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Quick question on the price increase...pls no flames...

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Jin Roh	Posted - 2004.02.22 00:14:00 - [1] If someone may answer this? Is the VAT a function of where in the EU you are? For instance, if the actuall servers that are running the game are in London, or the company that owns the servers are in London would VAT apply? For instance here in the US if you buy something from the net in most instances you don't pay a sales tax unless that company has an office in your state.
Baldour Ngarr	Posted - 2004.02.22 00:18:00 - [2] As far as I understand it - and most EU directives aren't designed to be understandable - the EU rule stipulates that ANY company selling ANYTHING to a person living within the EU, that person must pay VAT on the item sold. I don't know how they propose to enforce that, but then, when do they ever do anything sensible. _______ "Soon" is an ancient Icelandic word meaning "some time before the next Ice Age."
Sin Ist	Posted - 2004.02.22 00:31:00 - [3] Edited by: Sin Ist on 22/02/2004 00:32:53 Edited by: Sin Ist on 22/02/2004 00:32:32 No. The transfers are only for purchases made for electronic commodities sold in the UK and EUM countries which Iceland is NOT. There is no VAT for anyone outside the UK. And to clarify a bit you will hear all this hoola about other coutnries saying the value of our dollar is diminishing. Thats funny since any country can set their own curreny conversion they so wish. Its not our fault. And I wont make CCP silly in saying in Iceland the dollar is any less valuable then the EUR becuase actually the USD is MORE valuable the the EUR in iceland by about .01 isk. Nice try and try again.
Baldour Ngarr	Posted - 2004.02.22 00:39:00 - [4] Quote: No. The transfers are only for purchases made for electronic commodities sold in the UK and EUM countries which Iceland is NOT. Iceland isn't, but the people buying, are. _______ "Soon" is an ancient Icelandic word meaning "some time before the next Ice Age."
Mon Palae	Posted - 2004.02.22 00:50:00 - [5] Quote: And to clarify a bit you will hear all this hoola about other coutnries saying the value of our dollar is diminishing. Thats funny since any country can set their own curreny conversion they so wish. Its not our fault. I know this isn't EVE related but I suggest you take a Macro Economics class. While a country may indeed set their conversion rates as they wish doing so is disastrous to their currency. The former USSR did that with the Ruble. The Ruble was utterly worthless anywhere outside of the USSR. Indeed, if you visited the USSR and converted money to spend while there you could not convert your money back. Even the Soviet banks wouldn't give you foregn currency for their own money...you were stuck with it. As a result the Soviet Union was relegated to bartering with others countries (e.g. XXX amount of oil for XXX bushels fo grain). IIRC when Pepsi or Coca-Cola (I forget which) went to seel their product in the USSR they traded their product for vodka than sold the vodka to other countries to make their money. In short, the market sets the conversion rate of a currency. As it should. (Of ocurse governments have ways to push their currency and that of others but it is still set by the market)
Attilla	Posted - 2004.02.22 00:54:00 - [6] Quote: And I wont make CCP silly in saying in Iceland the dollar is any less valuable then the EUR becuase actually the USD is MORE valuable the the EUR in iceland by about .01 isk. Nice try and try again. Well.. I live in Iceland. Here is the currency rate for today in Icelandic Kronas (ISK): US DOLLAR: 68.10 ISK EURO: 86.21 ISK How can you make a statement like that? And what do you mean any country can set their own currency conversion as they wish? What the heck do you mean? The numbers aren¦t just for show, you know. Nice try, try again. Yo Yo Yo Siggalafo
Sin Ist	Posted - 2004.02.22 01:04:00 - [7] Edited by: Sin Ist on 22/02/2004 01:11:25 Atilla fair enough. Not everyone is gifted in mathematics nor do most people have the time to do mathematical formulas. 1 USD = 68 isk or so. 1 Euro = 86 isk or so. 1 Euro = 1.26 USD 1.26 USD = 86 isk or so Which makes the USD JUST as valuable as the EUR. In fact if you do the math with EXACT numbers the USD is MORE valuable by a total of about .001 isk or so. Enjoy and dont be too hard on CCP. Sorry edited I missed your last question. Say you owned an island and you declared yourself as a country. Since you own your country you can say that your currency is called POD. I can then say that 1 POD = 1 million USD. Now the United States says no way 1 POD = 1 cent. I say ok well anybody who wants to spend USD on my island has to pay 1 million for 1 POD. And they say ok then whoever uses pod in USA, 1 pod = 1 cent. So to make this short you can say whatever you want for currency conversion in your country. To raise the value of your currency in other countries you have to keep it fair and not be totally crazy in your currency. Its sort of good will gestures between countries( a compromise).
