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Sebastion Heorod
State Protectorate Caldari State
3
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Posted - 2012.01.25 07:10:00 -
[1] - Quote
Ummm, the Hawk's "bonus" is -5% to rate of fire per level? i'm thinking either worst bonus ever or mis-print |
Rel'k Bloodlor
Mecha Enterprises Fleet
97
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Posted - 2012.01.25 07:24:00 -
[2] - Quote
So you want time between missiles to go up? Or are you just slow....... It's the best bonus you can get to a weapon. I am in Factional Warfare. Have been from day one.-á-áI will never work for a mega corp in null-sec. Do not make FW like null-sec.-áMake FW worth our time. Reword us for what we already do.Give us some more activities to do. |
Sebastion Heorod
State Protectorate Caldari State
3
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Posted - 2012.01.25 07:33:00 -
[3] - Quote
-5% rof means a slower rate of fire math genius, -5% to reload time would be faster |
ACE McFACE
Acetech Systems
554
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Posted - 2012.01.25 07:39:00 -
[4] - Quote
Sebastion Heorod wrote:-5% rof means a slower rate of fire math genius, -5% to reload time would be faster No, it means -5% cycle time of your module... Real men wear goggles and a Navy shirt! |
Teh Frog
Working Dog Ltd. Holdings
38
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Posted - 2012.01.25 07:41:00 -
[5] - Quote
ACE McFACE wrote:Sebastion Heorod wrote:-5% rof means a slower rate of fire math genius, -5% to reload time would be faster No, it means -5% cycle time of your module...
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Sebastion Heorod
State Protectorate Caldari State
3
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Posted - 2012.01.25 07:45:00 -
[6] - Quote
I know what the bonus is, but that is not what it says, what it says is the exact opposite. what it says is "-5% Bonus to missle launcher rate of fire per level" |
Grimpak
Midnight Elites Echelon Rising
369
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Posted - 2012.01.25 07:46:00 -
[7] - Quote
ACE McFACE wrote:Sebastion Heorod wrote:-5% rof means a slower rate of fire math genius, -5% to reload time would be faster No, it means -5% cycle time of your module...
[img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]
[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right |
Sebastion Heorod
State Protectorate Caldari State
3
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Posted - 2012.01.25 07:48:00 -
[8] - Quote
Sebastion Heorod wrote:I know what the bonus is, but that is not what it says, what it says is the exact opposite. what it says is "-5% Bonus to missle launcher rate of fire per level"
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ACE McFACE
Acetech Systems
554
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Posted - 2012.01.25 07:49:00 -
[9] - Quote
I already told you! CYCLE TIME LESS GOOD DPS UP Real men wear goggles and a Navy shirt! |
Sebastion Heorod
State Protectorate Caldari State
3
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Posted - 2012.01.25 07:57:00 -
[10] - Quote
in all other cases in the game where an item has a positive effect on rof the percent bonus is given as a positve number (implants for example) they do not say cycle time in the item description they say rate of fire
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ACE McFACE
Acetech Systems
554
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Posted - 2012.01.25 08:20:00 -
[11] - Quote
Sebastion Heorod wrote:in all other cases in the game where an item has a positive effect on rof the percent bonus is given as a positve number (implants for example) they do not say cycle time in the item description they say rate of fire
1. It does seem that many items (I checked the Raven and other things) have a positive number, but if you ask me -5% makes more sense because 5% would be making the rate of fire longer. 2. Cycle time is rate of fire Real men wear goggles and a Navy shirt! |
Dyaven
35
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Posted - 2012.01.25 08:30:00 -
[12] - Quote
Let's say your missile launcher has 10 second cycle time.
+5% to that would make it a 10.5 second cycle time. -5% to that would make it a 9.5 second cycle time.
Which would you prefer? |
Wideen
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2012.01.25 08:37:00 -
[13] - Quote
The ROF bonus is a great one, it raised the dps considerably on the Hawk which was desperately needed imo.
And with a fifth mid it actually became interesting to fly again! mine is already tried and tested.. :) |
Sebastion Heorod
State Protectorate Caldari State
3
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Posted - 2012.01.25 08:40:00 -
[14] - Quote
my point really has nothing to do with the math, in this release they have changed the name of modules and charges to simplify and provide a naming convention and at the same time they have given a bonus using wording that is completely opposite to a convention that they have already established. I know that math wise the -5% is the legitimate presentation, however, all other implants, skills, modules, rigs, and subsystems in this game that give the same bonus are presented with a positive percentage. and also +5% to that would make it a 10.5 second cycle time. -5% to that would make it a 9.5 second cycle time |
Mister Crispy
Universal Freelance CONSORTIUM UNIVERSALIS
6
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Posted - 2012.01.25 08:57:00 -
[15] - Quote
Seconding.
