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SexehGallente
Gallente
Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2007.10.14 04:00:00 -
[1]
Am I the only one who has boycotted them? I skip up to the until theres a substantial gap in prices, which means I'm only paying a few thousand more isk at most. Just wanna know if I'm the only one??
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Stakhanov
Katana's Edge
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Posted - 2007.10.14 04:07:00 -
[2]
lol
 Originally by: F'nog
One does not simply log into Jita.
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xJohnnyDx
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.10.14 04:31:00 -
[3]
The markets are a whole other world of PVP. It can be more tedious and more time consuming than many other portions of the game. I personally don't mind rewarding the person that has the will and patience to sit there checking their prices constantly.
PLACE SIGNATURE HERE
What?! [Insert event here] happened? Quick, start a new thread on the forums!
"Moot", not "mute". |
Dubious Drewski
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Posted - 2007.10.14 04:38:00 -
[4]
It's pretty assinine to do this, but I realize that many people in this world have their quirks.
That's why I undercut by random, but equally insignificant amounts, essentially undermining the fellas like the OP who try to stick it to ya by "boycotting" you.
What a fun game.
Originally by: Slayton Ford
a Drake is normally primaried last
And that's why I love that homely boat! |
Hanoi Hana
Mitsubishi Group
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Posted - 2007.10.14 04:44:00 -
[5]
Err... I guess you haven't figured out yet that no matter which order you choose to buy from, the person with the LOWEST price is the one you buy from. Which means that even though there's the 1 isk person selling a ship for 999 ISK and a regular person selling a ship for 1000 ISK, when you choose to buy the 1000 ISK ship you actually give 1000 ISK to the person who had the 999 ISK order... which means you still gave the 1 ISK person his money and bought his item, and you actually paid him MORE than he was asking.
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Verx Interis
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Posted - 2007.10.14 06:29:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Verx Interis on 14/10/2007 06:29:29
Originally by: Hanoi Hana
Err... I guess you haven't figured out yet that no matter which order you choose to buy from, the person with the LOWEST price is the one you buy from. Which means that even though there's the 1 isk person selling a ship for 999 ISK and a regular person selling a ship for 1000 ISK, when you choose to buy the 1000 ISK ship you actually give 1000 ISK to the person who had the 999 ISK order... which means you still gave the 1 ISK person his money and bought his item, and you actually paid him MORE than he was asking.
That makes... no sense... at all. Why can't you just buy it from the order you click on? is that so hard?
Every time I sell something I always get what was up on my order for it. I've never gotten more then my order, and I almost always try to have the lowest price because most of what I'm selling I got for free. I think if you buy the more expensive one, like the 1000 ISK one, you buy the 999 ISK one and the extra 1 ISK disappears into the ether.
-----sig-starts-here------
I not what know I is doing. |
Dred'Pirate Jesus
Amarr
Ministry of War
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Posted - 2007.10.14 06:34:00 -
[7]
Unless there is a really huge difference in price I tend to buy from the closest vendor even if I pay a smidgen more.. Selling though? Jita 100%
Originally by: David Hackworth
ò If you find yourself in a fair fight, you didn't plan your mission properly.
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J Ripper
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.10.14 06:35:00 -
[8]
I always try to sell 99% of my items beating the lowest current market price 
If I think it`s too cheap I hang onto it for a while.
Makes no difference to me, I get quick sales for stuff I didn`t pay for in the first place!
I watch market often and adjust prices to suit.
my sig: --- Jon Johansen --- |
Moridin920
Gallente
Capital One
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Posted - 2007.10.14 07:20:00 -
[9]
Originally by: SexehGallente
Am I the only one who has boycotted them? I skip up to the until theres a substantial gap in prices, which means I'm only paying a few thousand more isk at most. Just wanna know if I'm the only one??
Why? I mean, seriously?
Does it bother you that much that they attempt to make their price seem lower by working at the subconscious of people scanning the market lists, or showing up as cheaper than their competition even if it's only by 1sk?
Why are you even bothering to boycott them? I can't imagine it can possibly bother you that much, but if it does let me worsen your shopping experiences in real life and suggest you look at prices in the real world, they are almost all like that, especially car dealerships and grocery stores.
And if one person flames me for making a real world example, I might explode. Just to try and preempt that, the real world example works in this rare case because the market in EVE is not driven by much more than the real world market, and the reason real life comparisons don't normally work is that they are comparing technologies or physics or realistic properties of the world vs the game's properties, which is silly. The market is different.
