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Guillaume Adoulin
Southern Cross Empire
Flying Dangerous
3
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Posted - 2012.01.24 12:18:00 -
[1] - Quote
Was looking over the patch notes, and it looks like the new AF's are gonna outclass faction frigates by quite a bit. . Oh well WTB Wolf |
Gorki Andropov
Kerensky Initiatives
213
|
Posted - 2012.01.24 12:25:00 -
[2] - Quote
Thank goodness that Dramiels are finally going to put in their place |
Buzzmong
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
112
|
Posted - 2012.01.24 12:28:00 -
[3] - Quote
So, back to the T1-> Faction -> T2 progression again for Friggies?
Awesome  |
Zarnak Wulf
CTRL-Q
219
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Posted - 2012.01.24 12:28:00 -
[4] - Quote
You probably should not bring up the Dramiel if you want sympathy.  |
Onictus
Silver Snake Enterprise
Against ALL Authorities
89
|
Posted - 2012.01.24 12:32:00 -
[5] - Quote
Gorki Andropov wrote:Thank goodness that Dramiels are finally going to put in their place
Only if they get caught.
They are still interceptor agile, and fast as ****. |
Tanya Powers
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
786
|
Posted - 2012.01.24 12:35:00 -
[6] - Quote
Guillaume Adoulin wrote:Was looking over the patch notes, and it looks like the new AF's are gonna outclass faction frigates by quite a bit. . Oh well WTB Wolf
I wouldn't cry about rain before I see it, but I for once, I'm going to start using frigates for pvp. |
Kneebone
K-H Light Industries
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.26 17:49:00 -
[7] - Quote
Seems to me the pirate frigs will be the go between for Ceptors and AF's instead of replacing either one. They have some of the strengths of both. Dram still does good DPS and is still fast in the handles of a capable pilot. |
Diomidis
Pod Liberation Authority
HYDRA RELOADED
38
|
Posted - 2012.01.27 00:22:00 -
[8] - Quote
Dramiels got a small nerf, blasters got a big buff, so indirectly, probably the second most popular solo-roam frig hunter - the taranis - could already go after and probably kill MSE Dramiels that had no web, something that only a DD could claim pre-patch.
The new ASs are simply a class of their own in Frig PVP. Did not fly one other than a MSB Harpy I already had for a test run vs. a friend's Vengeance yesterday, but it seems that very few frigs other than other ASs can come even close to beat these ships - unless we are talking bad (i mean unsuccessful-brilliant-experimental) fits and/or different class of pilots together.
What would kill a Dramiel (and any other frig) before, is still exceptionally viable against ASs...bad news is, that these "Solutions" are not open for most frigs, as we would need a combination of at least two of: drones / med+ neuts / web / good tracking / proper dmg type to start chewing through them.
Good news is, that prices for the popular faction frigates will go down, and it's not like those will be useless now.
ASs were extremely underused, so Dramiels weren't looking for those to get kills anyways...
There still be other T1, faction and light T2 frigs out there for you to fight...
"War does not determine who is right - only who is left."
-- Bertrand Russell |
Hrett
Quantum Cats Syndicate
37
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Posted - 2012.01.27 02:13:00 -
[9] - Quote
Faction frigs will still get a lot of use in FW plexes.
And I wouldnt be sad if the Dram was never used again. So tired of seeing it everywhere. Variety is a good thing. |
Ireland VonVicious
Gurista Saints
Assassin Confederacy
16
|
Posted - 2012.01.27 03:46:00 -
[10] - Quote
Cross faction should stay ahead of T2 just like all other class ships. That is my 2 cents.
Still love the worm. |
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Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings
115
|
Posted - 2012.01.27 03:54:00 -
[11] - Quote
Faction/pirate frigates have always been intended as a cross between interceptors and AFs.
You'll notice that, relative to most pirate frigs, AFs are giant bricks. |
Almah Jesper
Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.27 04:05:00 -
[12] - Quote
Change is good.
Honestly, i'd be thrilled to never see another dram, drake, hurricane, cynabal, rifter, etc. ever again.
