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Alastar Frost
EVE University
Ivy League
13
   |
Posted - 2012.01.25 14:03:00 -
[1] - Quote
How about another idea to mining:
Create a whole different second way of dealing with mining by adding those 5 ships:
1. The "Belt Eater"
2. 4 "Towing Cruisers" (one for each race)
It would work as the following:
The Belt Eater has to go into a kind of "siege mode" to mine, has very short range (5k) but mines asteroids almost instantly. It is a capital like rorqual or orca and needs high sp (like exhumers + orca + additional skills). Now there is no point dropping the ship at a belt, mining the few asteroids in range and waiting out the siege timer, thats where the cruisers come in.
The towing cruisers have a special tractor beam that allows to "tow" or move asteroids. Each race has one and it needs a racial cruiser skill, ore industrial and a tractor skill (low sp requirements). Furthermore, it has some combat capability (like a t1 cruiser without combat boni, but a good slot layout). Those cruisers tow the asteroids to the Belt eater to give him something to chew. The racial differences can be in wepons, slot layout and number/range/velocity of the tractors.
Mining would then look like this: Plant the belt eater, have a group of low sp pilots tow the asteroids to it. There are different strategies for the towing, like building a chain and handing the rocks over or just flying all the way (that diverstity could be encouraged by different boni. Higher velocity and range for the chaining, shorter range but more tractors for the flying).
It would make mining a group effort (which is not necessarily the case today) and you only need one high sp char, the others can be combat pilots joining the op. Furthermore, as the cruisers have some inherent combat capability, they could deal with much more constant belt rat activity (some pew pew to not get bored).
In addition, the ability to tow asteroids can be used for additional features like moving an asteroid close to a pos or station, anchoring it there (by installing some equipment to stabilize it) and mounting weapons on it. This of course would mean that you need some rocks in proximity to the location as i dont see ships warping with a tractored asteroid. (could be funny to see mining ships in a combat fleet, destroying the asteroid on which the guns are mounted on to disable the weaponary ^^) |
Mary Annabelle
State War Academy
Caldari State
12
|
Posted - 2012.01.25 19:13:00 -
[2] - Quote
I just got this idea, from what you described.
Asteroid launcher: multiple tow ships working together, could launch asteroids at stations or POS's.
X number needed, must fleet up, and all be working as a team to warp the roid to a point on grid with the target.
Then your belt eater could reverse polarity on its intake system, and railgun the roid at the target.
This could not hit a moving target, so no ships would work.
It would be of slow speed, due to it's mass.
The roid could probably be destroyed before striking, if defenders are alert and available.
The tow ships and belt eater would be exposed until the launch finished, putting them at risk. |
Alastar Frost
EVE University
Ivy League
14
|
Posted - 2012.01.26 05:46:00 -
[3] - Quote
I didnt think that far. This would mean a whole new way of attacking structures too. I was more aiming at the structure of mining fleets and maybe some more belt rats to keep the mining fleets entertained.
The idea of integrating asteroids into base building was just an interesting addition. Making it into a siege weapon at the same time is huge. Altough, i like the idea of using the environment for the advantage not only of defeners but also attackers. This also means bringing Mining and PVP closer together, which is at least interesting.
More possbility of interaction with the environment is a desirable thing in my opinon. Now there are only "places" when you think of asteroid belts. If you can use them for your strategy in combat, be it offense or defense, it lets you see them as strategical ressources.
Thinking this through further, towing ice rocks could allow some unique combat tactics in systems with ice belts, adding more diversity to the strategy. Not every system has ice, so this tactic would not work everywhere. I could imagine igniting the reactive chemicals in the ice could be interesting or maybe some other ideas come up.
But i would also like to hear responses from the people running mining fleets if this could be interesting to the mining profession. |
Nikk Narrel
Infinite Improbability Inc
Mordus Angels
21
|
Posted - 2012.01.26 15:57:00 -
[4] - Quote
It sounds like good karma, actually.
Honestly, the PvP types have no problem inflicting their game style on miners.
Now we can come up with catch phrases!