Dianabolic	Posted - 2004.02.22 01:11:00 - [8] Quote: Quote: And to clarify a bit you will hear all this hoola about other coutnries saying the value of our dollar is diminishing. Thats funny since any country can set their own curreny conversion they so wish. Its not our fault. I know this isn't EVE related but I suggest you take a Macro Economics class. While a country may indeed set their conversion rates as they wish doing so is disastrous to their currency. The former USSR did that with the Ruble. The Ruble was utterly worthless anywhere outside of the USSR. Indeed, if you visited the USSR and converted money to spend while there you could not convert your money back. Even the Soviet banks wouldn't give you foregn currency for their own money...you were stuck with it. As a result the Soviet Union was relegated to bartering with others countries (e.g. XXX amount of oil for XXX bushels fo grain). IIRC when Pepsi or Coca-Cola (I forget which) went to seel their product in the USSR they traded their product for vodka than sold the vodka to other countries to make their money. In short, the market sets the conversion rate of a currency. As it should. (Of ocurse governments have ways to push their currency and that of others but it is still set by the market) China doesn't too badly.
Ronyo Dae'Loki	Posted - 2004.02.22 01:14:00 - [9] Quote: 1 USD = 68 isk or so. 1 Euro = 86 isk or so. 1 Euro = 1.26 USD 1.26 USD = 86 isk or so You just proved that the Euro is more valuble than the dollar. ------------- My salsa makes all the pretty girls want to dance and take off their underpants. I <3 ( . Y . )
Sin Ist	Posted - 2004.02.22 01:15:00 - [10] Quote: Quote: And to clarify a bit you will hear all this hoola about other coutnries saying the value of our dollar is diminishing. Thats funny since any country can set their own curreny conversion they so wish. Its not our fault. I know this isn't EVE related but I suggest you take a Macro Economics class. While a country may indeed set their conversion rates as they wish doing so is disastrous to their currency. The former USSR did that with the Ruble. The Ruble was utterly worthless anywhere outside of the USSR. Indeed, if you visited the USSR and converted money to spend while there you could not convert your money back. Even the Soviet banks wouldn't give you foregn currency for their own money...you were stuck with it. As a result the Soviet Union was relegated to bartering with others countries (e.g. XXX amount of oil for XXX bushels fo grain). IIRC when Pepsi or Coca-Cola (I forget which) went to seel their product in the USSR they traded their product for vodka than sold the vodka to other countries to make their money. In short, the market sets the conversion rate of a currency. As it should. (Of ocurse governments have ways to push their currency and that of others but it is still set by the market) The fact is the market doesnt determine currency values. Its the countries. Usually to save face and to not break relations they are reasonable(market is a determining factor). Else you get what happened in USSR when eevrybody just says screw them they think they are supreme, and ussr says no way our ruble owns all. If you are fair then people will accept your currency in their country. Else you insult other people. Its totally up to the countries to decide wether they even accept a foreign currency and how much it is worth.
Mon Palae	Posted - 2004.02.22 01:25:00 - [11] Quote: You just proved that the Euro is more valuble than the dollar. It isn't entirely correct to say it is more 'valuable'. In theory (and I forget the proper term for this) currency equates to how much it takes to buy a (presumably) similar product like a loaf of bread. Of course many things can determine the price of bread but if we assume all other things being equal then saying 1 ISK buys a loaf of bread in Iceland and it takes 1.25 US dollars the ISK is not actually more valuable...just less of them. If the US made it so there were only 10 actual currency notes for the whole country each note would be worth hundreds of billions of dollars. If the US treasury printed currency like they were leaves on trees the value of each note would plummet so as to be nearly worthless. For obvious reasons countries generally pick a middle ground between the two. I'll also allow that it gets a LOT more complex than this but at the base this is the theory.
Carmen Electra	Posted - 2004.02.22 01:31:00 - [12] In before lock __________
Mon Palae	Posted - 2004.02.22 01:35:00 - [13] Here's a quick example of what I was talking about: 1.00 US Dollar = 107.5 Japanese Yen Japan is not what anyone would call a poor country. They simply have it rigged so 1 Yen equals about 1 US cent. Buying a loaf of bread in either country should tag your wallet about the same.