Raven and Hurricane have "5%" RoF. Hawk has "-5%" RoF.
EDIT:
ACE McFACE wrote:Sebastion Heorod wrote:in all other cases in the game where an item has a positive effect on rof the percent bonus is given as a positve number (implants for example) they do not say cycle time in the item description they say rate of fire
1. It does seem that many items (I checked the Raven and other things) have a positive number, but if you ask me -5% makes more sense because 5% would be making the rate of fire longer. 2. Cycle time is rate of fire
Increasing the "rate" of something means you're increasing the number of times it happens per second. So +5% to the "rate of fire" would be more damage. For exampe, if you increase the rate at which a car travels a yard, that means it's now going faster. |
Sebastion Heorod
State Protectorate Caldari State
3
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Posted - 2012.01.25 09:08:00 -
[16] - Quote
also an increase in the rate of fire is equal to a decrease in cycle time or a rate of 1 missle every minute is a cycle time of 1 minute, a rate of 2 missles every minute is a 30 second cycle time so rof and cycle although the same are opposite a higher rate is a lower cycle |
Soldarius
United Highsec Front The 99 Percent
138
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Posted - 2012.01.25 09:29:00 -
[17] - Quote
4/10 on the trollometer for a decent response. Was too easy too spot imo, though.
Personally, if I look at my rocket hawk before and after, and the launchers are firing faster than before, I'm happy panda. They can write the bonus however they want as long as it works as intended. "How do you kill that which has no life?" |
Tore Smith
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
8
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Posted - 2012.01.25 09:30:00 -
[18] - Quote
Sebastion Heorod wrote:my point really has nothing to do with the math, in this release they have changed the name of modules and charges to simplify and provide a naming convention and at the same time they have given a bonus using wording that is completely opposite to a convention that they have already established. I know that math wise the 5% is the legitimate presentation,also all other implants, skills, modules, rigs, and subsystems in this game that give the same bonus are presented with a positive percentage. and also +5% to that would make it a 10.5 second cycle time. -5% to that would make it a 9.5 second cycle time
dude you are right. last evening when i played around with the new afs i didnt like that as well.
ofc it makes sense, but it contradicts the established bonus descriptions of other missle ships. either have it unified or keep the old description. for young players this is confusing. |
Vile Coyote
Deep Space Legacy REN0VATI0
15
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Posted - 2012.01.25 09:42:00 -
[19] - Quote
Tore Smith wrote:either have it unified or keep the old description. for young players this is confusing. Seconded, it's about time the whole thing ( rate of / cycle time / + x % / - y %) gets clarified once and for all.
For ship bonii it is more a confort because no one expects getting lower damage output by training for the ship. But take a look at this : http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Wormhole_environment_effects#Cataclysmic_Variable
What does it do to your capacitor ? The chart says +25% cap and +25% recharge for a class 1 WH. Most players I know first thought it buffed both capacity and recharge rate. Actually the recharge rate is nerfed to compensate the capacity buff. Even staticmapper displays it as a bonus : http://staticmapper.com/index.php?system=J115015 |
river Zateki
The Elysian Agoge Elysian Empire
11
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Posted - 2012.01.25 13:09:00 -
[20] - Quote
Sebastion Heorod wrote:-5% rof means a slower rate of fire math genius, -5% to reload time would be faster
Derp
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Jacob Holland
Weyland-Vulcan Industries Alliance not Found
11
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Posted - 2012.01.25 13:22:00 -
[21] - Quote
Sebastion Heorod wrote:Ummm, the Hawk's "bonus" is -5% to rate of fire per level? i'm thinking either worst bonus ever or mis-print It's consistent with the nomenclature used. In the Show Info for the launcher there is a rate of fire attribute which is listed in seconds.