If AFs really are to become the great scourge people predict, i'll just spend more time flying the cruisers that eat them alive. Caracal stealth buff? |
Dorian Tormak
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
48
|
Posted - 2012.01.27 04:09:00 -
[13] - Quote
Almah Jesper wrote:Change is good.
Honestly, i'd be thrilled to never see another dram, drake, hurricane, cynabal, rifter, etc. ever again.
If AFs really are to become the great scourge people predict, i'll just spend more time flying the cruisers that eat them alive. Caracal stealth buff?
A Caracal will honestly be crushed by an assault ship now, they had the dps / tank to beat those before the buff. Now... 
Ruptures on the other hand...
> Security Status: -9.93
> Threat Level: Mediocre
Welcome to Eve, where asking a legitimate question recieves trollish comments like "trololol" or "m8". But our community is still better than WoW. Go back 2 WoW noob. |
Ahrieman
Heretic Army
Heretic Nation
14
|
Posted - 2012.01.27 04:34:00 -
[14] - Quote
Dorian Tormak wrote:Almah Jesper wrote:Change is good.
Honestly, i'd be thrilled to never see another dram, drake, hurricane, cynabal, rifter, etc. ever again.
If AFs really are to become the great scourge people predict, i'll just spend more time flying the cruisers that eat them alive. Caracal stealth buff? A Caracal will honestly be crushed by an assault ship now, they had the dps / tank to beat those before the buff. Now... Ruptures on the other hand...
TBH, if you are flying one of the more OP AF's, cruisers pretty much don't stand a chance unless they are set up specifically to kill you. And even then...
AF's can still be beat by faction frigs, it's just really tough.
http://kb.heretic-army.biz/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=3362
I scam on my main |
Skelee VI
Wraithguard.
2
|
Posted - 2012.01.27 17:43:00 -
[15] - Quote
The solo dram may disappear but I think in small gangs they are still viable option. I use an insta lock one, quite nice for gatecamps etc.
A well fit cruiser can still take out most AF's, just takes a bit longer which usally brings his friends into play.
I am surprised I haven't seen any AF gangs n 0.0. Old habits i guess. |
ROXGenghis
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
12
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Posted - 2012.01.27 20:42:00 -
[16] - Quote
Here's a good analysis of the new AF's:
bloggy |
Liang Nuren
Heretic Army
Heretic Nation
704
|
Posted - 2012.01.27 20:46:00 -
[17] - Quote
Dorian Tormak wrote:Almah Jesper wrote:Change is good.
Honestly, i'd be thrilled to never see another dram, drake, hurricane, cynabal, rifter, etc. ever again.
If AFs really are to become the great scourge people predict, i'll just spend more time flying the cruisers that eat them alive. Caracal stealth buff? A Caracal will honestly be crushed by an assault ship now, they had the dps / tank to beat those before the buff. Now... Ruptures on the other hand...
I wouldn't hesitate to engage a Rupture.
-Liang
Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?)
Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com
Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
|
Darthewok
Perkone
Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2012.01.27 21:09:00 -
[18] - Quote
I think AFs may outclass Empire Faction Frigates (Comet, Firetail, Hookbill, Slicer) by a bit, but Pirate Faction Frigates (Dramiel, Daredevil, Cruor, Worm, Succubus) are still better or competitive.
Compare Comet to Ishkur, Firetail to Jaguar, Hookbill to Hawk and Slicer to Retribution.
They look like almost the same ships save for 1-2 more slots, less drones, more CPU and PG on the AF, faster speed on the faction frigs, and minor differences in ship bonuses.
This is fine because they can play the role of cheaper but faster versions of AFs, between interceptor and AF speed.
They also require lower SP than AFs so they can be the natural transition for new players from T1 frigates.
Unlike the Empire Faction frigs, the pirate frigates have no direct comparisons with AFs and so maintain their niche roles.
For example, Dramiel is Dramiel, Cruor is Cruor, there is no equivalent among AFs. |
Liang Nuren
Heretic Army
Heretic Nation
706
|
Posted - 2012.01.27 21:16:00 -
[19] - Quote
I don't agree.. AFs totally eclipse the Dram, Worm, and Succubus. The Daredevil and Cruor both have 90% webs and thus still retain some niche utility. Empire faction frigs are utterly outclassed by AFs.
