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Golmath Thorrk
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Posted - 2007.10.14 06:40:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Golmath Thorrk on 14/10/2007 06:47:26
Small ships are generally the most fun in Eve. Not only are they accessible to newer players in cost and skillpoints, they retain the new player base by keeping them interested. With the addition of these new electronic warfare frigates, I see no reason for logistics frigates and command destroyers.
The use of small-sized logistics modules in Eve is seriously lacking (who uses small remote armor repairers, shield transfers and capacitor transfers?). Moreover, right now once is stuck in having to bring a battlecruiser-class ship if one wants any gang link bonuses in a gang, no matter how small or fast moving.
I propose two new class of Tech 2 ships:
Logistics Frigates
Inherent bonuses: extremely small sig radius (~20 m ), +1 slot over the T1 variant, low dps output (no damage bonuses), AF/HAC resists, a tanking or evading bonus, and a role bonus to logistics like current logistics cruisers.
For example, the Amarr one could be manufactured by Khanid Inovation, use the inqusitor hull (there is already a Khanid hull ingame), and have the following bonuses:
4/2/4 slot layout
Amarr Frigate Skill Bonus: 150% bonus to Energy Transfer Array and Remote Armor Repair System range and 5% bonus to Armor Resistances per level
Frigate Logistics Skill Bonus: 15% reduction in Energy Transfer Array and Remote Armor Repair System capacitor use per level
Role Bonus: -85% power need for Remote Armor Repair Systems and -80% power need for Energy Transfer Arrays
Command Destroyers
Inherent bonuses: similar speed and sig radius as destroyers, a damage bonuse, AF/HAC resists, +2 slots over the T1 variant, a tanking bonus and the specialised role bonus that makes it possible to fit and use a warfare link on a destroyer-class vessel.
For example, here is a Viziam tech 2 Coercer
8/2/5 layout
Destroyer Skill Bonus: 10% bonus to Small Energy Turret tracking speed and -10% reduction in Small Energy Turret Capacitor usage per level
Command Destroyer Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to Small Energy Turret damage and 5% to Armored Resistances per level
Penalty: -25% rate of fire for all turrets
Bonus: 50% bonus to optimal range for small energy turrets, 99.5% reduction in Warfare Link module CPU need, 80% reduction in Warfare Link module powergrid need, and 50% reduction in Warfare Link capacitor use.
The other races would be similar along racial lines. The Amarr ones are given here
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Futher Bezluden
Minmatar
ORIGIN SYSTEMS
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2007.10.14 08:34:00 -
[2]
sounds sexy if done right.
THUKKER -Be Paranoid
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Mihailo Great
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.10.14 09:14:00 -
[3]
the idea of these new shiptypes is very good, but the figures overpowered.
singed
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Banzai OdiN
Caldari
Species 5618
R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.10.14 11:11:00 -
[4]
I like these ideas,
But one thing people don't realize is that when something becomes FOTM its gonna get nerfed 
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Golmath Thorrk
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Posted - 2007.10.14 17:21:00 -
[5]
I dont see how these would be overpowered
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Daelin Blackleaf
No Joy Corp
Phalanx Alliance
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Posted - 2007.10.14 17:30:00 -
[6]
Very nice ideas and great additions to roaming frigate gangs.
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Cailais
Amarr
VITOC
Fang Alliance
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Posted - 2007.10.14 17:43:00 -
[7]
No to the logistic frigate, the cruiser variant is fine I think and somehow the idea that a small ship could hope to assist a larger vessel feels a bit odd. Plus I think you'd end up with near indestructable frigate swarms all spider repping like mad.
The Command destroyer idea however is interesting, might be worht a look.
C.
- sig designer - eve mail |
Andreya
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Posted - 2007.10.14 18:21:00 -
[8]
I brought up command dessies a while ago.. but i suggested, that the dessies only apply their bonus's to other frigate/dessies shiptypes... i think THAT makes it a litle more tactical and cooler..
maybe adding tackling bonus's or something...
the frigate, i say no.. it just wont have the repping power to stop anything from killing the repped target
but yea, im a dictor pilot. gimme more dessy stuff, they need love :D
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Golmath Thorrk
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Posted - 2007.10.14 18:34:00 -
[9]
I'd like to add that there are currently capital class vessels that can run warfare links and play logistics (carriers and motherships), but there are no frigate/destroyer class veseels that can do this.