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"We sincerely apologize for any inconvenience our piracy may have caused you, but, we are pirates and, sadly, this is our way." |
Jannet Montard
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Posted - 2007.10.14 07:44:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Verx Interis
Edited by: Verx Interis on 14/10/2007 06:29:29
Originally by: Hanoi Hana
Err... I guess you haven't figured out yet that no matter which order you choose to buy from, the person with the LOWEST price is the one you buy from. Which means that even though there's the 1 isk person selling a ship for 999 ISK and a regular person selling a ship for 1000 ISK, when you choose to buy the 1000 ISK ship you actually give 1000 ISK to the person who had the 999 ISK order... which means you still gave the 1 ISK person his money and bought his item, and you actually paid him MORE than he was asking.
That makes... no sense... at all. Why can't you just buy it from the order you click on? is that so hard?
Every time I sell something I always get what was up on my order for it. I've never gotten more then my order, and I almost always try to have the lowest price because most of what I'm selling I got for free. I think if you buy the more expensive one, like the 1000 ISK one, you buy the 999 ISK one and the extra 1 ISK disappears into the ether.
It is a measure against isk buyers putting a 1 unit of tritanium (or whatever you want) at 100 millions to get the isk from the selleers.
As long as soneone has a normal sell order in the same station the isk buyer don't get the isk (and if you get absurd imports from a sell order, especially if they are in 100 million multiples, petition it to avoid problems).
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Mnengli Noiliffe
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Posted - 2007.10.14 08:09:00 -
[11]
actually this works only for orders in different station.
because when you place the order you choose station you want your thing in, and of course the price you wish to pay. so if you can find a station with lowest price that you prefer, then buy there.
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Fester Addams
Minmatar
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Posted - 2007.10.14 08:37:00 -
[12]
CCP should really make it possible to buy from whoever you want.
Market should include info such as who is selling and allow you to pick specific sale orders to buy from.
Ie if I choose to buy from Player X who has placed item G on the market for prize T then I should buy item G from player X at price T not from player Q who happens to offer item G for the lowest price 0.01 isk under player G.
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Ms Nomer
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Posted - 2007.10.14 08:45:00 -
[13]
the way I see it, undercutting by 1 or .01 or whatever nominal amount is really more of a de facto gentleman's agreement. You and your competitors both like where the price is at, especially if it's selling at a reasonable rate. So instead of undercutting by massive amounts, you have decided to keep the market pvp limited, instead relying on attentiveness and willpower to babysit your orders for the longest possible period of time.
if you have the isk and resources then by all means destroy the market for profit. It's not really annoying, it's life as a trader.
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Bishman82
Racketeers
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Posted - 2007.10.14 09:52:00 -
[14]
I found out about the market always buying off the lowest order in station when i was trying to find out who was undercutting me by 1 isk all the time, i tried to buy 1 unit off him and i ended up buying off myself 
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Ambo
2nd Outcasters
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Posted - 2007.10.14 10:03:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Fester Addams
CCP should really make it possible to buy from whoever you want.
Market should include info such as who is selling and allow you to pick specific sale orders to buy from.
Ie if I choose to buy from Player X who has placed item G on the market for prize T then I should buy item G from player X at price T not from player Q who happens to offer item G for the lowest price 0.01 isk under player G.
I believe this is done to prevent a loophole which would effectively allow a trial account player to transfer isk. It's not gonna change.
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Ban Shui
Eve University
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Posted - 2007.10.14 10:13:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Ms Nomer
the way I see it, undercutting by 1 or .01 or whatever nominal amount is really more of a de facto gentleman's agreement. You and your competitors both like where the price is at, especially if it's selling at a reasonable rate. So instead of undercutting by massive amounts, you have decided to keep the market pvp limited, instead relying on attentiveness and willpower to babysit your orders for the longest possible period of time.
if you have the isk and resources then by all means destroy the market for profit. It's not really annoying, it's life as a trader.
That's why I like undercutting sellers and overcutting buyers.
I can watch the scrambling resulting from the market instability.
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Gnulpie
Minmatar
Miner Tech
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Posted - 2007.10.14 10:26:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Fester Addams
CCP should really make it possible to buy from whoever you want.
As already said: action against isk seller. I am fine with that.
If you really know someone you want to buy stuff from it  contracts: item-exchange.
Can't see why CCP should change anything at all. Everything looks perfectly fine with me.
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Anson Halleck
Lost Eden
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Posted - 2007.10.14 10:29:00 -
[18]
Originally by: SexehGallente
Am I the only one who has boycotted them? I skip up to the until theres a substantial gap in prices, which means I'm only paying a few thousand more isk at most. Just wanna know if I'm the only one??