In Null-Sec, asteroids mine you! |
Blatant Forum Alt
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
4
|
Posted - 2012.01.26 16:12:00 -
[5] - Quote
Minor (ish) tweak:
No towing cruisers. They are too restrictive, and thats a whole set of hulls that have one use only. Near pointless. Instead, have a 'towing' tractor beam. You could have restrictions on it so that it can only be used by industrials and/or mining barges, not fussed about that part. |
Nikk Narrel
Infinite Improbability Inc
Mordus Angels
21
|
Posted - 2012.01.26 16:22:00 -
[6] - Quote
Blatant Forum Alt wrote:Minor (ish) tweak:
No towing cruisers. They are too restrictive, and thats a whole set of hulls that have one use only. Near pointless. Instead, have a 'towing' tractor beam. You could have restrictions on it so that it can only be used by industrials and/or mining barges, not fussed about that part.
Industrials feels right for this part.
I think that industrials should get a bonus to all tractor beams anyways. |
Alastar Frost
EVE University
Ivy League
14
|
Posted - 2012.01.26 16:48:00 -
[7] - Quote
The idea was to use a unbonussed cruiser class ship with a racial cruiser skill (almost everyone has at least one of those skills) and ore industrial (currently only used by the noctis, btw one of the ships with huge tractor boni  ), which is easy to train.
I imagined it to be light on the sp of the towing pilots (to get new players and pve/pve players into the op easily) and skill heavy on the belt eater pilot (who needs massive sp in mining stuff).
Making it just another module that can be fit on every hull (not a dedicated one), would make balancing much harder. The reason for cruisers was, that they have the moving speed to tow something (not like a snail like bs) and some tank and weapons to deal with belt rats as a group.
Allowing industrials in general to fit the towing beams should be no problem, they are slow as hell and dont have much slots for them, so i cant see how you could abuse that. Noctis and some BC with 8 high slots are another story 
However, that are details. Lets poke CCP with the asteroid towing idea  |
Velicitia
Open Designs
455
|
Posted - 2012.01.26 17:17:00 -
[8] - Quote
As a veteran miner, I have to vehemently oppose this idea. Whatever the skill requirements are, people will get them relatively quickly, leaving the newbie types in the dust.
Mineral prices will plummet (though, admittedly, trit at near 4.0 isk is a little high), making mining as a profession even more worthless for anyone not in this mining cap ship.
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Valei Khurelem
227
|
Posted - 2012.01.26 17:37:00 -
[9] - Quote
Mining is already worthless for anyone not in a mining capital ship, as it stands now it's going to be easier to make ISK if someone takes a few days training in PI, finds a quiet system and get to work on building their colonies, than spend several weeks mining high sec asteroids.
I think the problem with high sec mining is simple supply and demand, it's easy to get high sec ores and there is plenty of it around but you hardly use it to manufacture anything useful by itself, anything useful requires you to venture into low sec or 0.0 space which means of course you are going to get instantly ganked by people who are brave enough to go after a defenceless mining ship but not brave enough to attack someone who could kill them in return.
"don't get us wrong, we don't want to screw new players, on the contrary. The core problem here is that tech 1 frigates and cruisers should be appealing enough to be viable platforms in both PvE and PvP." -á - CCP Ytterbium |
Alastar Frost
EVE University
Ivy League
14
|
Posted - 2012.01.26 17:40:00 -
[10] - Quote
The idea is that the person in the mining cap ship is almost completly useless without someone towing the asteroids to him.
He will be in "siege mode" for an extended period with an very short range of his mining lasers. It doesnt help to have a massive mining yield, if there is nothing to mine around you.
The newbies in the cruisers towing the asteroids will be what makes that interesting, and those dont requiere much sp.
Fleetwise, this can be balanced in a way that the one big ship + towing cruisers matches the mining yield of an all barge/exumer fleet with an orca/rorqual. The barges move around in the belt mining it, the belt eater sits still and has the cruisers moving. As he eats the belt, the ways for cruisers get longer and longer until the belt eater can reposition. You have to strategically plan the "piles" of asteroids to make it efficient, and it will always be a group effort.
I dont see how this will decrease the value of ore, besides maybe making mining more interesting and therefore drawing more players to a casual mining op. |
Valei Khurelem
227
|
Posted - 2012.01.26 17:41:00 -
[11] - Quote
Quote:
I dont see how this will decrease the value of ore, besides maybe making mining more interesting and therefore drawing more players to a casual mining op.
