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Measure agains gate camps

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Shmekla Gallente Lithuanians	Posted - 2007.10.04 11:02:00 - [1] That when you warp directly in to trap and cannot do anything about it is wrong. There bus be some possibilities to avoid such situation. Maybe not complete but partially. Well there may be a simple solution to weaken gate camps. When you jump from one system to another you appear near target system gates in about 10km radius sphere around gate. So now is easy position gang and intercept all incoming ships. But if that sphere would be lets say 100km radius around gate. You can appear in any random place in that sphere. Gang positioned near the gate could not even target you in time (they must come close to you to target). There would be some luck factor that prey appear close enough that gang can lock and scramble it. I even say that minimum distance from gate should be around 20 km. I don't know how big must be the blob which effectively cover all that area around the gate but there must be possible to organize enough ships to control all gate area. Such task would be possible to big fleets whose participated in alliance warfare . Small gangs would refer more to luck factor. From lore side: there must be some kind of fluctuation which prevent precise setting of arrival point, therefore you can appear in such sphere. Frankly I do not see reason why I must appear near gate in such small and precise position. My goal is to travel in wanted system and I don't care if I appear in 10km or 100km away from gate. Commonly people traveling long distance and they appearing in system, warping to another gate and so on, so they anyway must warp to another gate leading to next system and they starting position in system don't mean anything.
Jaketh Ivanes Amarr Do Or Die And Live Or Try	Posted - 2007.10.04 11:46:00 - [2] Most commonly used gate camp counter is scout alts. Secondly, the map. Helps mostly against pirate camps, as war camps don't really show up on maps. 3rd, scan the gate before you warp to it, either by warping to a near planet or by warping to the gate at 100km. Hope this answers your question
Mad0ne	Posted - 2007.10.04 12:21:00 - [3] Originally by: Shmekla That when you warp directly in to trap and cannot do anything about it is wrong. There bus be some possibilities to avoid such situation. Maybe not complete but partially. Dude, warp to nearest planet or belt or moon or station or or or..... whatever and use scanner! If you reallly realy do not have a good spot to warp and scan then you have only 50/50 chance! Warp to 0 and in case there is a blob + bubble = 1. u die 2. you get away possibilitie to avoid such situation
Shmekla Gallente Lithuanians	Posted - 2007.10.04 12:28:00 - [4] I'm talking about jumping from one system to another. And how can i scan another system gate ? It is only about that. And what negatives effect would be from such implementation? Maybe that gate gangs can not just sit on gate and shoot everybody didn't using their brains?
Jaketh Ivanes Amarr Do Or Die And Live Or Try	Posted - 2007.10.04 12:37:00 - [5] Originally by: Shmekla I'm talking about jumping from one system to another. And how can i scan another system gate ? It is only about that. And what negatives effect would be from such implementation? Maybe that gate gangs can not just sit on gate and shoot everybody didn't using their brains? Thats where you use the map and/or a scout alt.
Washell Olivaw	Posted - 2007.10.04 12:42:00 - [6] Originally by: Shmekla I'm talking about jumping from one system to another. That's when you use the scout alt/player. If you're hauling a billion worth of goods, you pay someone 500k to a million to warp ahead of you in something like a shuttle, interceptor, cov-ops, etc. They can survive the camp and warn you not to jump there and then warp back through the camp and find you another route. Alternatively, you bring a shuttle along in your cargo bay and scout ahead yourself. Takes time and 500m3 of your space, but saves your ship and cargo. You will need stations along the way though, so it's a bit tougher to use in 0.0 Anyway, as already said, the map is your greatest friend, just check for ship and podkills in the last hour. If it's a big number, there's probably someone gatecamping. Quote: Everybody has a photographic memory, some people just don't have film.