This seems like a really big hole to me in the progression of eve from small vessels to larger ones.
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Sharanta Karell
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Posted - 2007.10.15 01:16:00 -
[10]
 Originally by: Cailais
No to the logistic frigate, the cruiser variant is fine I think and somehow the idea that a small ship could hope to assist a larger vessel feels a bit odd. Plus I think you'd end up with near indestructable frigate swarms all spider repping like mad.
The Command destroyer idea however is interesting, might be worht a look.
C.
Keep the ranges short enough you got prime targets for a bomber squad. Whould be a fun battle to be in. 
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Tek'a Rain
Gallente
Isis Technologies
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Posted - 2007.10.15 03:52:00 -
[11]
would certainly like the Logistics class to get a new ship of frigate or dessie size. might allow more smallships work.
Same with mini-command frigates, as long as they did not fit the same links as their big brothers, and couldn't effect large fleets. think of them as ships designed to work on the Squad/Wing level.
as for the comments on wolfpacks full of spider-repping, well, thats a valid concern and throws a monkey wrench in the whole works. needs something clever there.
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Golmath Thorrk
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Posted - 2007.10.15 06:59:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Golmath Thorrk on 15/10/2007 07:00:36
Originally by: Tek'a Rain
as for the comments on wolfpacks full of spider-repping, well, thats a valid concern and throws a monkey wrench in the whole works. needs something clever there.
Not really. All frigates are extremely vulnerable to electronic warfare. Just jam or dampen the logistics frigates.
You could even use one of the black ops electronic warfare frigates to do it!
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Garr Anders
Minmatar
Eve University
Ivy League
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Posted - 2007.10.23 08:07:00 -
[13]
Doh messed up my bump from yesterday.
I totally think this would increase small fast moving gangs. Would love to see this ingame.
Garr Anders - Minmatar
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Horsefly
Infinitus Odium
The Church.
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Posted - 2007.10.23 10:59:00 -
[14]
I like this idea aswell. Make the Command Destroyer only fit one warfare link. That isnt overbalance anyway. There small and you can kill them off if you need to.
Also the Small logistics isnt anymore overpowered then the Cruiser Logistics. There module being used isnt that great for anything but cruisers on down. The spider repping shouldnt be a problem either as you ought to be able to out burst damage them anyway.
It would give us leadership/logistic's ship pilots something new to do.
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Hyakuchan
Earth Federation Space Force
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Posted - 2007.10.23 16:21:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Hyakuchan on 23/10/2007 16:26:38
What I would like to see is a new, T2 command frigate built using the models for the faction frigates. These would be able to mount a single combat link and would fall below assault ships in terms of damage and below interceptors for speed.
Destroyers, I think, need a T2 salvager version. Something with cargohold and salvage time bonuses.
As for a logistics frig... I think it could be done, but I think they should do it with the Tier 1 frig frames (Navitas, Bantam, etc), and each race should only get bonuses for one type of support. Gallente get armor, Caldari get shields, Amarr get cap, and Minmatar get hull.
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"Only the stupid rob the poor." |
Garr Anders
Minmatar
Eve University
Ivy League
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Posted - 2007.12.04 14:28:00 -
[16]
this seems to be of interested again so bump
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Garr Anders
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Mack Dorgeans
Camelot Innovations
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Posted - 2007.12.04 14:45:00 -
[17]
Destroyers are definitely an under-used size class. They need a second T2, either command or frigate-hunter, plus a tier 2 T1, but those probably won't happen until the art department recovers from Trinity.
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Stakhanov
The Good Fellas
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Posted - 2007.12.04 16:07:00 -
[18]
lulz
Frigate sized logistics modules have a shorter range and a much lower effectiveness than cruiser / BS sized. A cap bonus can make them run but that's about it.
I think the electronic attack ship class wasn't a good idea to begin with , frigates shouldn't be downscaled versions of T2 cruisers. Same goes for destroyers , warfare links on them make no sense.
Frigates would be good for electronic support however - projected ECCM , remote sensor boosters , tracking links. It could be a small bonus for a new T1 frigate type , or a huge one for T2.
