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Walking Contradiction
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Posted - 2004.02.24 18:03:00 -
[1]
Hi Forsaken Empire,
I was just reading the "Venal is Dead" thread by Molle and an interesting discussion topic came to mind. The Forsaken Empire has fought both the New Venal Alliance and the Fountain Alliance. What are your opinions of these two, military wise?
Regards,
Sir WC - ninja mining veldspar in Todaki
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Mr Blonde
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Posted - 2004.02.24 18:16:00 -
[2]
Why do you ask? Is Techell looking to hire Evolution to buy a station in Venal aswell now?? 
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Are you gonna bark all day, little doggy, or are you gonna bite?? |
Havocide
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Posted - 2004.02.24 18:25:00 -
[3]
heyho,
Being a long term F-E member (since Biomass and m3g4 before that) I have had many fights with the various Venal Alliances.
Their organisation on the whole was never really that good when Biomass was in its prime wiping out entire fleets of NVA along side SPVD and allies.
They have a few good PVP corps within them but in even fleet battles we always seemed to get the upper hand, few if ever having to flee.
Fountain was a different story, their fleet was much more organised, i will put this down to the leadership of Bizzare and others, they used a diverse force of ships and managed to score some decent kills on us, i remember a number of times where we had to withdraw from fights vs them.
As you will see i keep talking of fleet battles, this is because the F-E only ever found this type of battle the most fun, we have never been into the log on log off tactics we hear about so much now on these forums.
Never underestimate the PA though, you can beat them down 100 times and they will still get back up 
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Lord Azraiel
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Posted - 2004.02.24 18:25:00 -
[4]
I being an ex-valkyrie/forsaken empire warrior, witnessed first hand that we walked over both of them. In every engagement that I was apart of, can't speak of any others, we were completely victorious wiht major defeat handed to our oponents, having destroyed multiple of their ships and not losing any of ours.
This is just in the engagements I have been in mind you.
"I'm comin' for ya, and Hell's comin' with me!" |
Walking Contradiction
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Posted - 2004.02.24 18:30:00 -
[5]
 Quote:
Why do you ask? Is Techell looking to hire Evolution to buy a station in Venal aswell now??
I enjoy politics in a good game. On top of that I also like to read about people's honest opinions. This has nothing to do with Techell at all.
On top of that, as long as they keep blowing eachother up, we can keep making profit! 
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The Reclaimer
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Posted - 2004.02.24 18:33:00 -
[6]
Quote:
Why do you ask? Is Techell looking to hire Evolution to buy a station in Venal aswell now??
W00t, a non-CA troll. You must be EvolVing.
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Jebidus Skari
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Posted - 2004.02.24 18:48:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Jebidus Skari on 24/02/2004 18:50:23
I'm not gonna go into the ins and outs of it all but I personally think Fountain conducted a much better defence of their region than Venal ever did.
I'm not saying it's because Venal is weaker or anything, far from it, they have plenty of good PvP'ers. It just seemed to me the Fountain was far more willing to put up a defence of their region for whatever reason.
Perhaps lag was the major factor in determining the motivation for massing fleets to fight. I didn't particulary enjoy any of the fighting in Fountain or Venal. I can get better (risk free) slideshows of fleet battles by visiting the player submitted screenshots on this website.
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Robotek Hybrid
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Posted - 2004.02.24 21:29:00 -
[8]
i was IN the nva when we were attacked ... it was chaos in groupo chat and all that. HORRIBLE leaders there bad communication. i remember 1 op imparticular nva logged off and 3 of us ( including me and my maller) were left at the gate. in about 10 minutes FE arrived i ran like a scared lil girl cuz it was me and my cruiser against 5 or 6 bs's. i told the log offs and they proceded to log on.. but at random times. some1 lost their bs cuz they logged on 1st and the next person loged on 30 seconds l8r that day every1 but 1 person in the corp died and half the fleet was killed.
Fountain on the other hand faught pretty well i wasnt there till the end tho and only had 1 fleet battle. which the losses were 1 fe bs and 2 fa bs's and a frig. pretty good if u ask me.
but yea alll the freaking mining SOME ppl did in pa when they died they just went back and got in a new BS. they arel ike roaches they just wont die.
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Robotek Hybrid
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Posted - 2004.02.24 21:29:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Robotek Hybrid on 24/02/2004 21:30:45
x2 post
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Christopher Xen
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Posted - 2004.02.24 22:21:00 -
[10]
Like Havocide I was a M3G4 member when the first shots were fired and participated in around 80% of the battles straight throught to the Fountain Campaighn.
I must say that initially fountain didnt put up an extreme or effective resistance until the very end."Superbowl" weekend.
Now the NVA/PA. Have always had problems with organization, communication, and moxy. Even when they had the numbers advantage and we were jumping into the middle of them, they logged off..ALL AT ONCE. Thier leadership and pilots seem to be lacking skills, as far as application of equipment. And the other problem they have is when the battle wavers even the most slight way against them they run away and log off.
ONE TIME they actually attempted an offensive, how ever after 1 3/4 hours of straight fighting they eventually collapsed and ran.
pound for pound If i had to choose whose better Id say Fountain. But then again they both had the same mentality, just more bal...moxy. and definately less political BS.
