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Mr IBEX	Posted - 2007.10.11 19:05:00 - [1] Hey guys. I'm new here so if this belongs in another part of the forum move this please. I want someone to help me understand if I made a mistake or not... I'm going for a mining career and because I am a newb I went for the Exequror over the Osprey. I only now found out that the Osprey has a 20% mining laser yield unlike the Exequror but it's a little too late for that, since I'm almost done training Gallente Frigate level IV and I'll be flying the Exequror in about a day. I want someone to tell me if I should abandon the Galelnte training, and go for the Osprey or I should just get an Exequror and use that till I get to a mining barge... (I have no Caldari ship skills as of now) The only significant thing that the Exequror has over the Osprey is the extra turret slot which equals to an extra mining laser. But what is better in the long run? Extra 20% mining laser yield with 3 mining lasers or 4 mining lasers without the extra 20%?
Xuib	Posted - 2007.10.11 19:10:00 - [2] 4 miners over 3 = 33% increase. 20% yield bonus per level means with 2 levels of caldari cruiser you are out mining the exeq. I wouldnt worry about it tho, just train up to mining barge and use the exeq while you wait.
Exlegion Caldari New Light Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.11 19:12:00 - [3] The Osprey doesn't take long to train for and is worth it. And while you're training Caldari, save up for a Rokh. Stay mining in the Rokh until you have the skills for a mining barge. One of us equals many of us. Disrespect one of us, you'll see plenty of us. - Guru
Byzan Zwyth Dark Centuri Inc. Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.10.11 19:13:00 - [4] Edited by: Byzan Zwyth on 11/10/2007 19:14:48 Edited by: Byzan Zwyth on 11/10/2007 19:13:50 Gallente do have a mining cruiser and that ship is in fact the Vexor... saw my own mistake ---------------------- Rank: Tech 1 and a 1/2 cannon fodder Pointless forum slowing bandwidth hogging signature pic inc?
Trevor Warps	Posted - 2007.10.11 19:15:00 - [5] Hey, Short answer is Osprey. Long answer is it depends. If you want to drop your ore in a can and grab it with an industrial ship after, Osprey mines faster. If you want to fill your cargo and dock, Exqueror got bigger cargo hold. Osprey at caldari cruiser lvl 4 : 3 miners with 80% bonus = 5.4 miners Exqueror : 4 miners forever Good luck
Xuib	Posted - 2007.10.11 19:15:00 - [6] Then again, you will only need Caldari frig IV and Caldari cruiser II to fly an osprey and outmine the exeq, might think about training it up real quick before going for the long trains.
Cronuss Sincerer Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2007.10.11 20:18:00 - [7] The Osprey is great for mining. However, if you don't want to wait for the training, then I would buy a Vexor. I love the Vexor... possibly the most versatile cruiser. You can use 4 turrets and 5 drones. You also get a bonus to drone hit points, damage, and MINING YIELD. Also, the Vexor has a decent amount of cargo space.. and you can fit the thing to be a BEAST in combat.,.. 5 medium drones (or 2 heavy, 2 med, 1 light) and a few railguns or blasters. Go with the Vexor! :) http://www.eve-files.com/media/signatures/evesig1.JPG Signature dimensions exceeds max 400x120 dimensions allowed. Email us if you have any questions -Eldo Davip
Cronuss Sincerer Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2007.10.11 20:19:00 - [8] Originally by: Xuib Then again, you will only need Caldari frig IV and Caldari cruiser II to fly an osprey and outmine the exeq, might think about training it up real quick before going for the long trains. Yeah, but what's the math on a Vexor with 4 mining lasers and 5 mining drones and their bonus' to mining yield? I know I've seen the math somewhere on this... and I think the Vexor actually outmines the first mining barge. http://www.eve-files.com/media/signatures/evesig1.JPG Signature dimensions exceeds max 400x120 dimensions allowed. Email us if you have any questions -Eldo Davip
Liang Nuren The Avalon Foundation	Posted - 2007.10.11 20:23:00 - [9] Keep training Gallente, because at least when the can flippers come, you'll be able to defend yourself. And this will be an issue. Just don't do it in your mining ship... no matter what. Liang -- Retired forum *****. Plz tell me to STFU. Yarr?
