EVE Search - CCP big mistake (or why amarrs need a COMPLETE rework)

All Channels

Ships and Modules

CCP big mistake (or why amarrs need a COMPLETE rework)

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: 1 2 :: [one page]
Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Arnold Duncan	Posted - 2007.10.23 15:04:00 - [1] Now that t2 stats are out there will surely be a lot of nerf this and buff this threads. This is not one of those and please don't try to get it there. This thread is exclusively for pointing out a mistake made by ccp about 2 years ago when half of the universe were piloting raven (to farm mission) and the other half geddon (coz gankageddon was uber) In one year ccp, believing amarr too much overpowered and too good in dealing damage made some corrections to the game (sometimes not directly to amarr) that nerfed amarrs to the stone age, transforming the geddon in a balanced BS. The great mistake is that they nerfed the whole race while the problem were a couple of ships thus making all other OLD t1 ships completely useless. Meanwhile they put out some new ships. Such new ships, as the battlecruisers or the destroyers or the recons or most of capital ships were launched after amarr got nerfed and therefore were put out "almost" balanced with other races. Mainly they work out a fix for the whole race while they had to fix specific ships and didn't ever work out a fix for the whole race but only for some specific ships when they had a full race screwed up. Now giving 25% more cap on amarr ships would balance a bit more most t1 ships... but could you imagine a geddon with 25% more cap? or an harbinger with 25% more cap? or a sacrilege or some of "the now good amarr ships"? Or even buffing laser would be a nice way to fix most of amarr ships, but the problem is always the same, some ships are flawed in concept and would become too much overpowered. That's why amarr need a complete rework. They need more roles (2 almost identical BSes, a completely useless cruiser (auguror), less frigs than any other race etc.) and they need a race rework. Are we or are we not the cap Kings?
Cailais Amarr VITOC Fang Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.23 15:11:00 - [2] Massive Cap regeneration - It would assist virtually every Amarr ship out there including the new EW Frigate and Recons. Drastically reducing Amarr ships cap regen gets my vote. C. - sig designer - eve mail Low Sec Idea
Madla Mafia The Dead Man's Hand	Posted - 2007.10.23 15:13:00 - [3] They need some real love. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The A in Amarr seems to stands for Adapt...
Kuzya Morozov Gallente Beets and Gravy Syndicate	Posted - 2007.10.23 15:22:00 - [4] "a lot of nerf this and buff this threads." contradicting yourself there -------------------------- "There's always a bigger blob." -Qui-Gon Jinn
Arnold Duncan	Posted - 2007.10.23 15:28:00 - [5] Originally by: Kuzya Morozov "a lot of nerf this and buff this threads." contradicting yourself there NO. I'm proposing a total rework of the whole race. Like: What we want amarr to do best? This, this and this. And then change every ship in base of what they think they should do. Not a mix of things to make them good, nerf this, buff this.
Captain Schmungles Caldari Freelancing Corp Confederation of Independent Corporations	Posted - 2007.10.23 15:54:00 - [6] A rework is probably a nice idea, so here's a few of my ideas for such a rework: Crystals Crystals need a lot of attention. They're nice in that you can vary the ratio of em and thermal damage, but they're bad in that the crystals give you a range penalty. No other race has this quirk-- t1 ammo affects gun range. Crystals need to be made like any other t1 ammo: they can allow you to vary damage type, but they have no effect on range. In the t1 world, the only things that should affect range are ship bonuses, skills, and whether you are using pulse lasers (short range) or beam lasers (long range). Cap This is where the Amarr have a lot of problems. Lasers use more cap than any other weapon, yet the ships never seem to have enough cap to simultaneously shoot and run a tank. Almost every ship gets a "5% reduction in cap use per level" bonus, which makes it kind of a stupid "bonus" to have. The ships that get that bonus should just have their native cap amount increased to whatever it would be if you had the appropriate ship command skill trained to level 5. -OR- Why do lasers use more cap than rails or blasters? I've never seen a good rationale for it, and I doubt that one exists. Why not just make lasers, blasters, and rails all use the same amount of cap? Amarr ships might still need a slight increase in their native overall cap, but the current difference in cap usage is "unbalanced" without a good reason for it. This would also eliminate the ubiquitous cap reduction bonus and allow CCP to add other, better, bonuses (damage bonus, rof bonus, range bonus, tracking bonus, etc.)