Tokka Konnair	Posted - 2004.02.22 03:13:00 - [14] Quote: In before lock i second that with a 'lmao' __________________________________________
Azamien	Posted - 2004.02.22 03:26:00 - [15] Quote: There is no VAT for anyone outside the UK. Yes there is. Every country in the EU pays the VAT. In the end it's just about a method of doing things, and they equal out in the end. Some companies (SOE comes to mind) just tacks the extra cost of the VAT onto the subscription rate. CCP adjusts their rate to make up for the VAT. In the end, it's equal. I don't see what the big freaking deal about the price hike is anyway. Just use the 3 or 6 month plan...
Sin Ist	Posted - 2004.02.22 04:03:00 - [16] Edited by: Sin Ist on 22/02/2004 04:15:26 OK its easy. If 1 eur = 1.26 usd. and 1 usd = 68 isk. then 1.26 usd = 86 isk the same as 1 eur. since 1 eur = 86 isk. therefore in iceland the us dollar is worth exactly the same as 1 eur.
Azamien	Posted - 2004.02.22 04:24:00 - [17] Quote: Edited by: Sin Ist on 22/02/2004 04:15:26 OK its easy. If 1 eur = 1.26 usd. and 1 usd = 68 isk. then 1.26 usd = 86 isk the same as 1 eur. since 1 eur = 86 isk. therefore in iceland the us dollar is worth exactly the same as 1 eur. Umm, no. $1 = 68 isk 1 euro = 86 isk Therefore, they are not worth the same. You could do what you're doing with any three currencies on Earth, but that doesn't make them equal.
Carmen Electra	Posted - 2004.02.22 04:27:00 - [18] So, what does that equate to in jiggadollars __________
Sin Ist	Posted - 2004.02.22 04:54:00 - [19] Edited by: Sin Ist on 22/02/2004 04:57:04 Quote: Quote: Edited by: Sin Ist on 22/02/2004 04:15:26 OK its easy. If 1 eur = 1.26 usd. and 1 usd = 68 isk. then 1.26 usd = 86 isk the same as 1 eur. since 1 eur = 86 isk. therefore in iceland the us dollar is worth exactly the same as 1 eur. Umm, no. $1 = 68 isk 1 euro = 86 isk Therefore, they are not worth the same. You could do what you're doing with any three currencies on Earth, but that doesn't make them equal. Azamien I see where your coming from. But the fact is that 1 EUR = 1.28 dollars. 1.28 dolllars in isk is 86 ISK. The exact same thing as 1 eur = 86isk in the first place. Therefore it makes 1 eur and 1 dollar the exact same in value in iceland. Hope you understand now. I know some people are not gifted in mathematics but its true. I am strong in math. I wouldnt lie to you.
Ronyo Dae'Loki	Posted - 2004.02.22 05:08:00 - [20] Quote: Azamien I see where your coming from. But the fact is that 1 EUR = 1.28 dollars. 1.28 dolllars in isk is 86 ISK. The exact same thing as 1 eur = 86isk in the first place. Therefore it makes 1 eur and 1 dollar the exact same in value in iceland. Hope you understand now. I know some people are not gifted in mathematics but its true. I am strong in math. I wouldnt lie to you. No. They have the same value in Iceland relative to what the rest of the world sees them as. If 1 dollar was exactly the same thing as 1 euro in Iceland, I could make an absolute killing in currency speculations by trading my dollars for euros in iceland, then trading my euros for dollars anywhere else. ------------- My salsa makes all the pretty girls want to dance and take off their underpants. I <3 ( . Y . )
Azamien	Posted - 2004.02.22 05:09:00 - [21] Quote: Azamien I see where your coming from. But the fact is that 1 EUR = 1.28 dollars. 1.28 dolllars in isk is 86 ISK. The exact same thing as 1 eur = 86isk in the first place. Therefore it makes 1 eur and 1 dollar the exact same in value in iceland. Hope you understand now. I know some people are not gifted in mathematics but its true. I am strong in math. I wouldnt lie to you. You may be strong in math, but you're seriously falling behind in the logic department. Yes, 1 euro = 1.28 dollars. Yes, 1 euro or $1.28 equal the same amount of isk. But it's going to be that way for every single currency on earth. Try the conversion using pesos or yen instead. You'll find the same thing. But that does not make them equal. If I went to a bank in Iceland and wanted 500 isk, I would need to give the teller 5.82 euros. For the same 500 isk, I would need to give the teller $7.35. For the two currencies to be worth the same amount, then I would need to give 5.82 (or 7.35) for BOTH to recieve the same 500 isk. Do you see what I'm saying here? The bottom line is that 1 does not equal 1.28, ever.