Byzan Zwyth Dark Centuri Inc. Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.10.11 20:52:00 - [10] get a vexor and train for T2 mining drones, it will be like having ~3 extra miners fitted. ---------------------- Rank: Tech 1 and a 1/2 cannon fodder Pointless forum slowing bandwidth hogging signature pic inc?
Katier	Posted - 2007.10.11 21:17:00 - [11] Edited by: Katier on 11/10/2007 21:17:44 Edited by: Katier on 11/10/2007 21:17:26 FWIW I wouldn't go the cruiser route at all. All that cruiser training is a waste of time because your training skills which have nothing to do with mining. Minmater can fly a mining barge in about 1 day. The procurer whilst much maligned actually works fine down to 0.7. (Med shield extender then expanders in lows, single drone for defence). The Retriever is actually harder to setup to tank as it's CPU sucks, you WILL need electronics skills to get anything out of it ( but that's true of cruisers used in mining too usually ) and it isn't as easy to passive tank as the Proc.. but it has much better mining capacity. Takes around a week for the same noob Minmater - and all the training for it benefits mining except electronics and drone skills - I'd reccomend getting it so you can fly 3 drones, then load the barge with 2 meds and a small drone. Net result is in around a week-10 days your flying a respectible mining barge that can just about mine in 0.6 space ( if you can get your electronics to passive tank it you can probably mine down ot 0.5 ). Incedently this is the route I took on an alt character recently to give me a mining alt.
Acoco Osiris Gallente Sublime.	Posted - 2007.10.11 21:37:00 - [12] Originally by: Katier Edited by: Katier on 11/10/2007 21:17:44 Edited by: Katier on 11/10/2007 21:17:26 FWIW I wouldn't go the cruiser route at all. All that cruiser training is a waste of time because your training skills which have nothing to do with mining. Minmater can fly a mining barge in about 1 day. The procurer whilst much maligned actually works fine down to 0.7. (Med shield extender then expanders in lows, single drone for defence). The Retriever is actually harder to setup to tank as it's CPU sucks, you WILL need electronics skills to get anything out of it ( but that's true of cruisers used in mining too usually ) and it isn't as easy to passive tank as the Proc.. but it has much better mining capacity. Takes around a week for the same noob Minmater - and all the training for it benefits mining except electronics and drone skills - I'd reccomend getting it so you can fly 3 drones, then load the barge with 2 meds and a small drone. Net result is in around a week-10 days your flying a respectible mining barge that can just about mine in 0.6 space ( if you can get your electronics to passive tank it you can probably mine down ot 0.5 ). Incedently this is the route I took on an alt character recently to give me a mining alt. Hm. And mining FRIGATES can out-mine Procurers, and 7-turret battlecruisers/battleships can out-mine Retrievers? And with Drones V and a few levels of Drone Interfacing, you probably don't even need a tank to slap down 0.5 rats before they break your shields. Short version: you mistake why we hate the Procurer and to some degree the Retriever (though the Retriever is a good short-training option for those who want to go semi-AFK). They have lower mining yields than many combat-type ships, and have low fitting room-a conventional shield tank means no room for a survey scanner, etc. ------------------------------ One more soldier off to war... And one Velator in my hangars.
Katier	Posted - 2007.10.11 22:15:00 - [13] Originally by: Acoco Osiris Hm. And mining FRIGATES can out-mine Procurers, and 7-turret battlecruisers/battleships can out-mine Retrievers? And with Drones V and a few levels of Drone Interfacing, you probably don't even need a tank to slap down 0.5 rats before they break your shields. Short version: you mistake why we hate the Procurer and to some degree the Retriever (though the Retriever is a good short-training option for those who want to go semi-AFK). They have lower mining yields than many combat-type ships, and have low fitting room-a conventional shield tank means no room for a survey scanner, etc. all the quotes I've seen pointed to tank problems not mining yield problems and in fact a quick maths calculation makes me disagree with you. Ignoring bonuses ( which will pretty much cancel each other out OR benefit the barge ) the following is true :- 3xXECL - 2.35/s 1xStrip 1 - 3/s So NO frigate can outmine a Procurer and has no chance against a Retiever ( this is based on the above basic maths ) - I intend to work out a test in game but can't see how a mining frigate can outdo a barge, ESPECIALLY as most mining frigates ( all? ) used two lasers ( so nearer 1.5/s ). Similarly a cruiser, which for the sake of training time is probably comparable to a Retriver would need to be able to equip about 8 lasers to match. Plus if you've gone the barge route your likely to have better refining skills etc. That said I accept that they are gimped vessels, however still IMO the best option. Just wish they had more CPU. With 3 drones (or 5) a retriever could probably just about cope with 0.5 (especially if you can shoe-horn a med extender in). I run 2 mediums atm and can't cope.