omiNATION Gallente	Posted - 2007.10.23 16:08:00 - [7] Originally by: Captain Schmungles A rework is probably a nice idea, so here's a few of my ideas for such a rework: Crystals Crystals need a lot of attention. They're nice in that you can vary the ratio of em and thermal damage, but they're bad in that the crystals give you a range penalty. No other race has this quirk-- t1 ammo affects gun range. Crystals need to be made like any other t1 ammo: they can allow you to vary damage type, but they have no effect on range. In the t1 world, the only things that should affect range are ship bonuses, skills, and whether you are using pulse lasers (short range) or beam lasers (long range). Cap This is where the Amarr have a lot of problems. Lasers use more cap than any other weapon, yet the ships never seem to have enough cap to simultaneously shoot and run a tank. Almost every ship gets a "5% reduction in cap use per level" bonus, which makes it kind of a stupid "bonus" to have. The ships that get that bonus should just have their native cap amount increased to whatever it would be if you had the appropriate ship command skill trained to level 5. -OR- Why do lasers use more cap than rails or blasters? I've never seen a good rationale for it, and I doubt that one exists. Why not just make lasers, blasters, and rails all use the same amount of cap? Amarr ships might still need a slight increase in their native overall cap, but the current difference in cap usage is "unbalanced" without a good reason for it. This would also eliminate the ubiquitous cap reduction bonus and allow CCP to add other, better, bonuses (damage bonus, rof bonus, range bonus, tracking bonus, etc.) blaster range is affected by ammo, i'd guess the same for minmatar, only one that isn't is missiles and drones. I have a domi, i have a hard time permarunning my guns and tank at the same time. is that what you mean? perma tank? if that's the case i'd suggest a nos or two given that Amaar tends to be cap heavy, if nothing else prevents the other guys from using it to rep and stuff. why do lasers use more energy than guns? uh... because they;re... lasers? i mean to shoot a gun you don't really have to find an outlet and plug it in, ya know? game wise, it's a way to differentiate between weapons. If your ship doesn't get damage bonuses, just use projectile to offset the cap issue. EVE, basically an MMORPG with prison rules.
Arnold Duncan	Posted - 2007.10.23 16:27:00 - [8] Originally by: Captain Schmungles A rework is probably a nice idea, so here's a few of my ideas for such a rework: Crystals Cap Why do lasers use more cap than rails or blasters? I've never seen a good rationale for it, and I doubt that one exists. Why not just make lasers, blasters, and rails all use the same amount of cap? Amarr ships might still need a slight increase in their native overall cap, but the current difference in cap usage is "unbalanced" without a good reason for it. This would also eliminate the ubiquitous cap reduction bonus and allow CCP to add other, better, bonuses (damage bonus, rof bonus, range bonus, tracking bonus, etc.) About crystals, as said, only ammo that does not change range are missiles and drones. Anyway i must agree that even if it's nice it's totally useless. Why should i shoot to 45 km? Engages are usually between 0 15 km or over 200 km. If there is anything else in that range is because it's going away or coming to you pretty fast. Cap si undoubetely an issue. Once they used more cap because "they had a built-in heat sink" and therefore they had also high pg requirement to make them difficult to use by other races. Nowadays they are equalized with other weapons as damage and rof but not as cap use or pg requirements.
Kruel Blunt Force Syndicate	Posted - 2007.10.23 16:30:00 - [9] Problem is also in the racial bonuses. Amarr get more cap to compensate for cap hungry lasers which don't have an advantage to other weapons systems. Meanwhile other races get bigger dronebays, faster ships, damage bonuses. Amarr get a few ships with nos/neut bonuses... tis ok as long as range is in the bonus. We also get Tracking Disruptor bonus which is crap since you're better off fitting unbonused damps over TDs. And the OP's right about older ships getting the shaft. Ships introduced after the Amarr nerf are mostly ok. Others, like the t1 frigs/cruisers and Zealot are clearly obsolete.
Acoco Osiris Gallente Sublime.	Posted - 2007.10.23 21:56:00 - [10] We can't too severely whack with Amarrian capacitors, otherwise they'll be able to cap Xfer other ships all day easily. ------------------------------ One more soldier off to war... And one Velator in my hangars.