Sin Ist	Posted - 2004.02.22 05:43:00 - [22] Ronyo true. I am talking about CCP's price increase and the reason they state that the value of the dollar has dropped dramatically. Just making the point that this is false. There are no valid reasons to say that, and to warrant a price increase is pure personal motivation on their part. If anything I think the UK'ers should be mad about the whole thing since they have got the price increase plus the VAT and not "just" the VAT. While the US has just got the price increase. So I dunno where they come from but ill bet 1 million isk they arent going to tell me.
Sin Ist	Posted - 2004.02.22 05:47:00 - [23] Edited by: Sin Ist on 22/02/2004 05:54:04 Quote: Quote: Azamien I see where your coming from. But the fact is that 1 EUR = 1.28 dollars. 1.28 dolllars in isk is 86 ISK. The exact same thing as 1 eur = 86isk in the first place. Therefore it makes 1 eur and 1 dollar the exact same in value in iceland. Hope you understand now. I know some people are not gifted in mathematics but its true. I am strong in math. I wouldnt lie to you. You may be strong in math, but you're seriously falling behind in the logic department. Yes, 1 euro = 1.28 dollars. Yes, 1 euro or $1.28 equal the same amount of isk. But it's going to be that way for every single currency on earth. Try the conversion using pesos or yen instead. You'll find the same thing. But that does not make them equal. If I went to a bank in Iceland and wanted 500 isk, I would need to give the teller 5.82 euros. For the same 500 isk, I would need to give the teller $7.35. For the two currencies to be worth the same amount, then I would need to give 5.82 (or 7.35) for BOTH to recieve the same 500 isk. Do you see what I'm saying here? The bottom line is that 1 does not equal 1.28, ever. Azamein, 5.82 euros = 7.35$ though. Your trying to hard. I am not a school teacher and I cant teach you simple mathematical logic or formulas in this thread. It would just be to hard to communicate it to you. If you are after mathematical enlightenment read a book or try looking on the internet. Your not far away from truth but your missing a few not so common sense logic that I dont blame you for. Instead of disagreeing to disagree just agree to disagree. It works better for all of us. After reading this thread again I know how its confusing. But just picture you living in Iceland. And then charge people subscriptions. write it out on paper. And then go shopping in a foreign country. its the most common sense idiot proof i can describe it. And dont say im falling behind in logic department becuase lol. Mommy says its not nice to point so i wont
Ishkur	Posted - 2004.02.22 06:11:00 - [24] OMG, Sin Ist... You might possibly be the funniest person I've ever seen on these forums. 5.82 euros = 7.35$ though. Yes, that is true. Do you have a point? 5.82 euros may be equal to 7.35 dollars, but both are going to buy you the same amount of ISK, which is really the point. Whether in dollars or euros, CCP just needs ISK. You admit that 5.82 euros = 7.35$ though. So therefore, 1 dollar < 1 euro. You claim to be an expert in mathematics, but I can assure you that you need more work in the subject. Thanks for making me laugh, though.
Azamien	Posted - 2004.02.22 06:38:00 - [25] Quote: And then go shopping in a foreign country. its the most common sense idiot proof i can describe it. Glad you brought this up. It's something I know something about, since I live in the States (until May) and my fiancee lives in Quebec. In other words, I DO go shopping in another country. But since we're not talking about the difference between USD and CSD, we'll go back to euros/dollars/isk. Bob gives me, for the purpose of this a citizen of Iceland, a crisp $5 bill. Pierre gives me 5 euros. Now I go marching on down to the bank to change this into isk that I can use. (We'll pretend for the moment that this particular bank won't charge a fee for this service, although you'd have a hard time finding someone to do that in real life.) I give the teller the $5 bill. She hands me 340 isk in exchange. Then I give her the 5 euros. She gives me 430 isk. 340 != 430 on any planet that I know of. Why does this apply to the conversation? Because CCP is charging the same amount of dollars and euro. 14.95 for one month. This means, because of the exchange rate, that the Europeans are actually paying more than the Americans, because of the stronger euro. See, that's why $1.28 != 1.00 euros. Not that those two numbers would ever be seen as equal anyway.