-Liang
Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?)
Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com
Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
|
Zyress
Deaths Head Brigade
Gryphon League
25
|
Posted - 2012.01.27 21:17:00 -
[20] - Quote
Onictus wrote:Gorki Andropov wrote:Thank goodness that Dramiels are finally going to put in their place Only if they get caught. They are still interceptor agile, and fast as ****.
No they're faster than any interceptor and thats a role breaker |
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Darthewok
Perkone
Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2012.01.27 22:00:00 -
[21] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:I don't agree.. AFs totally eclipse the Dram, Worm, and Succubus. The Daredevil and Cruor both have 90% webs and thus still retain some niche utility. Empire faction frigs are utterly outclassed by AFs.
-Liang
Looked at Worm and Succubus. Not too inspiring it is true. Not that I want any buff to them for fear of another Pirate Frigate mess like the whole Dramiel OP phase casting a dark cloud over frigate PVP for so long.
The Dramiel still has uniqueness. Fastest Frigate with AF-like damage.
Perhaps the role of Pirate Faction Frigates should be "Not necessarily more powerful than AFs, but offering unique niche utilities". Let them remain the side-show and please never let them become the main show and replace T2 again.
And it is very bad for the market and inflation when Pirate Faction Frigates get too popular and become the de facto standard like the Dram did. This is because they are obtained through missions and not invention like T2. Therefore supply cannot catch up with demand, causing massive inflation and crushing frigate PVP with costliness.
The role of Empire Faction Frigates seems to be "cheap mid-ground between T1 and T2". That seems like a perfectly good niche. I expect them to fall in price.
|
Liang Nuren
Heretic Army
Heretic Nation
706
|
Posted - 2012.01.27 22:03:00 -
[22] - Quote
Darthewok wrote:Liang Nuren wrote:I don't agree.. AFs totally eclipse the Dram, Worm, and Succubus. The Daredevil and Cruor both have 90% webs and thus still retain some niche utility. Empire faction frigs are utterly outclassed by AFs.
-Liang Looked at Worm and Succubus. Not too inspiring it is true. Not that I want any buff to them for fear of another Pirate Frigate mess like the whole Dramiel OP phase casting a dark cloud over frigate PVP for so long. The Dramiel still has uniqueness. Fastest Frigate with AF-like damage. Perhaps the role of Pirate Faction Frigates should be "Not necessarily more powerful than AFs, but offering unique niche utilities". Let them remain the side-show and please never let them become the main show and replace T2 again. And it is very bad for the market and inflation when Pirate Faction Frigates get too popular and become the de facto standard like the Dram did. This is because they are obtained through missions and not invention like T2. Therefore supply cannot catch up with demand, causing massive inflation and crushing frigate PVP with costliness. The role of Empire Faction Frigates seems to be "cheap mid-ground between T1 and T2". That seems like a perfectly good niche. I expect them to fall in price.
God forbid that NPC 0.0 space has something in demand to export to high sec. 
-Liang
Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?)
Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com
Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
PVP Videos:-áhttp://vimeo.com/user9887127 |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
161
|
Posted - 2012.01.27 22:03:00 -
[23] - Quote
Diomidis wrote:Dramiels got a small nerf, blasters got a big buff, so indirectly, probably the second most popular solo-roam frig hunter - the taranis - could already go after and probably kill MSE Dramiels that had no web, something that only a DD could claim pre-patch.
The new ASs are simply a class of their own in Frig PVP. Did not fly one other than a MSB Harpy I already had for a test run vs. a friend's Vengeance yesterday, but it seems that very few frigs other than other ASs can come even close to beat these ships - unless we are talking bad (i mean unsuccessful-brilliant-experimental) fits and/or different class of pilots together.
What would kill a Dramiel (and any other frig) before, is still exceptionally viable against ASs...bad news is, that these "Solutions" are not open for most frigs, as we would need a combination of at least two of: drones / med+ neuts / web / good tracking / proper dmg type to start chewing through them.
Good news is, that prices for the popular faction frigates will go down, and it's not like those will be useless now.
ASs were extremely underused, so Dramiels weren't looking for those to get kills anyways...