shinsushi Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.10.23 22:15:00 - [11] Edited by: shinsushi on 23/10/2007 22:19:34 I see the problem as this(I removed the 25% dmg bonus from the tempest). Lasers were meant to have a damage bonus included in them, and as we can see from the capital ships, they were meant to gank less than blasters but more than the rest. Right now, lasers are the least damaging of turrets with bonuses taken into account. The -10% cap /lvl was supposed to be in conjunction with pulses sitting in-between both blasters and ACs after they received their 25% bonus to dmg or RoF respectively. You can see something similar with Tachyons. They were supposed to be the blasters of long-range, shorter range but higher damage. When you take into account 25% dmg to 425mm railguns, they do the same amount of damage. As it is now, due to low laser damage, ships that receive the -50% cap bonus are no better off than fitting blasters or ACs. This is a design flaw in lasers, not the ships or the bonuses. In order to put lasers back to where they should be, a 15-20% damage increase is warranted on all sub-capital lasers. No some detractors may say "but lasers have the greatest range." Well the penalty for that range is poor short-range tracking, higher fitting requirements, and much higher cap-use. This will require, as you said, a rebalancing of the armageddon, the abaddon, and the harbinger. The abaddon can simply change from 25% damage to -10% cap use, making it clearly the tanker. The armageddon and harbinger will have to loose a high/turret slot(changed for a low on the harbie, and a mid on the arma), so as not to make it OMGWTF damage, and the harbinger's bonus changed to RoF. Conversely, the Armageddon could loose the 125M3 drone bay, in favor of a 50-75m3 drone bay and retain the turret. Now with these changes the -10% cap/level actually looks like a bonus again, instead of a constant remind of the sub-par performance of lasers. AMARR - Taking it up the butt since 2005
Arenis Xemdal Amarr	Posted - 2007.10.23 22:21:00 - [12] Lasers do have a built in damage bonus, and do outdamage every other weapon in their range. People say Mega Pulse suck because they can't defeat blasters but often forget they have three times the range. And no, I've never heard of anybody saying the advantage of lasers is range. I don't know what world you live in. Lasers only have the highest optimal, which means they hit more consistently further out and then stop hitting abruptly where projectiles and railguns might still be reaching sufficiently on falloff.
shinsushi Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.10.23 22:41:00 - [13] Originally by: Arenis Xemdal Lasers do have a built in damage bonus, and do outdamage every other weapon in their range. People say Mega Pulse suck because they can't defeat blasters but often forget they have three times the range. And no, I've never heard of anybody saying the advantage of lasers is range. I don't know what world you live in. Lasers only have the highest optimal, which means they hit more consistently further out and then stop hitting abruptly where projectiles and railguns might still be reaching sufficiently on falloff. Ok, answer me this... do you think Dreadnoughts are balanced? Do you think they are visions of what CCP intended with each race's gun boats (more-or less.) If you look above at the chart (which I am sure you still haven't even looked at) you'll see where lasers sit, with their in-built damage bonuses. I really doubt minmatar ships were ever meant to do more damage then amarrians.. more alpha yes, but not damage. Minnies get lesser damage for being middle of the road for everything, fast speeds with low-sigs, and cap-less/lol fitting weapon systems. I am not saying pulses should defeat blasters, they really shouldn't. Oh and if you read the forums more often, you'll see tons of people saying range is a huge advantage of lasers, along with OMG damage(lol) and superb tracking. Or you'll find people saying that tachies are superweapons (debunked by TomB or Tusford) and that everything is fine. These are either out-right misconceptions, or left-over perceptions from a game that EvE used to be. AMARR - Taking it up the butt since 2005
Ash Vincetti Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2007.10.23 22:47:00 - [14] Originally by: Arenis Xemdal Lasers do have a built in damage bonus, and do outdamage every other weapon in their range. Unfortunately, the built in damage bonus is also countered by the fact that the base EM resistance of armor is at a base 60%, and generally much higher in most omni setups, while being unable to switch away from the primary EM damage. (This is especially true in the t1 lineup) ----- free bree!