You pay more to the undercutter, cos market always buy from lowest sell order, no matter which one you click to. 
So as proud 0.01/1 ISK undercutter, I thank you for giving me extra money!
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Gypsio III
Darkness Inc.
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Posted - 2007.10.14 10:30:00 -
[19]
Quote:
Err... I guess you haven't figured out yet that no matter which order you choose to buy from, the person with the LOWEST price is the one you buy from. Which means that even though there's the 1 isk person selling a ship for 999 ISK and a regular person selling a ship for 1000 ISK, when you choose to buy the 1000 ISK ship you actually give 1000 ISK to the person who had the 999 ISK order... which means you still gave the 1 ISK person his money and bought his item, and you actually paid him MORE than he was asking.
It's amazing how many proplr don't realise this, and end up giving more money to the undercutter, when they think they're being all clever and trying to buy off someone else...
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000Hunter000
Gallente
Magners Marauders
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Posted - 2007.10.14 10:32:00 -
[20]
There are a few things u have to keep in mind, lowest price and psychological price are 2 examples but so is distance, if the cheapest item is like 10 jumps away from u, chances are u can sell it for more right where u are cuz sometimes people can't be bothered to travel a lot to get their item.
psychological pricing is another, if someone sells for 10 mill and u sell for 9.999.999 mill, works a little like in the supermarket where they allways sell stuff for 3.99 but almost never for nice rounded figures like 4)
CCP, let us pay the online shop with Direct Debit!!!
Magners is now recruiting, evemail me or Dagazbo ingame.
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fire 59
Destructive Influence
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.10.14 10:35:00 -
[21]
I refuse to buy from the stupid .3 isk cheaper people and usually go for the rational and round number. I'm not that hard up where i am going to try and save 5 isk 
"Random Goon " - why dont you kick box me about it, after your dad has killed himself of course
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Steve Hawkings
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Posted - 2007.10.14 10:38:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Hanoi Hana
Err... I guess you haven't figured out yet that no matter which order you choose to buy from, the person with the LOWEST price is the one you buy from. Which means that even though there's the 1 isk person selling a ship for 999 ISK and a regular person selling a ship for 1000 ISK, when you choose to buy the 1000 ISK ship you actually give 1000 ISK to the person who had the 999 ISK order... which means you still gave the 1 ISK person his money and bought his item, and you actually paid him MORE than he was asking.
Not if you click on the actual order you dont.
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Xander Bastalle
Gallente
Bastalle Holdings
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Posted - 2007.10.14 11:08:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Steve Hawkings
Originally by: Hanoi Hana
Err... I guess you haven't figured out yet that no matter which order you choose to buy from, the person with the LOWEST price is the one you buy from. Which means that even though there's the 1 isk person selling a ship for 999 ISK and a regular person selling a ship for 1000 ISK, when you choose to buy the 1000 ISK ship you actually give 1000 ISK to the person who had the 999 ISK order... which means you still gave the 1 ISK person his money and bought his item, and you actually paid him MORE than he was asking.
Not if you click on the actual order you dont.
Yes, you do.
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Drykor
Minmatar
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2007.10.14 11:19:00 -
[24]
I used to think the 1 isk undercutting was annoying too. Then I did some trading myself and found out it was actually in favour of all traders. Someone above in this post mentioned it as well. By undercutting with low amounts you make sure the price stays around the same level, if you keep shaving 1k or 10k or 100k off and do that a few times a day, the price drops drastically.
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Kel'dar Drax
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Posted - 2007.10.14 11:32:00 -
[25]
Am I missing something here...?
The lowest price always gets the sale?
Say I am in a station in Ikao and want to buy a kestrel for sale in Motsu...I click on the Motsu station line, click on buy and get the box that tells me to confirm purchase of 1 unit of Kestrel in Motsu for x price.
I then buy the kestrel and travel to Motsu to collect.
So how can someone with a cheaper kestrel for sale at a station 15 jumps away get the isk from that purchase...or am i missing the point?
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Susan Acid
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Posted - 2007.10.14 11:36:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Kel'dar Drax
Am I missing something here...?
The lowest price always gets the sale?
Say I am in a station in Ikao and want to buy a kestrel for sale in Motsu...I click on the Motsu station line, click on buy and get the box that tells me to confirm purchase of 1 unit of Kestrel in Motsu for x price.
I then buy the kestrel and travel to Motsu to collect.
So how can someone with a cheaper kestrel for sale at a station 15 jumps away get the isk from that purchase...or am i missing the point?
