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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Veluxor
Tenacious Danes
Ka-Tet
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Posted - 2007.10.15 12:45:00 -
[1]
I finally got a chance to try out my new Rorqual in a real mining op. The group consisted of 8 miners in Hulks and Skiffs and the Rorqual. I like the bonus' and role of the Rorqual, even the slot layout is decent. However a few issues surface when trying to manage compression of ore.
Batch size:
Crokite and Mercoxit both have a batch size for compression of 20k m3, which means that a rorqual without atleast one expander can't start the job. It is preferable to have some fuel for the industrial module and jumpfuel in your cargohold as well.
The huge batch size for all ore creates another issue when mining many different types of ore. Even when you are only going for high ore and Mercoxit it is 12 different compressions you have to do. This potentially leaves you with leftover ore up to a batch size -1 ore. With several different ore types leftover, the rorqual is uncapable of handling the move to a new belt or to the station. I would suggest cutting the batch size with a factor of 10, or at least to the number required for refining.
Installing compression job:
I think using the current factory interface for compression jobs is just lazy. A lot of time is wasted navigating the different windows and choosing factory slot, for something where you actually don't have any options you need to choose. You also have to deliver jobs before you can install new ones, which means the slots can't be used 100% of the time, and sometimes when trying to use the second slot, the first will show available, but you are unable to choose it. Preferably it would work automatically, only requiring only a right click and choose compress on a batch of ore, and some time later a compressed ore would appear in the cargohold.
Capital Tractor Beam:
The speed and range of these things are awesome, but when the Can gets close to the rorqual the speed drops sometimes. It seems like it is being bounced by the rorqual itself before it is even within open range.
Conclusion:
It's a great ship, but trying to keep up with compression from a large gang will be quite stressful, and jetcans will be hovering all around you.
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Gaogan
Gallente
Solar Storm
Sev3rance
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Posted - 2007.10.16 03:33:00 -
[2]
I agree; it should not use the factory interface. It should instead use high slot modules that load the ore like ammo and fire compressed billets back into the cargo hold.
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Blazing Fire
Interstellar Operations Incorporated
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Posted - 2007.10.16 08:09:00 -
[3]
The Compression Blueprints should be added as ammo, then you just start the cycle.
/signed
Blazing Fire
CEO
Interstellar Operations Incorporated
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SUNscatcher
Caldari
Pacificsun
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Posted - 2007.10.17 02:52:00 -
[4]
I have to disagree with the OP. Its a disappointment for a ship that is three years over due. Yes if this ship had shown up three years ago it would have been nice. Now all it does in compress ore which is unnecessary with the introduction of jump bridges. No longer is moving large quantities of stuff difficult or time consuming. What the rorqual is today is a one dimensional ship the is a big fat target sitting in the belts. Easier to kill than a carrier and twice the price. Enjoy suckers. |
prathe
Minmatar
Omega Enterprises
Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2007.10.17 05:12:00 -
[5]
have to agree after trials of the rorqual were complete i personnaly saw it as a big let down
the only use i see for this ship is straight sitting in a pos hugging a corp hangar and compressing other wise i wouldn't take it in a belt or anything like that
now honestly what this ship should be is a ore miner and compressor ! then it makes sense 1 capital strip miner a cycle that lasts as long as a indutry mode cycle and then you can run haulers to and from while the rest scout to protect it and warn the op if hostiles approach .
now that would be an interesting and cool feature . ccp this ship is too good to just sit in a pos compressing ore . as it stands it's just a manned minning pos structure with  bonuses
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James Duar
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.10.17 11:33:00 -
[6]
The super-trit miner concept should probably be mentioned again what with CCP being all "no compression!"
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PauZotoh Zhaan
Teylas Inc.
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Posted - 2007.10.17 13:21:00 -
[7]
I used rorq few times and I have to agree with you.
Plus rorq should compress much better, 50-100% boost in compression would make this ship proper mining capital ship.