Kuzya Morozov Gallente Beets and Gravy Syndicate	Posted - 2007.10.23 23:16:00 - [15] Originally by: Arnold Duncan Originally by: Kuzya Morozov "a lot of nerf this and buff this threads." contradicting yourself there NO. I'm proposing a total rework of the whole race. Like: What we want amarr to do best? This, this and this. And then change every ship in base of what they think they should do. Not a mix of things to make them good, nerf this, buff this. What you essentially want is for them to get better, which is a buff. -------------------------- "There's always a bigger blob." -Qui-Gon Jinn
shinsushi Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.10.23 23:31:00 - [16] Originally by: Kuzya Morozov Originally by: Arnold Duncan Originally by: Kuzya Morozov "a lot of nerf this and buff this threads." contradicting yourself there NO. I'm proposing a total rework of the whole race. Like: What we want amarr to do best? This, this and this. And then change every ship in base of what they think they should do. Not a mix of things to make them good, nerf this, buff this. What you essentially want is for them to get better, which is a buff. Is he wrong to ask for a buff? I didn't see him saying nerf this too much. AMARR - Taking it up the butt since 2005
Maedoc	Posted - 2007.10.23 23:37:00 - [17] Edited by: Maedoc on 23/10/2007 23:39:58 Originally by: omiNATION Originally by: Captain Schmungles A rework is probably a nice idea, so here's a few of my ideas for such a rework: Crystals Crystals need a lot of attention. They're nice in that you can vary the ratio of em and thermal damage, but they're bad in that the crystals give you a range penalty. No other race has this quirk-- t1 ammo affects gun range. Crystals need to be made like any other t1 ammo: they can allow you to vary damage type, but they have no effect on range. In the t1 world, the only things that should affect range are ship bonuses, skills, and whether you are using pulse lasers (short range) or beam lasers (long range). Cap This is where the Amarr have a lot of problems. Lasers use more cap than any other weapon, yet the ships never seem to have enough cap to simultaneously shoot and run a tank. Almost every ship gets a "5% reduction in cap use per level" bonus, which makes it kind of a stupid "bonus" to have. The ships that get that bonus should just have their native cap amount increased to whatever it would be if you had the appropriate ship command skill trained to level 5. -OR- Why do lasers use more cap than rails or blasters? I've never seen a good rationale for it, and I doubt that one exists. Why not just make lasers, blasters, and rails all use the same amount of cap? Amarr ships might still need a slight increase in their native overall cap, but the current difference in cap usage is "unbalanced" without a good reason for it. This would also eliminate the ubiquitous cap reduction bonus and allow CCP to add other, better, bonuses (damage bonus, rof bonus, range bonus, tracking bonus, etc.) blaster range is affected by ammo, i'd guess the same for minmatar, only one that isn't is missiles and drones. I have a domi, i have a hard time permarunning my guns and tank at the same time. is that what you mean? perma tank? if that's the case i'd suggest a nos or two given that Amaar tends to be cap heavy, if nothing else prevents the other guys from using it to rep and stuff. why do lasers use more energy than guns? uh... because they;re... lasers? i mean to shoot a gun you don't really have to find an outlet and plug it in, ya know? game wise, it's a way to differentiate between weapons. If your ship doesn't get damage bonuses, just use projectile to offset the cap issue. One little issue with that, Railguns and Hybrid weaponry would use a crap load of energy. Ever hear of the US Navy's 24 Mega Watt Railgun? its smaller than a 5" cannon, and uses loads of energy. WTB Grammar +5 implant
shinsushi Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.10.24 00:03:00 - [18] Originally by: omiNATION blaster range is affected by ammo, i'd guess the same for minmatar, only one that isn't is missiles and drones. I have a domi, i have a hard time permarunning my guns and tank at the same time. is that what you mean? perma tank? if that's the case i'd suggest a nos or two given that Amaar tends to be cap heavy, if nothing else prevents the other guys from using it to rep and stuff. why do lasers use more energy than guns? uh... because they;re... lasers? i mean to shoot a gun you don't really have to find an outlet and plug it in, ya know? game wise, it's a way to differentiate between weapons. If your ship doesn't get damage bonuses, just use projectile to offset the cap issue. Actually ammo has very little effect on blaster/autocannon ranges. You can see this by the nice smooth curve they exhibit in damage charts. AMARR - Taking it up the butt since 2005
Rockbox Exanimo Inc Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.10.24 01:10:00 - [19] yer fix ****in amarr
Cosmo Raata Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.10.24 01:55:00 - [20] What is the point in even talking about this anymore guys? CCP saw how few of us fly amarr when the economist put out his blog, they basically figure that we can all cross train and they dont have to even try to fix Amarr. Our desire to get Amarr balanced isn't going to happen. CCP made some promises and those devs that made those promises have disappeared. Have you even seen Tux or TomB post a single word in the last 6 months? They are in witness protection and probably have new characters to post stuff with and therefore will never have to own up to the promises they made and never kept. The whole word "balancing" is a complete & utter joke. Don't Ban me for my Love of Amarr!