This
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Ooyama
Caldari
MindStar Corp
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Posted - 2007.10.14 11:42:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Hanoi Hana
Err... I guess you haven't figured out yet that no matter which order you choose to buy from, the person with the LOWEST price is the one you buy from. Which means that even though there's the 1 isk person selling a ship for 999 ISK and a regular person selling a ship for 1000 ISK, when you choose to buy the 1000 ISK ship you actually give 1000 ISK to the person who had the 999 ISK order... which means you still gave the 1 ISK person his money and bought his item, and you actually paid him MORE than he was asking.
Not quite right there mate,, did u ever check under details on a buy order?? then select the cheapest one, and where u wanna buy (etc.),, voila,, U suddenly decided where (and from whom) u bought the stuff...
Ooyama.
Originally by: Bimjo
you sir are quite right
my humble apologies
I shall park my navy raven in 0.0 for you to come and destroy with your ducktaped missile launcher on your shuttle
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Kyrall
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2007.10.14 11:53:00 -
[28]
You can try to defend undercutting by 1 or 0.1 isk as it doesn't make a difference, but if you keep watching you will see that the original seller, annoyed that the large amount of isk (in commodities) they have locked into the market because of the undercutting, then goes and reduces their price, normally by a significant amount (from my experience), not by another 1 or 0.1 isk.
I have always preferred undercutting people at the same price by putting sell orders up for a shorter time, as the order with the least time remaining takes the second preference, after the lowest price. The original seller then doesn't usually notice they have been undercut and so no price war ensues.
Or you could just be patient and allow your order to sell after the current order has gone. What happened to just being nice to people?
-
Take another step back until you find you've walked away... |
Dr Grot
Gallente
Warrior Eclipse
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Posted - 2007.10.14 12:35:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Kel'dar Drax
Am I missing something here...?
The lowest price always gets the sale?
Say I am in a station in Ikao and want to buy a kestrel for sale in Motsu...I click on the Motsu station line, click on buy and get the box that tells me to confirm purchase of 1 unit of Kestrel in Motsu for x price.
I then buy the kestrel and travel to Motsu to collect.
So how can someone with a cheaper kestrel for sale at a station 15 jumps away get the isk from that purchase...or am i missing the point?
Your not missing anything mate. The guy you bought the Kessie from in Motsu gets the ISK.
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Fswd
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Posted - 2007.10.14 13:08:00 -
[30]
Originally by: SexehGallente
Am I the only one who has boycotted them? I skip up to the until theres a substantial gap in prices, which means I'm only paying a few thousand more isk at most. Just wanna know if I'm the only one??
Enough ppl who DO buy so i dont care
---
Free exotic dancers for mods that mod my sig
*Snip* Please do not discuss moderation in your signature. -Yipsilanti ([email protected]) <-- freebie for you |
Fester Addams
Minmatar
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Posted - 2007.10.14 13:16:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Ambo
Originally by: Fester Addams
CCP should really make it possible to buy from whoever you want.
...
I believe this is done to prevent a loophole which would effectively allow a trial account player to transfer isk. It's not gonna change.
Just out of curiosity...
How would it change anything?
I bet that I can in less than 5 minutes find 3 products that I can put upp a sell order for in a Jita station that is not hindered by this.
#1, carbonised lead small proj ammo, all sale orders are in Jita IV - Moon 4 - Caldari Navy Assembly Plant, in Jita IV - Moon 5 - Caldari Navy Assembly Plant or in Jita V - Moon 14 - Yitri Storage.
#2, depleted uranium small proj ammo, sales are in the first two stations listed in #1.
#3, EMP small proj ammo, sales are in the same three stations that sales are in in #1.
Last I checked Jita had more than 3 stations and thus a shify alt player could use ither of thise three products to set upp bogus sell orders to use to transfer trial account isk.
If I move out of Jita the number of products will simply become more numerous and may even end upp as products CCP cant even complain about such as buying a ship, undocking, flying to a safe place and jetisoning.
I doubt CCP ever were daft enough to belive this would block alt isk transfers... especially as this was ingame before trial accounts were introduced to the game.
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Fester Addams
Minmatar
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Posted - 2007.10.14 13:26:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Gnulpie
Originally by: Fester Addams
CCP should really make it possible to buy from whoever you want.
As already said: action against isk seller. I am fine with that.
If you really know someone you want to buy stuff from it contracts: item-exchange.
Can't see why CCP should change anything at all. Everything looks perfectly fine with me.
Ok so say I want to buy 5mil Nocx, I check the market and try to figure out who that nice looking person that is selling for an even and fair sum is.
I cant use the forum.
I cant use the market.
In all probability I cant simply ask in local as ods are he isnt even there.