There still be other T1, faction and light T2 frigs out there for you to fight...
Dram's were good before Cruiciable... but they still had many weaknesses. Pre-cruicbile dram's often fell to prey to the kestrel, the helios, the taranis, and many other 'lesser' ships.
The new assault ships are quite potent... but like dram pilots of old, the new FOTM pilots will still leave many weaknesses to exploit!! I look forward to the challenge... especially when I gank my first retribution... with a helios!
|
Liang Nuren
Heretic Army
Heretic Nation
706
|
Posted - 2012.01.27 22:08:00 -
[24] - Quote
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
Dram's were good before Cruiciable... but they still had many weaknesses. Pre-cruicbile dram's often fell to prey to the kestrel, the helios, the taranis, and many other 'lesser' ships.
The new assault ships are quite potent... but like dram pilots of old, the new FOTM pilots will still leave many weaknesses to exploit!! I look forward to the challenge... especially when I gank my first retribution... with a helios!
I hear there are a lot of FOTM AF pilots on late night in Amamake. :)
-Liang
Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?)
Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com
Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
PVP Videos:-áhttp://vimeo.com/user9887127 |
Korg Tronix
Heretic Army
Heretic Nation
40
|
Posted - 2012.01.28 16:03:00 -
[25] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:I don't agree.. AFs totally eclipse the Dram, Worm, and Succubus. The Daredevil and Cruor both have 90% webs and thus still retain some niche utility. Empire faction frigs are utterly outclassed by AFs.
-Liang
Worms can still have a niche against the new AFs as they have the utility and tank to do so, DD and Cruor likewise. The other two just wont cut it against AFs inside scram range anymore.
All the navy frigs, minus the Slicer, are completely surpassed by AFs in most situations except maybe trying to kill tackle on gangs as they are faster, still have a decent tank and generally good damage so they can run easier if need be.
Evil: If I were creating the world I wouldn't mess about with butterflies and daffodils. I would have started with lasers, eight o'clock, Day One!
[zaps one of his minions accidentally, minion screams]
http://themabinogion.blogspot.com/ |
Dorian Tormak
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
48
|
Posted - 2012.01.28 17:00:00 -
[26] - Quote
I hear DDs are pretty tanky with their IFFAs and SARs.
> Security Status: -9.93
> Threat Level: Mediocre
Welcome to Eve, where asking a legitimate question recieves trollish comments like "trololol" or "m8". But our community is still better than WoW. Go back 2 WoW noob. |
Korg Tronix
Heretic Army
Heretic Nation
40
|
Posted - 2012.01.28 17:33:00 -
[27] - Quote
Dorian Tormak wrote:I hear DDs are pretty tanky with their IFFAs and SARs.
Dont be obtuse, you know what I meant. DDs have the 90% web which means they have something the AFs cant necessarily combat, similar to the Worms ability to drop 5 ECM drones or dictate range on some of the AFs without losing out on DPS.
Is it fool proof, no but AFs aren't guaranteed a win against those unlike when they fight pretty much everything else. Its more that they have just obsoleted p. much every other frigate, why bring the pirate frigs which can win against most frigs when you can bring one that is just as, if not more effective that cost 1/3 of the price.
Evil: If I were creating the world I wouldn't mess about with butterflies and daffodils. I would have started with lasers, eight o'clock, Day One!
[zaps one of his minions accidentally, minion screams]
http://themabinogion.blogspot.com/ |
Ahrieman
Heretic Army
Heretic Nation
18
|
Posted - 2012.01.28 20:25:00 -
[28] - Quote
Here is my list of frigs that can compete with a well setup AF (not including niche or lol fits):
Daredevil
Slicer - provided that you can break the AF's tank
END OF LIST
I scam on my main |
Kn1v3s 999
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
24
|
Posted - 2012.01.29 00:07:00 -
[29] - Quote
problem about Faction is they cost too much for what they can offer compared to an AF, that makes it obsolete.
Enyo can have same dps of a DD, x2 the tank, full tackle and cost around 20M
only thing that DD can have more is speed/agility and the 90%web, great stuff, but worth 60M more only for the hull? dunno, for me not anymore tbh |
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