Grok Lask	Posted - 2007.10.24 02:58:00 - [21] Originally by: Cosmo Raata What is the point in even talking about this anymore guys? CCP saw how few of us fly amarr when the economist put out his blog, they basically figure that we can all cross train and they dont have to even try to fix Amarr. Our desire to get Amarr balanced isn't going to happen. CCP made some promises and those devs that made those promises have disappeared. Have you even seen Tux or TomB post a single word in the last 6 months? They are in witness protection and probably have new characters to post stuff with and therefore will never have to own up to the promises they made and never kept. The whole word "balancing" is a complete & utter joke. This is the reality of the situation. The devs are not capable of balancing Amarr. It wont ever happen.
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Uninvited Guests	Posted - 2007.10.24 04:44:00 - [22] Originally by: Grok Lask Originally by: Cosmo Raata What is the point in even talking about this anymore guys? CCP saw how few of us fly amarr when the economist put out his blog, they basically figure that we can all cross train and they dont have to even try to fix Amarr. Our desire to get Amarr balanced isn't going to happen. CCP made some promises and those devs that made those promises have disappeared. Have you even seen Tux or TomB post a single word in the last 6 months? They are in witness protection and probably have new characters to post stuff with and therefore will never have to own up to the promises they made and never kept. The whole word "balancing" is a complete & utter joke. This is the reality of the situation. The devs are not capable of balancing Amarr. It wont ever happen. Thats because subscribers that fly amarr are in minority to the other 3 races. Think they'll try to buff amarr and anger the great mass and potentially lose more clients then just keep amarr a so-so race? No. One can only hope ccp gets their azzez off that pile of gold their sitting on and actually balance the race for the sake of fairness and a good game.
Mattadore	Posted - 2007.10.24 05:11:00 - [23] Stfu, Amarr are fine. Stop whining!! You're ruining the game ffs.
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Uninvited Guests	Posted - 2007.10.24 05:13:00 - [24] Originally by: Mattadore Stfu, Amarr are fine. Stop whining!! You're ruining the game ffs. You already wrote this in the other thread. Maybe post with main? I think yes.
shinsushi Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.10.27 21:30:00 - [25] Originally by: Cosmo Raata What is the point in even talking about this anymore guys? CCP saw how few of us fly amarr when the economist put out his blog, they basically figure that we can all cross train and they dont have to even try to fix Amarr. Our desire to get Amarr balanced isn't going to happen. CCP made some promises and those devs that made those promises have disappeared. Have you even seen Tux or TomB post a single word in the last 6 months? They are in witness protection and probably have new characters to post stuff with and therefore will never have to own up to the promises they made and never kept. The whole word "balancing" is a complete & utter joke. QFT, just give up guys. Not only do CCP not care, there are quite a few "vets" or as I like to call the "lying alts" that fly amarr and say everything is fine. ++++++++++ AMARR - Taking it up the butt since 2005 Fixing Laser Boats 101
Arte Warspite Developments	Posted - 2007.10.27 22:20:00 - [26] Edited by: Arte on 27/10/2007 22:26:46 Originally by: shinsushi Actually ammo has very little effect on blaster/autocannon ranges. You can see this by the nice smooth curve they exhibit in damage charts. The type of ammo you use can affect the range greatly... In the grand scheme of things, the distances affected by ammo for short range weapons might not mean a great deal but it makes a difference if someone is struggling to control distance Example. My Deimos with T2 ions. Range with antimatter = 1875m (+6720m falloff) = 8595m = must be in web range to hit. Range with Iridium = 4500 (+6720m falloff) = 11220m = vague chance of hitting outside of web range. (or in range when using faction webbers for instance) Tactics and fighting style are irrelevent. The ammo does affect range significantly. The value of the differences shouldn't make a difference, but if you are in a situation where controlling range is an issue then it is a difference between defeat and victory. To the OP, I've heard that theory (how the Amarr 'problem came about) a few times now and it's very credible. I do think that Amarr spec pilots focus too much on their problems and not enough on the good stuff 'they' have. High cap use on lasers for instance was (I always thought) because they use cap as ammo and that means that reloads are not an issue unless you want to change range... so there's a silver lining to the cloud, as with every weapon system. Perhaps a complete rework isn't necessarily the right way around it. Maybe a collection of smaller changes such as a switch of the damage types (thermal/EM switch) might work and be easier to instigate???
