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Precision missiles must go boom faster

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RC Denton	Posted - 2007.10.18 21:07:00 - [1] Edited by: RC Denton on 18/10/2007 21:15:01 Right now the explosion velocity of a precision cruise is 1km/s vs a really really slow interceptor going 3km/s the inty gets an 85% dmg reduction. Since many nano speed fiends are going in the range of 5-7km/s these days precision missiles (when they hit since the missile itself only goes 3.75km/s) only do about 5 pts of dmg. Instead the explosion velocity and speed on these missiles should be around 10km/s thus allowing them to actually catch and do dmg to speed freaks. The base dmg can be nerfed a bit to compensate for the speed increases but precision missiles ( and there should be a corresponding ammo type for other weapons) should be the counter to nano-fiending. For reference: Ligh high prec 3km/sec explosion Heavy high prec 1km/sec explosion cruise high prec 1km/sec explosion
Deva Blackfire D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.10.18 21:09:00 - [2] Surprise. Large guns cant even hit "slow inty going 3km/s" at all.
RC Denton	Posted - 2007.10.18 21:10:00 - [3] Originally by: Deva Blackfire Surprise. Large guns cant even hit "slow inty going 3km/s" at all. Using cruise as an example, but there should also be a t2 ammo type for large guns that gets them in the game vs smaller targets.
Dei Amarr Khanid Aerospace Group Khanid Provincial Authority	Posted - 2007.10.18 21:15:00 - [4] Originally by: RC Denton Originally by: Deva Blackfire Surprise. Large guns cant even hit "slow inty going 3km/s" at all. Using cruise as an example, but there should also be a t2 ammo type for large guns that gets them in the game vs smaller targets. In my opinion there should be more of a gap between large and small weapons so that it's nigh impossible to hit an inty in a battleship. Personally I want to see people that are actually needed in the smaller ships and not see fleets that consist of 90% Battleships, and we're slowing seeing that with role bonuses. I really don't want to see battleships able to swap ammo for the frigate size ships when they want and then switch back to fight the battleships. --- The true master paralyses his opponent, leaving him vulnerable to attack
Roidpwning101	Posted - 2007.10.18 21:51:00 - [5] Did you ever think that maybe you arent supposed to hit ceptors with cruise missles? That maaaaybe 'precision' for a battleship might be cruiser sized?
Gecko O'Bac Aquilae Stellaris YouWhat	Posted - 2007.10.18 21:52:00 - [6] Originally by: Dei In my opinion there should be more of a gap between large and small weapons so that it's nigh impossible to hit an inty in a battleship. Personally I want to see people that are actually needed in the smaller ships and not see fleets that consist of 90% Battleships, and we're slowing seeing that with role bonuses. I really don't want to see battleships able to swap ammo for the frigate size ships when they want and then switch back to fight the battleships. I agree with you. Give some needed love on those AF, let them kill the ceptors like they were meant to be.
RC Denton	Posted - 2007.10.18 22:09:00 - [7] Originally by: Roidpwning101 Did you ever think that maybe you arent supposed to hit ceptors with cruise missles? That maaaaybe 'precision' for a battleship might be cruiser sized? Once again let us review: Cruise explosion velocity 1km/s Heavy explosion velocity 1km/s Light explostion velocity 3km/s So even light "precision" missiles would be doing greatly reduced damage to fast ships going 5-7km/s. Heavy and cruise would do exactly the same assuming the same explosion radius. Note I'm not advocating changing the explosion radius which is where you'd differentiate heavies from cruise, only velocity so a precision missile actually has a chance of doing what it's supposed to do I.E. kill smaller fast moving ships.
Lord Dynastron Mystical Knights Legionnaire Services Ltd.	Posted - 2007.10.18 23:36:00 - [8] Originally by: Dei Originally by: RC Denton Originally by: Deva Blackfire Surprise. Large guns cant even hit "slow inty going 3km/s" at all. Using cruise as an example, but there should also be a t2 ammo type for large guns that gets them in the game vs smaller targets. In my opinion there should be more of a gap between large and small weapons so that it's nigh impossible to hit an inty in a battleship. Personally I want to see people that are actually needed in the smaller ships and not see fleets that consist of 90% Battleships, and we're slowing seeing that with role bonuses. I really don't want to see battleships able to swap ammo for the frigate size ships when they want and then switch back to fight the battleships. I would be ok with this,, so long as Frigates are no longer able to affect BS's to the extent they do. Mainly scramming. You should be able to fight anything that scrams you. Cue the 'teamwork' rant... or maybe the drone rant.