The problem is that you're trying to read the bonus as effecting a "shots per second" ratio (where a -5% bonus would be detrimental) whereas it's effecting a "seconds per shot" ratio. |
Flaming Head
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2012.01.25 13:36:00 -
[22] - Quote
As long as it's working properly who gives a ****? |
Frank Pannon
Fearless Bandits Sk33t Fl33t
4
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Posted - 2012.01.25 14:07:00 -
[23] - Quote
This simply does not deserve a post... |
M'ktakh
Republic University Minmatar Republic
7
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Posted - 2012.01.25 14:13:00 -
[24] - Quote
Jacob Holland wrote:Sebastion Heorod wrote:Ummm, the Hawk's "bonus" is -5% to rate of fire per level? i'm thinking either worst bonus ever or mis-print It's consistent with the nomenclature used. In the Show Info for the launcher there is a rate of fire attribute which is listed in seconds. The problem is that you're trying to read the bonus as effecting a "shots per second" ratio (where a -5% bonus would be detrimental) whereas it's effecting a "seconds per shot" ratio.
The nomenclature is consistent? Really?
An increase in the rate of something means a decrease of the time interval between each iteration of it happening. Frequency goes up, wavelength goes down. This is consistent.
Having the same effect (decreased deltaT, increased frequency) described by +5% and -5%, especially with -5% bonus and +5% bonus thrown in here or there, is rather stupid.
While it is on par with the level of info presentation and the false difficulty provided by obtuse wording and no Word-Of-God verification (also known as no manual), - for example, manually calculating the shield capacity and EHP of a Drake with 2 expanders, on invu running, one not running, and two passive resist amps is nasty business-, it is by no means streamlined, clear, or user friendly.
And user-unfriendliness is not difficulty, its being obtuse. |
Roosterton
Shattered Star Exiles SpaceMonkey's Alliance
270
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Posted - 2012.01.25 15:39:00 -
[25] - Quote
He's actually right.
If it was -5% cycle time it would be correct... but since it's -5% rate of fire it's actually a completely different meaning. The rate of something is how regularly it occurs; higher rate means it shoots faster which means it does more DPS. The bonus says that the rate is being decreased, even though it's obviously intended to be increased. A decreased rate would actually mean decreased DPS. |
Cambarus
Baros Reloaded
121
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Posted - 2012.01.25 15:42:00 -
[26] - Quote
Jacob Holland wrote:Sebastion Heorod wrote:Ummm, the Hawk's "bonus" is -5% to rate of fire per level? i'm thinking either worst bonus ever or mis-print It's consistent with the nomenclature used. In the Show Info for the launcher there is a rate of fire attribute which is listed in seconds. The problem is that you're trying to read the bonus as effecting a "shots per second" ratio (where a -5% bonus would be detrimental) whereas it's effecting a "seconds per shot" ratio. When every other ship in the game with a rate of fire bonus is measured as shots/second, arbitrarily having one that reads as seconds/shot with no distinction between the 2 is silly. When I can look at one ship, and see "5% Bonus to rate of fire per level", and another that reads "-5% Bonus to rate of fire per level" it makes little sense that these should be interpreted as being the same.
This is especially true when you look at destroyers before they got their most recent buff, the had a rate of fire PENALTY (and this I copy/paste directly from an older EFT): "Penalty: -25% rate of fire for all turrets"
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Daneel Trevize
The Scope Gallente Federation
63
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Posted - 2012.01.25 15:47:00 -
[27] - Quote
Being as no one has said the magic word on either page yet, what you want is a reduced Period. That is the time between shots, aka cycle time. It's inversely proportional to the frequency of shots, aka rate of fire. A rate is a count over time, it is not a unit of time. Basic maths & physics should have educated you about such matters. |
Sam Bowein
Sense Amid Madness
26
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Posted - 2012.01.25 15:50:00 -
[28] - Quote
The solution would be to fix the description by using a double negative:
decrease the rate of fire by -5% per level
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Cloora
APEX Unlimited APEX Conglomerate
62
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Posted - 2012.01.25 15:57:00 -
[29] - Quote
I think the issue we have here is the -5% per level as a bonus is a direct contradiction to how it has been presented in the past. The Raven and Hurricane have a 5% RoF bonus and destroyers used to have a -25% RoF penalty. Since CCP changed module names and ammo for more consistancy, one would assume that CCP screwed up and they should change either the new AF buffs to be consistent with the old bonus naming or change the old ones to match the new.
I HATE lack of consistancy. CEO and Major ShareholderAPEX ConglomerateMaker of Starsi softdrinks and Torped-Os! Cereal http://www.altaholics.blogspot.com
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Zarnak Wulf
CTRL-Q
221
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Posted - 2012.01.25 17:06:00 -
[30] - Quote
Posting in a OP beat down thread. |
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