It won't do anything to the price of ore, the person suggesting this is talking bollocks as are most of the ones who claim so whenever new mining ideas are put forward.
"don't get us wrong, we don't want to screw new players, on the contrary. The core problem here is that tech 1 frigates and cruisers should be appealing enough to be viable platforms in both PvE and PvP." -á - CCP Ytterbium |
SpawnSupreme
War Mongers
2
|
Posted - 2012.01.26 18:09:00 -
[12] - Quote
uh-....... im impartial to this idea cuz it seems as tho it would be a uber heavy used item and obsolite other mine cass ships.
how i would improve this idea is complicat it that much more
orca shoud be given the ability to compact ore like rorq
a new ore cap ship and turret modual
ship ability would be imune to EW and can jump so if used in 0.0 it can get away long as it does not have a heavy dic lock it down
give it same mid and low slots as the nidhoger minmitar dread for tanking but give it low shilds. its mid slots are for scan moduals.
my thery is make it a oversized refine ship.
it has to siege mode to activate its refinery. you can exit siege mode by elapse time and exhaust fuel or abanden operations witch any and alll refine operations must be canceled.
dencity scanner will determine size and weight and will calculate the refine time regular mine ships can reduce mass through normal means by miners assisting the ore ship.
demolecularizer turret will work almost like cloud harvester and tractor beam and strip miner all in 1 (fluff- shoot the asteroid of correct size it breaks down the molecular compusition vacumes up debree)
skills = deep scan, demoleculizer, ship, refine operations, prerequisates
ship skill - will improve ships refine up to 99% with best skills and maybe 7.5 bonus to armor repair ammount per level.
scan skill and mod- help you determine the faster and easier rocks to shoot (smaller less mass rocks refine faster)
turret skill - allows the number of turrets max skill is 5 turrets and max refine operations skill out to keep himself busy.
refine operations skill- are number of refine jobs you can preform at once but no job can finnish till cargo hold is empty
this ought to keep the cap pilot busy more so if he has corp mates contributing ore to be refined.
make the ship refine then must eject or place ore into space or corperate hanger of nearby cap ship |
Alastar Frost
EVE University
Ivy League
14
|
Posted - 2012.01.27 00:02:00 -
[13] - Quote
The siege mode of the belt eater is just a way to balance the new mining style to the old one. As the ship is held in place for some time, it needs the smaller ships to get asteroids for it towed into range. so aborting the siege cycle would allow to abuse the belt eater by warping it around in the belt even if it has a ridiculously low speed. A siege mode is the only way to make sure it works as intended. And aborting the cycle is not an option.
I dont want an uber capital miner that makes the exhumers obsolete, it should only give another "style" of mining. Not better (in terms of yield), just different. The yield of the belt eater does not depend on its own yield, which is incredibly high, it depends on how fast the cruiser sized tow ships can get stuff into range. So it depends mostly on how much cruisers you have, their number of towing tractors and the distance of the roids and the velocity of the towing tractors.
It should be balanced to yield a similar amount of ore as a same sized barge/exhumer fleet with a orca/rorqual booster to not make those ships obsolete. The options for using asteroids for pos/station defense and the other ideas are just a far reach what could be possible if movable asteroids are implemented.
Again, i dont want just an uber-mining-capital with which a single person could do the job of a whole fleet. On the contrary, i want to see a way of mining that only works as a group effort. |
Amaroq Dricaldari
Total Annihilation.
Pandorum Invictus
13
|
Posted - 2012.01.27 00:18:00 -
[14] - Quote
Maybe your Towing Cruisers could also be used for Towing Ships.
This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine. |
Atum
Eclipse Industrials
Quantum Forge
21
|
Posted - 2012.01.27 17:37:00 -
[15] - Quote
Amaroq Dricaldari wrote:Maybe your Towing Cruisers could also be used for Towing Ships.
Why bother? It's either a ship I want (in which case, I'll BM it, take my current ride back to base, and come back in my egg to claim it), or a ship I don't. If I don't want it, I can either auction the BM to someone who does, or just blow the sucker up  |
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