Paulo Damarr	Posted - 2007.10.11 22:48:00 - [14] Edited by: Paulo Damarr on 11/10/2007 23:03:31 Edited by: Paulo Damarr on 11/10/2007 22:58:10 Edited by: Paulo Damarr on 11/10/2007 22:52:01 I checked some figures out based on my relevant skills:- Electronics/engineering lvl 5 Mining lvl 4 Astrogeology lvl 4 Mining drone lvl 1 Mining upgrades lvl 1 Drones lvl 4 Drone interfacing lvl 3 Gallente/Caldari cruiser lvl 4 Mining barge lvl 3 And these are the figures I get for different mining setups Osprey 3x Miner IIs 3x Mining drone I 2x Mining upgrade I Total ore yield = 612m3 Per minute Retriever mining barge 3x Strip miner Is 5x Mining drone I Total ore yield = 691m3 per minute (565m3 without mining drones) Vexor 4x Miner IIs 5x Mining drone I Total ore yield = 522m3 per minute Bantam 2x Miner IIs 1x Mining drone Total yield = 336m3 per minute Procurer 1x Strip miner I 1x Mining Drone I Total yield = 335m3 per minute Rokh 8x Miner II 5x Mining upgrade I 5x Mining drone I Total ore yield = 916m3 per minute I didn't bother posting the Exequror because it seems you cant even fit 4 miner IIs with the poor cpu it has. Tank wise the Osprey and the Vexor are the better choice as the natural attributes give enough defense for 0.5 rats and the Vexor can pack a set of combat drones and the Osprey can mount a missile launcher to deal with rats, the retriever has a tougher time with belt rats though because a small rep is enough to deal with the belt rats but you have to sacrifice the mining drones yield and use combat drones to defend yourself with. My mining skills are poor so most mining players will have better results than these. Edit Added Bantam and Procurer /sig --->Enter at your own risk<---
Katier	Posted - 2007.10.12 00:24:00 - [15] With those tests your comparing Tech II mining lasers, with Tech I strip miners. Even so highlights what I said in that the mining barges are no slouch. If you drop tech II strip miners ( which is feasible ) into the barges then they will do much better. Compare tech I with rech I, and the gap increases. Of course your comparisons leave you little or no defense by using mining drones.
Mr IBEX	Posted - 2007.10.12 01:07:00 - [16] Hey guys. Thanx for your answers. You see, I'm following the PDF mining guide I got here. It suggests using the Bantam, then the Osprey and then branching out into the Rokh or the Retriever depending on what the miner likes more - pure mining or mining and some PvP. This is why after I got the guide I felt stupid for going the Gallente route. since I already started training the Caldari line, I guess I'll just follow the guide. Cant really go wrong with that I guess. Maybe some of you are suggesting shorter ways to success and riches, but I suppose the people who made the guide know a thing or two about mining as well. One thing I cant understand is why the guide says NOT to use drones and some of you say to use them... I didn't read the drone thing carefully yet because I'm not that far yet. Maybe the guide talks about them in detail in the end... Anyway... I got 2 more questions: 1)When 2 mining lasers are equipped they actually look like 4 lasers on my Bantam. Well, sometimes when I come up to an asteroid, all 4 of them work, and sometimes only 1,2 or 3. Does this mean I should twist and turn my ship untill all of them activate or it's just visual and doesn't affect the mining yield? 2)For some reason unknown to me the Bantam cant warp very well. It stops warping after a short time and stops. I never had that problem with the Gallente mining frigate or any other ship I've flown. What gives?