What you describe is what I could have done if I had a reliable supplier, like most people in EvE I dont.
When I need to buy or sell somthing I go to the market, as I am myself anoyed by people undercutting an item worth 100mil by 0.01 isk I try to avoid them even to the extent of shopping at a higher price in a nearby station but at an even price.
In reality what we have in eve is a locked market.
Lets say I happen not to like a corp... say Im at war with "Miner Tech", now naturally I would not want to make my purchases from Miner Tech as this would benefit the corp Im at war with.
But as I cant find out who is selling on the market untill after I have made the purchase I will in all probability have to accept the fact that not only will Miner Tech first have cost me a ship in PvP but then the ods are fair that I go and buy my new stuff from the same Miner Tech.
All I want is that A) the sellers name, be it individual or corp, is visable in the market and B) I get to buy from whoever I like.
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Fester Addams
Minmatar
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Posted - 2007.10.14 13:40:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Kel'dar Drax
Am I missing something here...?
The lowest price always gets the sale?
Say I am in a station in Ikao and want to buy a kestrel for sale in Motsu...I click on the Motsu station line, click on buy and get the box that tells me to confirm purchase of 1 unit of Kestrel in Motsu for x price.
I then buy the kestrel and travel to Motsu to collect.
So how can someone with a cheaper kestrel for sale at a station 15 jumps away get the isk from that purchase...or am i missing the point?
A sale is always awarded to the lowest sale order in the station you are trying to buy in.
Lets say I am trying to sell a kessie for 500k and some nutcase is trying to sell one for 5mil in the same station.
Along come you and in your hurry you accidently select to buy the 5 mil one.
Now you would think the other guy is going to go "whee! I just made an easy 4.7mil of some n00b!".
Well thats not what happens, you pay the 5 mil so for you there is no difference but I get payed the 5 mil for my kessie and get to go "woot? I dont try to sell kessies for 5 mil a pop?".
Now if I was trying to sell my kessie in station 1 and the other guy was trying to sell his in station 2 then the sale would have gone to him (wheee! n00b...) as the sale orders are in different stations.
The only positive thing I can see with the current system is the fact that I can s****** everytime I see a 100x markup on an item in a high volume station as the poor ******* that put the sale order upp still had to pay the sales tax but will never see the profit.
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Detrol
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.10.14 20:29:00 -
[34]
Edited by: Detrol on 14/10/2007 20:30:20
Originally by: Ooyama
Not quite right there mate,, did u ever check under details on a buy order?? then select the cheapest one, and where u wanna buy (etc.),, voila,, U suddenly decided where (and from whom) u bought the stuff...
Ooyama.
That's what he has been saying. If you go to market Details, you see a whole list of sell orders. There will depending on the product be sell orders in the same station but for a different price.
Suppose you say... mmm... lowest price is one of those annoying undercutters. I'm gonna annoy him and buy from the guy that has a price a bit higher so you rightclick on the second lowest price in that station and choose 'buy this'.
What really has happened is:
* you will pay the price you selected so not the lowest price
* the guy that sells it to you is however going to be the one that had the lowest price and not the guy who's order you selected. Plus, you just gave the undercutter a free bonus as you paid him more then he asked.
Don't believe me? Try it out:
* buy a product from a station
* put up a sell order for that product in the same station but just slightly higher then the one you just bought from (so your order isn't the lowest one)
* when done, open market and you choose your own order which is the second lowest and buy that one
* check name of the sellers on the first buy you made and on the second. It will be the same one and your '1 unit' sell order will still be up in the list.
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.10.14 20:34:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Kel'dar Drax
Am I missing something here...?
The lowest price always gets the sale?
Say I am in a station in Ikao and want to buy a kestrel for sale in Motsu...I click on the Motsu station line, click on buy and get the box that tells me to confirm purchase of 1 unit of Kestrel in Motsu for x price.
I then buy the kestrel and travel to Motsu to collect.
So how can someone with a cheaper kestrel for sale at a station 15 jumps away get the isk from that purchase...or am i missing the point?
The lowest price in the same station. 
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Detrol
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.10.14 20:34:00 -
[36]
Edited by: Detrol on 14/10/2007 20:34:45
The reason why CCP has implemented it this way is not clear to me but it sure isn't to avoid ISK selling. This system was already active before ISK selling became a problem.
Now if we would do the dreaded real-life example again. You go to a shop (station in eve), you go to where you can find a specific product and then see that the exact same product (including brand, volume, size, ...) is available there at different prices. You take the amount you need and go to the cash register but you say... "I didn't take the cheaper one. I took the one that's $3 higher then the others."
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