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Dubious Drewski
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Posted - 2007.10.05 16:24:00 -
[1]
Are haulers the only guys who should be scared?
I've been working my ass off for the past couple of months earning my first CNR, and slowly fitting it with nicer gear, gradually replacing all T2 with faction.
But I recently jumped through the Motsu-Saila gate and I emerged in a cloud of Domis, most with sensor boosters on. (Ok, about 7 or 8 Domis) "Gee, I wonder what they're doing here  " I thought to myself, and continued on.
But then I started to wonder - if my Raven had enough valuable gear fitted, and I was one day chosen for sacrifice, what would it take to suicide gank my Faction fitted CNR?
Assuming I had an omnitank setup and all support skills to 4 or 5. Would it take five Domis? Seven? Ten? What do you guys think?
 Originally by: Slayton Ford
a Drake is normally primaried last
And that's why I love that homely boat! |
Original Species
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Posted - 2007.10.05 16:35:00 -
[2]
First off, WHY ? I know the CNR is nice and all, but only one thing can make using a faction fit CNR fun, and thats pvp, where you will promptly lose it....
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Vitrael
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2007.10.05 16:38:00 -
[3]
If you work your ass off for months to afford a ship that just runs missions you deserve to lose it. You need to remember what Eve is all about. 
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Corwain
Gallente
Down In Flames
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Posted - 2007.10.05 16:39:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Original Species
First off, WHY ? I know the CNR is nice and all, but only one thing can make using a faction fit CNR fun, and thats pvp, where you will promptly lose it....
Actually the CNR isn't that good a PvP boat when compared to the other faction BS, especially the pirate BS (Cept the Nightmare, I dunno about post-nerf Baalgorn.) But even compared to the Navy Meg and Fleet Tempest it's not that awesome. Admittedly it's much better than the Navy Apoc...
--
A Solo Arbitrator vid, Distortion by Corwain |
Arrant Drew
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Posted - 2007.10.05 16:40:00 -
[5]
? Why fly a CNR, you mean? I dunno, just for ... the sense of accomplishment?
That's not really important, what I'm wondering is - has a mission ship ever been suicide ganked for its delicious gear and what would it take to get mine.
In other words: should I worry?
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Dubious Drewski
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Posted - 2007.10.05 16:44:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Vitrael
If you work your ass off for months to afford a ship that just runs missions you deserve to lose it. You need to remember what Eve is all about.
Hey now, don't make the assumption that that's all I do.
Why do you think I want a ship that can burn through the lvl 4s? So I can make cash - why do I want that? to fund my low-sec adventures! Plus, ratting in my corp's 0.0 drone space is more proffitable, yes, but it's DRONE space - the most boring ratting grounds in the galaxy. Plus I'm often jumped by raiding parties into out territory - so it's not safe for a non-pvp ship.
Originally by: Slayton Ford
a Drake is normally primaried last
And that's why I love that homely boat! |
Sokratesz
Paradox v2.0
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Posted - 2007.10.05 16:58:00 -
[7]
A CNR with good skills and a semi-decent tank on shields has about 50k normalised hitpoints which is about half that of a freighter and they can be ganked with 15 domis afaik. Increase your chances of survival by always fitting a damage control (you should have one, anyway) and always fitting a thermal hardener and invu field if your current mission-specific setup doesnt. (they almost exclusively use ogres for ganks) Prepare well and you will end up with HP much closer to a freighter or even over it, but if theya re determined you're still toast.
Paradox V2.0 is recruiting! |
Cyan Nuevo
Dudes In Crazy Killing Ships
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Posted - 2007.10.05 17:04:00 -
[8]
The CNR does have an advantage in that you can tank. I'd say you'll be fine.
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Proud Amarr pilot.
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Thrus
Caldari
The Phalanx Expeditionary Conglomerate
Blue Sky Consortium
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Posted - 2007.10.05 17:10:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Vitrael
If you work your ass off for months to afford a ship that just runs missions you deserve to lose it. You need to remember what Eve is all about.
Yes eve has alot of pvp, no it is not all eve is about. eve has a market with complex levels that i have never seen the like of in other games, addmitedly I haven't played all the MMOs out there but it is quite a trick to learn in and of itself. if you don't like PvE get every one to stop mining for trit for 2 months and watch PvP fall apart.
to contribute something useful. the biggest question in how fast your ship would go down is are your hardners turned on when they lock you? when people first come through a ate it is likely they do not have active hardners activated and are much easier to kill. What damage type are they dealing and what are you tanked for? if they guess right your going down fast, and they can check that when scanning you fittings. the real question is can you tank them until concord arrives?
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Xaen
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2007.10.05 17:26:00 -
[10]
CNR is pure epeen.