Durethia Momentum. The Reckoning.	Posted - 2007.10.12 01:25:00 - [17] Originally by: Mr IBEX 1)When 2 mining lasers are equipped they actually look like 4 lasers on my Bantam. Well, sometimes when I come up to an asteroid, all 4 of them work, and sometimes only 1,2 or 3. Does this mean I should twist and turn my ship untill all of them activate or it's just visual and doesn't affect the mining yield? 2)For some reason unknown to me the Bantam cant warp very well. It stops warping after a short time and stops. I never had that problem with the Gallente mining frigate or any other ship I've flown. What gives? 1) The extra miners (or guns) are just for geometric balance. Doesn't matter how your ship is facing, or if just one is visually operable. 2) Caldari have poor capicitors. The distance want to travel in warp determines how much cap is required for the trip. For instance, most small roaming gangs in 0.0 will not have a Manticore (Caldari stealth bomber) with them, this is because the Manticore often has to double or even triple warp while everyone else can usually make a jump in one warp. There is a skill that can make this better, it's in Navigation.
Acoco Osiris Gallente Sublime.	Posted - 2007.10.12 01:37:00 - [18] Originally by: Katier Originally by: Acoco Osiris Hm. And mining FRIGATES can out-mine Procurers, and 7-turret battlecruisers/battleships can out-mine Retrievers? And with Drones V and a few levels of Drone Interfacing, you probably don't even need a tank to slap down 0.5 rats before they break your shields. Short version: you mistake why we hate the Procurer and to some degree the Retriever (though the Retriever is a good short-training option for those who want to go semi-AFK). They have lower mining yields than many combat-type ships, and have low fitting room-a conventional shield tank means no room for a survey scanner, etc. all the quotes I've seen pointed to tank problems not mining yield problems and in fact a quick maths calculation makes me disagree with you. Ignoring bonuses ( which will pretty much cancel each other out OR benefit the barge ) the following is true :- 3xXECL - 2.35/s 1xStrip 1 - 3/s So NO frigate can outmine a Procurer and has no chance against a Retiever ( this is based on the above basic maths ) - I intend to work out a test in game but can't see how a mining frigate can outdo a barge, ESPECIALLY as most mining frigates ( all? ) used two lasers ( so nearer 1.5/s ). Similarly a cruiser, which for the sake of training time is probably comparable to a Retriver would need to be able to equip about 8 lasers to match. Plus if you've gone the barge route your likely to have better refining skills etc. That said I accept that they are gimped vessels, however still IMO the best option. Just wish they had more CPU. With 3 drones (or 5) a retriever could probably just about cope with 0.5 (especially if you can shoe-horn a med extender in). I run 2 mediums atm and can't cope. The specialized mining frigates can get the equivelant of up to 4 mining lasers with a 20%/level mining laser yield bonus. And Katier, you REALLY need to raise your drones skill for mining, since they are very integral to defense (and maxing out mining yield). And once you get to battleships, you have a ship which can mine nearly as much as a Hulk. That's right, the King of Miners is nearly outclassed by a battleship. And as for T2 mining lasers vs. T2 strips-T2 strip miners get only 8-16% more yield than T1 strips, and use crystals. T2 lasers are at least a 20% increase, and require only Mining IV. ------------------------------ One more soldier off to war... And one Velator in my hangars.
Katier	Posted - 2007.10.12 01:44:00 - [19] Originally by: Acoco Osiris The specialized mining frigates can get the equivelant of up to 4 mining lasers with a 20%/level mining laser yield bonus. And Katier, you REALLY need to raise your drones skill for mining, since they are very integral to defense (and maxing out mining yield). And once you get to battleships, you have a ship which can mine nearly as much as a Hulk. That's right, the King of Miners is nearly outclassed by a battleship. And as for T2 mining lasers vs. T2 strips-T2 strip miners get only 8-16% more yield than T1 strips, and use crystals. T2 lasers are at least a 20% increase, and require only Mining IV. My main has excellent drone skills ;) when your working on a new char though it's a balance of what to train first so drone skills are lower priority.