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CCP Chronotis
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Posted - 2007.10.17 13:42:00 -
[8]
I wholeheartedly agree with the use of the S&I interface and the job times involved making it 'click hell'. I was sat with Flatboy, the S&I programmer a few days ago and we came up with a nice option which should automate the compression process but it will not be for kali 3, but some patch after it. It would entail changing the whole compression mechanics but will be worth it. Similar to how ice compression is being boosted in kali 3 (10 normal units -> 1 compressed unit), whenever the proposed solution is applied, we will have to either convert the current compressed ore back to normal ore before the server is opened after the patch or grandfather those types and use new ones as the relationship would then be one to one (one unit of veldspar would be equivalent to one unit of compressed veldspar just with a different volume) which also removes the batch requirement for blueprints.
The great thing is, the work to allow S&I assembly lines on ships paves the way for many future ship possibilities on many more 'sane' job times that involve less installing and delivery.
For kali 3 at least, the cargo capacity and number of assembly lines is being boosted so you can install and manage more inventory with less clicking and will give you room to switch around inputs and outputs in the one cargo bay.
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Two step
Amarr
Chosen Path
Warp to Desktop
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Posted - 2007.10.17 15:02:00 -
[9]
 Originally by: CCP Chronotis
I wholeheartedly agree with the use of the S&I interface and the job times involved making it 'click hell'. I was sat with Flatboy, the S&I programmer a few days ago and we came up with a nice option which should automate the compression process but it will not be for kali 3, but some patch after it. It would entail changing the whole compression mechanics but will be worth it. Similar to how ice compression is being boosted in kali 3 (10 normal units -> 1 compressed unit), whenever the proposed solution is applied, we will have to either convert the current compressed ore back to normal ore before the server is opened after the patch or grandfather those types and use new ones as the relationship would then be one to one (one unit of veldspar would be equivalent to one unit of compressed veldspar just with a different volume) which also removes the batch requirement for blueprints.
The great thing is, the work to allow S&I assembly lines on ships paves the way for many future ship possibilities on many more 'sane' job times that involve less installing and delivery.
For kali 3 at least, the cargo capacity and number of assembly lines is being boosted so you can install and manage more inventory with less clicking and will give you room to switch around inputs and outputs in the one cargo bay.
How about while you are looking at fixes for the S&I interface, you consider the following, which would both speed up rorqual use as well as other S&I:
When I right click a blueprint and choose Manufacture/invention/whatever, default the job location to the location of the blueprint, selecting the first available slot. Perhaps if there are no slots available, it could not choose anything. This would speed up all sorts of jobs, from invention to normal station manufacturing.
I know my wrists would think you... :-)
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CCP Chronotis
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Posted - 2007.10.17 15:10:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Two step
How about while you are looking at fixes for the S&I interface, you consider the following, which would both speed up rorqual use as well as other S&I:
When I right click a blueprint and choose Manufacture/invention/whatever, default the job location to the location of the blueprint, selecting the first available slot. Perhaps if there are no slots available, it could not choose anything. This would speed up all sorts of jobs, from invention to normal station manufacturing.
I know my wrists would think you... :-)
i forgot to mention that, it is indeed queued for inclusion in some future patch :) Buy much beer for Flatboy and Code monkey at fanfest!
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Vala Draaken
Madhatters Inc.
M. PIRE
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Posted - 2007.10.17 15:29:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Two step
How about while you are looking at fixes for the S&I interface, you consider the following, which would both speed up rorqual use as well as other S&I:
When I right click a blueprint and choose Manufacture/invention/whatever, default the job location to the location of the blueprint, selecting the first available slot. Perhaps if there are no slots available, it could not choose anything. This would speed up all sorts of jobs, from invention to normal station manufacturing.
I know my wrists would think you... :-)
Combine this with multiselect of identical BPs and you'd have: awesomeness.
--------
Qustions answered about Trinity, DX9 SM3, Performance, DX10, Vista, Classic
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Tonto Auri
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Posted - 2007.10.17 17:27:00 -
[12]
We already have modules that uses ammo directly from cargo.