Grimpak Gallente Trinity Nova KIA Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.27 22:58:00 - [27] Originally by: Arte High cap use on lasers for instance was (I always thought) because they use cap as ammo and that means that reloads are not an issue unless you want to change range... so there's a silver lining to the cloud, as with every weapon system. high cap usage on lasers was introduced to stop the trend of fitting lasers in everything (as in EVERYTHING, be it megathrons, tempests, ravens... you name it). this was a long time tho, so CCP changed it. increased cap consumption on lasers but gave cap usage bonus to amarr ships. problem solved. then came the pulse gankageddon and his full rack of HS II's on lows and melting ships in less than a blink of an eye. CCP cutted range of the pulses and made radio crystals do full EM damage. problem solved (massive whining tho) then CCP decides that combat is too fast. it was true. combat was fast. so what to do? let's boost everyone's ships hp, and introduce a new formula to the stacking modules. people last longer now. problem solved. then CCP decided to boost passive tanking. people rejoiced cuz they now could have tanks with resists on the house of the 80's and there was much rejoice... untill someone came and screamed that now lasers sucked lots. truth is. lasers weren't nerfed. the ONLY nerf that somewhat affected lasers was the stacking penalties, wich killed the zealot and his sometimes 5 HS setups for uber damage, the super-wtfpwnage geddon, and the monter alpha barrage sniper tempest (1 salvo and you were in half armor.... oh the days...). Lasers are in dire need of an update, because, like amarr, they were unable to keep up with the times. --- planetary interaction idea!
Kardim Viziam	Posted - 2007.10.28 01:39:00 - [28] yes please, ive been posting about this for a long while and have lost all energy to do so again, but rework is most needed thing in the game.
Captain Schmungles Caldari Freelancing Corp Confederation of Independent Corporations	Posted - 2007.10.28 03:11:00 - [29] Originally by: omiNATION I have a domi, i have a hard time permarunning my guns and tank at the same time. is that what you mean? perma tank? if that's the case i'd suggest a nos or two given that Amaar tends to be cap heavy, if nothing else prevents the other guys from using it to rep and stuff. No, that's not what I mean at all. The fact that a ship cannot permatank isn't bad imo, the fact that ships suffer so many cap issues that it affects their ability to tank in a similar way that gallente ships run a tank is a problem. Also, given the nos nerf, nos is no longer a viable go-to option for Amarr pilots to supplement their cap. Originally by: omiNATION why do lasers use more energy than guns? uh... because they;re... lasers? i mean to shoot a gun you don't really have to find an outlet and plug it in, ya know? game wise, it's a way to differentiate between weapons. If your ship doesn't get damage bonuses, just use projectile to offset the cap issue. Wrong answer. From an immersion perspective, have you even read the item description for rails? If you look in the item database, the description for rails reads: "Railguns use magnetic rails to fire solid chunks of matter at hypersonic speed." Sounds like that uses power (hypersonic= really really fast). The description for blasters: "Particle blasters operate on a similar principle as the railgun except they fire a magnetically contained ball of subatomic particles." Sounds like that uses power too (since the blaster must somehow be able to deconstruct the atomic structure of its ammo) So, all these guns use cap, yet why lasers use more cap than hybrids is a mystery. From a balance perspective it makes no sense why one race's weapon system would use more cap, but their ships would not compensate for that variance.
Reem Fairchild Minmatar Republic University	Posted - 2007.10.28 04:11:00 - [30] Originally by: Captain Schmungles Also, given the nos nerf, nos is no longer a viable go-to option for Amarr pilots to supplement their cap. Yeah, it is. That's pretty much the only place where nos is still useful: as a defensive module on cap hungry ships to help them keep their cap going. If anything the nos nerf has helped Amarr a lot. They can't be drained of cap by other ships anymore, and they can use nos themselves to sa***uard their cap.
Qui Shon	Posted - 2007.10.28 09:28:00 - [31] Edited by: Qui Shon on 28/10/2007 09:31:27 So what if half the crystals had their dmg types switched around? T1 L Gamma, for instance, would be 16 EM and 28 TH. Not a huge change, but would help regarding EANM/DCU tanks. As well as less limited PvE. Certainly not overpowering anything, since I understand TH is the most tanked dmg type, aside from EANM tanks.
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Uninvited Guests	Posted - 2007.10.28 09:42:00 - [32] Originally by: Reem Fairchild Originally by: Captain Schmungles Also, given the nos nerf, nos is no longer a viable go-to option for Amarr pilots to supplement their cap. Yeah, it is. That's pretty much the only place where nos is still useful: as a defensive module on cap hungry ships to help them keep their cap going. If anything the nos nerf has helped Amarr a lot. They can't be drained of cap by other ships anymore, and they can use nos themselves to sa***uard their cap. But youre forgetting how we lost our only superior ship, pilgrim. I think that evens it more then enough...