Acoco Osiris Gallente Sublime.	Posted - 2007.10.12 01:48:00 - [20] I'd say defense is top priority. ------------------------------ One more soldier off to war... And one Velator in my hangars.
Ancy Denaries Caldari Isseras Manufacture	Posted - 2007.10.12 08:24:00 - [21] Originally by: Katier With those tests your comparing Tech II mining lasers, with Tech I strip miners. Even so highlights what I said in that the mining barges are no slouch. If you drop tech II strip miners ( which is feasible ) into the barges then they will do much better. Compare tech I with rech I, and the gap increases. Of course your comparisons leave you little or no defense by using mining drones. You DO know that training to use T2 stips are quite steep, don't you? Or are you another one of those fools why trade t1 strips for t2 strips and missing the crystal mining part? T2 strips SUCK donkey balls without crystals, and training for crystals are quite heavy.
Katier	Posted - 2007.10.12 10:24:00 - [22] Originally by: Acoco Osiris I'd say defense is top priority. Depends on the level your working in. With my alts skills I can mine in 0.6 solo. 0.5 isn't doable due to a mix of insufficient tank and insufficient DPS currently - but down to 0.6 solo isn't terrible. As for the crystals I hadn't checked the skill requirements on them. However having done so they're not steep at all. Out of the box I could use Veld ones ( or very close ) and picking up the refining skills for the ores I mine makes sense. So it's training that should be done anyway to get the best out of the ore you mine. Granted it does take longer than a Miner II. Would never compare a Procurer to a cruiser miner either, the Procurer is the frigate of the barge world. Retriever closer to the Cruisers and of course Coventer above that. Now whilst, with decent skills, frigates can be made to outmine Procurers, Cruisers outmine Retrivers etc. The reason I say go the route I do is that all the time you train up, say Frigate V (to max out a bantams mining efforts), I could already be on the Retriever (AND have better refining and mining skills). By the time that Cruiser is up to a Retriever (which I'd guess means your training Cruiser to V) Your well on your way to a Coventer. My alt, 1.2mill points, born 27th Sept, had excellent mining skills, flies a Retriever. Can out mine a frigate with ease and have much better refining skills than if I was working towards frigate V/Cruisers.
Katier	Posted - 2007.10.12 10:29:00 - [23] Oh and who in their right mind would use a 130million Isk ship for mining? Plus the expense of the skills etc. Waste of isk and a BIG hit on profits.
Ancy Denaries Caldari Isseras Manufacture	Posted - 2007.10.12 11:12:00 - [24] The low-end ores aren't very steep for crystal training no, but have a look at hedbergite or arkonor. Now there's comparable training to train from scratch up to a Covetor. I hope I didn't state that an Osprey outmines a Retriever. It doesn't. In no way :D The Retriever is superior to the Osprey in every possible way. I even think that a completely untrained Retriever (enough to fly it and use it's equipment) will outmine an Osprey with everything at V. And training Caldari Cruiser to V just to mine seems excessive. I have mine at IV, since I want to go for Caldari Battleship. No serious miner will ever train Battleship skills only to mine, that would be insane. A serious miner will from the start begin with a frigate (for instance, Caldari Frigate III or IV), work his Mining Skills up to par (IV to be able to use Miner II), move on to a cruiser and use it while training his Industrial skill to get a hauler, and continue in the Cruiser until the Retriever. Thats what my mining alt is doing anyway. However, my main, who is more mission/PvP related, has no need for Barge skills. So instead, I went with a Battleship that I can use for both mining and missioning. (Yes, I know the Raven is better, but the Rokh is funnier :D). But I will never agree to that the Procurer is viable as a mining platform for a beginner. It's a huge step down from the Cruiser. If you for some reason want to go from Frigate directly to Mining Barge, why bother with the Procurer? Head straight for Barge III and get a Retriver and get a HUGE increase instead of a minimal increase. It's yield is far too small to warrant it's use. If you're in a Frigate, you're close to get Barge III in another 2 days or so, so no real need to switch. And if you're in a Cruiser, why downgrade your yield? So, in essence I agree with everything you say, Katier, except the Procurer part. I'd never use it. Ever. Can't find a viable use for it. (Counting high sec mining above 0.5)