Mad0ne	Posted - 2007.10.04 12:43:00 - [7] Originally by: Jaketh Ivanes Originally by: Shmekla I'm talking about jumping from one system to another. And how can i scan another system gate ? It is only about that. And what negatives effect would be from such implementation? Maybe that gate gangs can not just sit on gate and shoot everybody didn't using their brains? Thats where you use the map and/or a scout alt. Thats where you swim back to gate or cloak or outrun enemys with speed! Thats where you ask your friend to be a scout! Scanning a gate in another systeb would suck big time! If you are a robber, you never know if there is a money in the vault or 9999 police men! Right?
Shmekla Gallente Lithuanians	Posted - 2007.10.04 12:53:00 - [8] thank guys for you "feedback" but you didn't tell me anything new and i didn't hear any constructive argument against it. It's like was opposing nos nerf "fly right ship, use right fit"
Washell Olivaw	Posted - 2007.10.04 13:14:00 - [9] Edited by: Washell Olivaw on 04/10/2007 13:16:54 Originally by: Shmekla thank guys for you "feedback" but you didn't tell me anything new and i didn't hear any constructive argument against it. It's like was opposing nos nerf "fly right ship, use right fit" You're right and then again, you're wrong. The purpose of a trap is that once it's been sprung, its target can't escape. You don't build mousetraps in which the mouse gets the cheese and walks away afterwards. You deal with traps by spotting and avoiding them. We gave you tips on how to spot and avoid. There are several levels you can go use to spot traps, each better at it at the cost of more time/isk consuming. It's actually quite a beautiful system when you think about it, considering none of it is hardcoded into the game. Which brings us to the effectiveness of the trap itself. If you just park a few ships, small stuff gets away. Just like when you set a bear trap you don't expect to find a mouse in it. You need to go through some effort to catch everything. It's a boring job yet, at least the tackler, must stay focussed or people get away. Lastly, the longer you stay, the more obvious your trap becomes on the map, reducing its effectiveness. To me, the current level is fine. To you, it isn't. But we'd need to take a poll or have CCP provide numbers in order to have some facts to argue about. Until then, it's a matter of personal opinion. In which case, you already did your job. By posting in this forum you gave a signal to CCP gatecamping might be too effective and we give the signal it's just fine. It's up to them to decide to investigate this issue or letting it rest. Finally, the lore: When it comes to the lore coming out in a 10km bubble is perfectly reasonable. The scientific article in the background story explains it better than me paraphrasing it here: Linkage Quote: Everybody has a photographic memory, some people just don't have film.
Shmekla Gallente Lithuanians	Posted - 2007.10.04 13:39:00 - [10] Originally by: Washell Olivaw By posting in this forum you gave a signal to CCP gatecamping might be too effective and we give the signal it's just fine. It's up to them to decide to investigate this issue or letting it rest. Yes, this is just suggestion like what it can be. For know I will keep using more time consuming methods to "completely" avoid gate camps
Chadwyk	Posted - 2007.10.05 14:53:00 - [11] Edited by: Chadwyk on 05/10/2007 14:55:59 few weeks ago i posted this problem => link <= and offered some solutions, i got huge public demand to close the thread and no one agreed, i have been insulted given silly comments and loads of BS , eventually i deleted the thread. it doesnt hurt to post my ideas one more time.. 1- to make more than one entry point when jumping from one sys to another 2- to be able to use some sort of technology using which u can probe the other side of the stargate or the system ur jumping too.. eg. probes..
Reggie Stoneloader Teikoku Trade Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.10.05 15:09:00 - [12] Gate camps are core gameplay. If there was a way to catch people without waiting at "spawn points" (gates, stations, warp-in spots at belts, etc.) then it might become reasonable to neuter camps. But that wouldn't solve your problem. If you could come through the gate at 100km and warp away, only to have an interceptor overtake you in warp and pull you back into normal space while the gang warps to your position to nuke you, you'd be right back here to have a whinge about it. You aren't looking for game balance, you're looking for an easy button, a way to use concrete game mechanics to support your lifestyle to the exclusion of all others. You aren't complaining about an exploit, you're requesting one.
