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BearJews
YOU BETTER
The Ascendancy
23
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Posted - 2012.01.25 21:54:00 -
[31] - Quote
The harpy is amazing.... you can fit huge buffer and huge active tanks with it outputting 250 dps. I fitted an 18k ehp frigate i mean, that's pretty fun. Just gotta try it now :) |
Liang Nuren
Heretic Army
Heretic Nation
689
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Posted - 2012.01.25 22:06:00 -
[32] - Quote
Umega wrote:
The Harpy looks like it might take king of frigs. Still curious to see how one of Liang's handles a Daredevil and Cruor piloted/fit well.
Strictly speaking, the Harpy was *ALWAYS* king of frigs - you just had to have AF5 to make it so. As to how it would handle a DD or Cruor fit... well there's only one way to know for sure. I'd say that if either one of them let me in range or they're close range fit (such as the Cuor relying on neuts instead of webs+range) they're most assuredly dogfood. I've taken more than one close range DD in a pre-buff Harpy.
IMO with either ship the key will be staying out at range and utilizing faction webs to keep me there. I'd probably die eventually to both ships - but on the flip side I think the Harpy has a much wider target selection so I'm fine with losing in certain R/P/S situations.
-Liang
Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?)
Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com
Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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Caleb Seremshur
Crimson Serpent Syndicate
0
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Posted - 2012.01.25 22:13:00 -
[33] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:Quote:It makes me sad that I honestly can't tell if you're trolling, serious, or trolling about something that seriously bothers you  AFs totally need a buff they they totally suck and medium guns instapop them NO MATTER WHAT. You can't even go close range against medium guns because you just get webbed and scrammed and neuted and DEAD INSTAPOP INSTAPOP INSTAPOP. Ahriemann is all talking about how someone brought a pair of BCs into our 5 man AF gang and it was just POP POP POP! AFs are total **** and need another buff because this one just wasn't good enough!!! -Liang
Don't you think the more practical change would be to make webs/scrams/neuts act like turrets and have a tracking speed? Target painters and any kind of 'targeted' module should have a tracking attribute IMO.
Why? Because that way as your ship size increases and you use heavier duty models your capacity to fight smaller ships decreases like it otherwise would with missiles/gun turrets. As you have noted, under the current module system, a ship that would otherwise be unable to target a frigate with main weapons systems can activate a certain module with no penalty against signature radius or target velocity or any real penalty except for the modules range.
In this way a cruiser that intends to fight tacklers needs to decide whether it is countering frigate or cruiser sized ships as opposed to the current way where they can fight both with only a marginal drop in dps against the frigate.
As for your final point, about fighting BC's in AF.. what did you expect..? In reality frigates weren't used to fight dreadnoughts, they were used to funnel the larger ships into choke points.
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Liang Nuren
Heretic Army
Heretic Nation
689
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Posted - 2012.01.25 22:21:00 -
[34] - Quote
Caleb Seremshur wrote:
As for your final point, about fighting BC's in AF.. what did you expect..? In reality frigates weren't used to fight dreadnoughts, they were used to funnel the larger ships into choke points.
I must have missed the memo. :)
-Liang
Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?)
Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com
Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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Lili Lu
151
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Posted - 2012.01.25 22:22:00 -
[35] - Quote
Ah Caleb. I think you need to read more of the thread before hitting quote and post. But I noticed you have no likes.  So I'm gonna like your post.  |
Caleb Seremshur
Crimson Serpent Syndicate
1
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Posted - 2012.01.25 22:34:00 -
[36] - Quote
I have reviewed the rest of the thread and haven't found anything that invalidates my point about giving the given modules a tracking attribute.
They are offensive modules after all, they actually need to 'hit' their target. If they were AOE as their current function suggests then that would be quite different.
As it stands you need to lock the target, be in range and simply activate. Relative velocity notwithstanding. Seems ridiculous for an offensive model to 'instawin' against an opponents core defence especially if that defence was the design intention. |
Liang Nuren
Heretic Army
Heretic Nation
689
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Posted - 2012.01.25 22:58:00 -
[37] - Quote
This sounds nice in theory - especially if you look at it from the frigate's perspective. Unfortunately, it'd obsolete virtually everything other than frigates and I wouldn't be a fan of my disruptor "missing" and my targets warping away.