Siege/Triage for example.
Why not make industrial core working in the same way?
I.e. shceme wimm be as follows:
Fit as many industrial cores as needed.
Load appropriate compression blueprint original or COPY! into each core.
Fill cargo with required minerals and strontium.
Power on cores. Core cycle will be determined by pilot manufacturing skills and blueprint production level.
Some requirements:
Blueprints wastage should be 0%, no point to waste ore in compression I think.
Reason to use copy - is to encourage players to use their labs (Rorq BPO's shouldn't be researchable in NPC stations)
Probably need to slightly decrease Rorqual cargo in favor of corp hangar space to encourage less AFK'ing.
--
Thanks CCP for cu<end of sig> |
Katana Seiko
Made in Germany
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Posted - 2007.10.17 22:38:00 -
[13]
Have you seen how long one copy will take? imagine this: you on your dying bed at age 95: "son, there is one thing you need to do. the 3-run copy of the veldspar compressing job ends in 1 year and 22 days. please sell it for a good price!"
A clone where you could transfer your conciousness to wiuld come in handy then, huh?
Well, a high slot module would work way better than the S&I interface thing, I agree. This way you can go with up to four lines. And change the ammount of ore needed for compression!
And while you're add it - can't you make the capital tractor beam scoop the container?
--
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Arushia
Nova Labs
Empire Research
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Posted - 2007.10.17 23:19:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Tonto Auri
Load appropriate compression blueprint original or COPY! into each core.
...
Reason to use copy - is to encourage players to use their labs (Rorq BPO's shouldn't be researchable in NPC stations)
The BPOs are incredibly cheap. There is no reason to use copies.
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Tonto Auri
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Posted - 2007.10.17 23:52:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Arushia
The BPOs are incredibly cheap. There is no reason to use copies.
There's no reason TODAY, You mean?
--
Thanks CCP for cu<end of sig> |
Tonto Auri
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Posted - 2007.10.18 00:06:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Katana Seiko
Have you seen how long one copy will take? imagine this: you on your dying bed at age 95: "son, there is one thing you need to do. the 3-run copy of the veldspar compressing job ends in 1 year and 22 days. please sell it for a good price!"
It looks that You have only half of normal brain.
Why You think that copying time cannot be changed?
Quote:
Well, a high slot module would work way better than the S&I interface thing, I agree. This way you can go with up to four lines. And change the ammount of ore needed for compression!
Why even highslot? There many options to do this change.
Quote:
And while you're add it - can't you make the capital tractor beam scoop the container?
One possible way:
Allow usage of Triage module (I mean - Rorqual IS A carrier... actually) with role bonus to Stront consumption.
Make Industrial Cores midslot modules.
Add 8th midslot to Rorq.
Voila, Rorqual in Triage mode can sacrifice some midslots for cores and still maintain good tank.
--
Thanks CCP for cu<end of sig> |
James Duar
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.10.18 00:41:00 -
[17]
I'm curious why making the Rorqual more annoying to use by trying to force it to use BPO copies is a good thing?
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Tonto Auri
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Posted - 2007.10.19 11:05:00 -
[18]
Originally by: James Duar
I'm curious why making the Rorqual more annoying to use by trying to force it to use BPO copies is a good thing?
Where You saw that forcing? Just ability.
--
Thanks CCP for cu<end of sig> |
Ezra
Gallente
Calista Industries
Brutally Clever Empire
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Posted - 2007.10.19 23:13:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Tonto Auri
Originally by: James Duar
I'm curious why making the Rorqual more annoying to use by trying to force it to use BPO copies is a good thing?
Where You saw that forcing? Just ability.
Given how cheap the BPOs are, what is the point?
Please justify why CCP should spend programmer time to do such a thing.
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Ezra Cornell
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Tonto Auri
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Posted - 2007.10.21 20:06:00 -
[20]
Post from single character please.
And read thread before posting.
I donot want to repeat answers again and again.
--
Thanks CCP for cu<end of sig> |
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