Sin Ist	Posted - 2004.02.22 06:56:00 - [26] Quote: OMG, Sin Ist... You might possibly be the funniest person I've ever seen on these forums. 5.82 euros = 7.35$ though. Yes, that is true. Do you have a point? 5.82 euros may be equal to 7.35 dollars, but both are going to buy you the same amount of ISK, which is really the point. Whether in dollars or euros, CCP just needs ISK. You admit that 5.82 euros = 7.35$ though. So therefore, 1 dollar < 1 euro. You claim to be an expert in mathematics, but I can assure you that you need more work in the subject. Thanks for making me laugh, though. No actually you give me the pleasure. lets say i create a country. I can say my countys currecny is called POD. I can then say 1 pod = 1 million dollars. US can say no way 1 pod = 1 cent. Foreign currency is irrelevant. It all equals out becuase we just happen to be considerate of each others currencies. Now since 1 does not equal 1000000. JUst becuase 1 EURO equals 1.28USD does not make the EUR any more valuable. They make up their own numbers we make up ours. The fact remains that 86ISK is the same "value" converted to eur or USD. They are saying that the USD is not the same value as the EURO. Which is false and I will explain why. I have 100$. I goto Europe and cash it into Euros and its something around 78 euros. I then go cash my euros into ISK which equals 6700ISK or so. I have 78 Euros. I goto US and cash it in I get 100$. I then take my 100$ and cash it into ISK which equals 6800ISK. Which actually strengthens my point in that the USD dollar is actually more valuable then the EURO in Iceland. I know its the elementary that confuses people. BUt hey *shrugs what can I do? For further pshyciatric consultation I suggest you goto www.xe.com which converts foreign currencies. Thanks
Sin Ist	Posted - 2004.02.22 07:02:00 - [27] Quote: Quote: And then go shopping in a foreign country. its the most common sense idiot proof i can describe it. Glad you brought this up. It's something I know something about, since I live in the States (until May) and my fiancee lives in Quebec. In other words, I DO go shopping in another country. But since we're not talking about the difference between USD and CSD, we'll go back to euros/dollars/isk. Bob gives me, for the purpose of this a citizen of Iceland, a crisp $5 bill. Pierre gives me 5 euros. Now I go marching on down to the bank to change this into isk that I can use. (We'll pretend for the moment that this particular bank won't charge a fee for this service, although you'd have a hard time finding someone to do that in real life.) I give the teller the $5 bill. She hands me 340 isk in exchange. Then I give her the 5 euros. She gives me 430 isk. 340 != 430 on any planet that I know of. Why does this apply to the conversation? Because CCP is charging the same amount of dollars and euro. 14.95 for one month. This means, because of the exchange rate, that the Europeans are actually paying more than the Americans, because of the stronger euro. See, that's why $1.28 != 1.00 euros. Not that those two numbers would ever be seen as equal anyway. Hmm but since Europe says that 1 euro is more then 1 dollar you cant use that analogy. Thats like using my own country example. I buy a island and declare my country EVE. Then i create a currency called POD. I then say 1 POD = 1 million USD. Then US says no way and says 1 pod = 1 cent. Then I say fine im sticking by my POD and anyone who wants to come spend money here has to pay 1 million USD for 1 POD. Its like ISK for example. 1 USD = 68isk. Obviously 68ISK !+(doesnotequal) 68 dollars. Countries make up their own conversions for each other. WHile your trying to argue you arguiing something that is obfuscating the truth. LIke I said sign up for a college class. Read a book. Go on IRC or a forum and talk to some smarter people. You obviously arent taking MY word so maybe you need to either be comforted by equally as wrong people or you need to ask be told the truth from someone you can beleive to be smart. I dunno. Like I said people sometimes cant be taught things. Their brain has defensive measures which some people cant bypass. I guess i struck your defense method and you are just disagreeing with me to disagree. But you probably ACTUALLY think your right which is why you are refusing to udnerstand or have come to the enlightenment yet. Youll agree with me someday I have faith.
Azamien	Posted - 2004.02.22 07:03:00 - [28] Quote: I have 100$. I goto Europe and cash it into Euros and its something around 78 euros. I then go cash my euros into ISK which equals 6700ISK or so. Your math is bad there. $100 = 86 euros = 7396 isk. And I won't even get into the confusion that is your understanding of the global currency exchange. You really should research that a bit. You're way off. To put it simply... it has nothing to do with what a country says a currency is worth.
Sin Ist	Posted - 2004.02.22 07:08:00 - [29] Negative. 100$ = 78.9 Euros as of 15 minutes ago. Ill put my money on this whole thing was a joke and your just arguing with me for the sake of arguing. Someone needs a corp war or something to keep ya busy.
