an agent. ( Its not your mission, its the agents and he's contracted you to finish it )
All you whiners have this false sense of ownership over things that designwise are not yours. Your all spoilt brats and obviously have no clue how harsh the real world is for alot of people.
If your seriously annoyed I hear there's a good game where everything is equal and no one is better than anyone else after the first 2 months, Sheep of Farmcraft or something.
___
Too Many Anchored Cans |
Surfin's PlunderBunny
Minmatar
mUfFiN fAcToRy
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Posted - 2007.10.04 01:54:00 -
[23]
Was this perhaps a Battlefield game? Because I just got hit with major Deja-vu 
Originally by: Liz Kali
Tic Toc Tic Toc , time is ticking
Originally by: CCP John Proctor
Gates made from your nearest scrap yard can only be so space effecient 
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Sixtina KL
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Posted - 2007.10.04 02:02:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Sixtina KL on 04/10/2007 02:02:46
Originally by: Surfin's PlunderBunny
Was this perhaps a Battlefield game? Because I just got hit with major Deja-vu
Your deja-vu is rather right.
Here's some more examples of people chasing stupidity:
-Soldier attempts to destroy an APC using a machine gun.
-I knifed the enemy commander. Rather than hunt me down, the enemy revived the commander. So I went and re-knifed the commander. Enemy re-revives the commander. So I re-re-knifed the commander, then knifed the guy reviving him, then re-re-re-knifed the commander.
-Soldier shoots anti aircraft gun at tanks and APCs.
-Soldier attempts to rocket-jump with a demolition pack and blows himself up instead. 3 times.
-Radar scan reveals an area crowded with enemy infantry and armored vehicles. Lone teammate soldier who is nearby does the only thing he can think of: he charges the enemy.
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Rilder
Caldari
THC LTD
Dogs of War.
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Posted - 2007.10.04 02:46:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Taedrin
I wish noobs would come and steal my mission loot. I'm too lazy to pick it up myself so it just rots there most of the time -.-
Same but I'd prefer if they asked, otherwise I blow up my own wrecks. Not that I do any missions anymore I got sent to 0.0 by my corp. 
--
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2007.10.04 03:18:00 -
[26]
@ Sixtina KL : bell curve, my faceless friend, the bell curve... some people are just too stupid for their own good.
The funny part is they don't even know they're stupid, quite the contrary.
Yes, I realize how ironic this must sound...
_
Caldari N.V.T.F. is recruiting... |
Captian Internet
Lead Bricks
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Posted - 2007.10.04 04:01:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Dmar
Edited by: Dmar on 03/10/2007 20:06:41
Happens. Most of us there to play the game, but unfortunately some bad peoples feeling good when they know that nobody able to punish them.
Just like the npc corp alts that huddled around wrecks when the privateers were in their prime right?
Changes to Local,War ,Navigation Shortcuts |
Akkarin Pagan
Minmatar
Raddick Explorations
Executive Outcomes
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Posted - 2007.10.04 05:49:00 -
[28]
Well I can see a couple of solutions here, that require CCP to do nothing.
Move to low sec. Idiot warps in, eats 8 1400mm shells, sits there blinking in his pod (I mission in a Maelstrom for style )
Or option 2. Idiot warps in YOU agro everything, and warp. Hopefully, he sits there in his pod thinking wtf just happened?
Ofc option 2 has its drawbacks, but ,ost people I know who mission have some nifty faction fit on their Raven (or CNR) which allows them to run everything forever without ever being at risk in a lvl 4 mission (which is another problem for another thread). Of course such an expensive fit should mean that agro mistakes aren't an issue anyway.
That said, it would be nice if someone outside my gang got flagged for salvaging from my wrecks. Although I only ever once had someone warp in on me (in a Falcon) as I finished the mission, and due to the range I was from warp in, he decided that he didn't want to come any closer than that .
Akkarin
Hopefully the mods won't play with this one
<3 - Immy
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Reven Darklight
256 FREELANCERS
Black Scope Project
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Posted - 2007.10.04 06:59:00 -
[29]
Originally by: syphurous
Salvaging wrecks generated by other players is not stealing. You have zero rights to the wrecks generated by your activities. Stop whining, get out the mission hubs, and go cry about something else already.
The ability for you to tractor them and not others, is simply a mechanic that exsisted in the jetcan code that the wreck code was based on.
Taking the required mission loot is petitionable, they can do whatever else they like in the mission you contracted to with an agent. ( Its not your mission, its the agents and he's contracted you to finish it )
All you whiners have this false sense of ownership over things that designwise are not yours. Your all spoilt brats and obviously have no clue how harsh the real world is for alot of people.
If your seriously annoyed I hear there's a good game where everything is equal and no one is better than anyone else after the first 2 months, Sheep of Farmcraft or something.
did anybody else lol at this? I know i did.
I actually consider anything i shoot to be mine, so when i shoot those angel bunker in missions, i expect them to be handed over, and if i ever shoot a POS, i expect that to be handed over too.
If an agent contract me to do a job, thats mine too and if some other guy comes along and tried to do my job, I'll shoot him. Which goes to my above statment and all his base are belong to me.
And i play Sheep of Farmcraft and i shoot sheep and they belong to me too.
The Real World is not EVE, well not the last time i checked, unless were all trapped in the matrix in which case, cool.
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XenoPagan
Enterprise Estonia
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Posted - 2007.10.04 07:42:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Hergautr
Some other trial peoples saying - they just doing it because they hate everyone who is not speaking Russian and complaining when they starting to use Russian in the local or help chanels (they call such peoples *** capitalists, ôpin**sö etc.)
oh man... I know what you're talking about- seen that kind of people around who abuse others in russian. and pretty badly too... call everyone **** imperialists/capitalists (what is wrong with them anyway, Russian Federation is imperial/capitalistic too!) and say how Russia should nuke Europe and USA. I don't get it why they are so hostile.
Anyhow, usually I'm just ignoring them, but sometimes it's just too much and then I'm starting to translate their speech into local. like "you know xxx ? yyy just promised to *****your mother" etc.
There is so much general hate by some russian players that it makes air thick. Luckily not all of them are that bad :) but people tend to generalize
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