I'm perfectly happy with my vanilla raven for missions. Spending that much on a ship just seems foolish to me, but then I treat all my ships as disposable/replaceable.
A 560M ship that has 15% better DPS and 10% better passive tank (on an active tanking ship) than the 91M variety? I'll pass thanks.
But to each their own I guess.
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Support fixing the EVE UI |
Liang Nuren
The Avalon Foundation
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Posted - 2007.10.05 17:55:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Xaen
CNR is pure epeen.
I'm perfectly happy with my vanilla raven for missions. Spending that much on a ship just seems foolish to me, but then I treat all my ships as disposable/replaceable.
A 560M ship that has 15% better DPS and 10% better passive tank (on an active tanking ship) than the 91M variety? I'll pass thanks.
But to each their own I guess.
TBH, if I thought I was reasonably safe (e.g., I was a mission runner), I'd pay an extra 500M for a 10% damage increase... but I pay an extra 160M for faction webs over T2, etc, etc, etc.
It's just paying for excellence - and there's nothing wrong with that.
Liang
--
Retired forum *****. Plz tell me to STFU.
Yarr? |
Ishina Fel
Caldari
Synergy.
Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2007.10.05 18:13:00 -
[12]
A running Gist X-type XL booster plus boost amp can probably delay a good number of domis in addition to your HP buffer until CONCORD saves you.
However, I wouldn't go out and actually try to provoke it... that would be a darn embarassing and expensive loss 
Buff room for large link addresses in sigs plz :( |
bldyannoyed
Un4seen Development
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Posted - 2007.10.05 18:41:00 -
[13]
Id be concerned tbh.
Given that Domi can be bought for less than 55mill, fully tech1 fitetd for a suuicide gank and insured to the tune o0f nearer 60 mill a suicide domi pilot has very little to lsoe.
If there is enough juicy stuff on your ship i'd say you would indeed be a viable target.
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Mudkest
MetaForge
Ekliptika
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Posted - 2007.10.05 18:56:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Vitrael
If you work your ass off for months to afford a ship that just runs missions you deserve to lose it. You need to remember what Eve is all about.
fun playing, and if he finds it fun doing missions in factino ship then that's what eve is all about
-----
GIEV custom ship paint jobs!
I want my hello-kitty-kessie! |
Plagiatum
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Posted - 2007.10.05 19:05:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Vitrael
If you work your ass off for months to afford a ship that just runs missions you deserve to lose it. You need to remember what Eve is all about.
oh please do go ahead and explain what eve is about.
what is eve about?
its certainly not about hes enjoyment of the game now is it?
as we all know, there could only be 1 answer to this question,
what is eve about.
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LovelyRita Metermaid
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Posted - 2007.10.05 19:48:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Vitrael
If you work your ass off for months to afford a ship that just runs missions you deserve to lose it. You need to remember what Eve is all about.
Hmm, from your corp and alliance, I would guess EvE is all about RP. Is that what you meant?
Rita
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Judas Lonestar
Ganja Labs
Pure.
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Posted - 2007.10.05 19:53:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Plagiatum
Originally by: Vitrael
If you work your ass off for months to afford a ship that just runs missions you deserve to lose it. You need to remember what Eve is all about.
oh please do go ahead and explain what eve is about.
what is eve about?
its certainly not about hes enjoyment of the game now is it?
as we all know, there could only be 1 answer to this question,
what is eve about.
Oh thats easy.
EVE is about seeing the bottom line of CCP go up. Its about making CCP money.
What do YOU think its for? Ever wonder why so many broken things remain broken? Why fix it, we keep shellin out cash to play the game!
Not saying I'm going to quit either, but seriously. If CCP suddenly saw a 10% subscriber rate loss every month due to <insert problem> you can bet it would be a top priority to get it fixed.
Let me ask you, what do you think EVE is about?
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Liang Nuren
The Avalon Foundation
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Posted - 2007.10.05 20:09:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Liang Nuren on 05/10/2007 20:09:34
Originally by: Judas Lonestar
Oh thats easy.
EVE is about seeing the bottom line of CCP go up. Its about making CCP money.
What do YOU think its for? Ever wonder why so many broken things remain broken? Why fix it, we keep shellin out cash to play the game!
Not saying I'm going to quit either, but seriously. If CCP suddenly saw a 10% subscriber rate loss every month due to <insert problem> you can bet it would be a top priority to get it fixed.
Let me ask you, what do you think EVE is about?
Ok, so, it's pretty obvious that you've never actually worked on a video game, or been an artist.
The only people for whom the bottom line really "matters", is the Accounting departments and management.
The engineers (the guys whom everyone constantly flames) who build Eve don't do it for the money. Game developers simply don't get paid what they're worth in other markets.