Valandril Caldari Resurrection R i s e	Posted - 2007.10.05 16:29:00 - [13] Originally by: Chadwyk Edited by: Chadwyk on 05/10/2007 14:55:59 few weeks ago i posted this problem => link <= and offered some solutions, i got huge public demand to close the thread and no one agreed, i have been insulted given silly comments and loads of BS , eventually i deleted the thread. it doesnt hurt to post my ideas one more time.. 1- to make more than one entry point when jumping from one sys to another 2- to be able to use some sort of technology using which u can probe the other side of the stargate or the system ur jumping too.. eg. probes.. Emo much ? I don't know where this ** came from that u should be able to fly tho lowsec/0.0 100% safe, whoever started this bull - stop it coz this is not going to happend.. Contructive argument - wanna be safe, don't change game mechanism but just sit in empire. --- Battlecarriers !**
SirMoric	Posted - 2007.10.05 22:14:00 - [14] As things are now, gatecamps are the real option to catch lots of people travelling through a system. The stupidity prevails when people put two carriers or motherships on a gate with smartbombs and kill everything indiscriminately. Gatecamps are for no-brainers... really... But we, the travelling players, has a no-brainer as well, get yourself a trial account and use the character as a disposable scout for 14 days, then get a new account. If we want more sophisticated piracy we need the ability to drag ships out of warp between gates, maybe a module fitted on a interdictor that, when enabled, can drag ships out off warp when they're between gates. This would allow for more fun gameplay, where you have to warp via belts, moons, planets and so forth and hope these hasn't been camped as well, and the pirates have to think for a change. Then you should be able to remove the gatecamps. But honestly, gatecamps must be a REALLY lousy business, probably better payoff hunting rats in belts. rgds
Dryson Bennington	Posted - 2007.10.05 22:16:00 - [15] Here is an idea. Gate drone's. Each gate in low sector would have several drone fighter bays able to hold lets say 400,000 m/3 of drones or 8 drones. Each gate would have the empire type drone used, i.e. Gallentean, Ammar ect. When a vessel has set for ten minutes at a distance from 5k to 50km from the gate, the gate will issue a warning to leave the area. Within two minutes after this warning has been issued, the gate drones will launch and begin to orbit the gate. The autmated drone assembly facility would then turn on and produce another eight drones within thirty seconds. If the gate drones are attacked and destroyed then a drone will be laucnhed to replace the destroyed drone. This cycle will continue until the gate camping ships have moved away from the gate, out to a range of 1 A.U. The drones will then continue to orbit the gate for half an hour and then vanish like a wreck does.
Reggie Stoneloader Teikoku Trade Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.10.06 03:04:00 - [16] Drones? What's wrong with the turrets that are already there (and no generating eight entities' worth of lag, I might add)? In low-sec, the turrets should get meaner, maybe have their DPS increase gradually as they are active, so you can't tank them for more than a minute or so. That way, even a Nyx parked on the gate will eventually have to leave as its tank fails from the turrets, and a Myrmidon can only stick around for a half minute or so before it gets into serious trouble.
Emporors Champian	Posted - 2007.10.06 03:21:00 - [17] long as there is a plannet near by you can scan for ships and bubble so its easy to avoid a trap (IF) there is a planet near by. in my oppinion every gate should have a plannet! stations and every other stupid item in eve requires to be ancored off a plannet or moon. so make gates as well... add more plannets or reposition the gate to nearn a plannet or moon. you cant have 2 anchors on 1 moon so no worry about pos if gate there. its only fare to eve mechanics to anchor them off something
Emporors Champian	Posted - 2007.10.06 03:27:00 - [18] long as there is a plannet near by you can scan for ships and bubble so its easy to avoid a trap (IF) there is a planet near by. in my oppinion every gate should have a plannet! stations and every other stupid item in eve requires to be ancored off a plannet or moon. so make gates as well... add more plannets or reposition the gate to nearn a plannet or moon. you cant have 2 anchors on 1 moon so no worry about pos if gate there. its only fare to eve mechanics to anchor them off something. would be nice if in map you could see all the players near a gate and station because they are aware of surroundings but if you can jam them that be neat so you know there is a gate camp there jamming the signal so you turn around or you go through with a large party to even up the odds hehe.