Captain Schmungles Caldari Freelancing Corp Confederation of Independent Corporations	Posted - 2007.10.29 19:53:00 - [33] Originally by: Reem Fairchild Yeah, it is. No it's not. Originally by: Reem Fairchild That's pretty much the only place where nos is still useful: a defensive module on cap hungry ships to help them keep their cap going. If anything the nos nerf has helped Amarr a lot. They can't be drained of cap by other ships anymore, and they can use nos themselves to sa***uard their cap. Wrong answer. Because nos now works based on proportion, your solution only works in situations where the Amarr ship has less cap than whatever it's taking on. Unfortunantly, because lasers are so cap-hungry amarr pilots really got hosed when they lost the ability to run nos right from the beginning of the fight.
shinsushi	Posted - 2007.10.29 23:40:00 - [34] Originally by: Qui Shon Edited by: Qui Shon on 28/10/2007 09:31:27 So what if half the crystals had their dmg types switched around? T1 L Gamma, for instance, would be 16 EM and 28 TH. Not a huge change, but would help regarding EANM/DCU tanks. As well as less limited PvE. Certainly not overpowering anything, since I understand TH is the most tanked dmg type, aside from EANM tanks. More thermal dmg just means tanks would migrate from EANs to higher thermal tanks most likely, since most of the turrets of new-eden would do thermal damage, along with her drones.
Demje	Posted - 2007.10.30 11:45:00 - [35] I'll probably touch on all the subjects. Crystals. The most important thing to have, the ultimate in versatility for a weapon system. crystals reload time is 1 second, so you can immediately change types, wheres others have to wait 8 seconds to load a different ammo. this is a HUGE advantage. Just like blasters, lasers do two types of damage, crystals modify these settings, damage, range, cap use. notice the last setting that is modified. use crystals that are low cap use if you have masses of guns, otherwise use the high damage crystals that dont reduce cap with just 2 or 3 guns. whatever range your enemy wants to fight at is what you DONT let them do. if they want to keep a certain distance, change crystals to fall outside their falloff, and keep them there so they cant do anything but try to load different ammo. you load 7 seconds faster. always keep spare crystals of every kind for the situation that is called for. despite the so called damage nerf, the best way to tank is by simply stopping them from hitting you at all, use that advantage. you can do this with pulse OR beam lasers. if you cant acheive active tank while firing all the damage you want, consider passive tanking? HPs are the best way to ensure you take lots of hits, even against a racial weakness, like gallente explosive, it works. amarr should have even less trouble being more well rounded. basically, if you take damage mods to do as much as possible, you wont want to tank, so use a speed module to get yourself at the point where the enemy is much less effective with their shots, while you swap crystals and start the face melting. you can change ammo faster than them. if you put all tank on, they may try to use your lack of velocity gain from modules against you and modify their range to get under your falloff, then you punish them by loading the right crystal. I am beginning to enjoy the pure adaptability of amarr. amarr 4 life.
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Uninvited Guests	Posted - 2007.10.30 11:49:00 - [36] Originally by: Demje I'll probably touch on all the subjects. Crystals. The most important thing to have, the ultimate in versatility for a weapon system. crystals reload time is 1 second, so you can immediately change types, wheres others have to wait 8 seconds to load a different ammo. this is a HUGE advantage. Just like blasters, lasers do two types of damage, crystals modify these settings, damage, range, cap use. notice the last setting that is modified. use crystals that are low cap use if you have masses of guns, otherwise use the high damage crystals that dont reduce cap with just 2 or 3 guns. whatever range your enemy wants to fight at is what you DONT let them do. if they want to keep a certain distance, change crystals to fall outside their falloff, and keep them there so they cant do anything but try to load different ammo. you load 7 seconds faster. always keep spare crystals of every kind for the situation that is called for. despite the so called damage nerf, the best way to tank is by simply stopping them from hitting you at all, use that advantage. you can do this with pulse OR beam lasers. if you cant acheive active tank while firing all the damage you want, consider passive tanking? HPs are the best way to ensure you take lots of hits, even against a racial weakness, like gallente explosive, it works. amarr should have even less trouble being more well rounded. basically, if you take damage mods to do as much as possible, you wont want to tank, so use a speed module to get yourself at the point where the enemy is much less effective with their shots, while you swap crystals and start the face melting. you can change ammo faster than them. if you put all tank on, they may try to use your lack of velocity gain from modules against you and modify their range to get under your falloff, then you punish them by loading the right crystal. I am beginning to enjoy the pure adaptability of amarr. amarr 4 life. This would be all great ideas in a fantasy universe outside eve where we have 20km webs and are the speed race and are also able to fit mwd without capping or pg'ing out. We cant dictate range in eve, you fail.