I am overall not a fan of this.
-Liang
Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?)
Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com
Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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Dark Pangolin
Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse
49
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Posted - 2012.01.25 23:07:00 -
[38] - Quote
As a general question has anyone tried the 75mm rail harpy? that used to be awesome...I can only imagine it has gotten better with the new bonuses...I'll have to fit one. |
Zarnak Wulf
CTRL-Q
222
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Posted - 2012.01.25 23:11:00 -
[39] - Quote
Cuko wrote:Ranked: Edited (Fail typos**)
Close range (under 9,000m)
-
(1) Ishkur (able to engage most anything no matter the set-up)
(2) Vengeance
(3) Enyo
(4) Hawk
(5) Harpy (mirrors Enyo, minus tracking)
(6) Jaguar (everything can be done better by ships above (alot like a Harpy), minus capless weapon system, tracking and superior mobility)
(7) Wolf (alot of assault ships are able to do the same or better and have superior active defence set-ups)
(8) Retribution
Long range (20,000m or more)
-
(1) Retribution
(2) Harpy (May be superior to a Retribution @ range, with superior defences, dual stasis webifier or dual propulsion)
(3) Hawk (standard missile launcher and superior defences)
(4) Jaguar
(5) Wolf
-proxyyyy
It's a little early in the patch to declare clear winners. My gank Wolf can do 300 DPS with a falloff of 12km or 245 DPS with 18km falloff. It also has 8k EHP compared to it's old EHP of 5.9k! Alternatively I can accept a paltry tank of 6.3k EHP and get 15km falloff with faction or 22km falloff with Barrage - DPS staying the same. To put it into context 23km used to be the Vagabond's max falloff range prior to the projectile buff! It is true that I can no longer plunge into another AF and beat down the opponent with a small nuet and superior DPS. I hit them from far - test their defense and offense - and then make a decision if I want to commit. That is traditional Minmatar in a heartbeat.
The Jaguar also can get a 1k alpha with 15km optimal and 18km falloff. Or it can settle for 700ish alpha with 29km optimal and 15km falloff. It will be an excellent kiter. |
DarkAegix
Acetech Systems
841
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Posted - 2012.01.25 23:30:00 -
[40] - Quote
Hooray for the Ishkur and a pre-emptive Gallente nerf! |
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Tanya Powers
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
791
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Posted - 2012.01.26 00:01:00 -
[41] - Quote
@OP
hem, Enyo with light neutrons, active tank and crappy top speed just above 2200m/sec does "just" 370dps ... and has about 6k EHP. With recent buff and 40% range increase your neutrons are hitting stuff up to max 8.5km and 270dps.
All this without fleet bonus, implants, boosters.
Put 75mm gatlings on it and asskick absolutely everything from 0 to 30km and 200dps.
If there's something I would ask for is not ehp but speed. Everything else man it's just perfect. Give me another frig with 370dps and all t1/t2 fit no implants/boosters/fleet bonus that isn't the Daredevil.
Edit: Now if you're trying to rule the world and scaring everyone with your AF's gang you should realise they're not meant for that. Stick to their role in the gang/fleet they're supposed to act and you should be fine. |
Cuko
Deadman W0nderland
7
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Posted - 2012.01.26 01:23:00 -
[42] - Quote
Zarnak Wulf wrote:Cuko wrote:Ranked: Edited (Fail typos**)
Close range (under 9,000m)
-
(1) Ishkur (able to engage most anything no matter the set-up)
(2) Vengeance
(3) Enyo
(4) Hawk
(5) Harpy (mirrors Enyo, minus tracking)
(6) Jaguar (everything can be done better by ships above (alot like a Harpy), minus capless weapon system, tracking and superior mobility)
(7) Wolf (alot of assault ships are able to do the same or better and have superior active defence set-ups)
(8) Retribution
Long range (20,000m or more)
-
(1) Retribution
(2) Harpy (May be superior to a Retribution @ range, with superior defences, dual stasis webifier or dual propulsion)
(3) Hawk (standard missile launcher and superior defences)
(4) Jaguar
(5) Wolf
-proxyyyy It's a little early in the patch to declare clear winners. My gank Wolf can do 300 DPS with a falloff of 12km or 245 DPS with 18km falloff. It also has 8k EHP compared to it's old EHP of 5.9k! Alternatively I can accept a paltry tank of 6.3k EHP and get 15km falloff with faction or 22km falloff with Barrage - DPS staying the same. To put it into context 23km used to be the Vagabond's max falloff range prior to the projectile buff! It is true that I can no longer plunge into another AF and beat down the opponent with a small nuet and superior DPS. I hit them from far - test their defense and offense - and then make a decision if I want to commit. That is traditional Minmatar in a heartbeat. The Jaguar also can get a 1k alpha with 15km optimal and 18km falloff. Or it can settle for 700ish alpha with 29km optimal and 15km falloff. It will be an excellent kiter.