Abrazzar	Posted - 2007.10.06 03:32:00 - [19] Here's a idea for spotting gate camps without having to resort to scouting alts: Jump probes Launched by a probe launcher towards a jump gate. Once in jump range the probe jumps to the other system. There it will fly back to the gate while scanning the area. It then jumps back to the system it came from. The player then can collect the drone for a 360¦ scan of 5, 15 or 50 km radius depending on the drone quality. The drone gets used up in the process. Campers that detect the drone can destroy the probe which will leave the probing player alerted of some kind of activity at the jump destination but without exact information on the amount and size of ships camping. Jump Probes have a cool down rate of 10 minutes or so to prevent probe spamming. And if you think this needs a countermeasure, the probe could be made accessible by a hacking module and a success will cause the probe yield a empty scan result to the probing player. Does that sound fair?
joshmorris Ravenous Inc. Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2007.10.06 12:06:00 - [20] u sux use game mechanics to avoid and stop trying to nerf things Man please change the arty sound from the pathetic but classic pew to something more like "chung chunk" I want meaty arty.
Cailais Amarr VITOC Fang Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.06 13:11:00 - [21] To the OP, have a look at the new T2 Black Ops Battleship. Its looking as if it will have the capability to jump to a covert cyno generator (created by a cov op recon ship). Ships of this nature, while having huge skill requirements will be able to dodge camps. An interesting development - we might even see smaller and smaller vessels get this ability if the Black Ops works well in game play terms. C. - sig designer - eve mail
Helen Hunts Gallente Red Dragon Mining inc	Posted - 2007.10.06 16:53:00 - [22] Gate camps can be fun for both sides.... The campers have no way of knowing whether that shuttle that managed to escape was a scout for a hauler (which isn't going to jump in now) or for a pirate hunting blob that is now warming up their targeting computers or even if that shuttle had a couple bil in BPOs in the hold. (It's been done before) If you can't find someone to provide some intel on what's on the other side of the gate and you MUST get through, fit WCS and I-Stabs and run like hell. With any luck, you'll have wnough WCS to counter scramblers and the Istabs will help you get into warp before you take too much damage from hostiles. Getting caught by a camp is no fun at all, but there are sufficient resources to avoid camps already without reworking the basic game mechanics. (And this is coming from a Carebear, so hush) _______________________________ Mine da rocks, make more ships. Pop da rats, make more rigs. Sell da gear, make more money. Any Questions?
Ilvan	Posted - 2007.10.06 22:07:00 - [23] Only problem with gate camps is that it's a stupid concept. Chokepoints in space. Problem is, CCP hasn't implemented any other real way to catch/trap players, so we're stuck with 'em.
Chadwyk	Posted - 2007.10.25 22:03:00 - [24] to tell u the truth with the new eve upgrade coming soon gate camp will no longer be a problem there r black ops with jump drives freighters t2 as well so only low tech ships will have to wrry about that.. and soon no1 will gate camp anymore
Macro Slasher	Posted - 2007.10.26 11:28:00 - [25] Originally by: Ilvan Only problem with gate camps is that it's a stupid concept. Chokepoints in space. Problem is, CCP hasn't implemented any other real way to catch/trap players, so we're stuck with 'em. Indeed. We simply must be able to assault people, including those who do not wish to be assaulted. Especially those, as they got the best cargo
Cpt Branko The Bloody Red	Posted - 2007.10.26 11:37:00 - [26] Originally by: Shmekla That when you warp directly in to trap and cannot do anything about it is wrong. Stopped reading here. When you warp directly into a trap, you're supposed to have veeery low chances of survival. You already made the 'I don't want to die' choice when you landed in the trap. You do
Plekto Priory Of The Lemon R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.10.26 20:47:00 - [27] Gah. More newbie whining. If you see a ton of red guys in system, it's a warning to proceed very carefully.

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