Ishkur	Posted - 2004.02.22 07:17:00 - [30] Quote: I have 100$. I goto Europe and cash it into Euros and its something around 78 euros. I then go cash my euros into ISK which equals 6700ISK or so. I have 78 Euros. I goto US and cash it in I get 100$. I then take my 100$ and cash it into ISK which equals 6800ISK. Well the reason the numbers aren't exact, Sin, is that you are rounding. Do it without rounding and you'll see the numbers are exactly the same. You take 100 USD and convert to Euros and you'll get 78.9702 EUR (according to the website you list, www.xe.com). You take 100 USD and convert to Icelandic Kronas and you'll get 6,809.98 ISK. You take 78.9702 EUR and convert to Icelandic Kronas and you'll get 6,809.98 ISK. Why is that? Because you HAVE ALREADY CONVERTED DOLLARS INTO EUROS. Of COURSE you'd get the same result. That's a basic LAW of mathematics. This is really not a difficult concept. Your "elementary" mathematics have failed you miserably. You could, however, do statistics work for the government, as you seem to have a knack for mixing numbers up and trying to prove a non-existent point. And others are right, you need a serious lesson in macroeconomics to understand how international currencies work. You can internally set your currency rates to whatever you like (as you mention) but it doesn't mean anything. I can say my name is George W. Bush and I'm the President of the United States. Unfortunately, saying it does not make it so. Which actually strengthens my point in that the USD dollar is actually more valuable then the EURO in Iceland. I know its the elementary that confuses people. BUt hey *shrugs what can I do? For further pshyciatric consultation I suggest you goto www.xe.com which converts foreign currencies. Thanks
Baldour Ngarr	Posted - 2004.02.22 07:21:00 - [31] I hear the sound of clicking.... Anyway ... those of you who insist that the dollar is worth exactly the same as the euro - you pay my 14.95 euro bill for me, and I'll pay you $14.95 bill for you. You won't object, will you? Since they're both exactly the same... _______ "Soon" is an ancient Icelandic word meaning "some time before the next Ice Age."
Azamien	Posted - 2004.02.22 07:23:00 - [32] Quote: Negative. 100$ = 78.9 Euros as of 15 minutes ago. Ill put my money on this whole thing was a joke and your just arguing with me for the sake of arguing. Umm, no. You're arguing for the sake of arguing, because I was using the numbers given earlier in this thread, which you were too until this post... regardless, someone else already re-pointed out the error in your math, so I'm not going to get redundant. A Beginner's Guide to Exchange Rates and the Foreign Exchange Market <-- Go learn something.
Sin Ist	Posted - 2004.02.22 07:33:00 - [33] Thanks but no thanks. I check the official currency market. How can I possibly be wrong? *me smacks himself in face
Azamien	Posted - 2004.02.22 07:35:00 - [34] Quote: Thanks but no thanks. I check the official currency market. How can I possibly be wrong? *me smacks himself in face You might check it, but you have absolutely no clue how it works. Conversation over since you've plainly shown yourself to be someone who argues for the sake of arguing, whether or not you have all (or any at all) of the facts.
Sin Ist	Posted - 2004.02.22 07:36:00 - [35] Edited by: Sin Ist on 22/02/2004 07:51:38 Ok time to whip out some ISK. Bet me 10000000 ISK else GO BACK TO HIGH SCHOOL ? pfff i feel insulted now.
Jagang	Posted - 2004.02.22 12:21:00 - [36] Sin Ist, u really crank me up boy. I have no idea what economics bible u reading, but I can see from your posts that market seems to be working in misterious ways for u. There is one authority that decides the values of currency and it's not the country to which the currency belongs to. It's called THE MARKET. Yes, the international market or more precise the level of transactions for that currency (or the import/export rate of that country if u will) decides the exchange rate of a currency. So, in the end, the good old supply/demand ratio. It's very simple u see, atm there is a greater demand for euro on the market than there is for us$, for various reasons. Hence the bigger price for euro. Yes, a country might decide to override the exchange rate of its own currency, but the traders won't care (see the Russia example, where they resorted to direct commodity trading, instead of their skewed currency). As for your math... Well, anyone who managed to pass the 4th grade must be laughing at your comments. Your math seems limited to integer numbers but here's some breaking news for u: there are other types of numbers in the universe! They're called real numbers or more common, floating point numbers. Did u notice that CCP introduced a decimal part for prices in Eve, or u're still selling trit for 1 isk? Jag.