Emperor D'Hoffryn No Quarter. Vae Victis.	Posted - 2007.10.18 23:36:00 - [9] Originally by: RC Denton Originally by: Roidpwning101 Did you ever think that maybe you arent supposed to hit ceptors with cruise missles? That maaaaybe 'precision' for a battleship might be cruiser sized? Once again let us review: Cruise explosion velocity 1km/s Heavy explosion velocity 1km/s Light explostion velocity 3km/s So even light "precision" missiles would be doing greatly reduced damage to fast ships going 5-7km/s. Heavy and cruise would do exactly the same assuming the same explosion radius. Note I'm not advocating changing the explosion radius which is where you'd differentiate heavies from cruise, only velocity so a precision missile actually has a chance of doing what it's supposed to do I.E. kill smaller fast moving ships. precision lights do ok against your average interceptor. the pimped ones you wont hit...but guess what, nothing else will. I fail to see how making missles work better here then turrets really fixes anything. precision missles already do things no turret of the similar size has a hope of doing in the same situation. Originally by: Snuggly It's just so great to have an actual reason to not die, incentive is fantastic!
Reem Fairchild Minmatar Republic University	Posted - 2007.10.19 01:12:00 - [10] Missiles (even regular tech 1 missiles) are already much, much more difficult to speed tank against than turrets.
Transcendant One	Posted - 2007.10.19 01:18:00 - [11] Not with an AB xD.
Gecko O'Bac Aquilae Stellaris YouWhat	Posted - 2007.10.19 11:35:00 - [12] Originally by: Reem Fairchild Missiles (even regular tech 1 missiles) are already much, much more difficult to speed tank against than turrets. I have to disagree about this. It isn't this much a "black or white" situation, there are lots of shades of grey. IE: Average speed crow: light missiles will probably hit some times, although with minimal damage. Short range turrets with the highest tracking possible will have a hard time hitting it at all. Long range turrets (from range, of course) will probably hit it no problem. Uber pimped crow: it outruns missiles. You simply can't it it, not even for chance. Short range turrets will suffer the same problem, although maybe they can land a hit or two for ridicolously low dmg. Long range turrets (from range) will still hit the crow unless it's using his sfull speed as transversal. Really, it's a matter of situations. And that is good since nobody wants a uber solo pwnmachine good at everything. Notice that I didn't differentiate missiles in short range/long range because it doesn't really matter. A fast crow, even not pimped, can outrun most missiles, even light missiles on a caracal/cerberus. So the problem doesn't even start to interest range, explosion radius, explosion velocity.
Faye Valerii Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2007.10.19 12:21:00 - [13] Originally by: Emperor D'Hoffryn Originally by: RC Denton Originally by: Roidpwning101 Did you ever think that maybe you arent supposed to hit ceptors with cruise missles? That maaaaybe 'precision' for a battleship might be cruiser sized? Once again let us review: Cruise explosion velocity 1km/s Heavy explosion velocity 1km/s Light explostion velocity 3km/s So even light "precision" missiles would be doing greatly reduced damage to fast ships going 5-7km/s. Heavy and cruise would do exactly the same assuming the same explosion radius. Note I'm not advocating changing the explosion radius which is where you'd differentiate heavies from cruise, only velocity so a precision missile actually has a chance of doing what it's supposed to do I.E. kill smaller fast moving ships. precision lights do ok against your average interceptor. the pimped ones you wont hit...but guess what, nothing else will. I fail to see how making missles work better here then turrets really fixes anything. precision missles already do things no turret of the similar size has a hope of doing in the same situation. Not so sure about that ... My non-pimped Crow combined with my semi-crappy skills can still go 5km/s indefinitely.
Mister Xerox	Posted - 2007.10.19 12:36:00 - [14] I agree with the op... speed fiends need further curtailing. Battlenanos were nerfed massively so that even with snakes & nanos a fast BS can still be thumped by cruise, medium drones, and faster ships not requiring a bil worth of gear. Nano-BCs can be hit by medium weapons under most conditions, speed helps but does not render them invulnerable. At cruiser size and smaller with speedfreaked fittings they suddenly become damn near invulnerable, and frigs DO be come invulnerable. The cruisers can outrun even long-range precision rockets which is something a cruiser should never be able to do, not should they be able to easily outrun light missiles or avoid the explosion radius of missiles designed for cruisers. Frigates, also, should not be able to completely outrun rockets in either a straight line or while orbiting. Speed, once again, requires nerfing. :(
Vinchester	Posted - 2007.10.19 12:39:00 - [15] Originally by: Dei Originally by: RC Denton Originally by: Deva Blackfire Surprise. Large guns cant even hit "slow inty going 3km/s" at all. Using cruise as an example, but there should also be a t2 ammo type for large guns that gets them in the game vs smaller targets. In my opinion there should be more of a gap between large and small weapons so that it's nigh impossible to hit an inty in a battleship. Personally I want to see people that are actually needed in the smaller ships and not see fleets that consist of 90% Battleships, and we're slowing seeing that with role bonuses. I really don't want to see battleships able to swap ammo for the frigate size ships when they want and then switch back to fight the battleships. I approve.