Katier	Posted - 2007.10.12 11:18:00 - [25] Edited by: Katier on 12/10/2007 11:24:49 Originally by: Ancy Denaries But I will never agree to that the Procurer is viable as a mining platform for a beginner. It's a huge step down from the Cruiser. If you for some reason want to go from Frigate directly to Mining Barge, why bother with the Procurer? Head straight for Barge III and get a Retriver and get a HUGE increase instead of a minimal increase. It's yield is far too small to warrant it's use. If you're in a Frigate, you're close to get Barge III in another 2 days or so, so no real need to switch. And if you're in a Cruiser, why downgrade your yield? There is one small caviet to the Retriever, it's not JUST Barge III, has a secondary skill two which added a couple of extra days to the training. I just used the procurer cos it's cheap, works and at low skill points it's hard to fit two miner II's AND a tank in a frigate. (can be done just not easy and procurer is cheap and quick to put together). a deliberate miner alt ought to be able to use miner II's ( and strip miner II with veld - not that I'm suggesting they use it hehe) from minute 1, however they wouldn't be able to fit it in a frigate (no electronics ). Oh and if you go for a mining orientated start you have Frigate I. So going for a cruiser or a Retriever is actually probably the same time (maybe quicker for the Ret).
Acoco Osiris Gallente Sublime.	Posted - 2007.10.12 11:19:00 - [26] Edited by: Acoco Osiris on 12/10/2007 11:22:34 Originally by: Katier Oh and who in their right mind would use a 130million Isk ship for mining? Plus the expense of the skills etc. Waste of isk and a BIG hit on profits. Um... Hulks cost even more. And battleships-get this-mine almost as well as the 3'rd tier barges with no need for training Industry V or Barges V. If you want your best bang for the time, you train for a battleship and fit like 4 T2 mining upgrades and a T2 co-processor (I suppose you could go 5 Aeodes, but they sorta cost half a billion each). EDIT: And also, I am NOT seeing that mythical "secondary skill" needed for the Retriever other than Barges III. You need Science IV and Mining IV to train Astrogeology IV, and you also need Industry V to train for barges, and those are the only secondaries on the Retriever/Procurer. ------------------------------ One more soldier off to war... And one Velator in my hangars.
Katier	Posted - 2007.10.12 11:27:00 - [27] Originally by: Acoco Osiris EDIT: And also, I am NOT seeing that mythical "secondary skill" needed for the Retriever other than Barges III. You need Science IV and Mining IV to train Astrogeology IV, and you also need Industry V to train for barges, and those are the only secondaries on the Retriever/Procurer. Procurer uses Astro III Retriever uses Astro IV which at low skill points as at least a couple of days training.
Paulo Damarr	Posted - 2007.10.12 11:32:00 - [28] Edited by: Paulo Damarr on 12/10/2007 11:34:33 I used T2 mining lasers in the figures because they have the same prerequisites as Strip miner Is so if you can use Strip miners you can use miner IIs. To mine in 0.7 space and below you have to swap the retrievers mining drones for combat drones and then the Osprey clearly out mines the retriever due to the slot allocation. The osprey has 3 Low slots and 4 med slots so you can fit 2 Mining laser upgrades and a Coprocessor and fit a shield tank (2 rat specific passive amplifiers and shield booster is enough) But the retriever only has 2 lows and 1 med so if you fit a shield booster you cant fit a survey scanner and although it isn't essential its pretty handy and if you use the low slots to fit a small armor rep etc you cant fit mining upgrades and you have to use combat drones which reduces your yield. So for systems with belt rats the Osprey IMO is the much better choice unless you can have a alt/friend there to tank and kill the rats for you. /sig --->Enter at your own risk<---
Mona X Caldari C0VEN	Posted - 2007.10.12 11:33:00 - [29] Originally by: Katier Oh and who in their right mind would use a 130million Isk ship for mining? Anyone with Hulk? :P
Acoco Osiris Gallente Sublime.	Posted - 2007.10.12 11:43:00 - [30] Originally by: Katier Originally by: Acoco Osiris EDIT: And also, I am NOT seeing that mythical "secondary skill" needed for the Retriever other than Barges III. You need Science IV and Mining IV to train Astrogeology IV, and you also need Industry V to train for barges, and those are the only secondaries on the Retriever/Procurer. Procurer uses Astro III Retriever uses Astro IV which at low skill points as at least a couple of days training. Mining Barges I requires Astrogeo IV, unless me, the EVE item database, my very recent experience, and EVEmon are all simultaneously wrong. ------------------------------ One more soldier off to war... And one Velator in my hangars.