Admiral IceBlock	Posted - 2004.02.22 16:07:00 - [37] my head hurts!! "We brake for nobody"
Sin Ist	Posted - 2004.02.22 22:09:00 - [38] Quote: Sin Ist, u really crank me up boy. I have no idea what economics bible u reading, but I can see from your posts that market seems to be working in misterious ways for u. There is one authority that decides the values of currency and it's not the country to which the currency belongs to. It's called THE MARKET. Yes, the international market or more precise the level of transactions for that currency (or the import/export rate of that country if u will) decides the exchange rate of a currency. So, in the end, the good old supply/demand ratio. It's very simple u see, atm there is a greater demand for euro on the market than there is for us$, for various reasons. Hence the bigger price for euro. Yes, a country might decide to override the exchange rate of its own currency, but the traders won't care (see the Russia example, where they resorted to direct commodity trading, instead of their skewed currency). As for your math... Well, anyone who managed to pass the 4th grade must be laughing at your comments. Your math seems limited to integer numbers but here's some breaking news for u: there are other types of numbers in the universe! They're called real numbers or more common, floating point numbers. Did u notice that CCP introduced a decimal part for prices in Eve, or u're still selling trit for 1 isk? Jag. Too bad your WRONG. A country sets their own currency value within their country. WHat did ****** win the war and noone knows about it? PLease. There is no secret government controling all the currency prices in the world. If for example Iceland says that they think the US dollar is absolute god thats their porogative and if UK thinks the US dollar is worth pennies then thats their poragative. No where does any sort of market or anything actually 100% set a currency value. Its all good will gesture. My math is CORRECT and its simple numebrs becuase that what it is. I never gave a forumla becuase any 9th grader can figure it out with the numbers i provided. Please go become proficient in mathematics, come back and we can talk intelligently. Else your just making yourself out to be a flamer and arguiing for the sake of arguiing with no real facts to back up anything your arguiing. If my math is wrong prove some of your own. If currency is decided by this uber secret government that controls the world then prove it. Else please stop insulting my intelligence by saying im wrong. Becuase you cant prove it so why try? I deal with people like you every day. They think they are always right and better. Its human instinct to try and be the supreme. Like a animal mating call they have to prove their better then the next to get the female. And in most cases one perosn usually loses and in this case unfortunatly its you. But no hard feelings becuase we arent fighting to see who is smarter or who is the supreme mater. We are just having a intelligent, worthwhile argument on a forum.
Azamien	Posted - 2004.02.22 22:29:00 - [39] Good god, Sin. Go learn about the currency exchange market, then try to argue this. Is is not some "secret goverment" that sets exchange rates. Why? Because governments don't set exchange rates at all! Why do you think that if you go to any currency exchange rate quote site, they'll all have the same numbers? Because they're all in touch with every major global government? No! Because government has nothing to do with it! If governments set the value of their own currency, do you think there'd ever be inflation? Do you think there would be national debts? No, because the government could just issue more money, and keep it at the same value. But that is NOT THE WAY IT WORKS. The exchange rate is based on supply and demand on the global commodities market. The euro is worth more than the US dollar because there is more demand for it. Why is the peso absolute crap compared to the dollar? Because there's far more pesos in the market than demand requires. Currency is just like any other commodity... there's supply, demand, and a set value based on those factors. Grab a clue, then try to claim that it's the people disagreeing with you (which have been all other posters...) that are trying to prove superiority. Your "I'm on the high road" act is lame, because not only are you just wrong, but you are wrong at a laughable, clueless level. And by the way, I saw your lame "U got owned!!!!" before you edited it out. Learn something about the global currency market, then try to make that claim. You're clueless, and beyond that you're the worst sort of clueless person... the kind that thinks he's right.
Dianabolic	Posted - 2004.02.23 00:47:00 - [40] The only way a government can affect the exchange rate is by devaluing or strengthening its currency through economic policy, such as raising or lowering interest rates - the only country in the world, that I know, which takes an active interest and plays a direct hand in manipulating the value of its currency on the international market is China. The rest is all free market economics, and even the Chinese have to pander to that every now and then.