No!
Winners are there periodz... Not to surprised you've fail to understand how these changes would affect the class and how it interacts with other frigates and destroyers.
Wolf has been supplanted close range. Deal with it! While I was one of the first pilots to come on these forums and advocate for the Wolf being one of the best assault frigates (you know, when everyone was saying it was **** and the Jaguar was better). CCP gave the Wolf a swift kick to the nuts.
Not to mention that increase to null ammunition (5 second reload time). Many things will change. Increasing medium null to whatever the value is now (40% optimal*falloff). Won't change much to non-range bonused blaster ships. However, it does fock around with the frigate class greatly. The Jaguar can do 200 damage per second and have projected damage close to a Wolf, with significant tank. Jaguar can pull arty set-ups off alot better than the Wolf can. However, solo. The Harpy does significantly more damage @ longer range, with superior defences. Jaguar can field a serious active defence set-up and has superior mobility.
As far as a Wagabond Wolf. Harpy and Retribution does it ALOT better, in terms of damage.
-proxyyyy |
Zarnak Wulf
CTRL-Q
223
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Posted - 2012.01.26 02:47:00 -
[43] - Quote
So what you are saying is that Minmatar is Eve on hard mode? 'Bout damn time.  |
Kha'Vorn
Fruidian Logic
Visionaries of Iron
71
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Posted - 2012.01.26 03:35:00 -
[44] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:NO DUDE AFs just get INSTAPOPPED1 My harpy just went "boom" when the thrasher TARGETTED ME. And it was just no fair and I think the destoryer buff went too far. They need to boost AFs with like a 50% role bonus to damage and maybe +50% shield and armor and hull or something because AFs are just sooooo baaaddddd....
Obviously the boost hasn't gone far enough so pathetic why does CCP hate Caldari? Have you noticed how ALL the Caldari turret ships just sukc???1
-Liang
Everyone hates Caldari |
Hrett
Quantum Cats Syndicate
35
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Posted - 2012.01.26 07:11:00 -
[45] - Quote
I had a corpie testing a light electron ishkur with 5 hobs against my ishkur tank last night. Now, he was using electrons and hitting my highest resists, and I had a c-type SAR, but he wasnt coming close to breaking my tank until I turned it off for 2 cycles.
Then I docked up and realized I didnt have anything in my new 4th lowslot yet. So, yeah. The tank on these thing is going to be insane. They are going to compete with many cruisers.
If the dps arms race hinted at by the dessie and AF buffs continues, they are going to have to bump up EHP across all ships again... |
Tore Smith
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
8
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Posted - 2012.01.26 09:10:00 -
[46] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:NO DUDE AFs just get INSTAPOPPED1 My harpy just went "boom" when the thrasher TARGETTED ME. And it was just no fair and I think the destoryer buff went too far. They need to boost AFs with like a 50% role bonus to damage and maybe +50% shield and armor and hull or something because AFs are just sooooo baaaddddd....
Obviously the boost hasn't gone far enough so pathetic why does CCP hate Caldari? Have you noticed how ALL the Caldari turret ships just sukc???1
-Liang
now youre trolling, or youre drunk. you tell us. |
A Lunchbox
Basgerin Pirate
14
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Posted - 2012.01.26 16:47:00 -
[47] - Quote
TLDR - race with the fastest ships still doesn't have a t2 frig with a micro that isn't absolute ****.
No, I'm not counting the dram, I never liked that thing anyway (except for catching other drams). |
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