It's all the rage to accuse every company of being money grubbing - but let's be honest. If CCP were really concerned about what "the masses" think, they'd turn this into "WOW in space".
Please engage your brain before speaking.
Liang
Ed Note: Management would make sure that any glaring errors that caused 10% of the subscriber base to leave every month got fixed, don't get me wrong... but your accusations are outlandish and foolish.
--
Retired forum *****. Plz tell me to STFU.
Yarr? |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2007.10.05 20:32:00 -
[19]
Judas Lonestar, you're saying that as if it's a BadThing™.
It's not bad, it's just bussiness.
Dubious Drewski, without a DC-II, an uber-CNR-fit has at most 120k effective HP, and probably around 150k with one... and that's faction hardners "omnitank". You could probably also tank up to 1500 DPS.
For you to pop in 30 seconds or less (before CONCORD shows up), they need to deal around 200k damage in those 30 seconds.
In comparison, a freighter has over 200k effective HP and can tank next to no DPS.
Bottom line, you are about just as easy to gank as a freighter.
A little bit under 7k DPS should pop you like a pinata.
Even a very cheap-fit gank dominix (think nonamed T1 ions and T2 damage mods plus Garde I) will be pushing almost 900 DPS out at max ganker skills... usually though, you can spot named neutrons with RCUs, Ogre IIs, faction ammo or somesuch, for well over 1k DPS on the ganker.
So, 7 decent-fit Dominixes should be able to pop you.
Even with a measly 500 average DPS dealt on you (crappy skills to on top of ubercheap fits), that still means only 14-15 Dominixes.
Basically, if they expect you to drop loot worth more than 1 bil or so, you are definetely a good target for suicide ganking... so, what, 3 bil worth of gear ON you or so, if they ignore the existence of a gist X-L as "too risky to play the one module card" ?
IMHO, full faction gear, even if not all of it quite top-of-the-line should make sure you DO drop more than 1 bil worth of gear easily.
__
Hmm, I keep wondering, why the heck don't more suicide gankers go near Motsu ?
Sounds like a place more rife with juicy targets as Jita anyway.
_
Caldari N.V.T.F. is recruiting... |
Acoco Osiris
Gallente
Sublime.
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Posted - 2007.10.05 21:35:00 -
[20]
Try to stay away from 0.5 and 0.6-and if you are suicide ganked, try to take one or two of them out. I doubt suicide gankers really pour on the tank, so you might actually be able to take one or two out before CONCORD arrives.
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One more soldier off to war...
And one Velator in my hangars. |
Dubious Drewski
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Posted - 2007.10.06 07:13:00 -
[21]
Alright, thanks all.
These stats and things were what I was looking for. My particular ship is fit nicely, but not nice enough to make a profit after losing 7+ Domis, even cheaply fit. Even if 100% of my modules survived. It doesn't appear that it would be profitable to attack me.
So I'm safe from logical Eve players. And it's only the other Eve players I have to worry about. I'm gonna lose this thing, aren't I.
Originally by: Slayton Ford
a Drake is normally primaried last
And that's why I love that homely boat! |
WildSide
Spartan Industries
Cruel Intentions
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Posted - 2007.10.06 08:10:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Acoco Osiris
Try to stay away from 0.5 and 0.6-and if you are suicide ganked, try to take one or two of them out. I doubt suicide gankers really pour on the tank, so you might actually be able to take one or two out before CONCORD arrives.
qft
atleast in 0.6+ it seems u got about jsut a cople of secs before they are jammed....and going down quite fast. Also drones get jammed now...after the concord boost.
_______________________________
Vids produced by me
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Feng Schui
Minmatar
The Ninja Coalition
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Posted - 2007.10.06 08:26:00 -
[23]
you have 2 benefits over a freighter.
1) You can tank. With a decent omni tank, you'll have alot of HP to go through. (More-so than a freighter. Remember, you have resists AND repairers. A freighter does not).
2) You can, I dunno, fight back? Between your DPS and CONCORD's dps, I would say you are rather safe.
Had some noob, awhile ago, saying he could get a gang of 10-20 cruisers to gank my mission ship. Yea.. right.
Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Rauth Kivaro ([email protected])
http://dl |
Acoco Osiris
Gallente
Sublime.
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Posted - 2007.10.06 10:15:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Acoco Osiris on 06/10/2007 10:15:47
Originally by: Feng Schui
you have 2 benefits over a freighter.
1) You can tank. With a decent omni tank, you'll have alot of HP to go through. (More-so than a freighter. Remember, you have resists AND repairers. A freighter does not).
2) You can, I dunno, fight back? Between your DPS and CONCORD's dps, I would say you are rather safe.