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demonfurbie
Minmatar
Covert Nexus
Apoapsis Multiversal Consortium
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Posted - 2007.12.04 16:29:00 -
[19]
it would give me a reason to train dessy skill to 5 cause the only reason as dictor and now with the introduction of heavy dictors there is even less reason to train dessy 5
make 2 of each kind just completely scaled down from the command ships
give it the race bonus and let it run 1 link at a time
id fly them call them squad leaders that fits into the fleet perspective already
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Rahvin Damodred
The White Star Consortium
Tenth Legion
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Posted - 2007.12.04 17:52:00 -
[20]
I would make those ships in a slightly different way then the OP.
The small remote repping modules lack the strenght to keep other ships alive, so you'd have to make the T2 logistic frigates use medium sized modules, just like the logistic cruisers can use large modules.
But i wouldnt make them in just a watered down version of the logistic cruisers, the T1 cruisers like Exequror and Osprey etc already fill that role and new players can fly those within a few days already.
I think it would be far more interesting to make them as counters to the electronic attack frigates.
Instead of just nerfing and nerfing and nerfing the EW more and more because people whine about it being overpowered, why not make anti-EW booster ships ?
Like mentioned before in this thread, make a remote ECCM frigate that can shield its mates from being jammed or a Sensor link frigate that can help its mates overcome the effects of being dampend a little.
That would fill a new niche role that currently doesnt have any shipclass assigned to it yet, and would give a counter to EW and an alternative to the constant nerfing and more tactical options for fleet/gang makeups.
Use a Tech II version of the tier 1 frigates for this like the Navitas , Bantam, Burst and Tormentor.
Ofcourse the differences by race would be opposite to the favourite EW of their classic enemies, Gallente get the ECCM frigate to counter ECM's, Caldari get the Remote Sensor Boost frigate to counter Damps, Minmatar get the Tracking Link frigate to counter Tracking Disruptors and Amarr get ... well nobody plays Amarr anyway but something to counter Target Painters a remote module that reduces a gangmates sig radius.
As for the Destroyers ...
I would make a new tech I tier 2 destroyer first, that is essentially a watered down version of the Marauders.
4 Turret hardpoints , and a ship bonus to Salvaging and Tractor beams and also a bigger cargobay in its basic stats.
For the Tech II version, although the mini-command ship is a neat idea i would do it with a twist to it ... Reversed Command Ships.
The Interdictor will mostly become obsolete due to the Heavy Dictor class, a lot of people wil just train Destroyer 5 for the prequisite and hardly have any real use for the skill.
The T2 destroyer is traditionaly marked as a Area of Effect pvp ship only for use in 0.0
So make a new module group for the new T2 destroyer that does the opposite of what Warfare Links do. Same skillgroup just less requirements.
Instead of applying small bonusses to everyone in the gang , these Reverse Command Destroyer apply them as penalties instead to all non-gangmembers in a 20km radius around the ship.
Ofcourse they can only fit 1 of these Anti-Warfare Links modules, and there will be 3 versions for each module type.
Anti-Armored Links:
- Damage Allocation, reduces armor rep amount, 2% per level
- Passive offence, reduces armor resists, 2% per level
- Delayed repair, reduces armor rep speed, 2% per level
Anti-Information Links:
- Electronic Minority, reduces EW effectiveness, 2% per level
- Recon Subjugation, Reduces EW optimal and falloff range, 2% per level
- Sensor Instability, reduces sensor strenght, 2% per level
Anti-Siege Links:
- Active Unshielding, slows (remote) ShieldBoost speed, 2% per level
- Shield Inefficiency, increases cap need for shield boost, 2% per level
- Shield Discord, reduces shield resists, 2% per level.
Anti-Skirmish Links:
- Blockading Manouvers, increases sig radius, 2% per level
- Interdiction Stasis, lowers range of propulsion jammers, 2% per level
- Delayed Deployement, lowers the speed of AB/MWD, 2% per level.
As with the Interdictor , these Anti-Command modules can only be used in 0.0 space.
This will give the Tech II destroyer class a very intriguing shiptype with a wide variety of tactical options, and keeps it in line of being Area of Effect 'Nasty' .
my 2 cents.
"Pia Fidelis - Faithfull and Loyal" |
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