Blade Durrant	Posted - 2004.02.23 01:12:00 - [41] First. The value of a currency is set by the international trading block for that currency (like the t-bill for the US). This is set via currency trading (buy xx t-bills at yy.yy price) and comparing it to other currencies to determine exact currency conversion rates. Of course economic recession/inflation will drive prices on a countries currency down (which is why the US dollar isnt as strong as it use to be, same with the yen), while increases in economic conditions/predictor factors drive the prices of things like t-bills up. Of course theoretically a group of countries could destroy one countries currency by selling/trading it for lower prices than its worth, and coincidently drive the value of it down, but countries and banks arent stupid enough to do this, plus there are rules governing international currency exchange. Individual countries dont set what currency conversion rates are. Those are a internationally accepted figure, which changes daily.
Azamien	Posted - 2004.02.23 02:02:00 - [42] Edited by: Azamien on 23/02/2004 02:03:55 Oh come on, Dia and Blade. Coming into this thread with facts will do one of two things: (1) Make Sin not come back, lessening the fun of watching him make a fool of himself. (2) Will just earn you a reply about how some people always need to be right, and that you can come back when you're a math expert like him. Which will it be?
Xavier Arron	Posted - 2004.02.23 02:23:00 - [43] Edited by: Xavier Arron on 23/02/2004 17:57:49 lol @ Sin Quote: Sin Ist: I am talking about CCP's price increase and the reason they state that the value of the dollar has dropped dramatically. Just making the point that this is false. There are no valid reasons to say that, and to warrant a price increase is pure personal motivation on their part. lol - So the value of the dollar has not dropped dramatically over the last 6 months? CCP set the subscription rate in dollars so everyone pays CPP in dollars (I may be wrong but IÆ am / I was billed in dollars and IÆm from the UK). Now the value of the dollar in relation to isk's (Icelandic kronur's) rose between July when EVE went retail and September so this was in CCP's favour and they made more profit. Since September the value of the dollar has dropped dramatically against the isk and it looks like the dollar is set to stay at this low or even fall further. This means that when CPP converts subscription cash back from dollars into isks it is now worth less to THEM. E.g. they were getting: September 03 12 USD = 996 isk Now (approx) 12 USD = 828 isk 996 - 828 = 168 isk price difference. 168 isk = 2.4 USD (at current rate per subscriber). Year on year CPP will no doubt put prices up anyhow, but with the dollar set to stay low and with the current EU directive on VAT they probably decided to just change the subscription price now in one hit along with adding the VAT for Euro subscribers. The US / Rest of the world price has been increase by about $2 dollars to $14.95 to cover the fall in the value of the dollar. The EU price is set at 14.95 Euros the same as the US price, but due to the higher value of the Euro, players in EU countries will pay more. Basically peeps in the EU will be paying equivalent to $18.68 USD a month. CCP is using the difference in the exchange rates to cover the cost of the VAT. However EU players are still paying equivalent to 18.68 USD a month which represents a blanket VAT rate of approximately 25% despite the fact that VAT rates vary across the EU from between 15-25% (UK is 17.5%). For example UK players will be paying ú0.74p or 1.08 euros (approx) more than they technically should since Iceland is not in the EU and as such VAT should be levied at the same rate as the member state in which the customer is resident. However I am not sure about the details of this new EU VAT directive on electronic goods and although Iceland is not in the EU, Iceland is in the European Economic Area (EEA) a free trade agreement between the EU and some European non EU members. As such CCP may be required to charge VAT like other European companies at the rate of where the company is established (VAT rate in Iceland is currently 24.5%). As such this maybe why the subscription charge is a flat rate for all EU players. Quote: Sin Ist: To raise the value of your currency in other countries you have to keep it fair and not be totally crazy in your currency. Its sort of good will gestures between countries ( a compromise). Lol û ôgood will gesturesö
Azamien	Posted - 2004.02.23 02:26:00 - [44] Quote: Since September the value of the dollar has dropped dramatically against the isk and it looks like the dollar is set to stay at this low or even fall further. While I agree with most of what you said, this isn't entirely true. The dollar gained against the euro and yen last week. So an upturn is possible. Besides, in less than a year, if the American people can get a sudden burst of common sense, there will be a different party in control of the government, and our economy might recover.
Xavier Arron	Posted - 2004.02.23 02:45:00 - [45] Im talking about general trends and thats half the fun of currency speculation. If there is going to be a significant upturn then i'll go out and buy my greenbacks now :)
Azamien	Posted - 2004.02.23 02:53:00 - [46] Currency is probably the last commodity I'd invest in, right after tech stocks. Way too much fluctuation in the currency exchange for my taste. :)
Riddari	Posted - 2004.02.23 05:10:00 - [47] Well last time I doubted Sin's statements he said I was harassing him. I'm getting pretty sure he's a roleplayer now! ¼©¼ a history

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