Exlegion Caldari New Light Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.12 11:48:00 - [31] Edited by: Exlegion on 12/10/2007 11:49:38 Your immediate goal should be to get yourself into a Rokh with Miner Is. Then train for Miner IIs. If you'd like to continue a mining career begin training/saving for a Covetor/Hulk and Strip Miners. Then train for Strip Miners II. Strip Miner IIs are WORTHLESS without crystals. So obviously you'll then need to train for crystals, which will take time. The Rokh is worth training for if you want to become a serious miner since you'll spend a long time in it before being able to fly/equip better technology. On the other hand you won't spend long in a cruiser. Note: Do NOT use Strip Miner II's on your setup without crystals. Their yield is worst than Strip Miners. One of us equals many of us. Disrespect one of us, you'll see plenty of us. - Guru
Acoco Osiris Gallente Sublime.	Posted - 2007.10.12 11:57:00 - [32] Yep. Modulated strip miners have a base yield of 360, which is multiplied by 1.625 for T1 crystals, 1.75 for T2 crystals. This results in 8% better yield (over T1 strips) for T1 crystals and 16% better yield for T2s. A long time I'd say to train for fairly minimal yield increase. ------------------------------ One more soldier off to war... And one Velator in my hangars.
Xzar Fyrarr	Posted - 2007.10.12 12:00:00 - [33] Originally by: Katier Oh and who in their right mind would use a 130million Isk ship for mining? Plus the expense of the skills etc. Waste of isk and a BIG hit on profits. People who have money to do it.... And people who like clicking every 10 seconds....
Ancy Denaries Caldari Isseras Manufacture	Posted - 2007.10.12 13:02:00 - [34] Originally by: Xzar Fyrarr Originally by: Katier Oh and who in their right mind would use a 130million Isk ship for mining? Plus the expense of the skills etc. Waste of isk and a BIG hit on profits. People who have money to do it.... And people who like clicking every 10 seconds.... There's truth in that. There's a lot of drag'ndrop on the Rokh. Although having the miners run 4 / 4 you only have to drag twice every minute. But all I need to say in this matter is actually already in my previous posts.
Katier	Posted - 2007.10.12 17:11:00 - [35] Edited by: Katier on 12/10/2007 17:13:42 Edited by: Katier on 12/10/2007 17:13:20 Originally by: Acoco Osiris Originally by: Katier Originally by: Acoco Osiris EDIT: And also, I am NOT seeing that mythical "secondary skill" needed for the Retriever other than Barges III. You need Science IV and Mining IV to train Astrogeology IV, and you also need Industry V to train for barges, and those are the only secondaries on the Retriever/Procurer. Procurer uses Astro III Retriever uses Astro IV which at low skill points as at least a couple of days training. Mining Barges I requires Astrogeo IV, unless me, the EVE item database, my very recent experience, and EVEmon are all simultaneously wrong. http://www.eve-online.com/itemdatabase/EN/skills/spaceshipcommand/17940.asp Astro III You can train for Mining Barges I straight away as a new player. 2 days for Astro IV and a couple of days for sorting out skills like electronics and you can be in a retriever within 4 days ( quicker is possible but wouldn't advise it).
Paulo Damarr	Posted - 2007.10.12 21:27:00 - [36] Can mining spec chars start with industry level 5? /sig --->Enter at your own risk<---
Katier	Posted - 2007.10.12 21:45:00 - [37] Originally by: Paulo Damarr Can mining spec chars start with industry level 5? Minma's can yes, from the research I did they seem to be the only ones that can.

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