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Jhered Stern
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Posted - 2004.02.24 22:29:00 -
[11]
What made the Fountain campiagn was the fact tha Fountain stayed on the offensive day and night despite their losses. Soon we found ourselves low on ammo and no supply chain. We mined a bit and were able to manufacture a few ships and weapons but the constant frigate probes and assults prevented us from gaining a proper foot hold.
I explaine all this to tell the rest of Eve to consider Fountain an example of how a war in Eve should be fought.
With that I must say that I only cought the tail end of the Venal Wars and was only in 4 major battles with them. They do indeed have some good PvP players but IMHO they lack confidence in their ability to press the battle on the enenmy. I believe this may be due to a fear of losing a ship or two.
If they over come this fear they will discover what I call the "battle rage". I used to be afraid to fight because I didn't know what buttons to push and at what time. Once I got into a scrap or two and learned how to use my gear I became less and less concerened about who or what the enemy was but more about taking him down with my current setup. I practice a lot! I try new things and I listen to the expressions of the veterans.
Today I believe the Venal wars were my doorway to becomming a true battleship commander. I have stood toe to toe with two battlehips and run them off. This I can attribute to the Forsaken Empire veterans of venal and what they have tought me.
Venal and Fountain were both exciting campaigns. I hope to see more here in the future. All I can say is that the adrenaline flows faster when somone else is trying to pod you too.
Jhered Out!
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darth solo
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Posted - 2004.02.24 22:47:00 -
[12]
Quote:
Now the NVA/PA. Have always had problems with organization, communication
i dont think anyone can argue with that one:(.
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scouting
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Posted - 2004.02.25 00:01:00 -
[13]
does Mr Blonde bump into things?
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Last nights patch, was, without doubt, the worst ever. Rest assured that I was on the forum within minutes registering my disgust throughout the world. |
scouting
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Posted - 2004.02.25 00:05:00 -
[14]
Quote:
I being an ex-valkyrie/forsaken empire warrior, witnessed first hand that we walked over both of them. In every engagement that I was apart of, can't speak of any others, we were completely victorious wiht major defeat handed to our oponents, having destroyed multiple of their ships and not losing any of ours.
This is just in the engagements I have been in mind you.
i dont know who you are, but i suspect you are master of the universe without even knowing it
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Last nights patch, was, without doubt, the worst ever. Rest assured that I was on the forum within minutes registering my disgust throughout the world. |
Artegg
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Posted - 2004.02.28 22:52:00 -
[15]
"ONE TIME they actually attempted an offensive, how ever after 1 3/4 hours of straight fighting they eventually collapsed and ran."
Christopher i don't think that this comment was that fair when we jumped in to that fight none of us thought that we would be fighting for 1 3/4 hours so our missle boats ran out of ammo so instead of getting slaughter with no ammo we left
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Raven DeBlade
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Posted - 2004.02.28 23:28:00 -
[16]
weee another "sesible" thread...
"To hunt pirates you need time and patience, because even monkeys fall from the trees"
"Any statements made above this line are my persona" |
CubePusher
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Posted - 2004.02.28 23:54:00 -
[17]
another what thread?
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Raven DeBlade
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Posted - 2004.02.29 00:26:00 -
[18]
ohh i forgot an "n" i blame my keyboard... "sensible" was the word i was looking for....
"To hunt pirates you need time and patience, because even monkeys fall from the trees"
"Any statements made above this line are my persona" |
Jacob Molari
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Posted - 2004.02.29 01:06:00 -
[19]
A big difference, in my opinion, was this.
When we fought venal, you could see it ahead of time on a map. You'd look at the map, see a big blob up in venal or down in the vale, and that blob would head towards the intended victim.
In Fountain... we moved in! We were only one (1!!!!) system from our target. We set up shop, and tried to force them out.
When we fought venal, because of the distances involved, we fought battleship fleets, and 99% of the time the NVA went home licking their wounds... we won fleet battles (BS vs BS).
With fountain, they came with a more diverse package. Screening and scrambling frigates, with BS kill teams, made things much more interesting. And the only way they pulled this off was that since there was little travel, their clones were in the system, or at most 1 or 2 jumps a way.
In a protracted battle, we might have killed the same person 3 or 4 times, which up in venal was *never* the case. I almost view this as an exploit... but more on that another time.
In the end, the fighting in Fountain became tedious and "unfun", and a significant portion of the pirate alliances there left because of it. That left those who stayed with only two option, fight on and hope for the best, or leave and regroup.
The fountain campaign was incredibly painful to the FA, and I'd love to hear their side. The FA must still be working to recoup their losses, however, they were a very rich alliance before we went down there. I'd hope that even though most battles went the pirates way, that they enjoyed themselves. And yes, there were battles where the pirates had the worse end of it, but not that many to tell you the truth.
All in all, it's like comparing apples and oranges. The NVA never used the tactics that the FA did, because of the distances involed, and FA had a special localized advantage in that we were fighting in their home turf, and that they were rich enough to absorb a certain measure of losses.
So... that's my perspective.
~Molari out.
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Riddari
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Posted - 2004.02.29 02:01:00 -
[20]
Quote:
The fountain campaign was incredibly painful to the FA, and I'd love to hear their side. The FA must still be working to recoup their losses, however, they were a very rich alliance before we went down there. I'd hope that even though most battles went the pirates way, that they enjoyed themselves. And yes, there were battles where the pirates had the worse end of it, but not that many to tell you the truth.
Well what is lost can never be recouped  That being the time to make money that went into the war instead.
However we have replaced our ships and then some a while ago.
¼©¼
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