Demje	Posted - 2007.10.30 12:03:00 - [37] no u fail, troll. if you cant adapt with amarr go back to wow.
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Uninvited Guests	Posted - 2007.10.30 12:05:00 - [38] Originally by: Demje no u fail, troll. if you cant adapt with amarr go back to wow. No I think you fail. fetches some cookies to feed her, from now on, favorite alt troll
Laboratus Gallente BGG League of Abnormal Gentlemen	Posted - 2007.10.30 12:44:00 - [39] web drones... ___ P.S. Post with your main. Mind control and tin hats
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Uninvited Guests	Posted - 2007.10.30 12:46:00 - [40] Originally by: Laboratus web drones... Good idea, because amarr lasers will do enough damage by their own as it is so we dont need the extra drone damage. . . . . . . [sarcasm mode off]
Demje	Posted - 2007.10.30 13:17:00 - [41] looks like someones still a noob no matter how old their amarr race character is. u either adapt or get owned and cry and leave. WoW will always have a place for you :)
Laboratus Gallente BGG League of Abnormal Gentlemen	Posted - 2007.10.30 13:36:00 - [42] web drones + 1 td on opponent, control range, and the other guy gets a huge dps reduction... End result, you don't need to run tank, since he can't touch you, and you could grind him with a wet paper towel until his tank runs out of cap and dies... ___ P.S. Post with your main. Mind control and tin hats
shinsushi	Posted - 2007.10.30 17:04:00 - [43] Originally by: Laboratus web drones + 1 td on opponent, control range, and the other guy gets a huge dps reduction... End result, you don't need to run tank, since he can't touch you, and you could grind him with a wet paper towel until his tank runs out of cap and dies... Web drones go how fast again? Oh and they take 25m3 drone space... that means BSes and BCs, no other laser ship can use them. Your buddy demje is quite the troll isn't he? Tracking disruptors? In what mids?
Dzajic Gallente	Posted - 2007.10.30 18:34:00 - [44] Excuse me a bit, but isn't Ammar damage in most cases still rather fine; and the real problem is fitting and powering MWD/web/scram??????
sghscg	Posted - 2007.10.30 19:35:00 - [45] i finally reached 3 mil sp in gunnery just to realize myself how screwed amarr really is. Call me a noob, whatever, if CCP only would give amarr an up-to-par damage out put I will be happy. It's embarrassing, my finance out ranged my Harbie in an Enyo! and I have way better sp in gunnery, that should never happen.
madaluap Gallente Mercenary Forces Exquisite Malevolence	Posted - 2007.10.30 19:53:00 - [46] Originally by: sghscg i finally reached 3 mil sp in gunnery just to realize myself how screwed amarr really is. Call me a noob, whatever, if CCP only would give amarr an up-to-par damage out put I will be happy. It's embarrassing, my finance out ranged my Harbie in an Enyo! and I have way better sp in gunnery, that should never happen. Weird... Beam laser II with longrange crystals should shoot further than 150mm II spike enyo. But what does that matter, you have more guns and more damage than the enyo. Wait untill you finance flies a harpy LOL _________________________________________________ Breetime A killmail!11!1 omgrawr: BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
kickyourpuppy mcgee	Posted - 2007.10.31 03:13:00 - [47] if you cant hit em you can kill him. and fyi I do use t2 beam lasers than you very much
Madla Mafia The Dead Man's Hand	Posted - 2007.10.31 13:20:00 - [48] He does have a point though, Amarr and their lasers = Suck! ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Amarr - getting screwed since 2005.
Kagura Nikon Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.10.31 14:18:00 - [49] No rewwork. Ammar is fine and fun as it is. Only a few ships need to be rebalanced and or armor omnitanks addressed better (by boosting hardeners) If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
shinsushi	Posted - 2007.10.31 17:26:00 - [50] Originally by: Kagura Nikon No rewwork. Ammar is fine and fun as it is. Only a few ships need to be rebalanced and or armor omnitanks addressed better (by boosting hardeners) If by a few ships you mean nearly every ship that uses lasers, I'll agree (yes the abaddon, geddon and harb are fine) ☺☻☺☻☺ SO how do you get me to stop posting? Bump this thread Until devs answer

Pages: 1 2 :: [one page]

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to EVE-Search.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, EVE-Search.com. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.