Banana Torres The Green Banana Corporation	Posted - 2007.10.19 12:46:00 - [16] Part of me thinks, no leave them as they are. I have spend a long time training and a lot of ISK to make sure my cruisers do at least 5km/s and my interceptors a lot more. But on the other hand, PvP in Dungeon Runners > PvP in Eve Online. Which is quite sad really. And again you can't nerf nano-boats too much as they are about the only way that the small guy can hit back against a large alliance. Then I think, but PvP in Tabula Rasa > PvP in Eve Online. And its not even finished yet. So, of the three games I play the most PvP centric game has the least fun PvP. I suppose thats what makes it hard core. Sorry, I am rambling, but this is a complicated matter and I don't know where I stand on the issue.
gojwer	Posted - 2007.10.20 04:43:00 - [17] I suppose it boils down to this. in a perfect eve the setup would run like this. . bonuses to speed are strictly to combat webbing and make smaller ships less vulnerable to large gun/missile fire. . even at the best of speeds, a speedfreak should still be susceptible to enemy frigate/desy/light missile fire. in fact, these should be more efficient than any large guns heavily modified to hit extremely fast moving targets, i.e. large guns should be largely ineffective.. . maximum possible speed should be inversely proportional to the mass of the ship, with exceptions to designs of ships meant to go faster to catch ships smaller than them in a lower class size, such a lightweight battleship meant to catch speedfreak ships for example by its own speed, but with greatly reduced armor compared to another battleship, thus making its role purely for taking down other ships. people liken this game to rock, paper scissor. all things being equal, a class 1 step above should destroy the class below, and a class 2 steps below should give minor trouble and be hard for a class 2 steps above to kill. this is the simplest way to make the game balanced, but then theres the masses of variables that implants, modules, and different Tech level brings.
Dr Ming Mindworks	Posted - 2007.10.20 05:14:00 - [18] Anti-speed missile rigs should make missiles able to completely hose speed tanked ships. Light drones also need to go faster, and not have the MWD on/off issue.
SirMoric	Posted - 2007.10.20 05:46:00 - [19] So, this thread turned into a "buff missiles"- or "nerf speedmonsters"-thread.... Guess that was intended. What I don't understand about missiles in EVE is that the onborad computers in the missiles, or ship carrying them, aren't able to roughly calculate the track of a enemy ship and compensate in the flightpath of the missile so that the missile will explode in front of the target and thereby having the target fly through the fragments... Ofcourse this will only work in head-on shots... If the target is really fast. rgds
Reem Fairchild Minmatar Republic University	Posted - 2007.10.20 06:02:00 - [20] Originally by: Gecko O'Bac IE: Average speed crow: light missiles will probably hit some times, although with minimal damage. Short range turrets with the highest tracking possible will have a hard time hitting it at all. Long range turrets (from range, of course) will probably hit it no problem. Only if it's small ones, like on a sniping Cormorant or Thrasher. Something like a Munin or Eagle might get in a few light hits at 100+. Bigger turrets than that and you would have to be painted and be moving almost straight towards or straight away from them to be hit. However, when youSre speed tanking something, you're not going to be at 50+ km. you're going to be at 14-24 km orbiting. A frigate with an afterburner doing 800-1000 m/s easily speed tanks most turrets at that range (at least cruise size and up). To speed tank against missiles you have to go at at 5+ km/s.
Gamesguy Amarr D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.10.20 06:59:00 - [21] Originally by: Faye Valerii Not so sure about that ... My non-pimped Crow combined with my semi-crappy skills can still go 5km/s indefinitely. Thats a damage reduction of about....5-10%.
Mr Friendly That it Should Come to This Derek Knows Us	Posted - 2007.10.20 09:40:00 - [22] Originally by: RC Denton Originally by: Deva Blackfire Surprise. Large guns cant even hit "slow inty going 3km/s" at all. Using cruise as an example, but there should also be a t2 ammo type for large guns that gets them in the game vs smaller targets. Sure, so long as the inty's get a charge that hits BS for OMGWTF damage, too. Frankly, you're not supposed to be able to use one setup (read: equip) to counter most or all opposing foes you may encounter. My BS has really big guns that squash things, but only if it can track and then hit them. Inty's get a sig radius reduction bonus so they can orbit at high speed and lockdown with relative safety what would otherwise squash them like a bug. You suggestion would remove inty's effectiveness at their role... bad idea. Speed fits are an issue, but the solution is not to make the BS capable of killing even the smallest-of-sig frigates simply by loading a 'let's kill that annoying little ship before I switch back to my cruiser charge just prior to loading my BS killing charge'. __________________________________________________ FOLD. The Ultimate PVP. It really is Us vs. Them. clicky
cheesyhead Minmatar Cruoris Seraphim	Posted - 2007.10.20 09:52:00 - [23] i think its good that u cant hit smaller things with bigger weapons, this just makes the game that more interesting, i mean, who will fly a smaller ship if they get hit by everything. anything smaller than hacs for example will die trying to engage a battleship. I like it as it is. go adapt in pvp and dont go sitting her whining about it.
Frug Zenithal Harvest BROTHER'S WORD	Posted - 2007.10.20 10:04:00 - [24] Cruise missiles are not for shooting interceptors. Even I know that, and I'm ********. - - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - - If you think I'm awesome, say BOOO BOOO!! - Ductoris Neat look what I found - Kreul Hey, my marbles

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