Had some noob, awhile ago, saying he could get a gang of 10-20 cruisers to gank my mission ship. Yea.. right.
Feng, suicide ganks happen in the space of 30 seconds while CONCORD comes to call (a lot less time in higher security like 0.8). Once CONCORD is there, the fight lasts AT MOST 4 seconds longer. Not too much time for you to get your shield booster/armor repper working, mkay?
Suicide ganks are massive DPS-you can't hope to tank them, all you can do is hope your ship survives long enough for CONCORD to come. And once you factor in a 30-second fight, a CNR's few advantages over a freighter are the ability to fit a DCU, the fact that you might just get one or two down before CONCORD arrives, and a bit less toothlessness. It's very difficult for a Raven to get more buffer over a 30-second fight than a freighter, and pretty much impossible if you're mission-fit.
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One more soldier off to war...
And one Velator in my hangars. |
Feng Schui
Minmatar
The Ninja Coalition
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Posted - 2007.10.06 10:19:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Feng Schui on 06/10/2007 10:21:23
i'm pretty sure a CNR, with 85 - 90% omni-resists, will have enough of a tank to out-last a typical suicide squad. <--- officer fit tank btw.
Yea, sure, if an actual PVP fleet came in, you probably would not survive, almost 100% guarantee loss, but a small 5-10 man suicide squad? yea, if you're not AFK, you can survive.
Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Rauth Kivaro ([email protected])
http://dl |
Acoco Osiris
Gallente
Sublime.
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Posted - 2007.10.06 10:43:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Feng Schui
Edited by: Feng Schui on 06/10/2007 10:21:23
i'm pretty sure a CNR, with 85 - 90% omni-resists, will have enough of a tank to out-last a typical suicide squad. <--- officer fit tank btw.
Yea, sure, if an actual PVP fleet came in, you probably would not survive, almost 100% guarantee loss, but a small 5-10 man suicide squad? yea, if you're not AFK, you can survive.
Even if you had 90% omni resists and 10k shields, that still only comes to 100k on your biggest buffer. Freighters have like 200k hull. If freighters regularly pop to suicide ganks, CNRs can.
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One more soldier off to war...
And one Velator in my hangars. |
Qui Shon
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Posted - 2007.10.06 10:51:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Qui Shon on 06/10/2007 10:51:14
Originally by: Dubious Drewski
Alright, thanks all.
These stats and things were what I was looking for. My particular ship is fit nicely, but not nice enough to make a profit after losing 7+ Domis, even cheaply fit. Even if 100% of my modules survived. It doesn't appear that it would be profitable to attack me.
So I'm safe from logical Eve players. And it's only the other Eve players I have to worry about. I'm gonna lose this thing, aren't I.
When calculating the profitability, do remember that not only do they get insurance on the ships, they can collect whatever mods survived from their own ships as well as yours.
Platinum insurance costs 18,5mil, payout 62,5mil. Domis can be had for 50-55mil, so the ship loss is only 6-11mil. Ridiculous, if you ask me. Actually, using current mineral prices in the region I'm in, it costs some 45-46mil to produce a Domi with ME50, so the ship might cost you 0-2mil, even. Add drones (f.ex. T1 Gardes don't cost too much, especially if you build 'em yourself) and a cheap gank fit of which you can keep 30-50%, by looting your own wrecks.
Insurace payout for highsec ganks is completely broken.
I'f I've made a mistake somewhere, do please correct it.
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Acoco Osiris
Gallente
Sublime.
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Posted - 2007.10.06 10:53:00 -
[28]
Check out the Typhoon for that sort of work too-EFTed T1 setups for both the Domi and Typhoon, the Domi can get a tad more DPS, but the Typhoon can get a pretty good alpha off its 4 torpedo launchers.
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One more soldier off to war...
And one Velator in my hangars. |
Lazuran
Gallente
Time And ISK Sink Corporation
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Posted - 2007.10.06 12:57:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
It's all the rage to accuse every company of being money grubbing - but let's be honest. If CCP were really concerned about what "the masses" think, they'd turn this into "WOW in space".
If they thought they could, they would be foolish not to.
isn't it funny how some people advocate both GTC<=>ISK trades and EVE being superior due to its cruelty and costly losses, when they use the former to circumvent the latter?
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Lazuran
Gallente
Time And ISK Sink Corporation
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Posted - 2007.10.06 13:00:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Acoco Osiris
If freighters regularly pop to suicide ganks, CNRs can.
Only that CNRs can fit WCS and aligns much faster.
isn't it funny how some people advocate both GTC<=>ISK trades and EVE being superior due to its cruelty and costly losses, when they use the former to circumvent the latter?
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