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HARD STEEL
LOW TAX HIGH GLORY
1
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Posted - 2012.01.25 20:05:00 -
[1] - Quote
Is it worth going to the complete max with probe skills?
I'm 4'd out /w 5 in covert ops but I'm not sure what advantage there is to go all the way and get perfect skills /w implants.
Anyone? Is it worth going to 5? |
Rubinia Valeska
Todespropheten
T0DESPR0PHETEN
9
|
Posted - 2012.01.25 20:40:00 -
[2] - Quote
The advantage is scanning speed.
The higher your probe strength the less time you need to nail it to 100%.
I think its worth it but not at every cost.
Meaning I will train other more relevant skills first
before I maximize scanning. |
Geoscape
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
10
|
Posted - 2012.01.25 20:43:00 -
[3] - Quote
For general purpose use, no you won't need rangefinding V or the implants for that matter.
However, if you want to probe down t3 boosters and the odd "unprobeable" tengu mission runner then rangefinding V certainly helps, though you still need 400 mil worth of implants to get the required probe sensor strength of 78.4. |
Tian Nu
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
33
|
Posted - 2012.01.25 20:49:00 -
[4] - Quote
to scan down the maze you need over 100% streinght.
If you are serious about running 0.0 plex yes is worth every SP.
If you dont count scanning in 0.0 no need. |
HARD STEEL
LOW TAX HIGH GLORY
1
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Posted - 2012.01.25 20:52:00 -
[5] - Quote
Thats what I was looking for - if there was a set of locations avail to me if I max out. which = worth it to me, speed is nice too but not critical as it becomes diminishing returns after 4 on that point
thanks everyone for your time |
mxzf
Shovel Bros
387
|
Posted - 2012.01.25 20:55:00 -
[6] - Quote
Astrometrics 5, yes. The others are less so though.
Tian Nu wrote:to scan down the maze you need over 100% streinght.
If you are serious about running 0.0 plex yes is worth every SP.
If you dont count scanning in 0.0 no need.
IIRC the sig bands are the same in all spaces, you shouldn't need more than 80 sig or so (with patience and skill and assuming you have 8 probes) to lock down any sig. More helps a lot and makes it much quicker though. |
Messoroz
AQUILA INC
0ccupational Hazzard
144
|
Posted - 2012.01.25 20:57:00 -
[7] - Quote
mxzf wrote:Astrometrics 5, yes. The others are less so though.
Astrometrics V isn't nearly as useful as Cov ops V or Rangefinding V which directly affect strength. |
mxzf
Shovel Bros
387
|
Posted - 2012.01.25 21:04:00 -
[8] - Quote
Messoroz wrote:mxzf wrote:Astrometrics 5, yes. The others are less so though. Astrometrics V isn't nearly as useful as Cov ops V or Rangefinding V which directly affect strength.
It depends on how you look at it. It lets you use DSPs to filter out lots of sigs and it lets you launch an eighth probe for the more difficult sigs. Depending on what you're scanning for, it will arguably save you much more time than 10% more strength will, especially if you're looking for a certain site. |
XXSketchxx
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
140
|
Posted - 2012.01.25 22:15:00 -
[9] - Quote
Messoroz wrote:mxzf wrote:Astrometrics 5, yes. The others are less so though. Astrometrics V isn't nearly as useful as Cov ops V or Rangefinding V which directly affect strength.
Wrong.
Cov ops 5 is literally a terrible skill to have for a dedicated explorer. Have fun switching ships and losing sites.
Don't say "HURRRRR MY ALT IS IN THE PROBER" because thats dumb too. Know whats better than an alt prober and a site runner? Two all in ones doing sites in 2 different regions simultaneously.
Also what he said about DSP. |
Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings
115
|
Posted - 2012.01.25 22:35:00 -
[10] - Quote
Quote:Cov ops 5 is literally a terrible skill to have for a dedicated explorer. Have fun switching ships and losing sites.
Not every explorer hides behind CONCORD |
XXSketchxx
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
140
|
Posted - 2012.01.25 22:41:00 -
[11] - Quote
Kahega Amielden wrote:Quote:Cov ops 5 is literally a terrible skill to have for a dedicated explorer. Have fun switching ships and losing sites.
Not every explorer hides behind CONCORD
Okay? Still a waste of time and training to use a cov ops ship when an all in one can do the job.
Also, you're an idiot if you think doing Caldari high sec exploration is "hiding behind Concord." Between the a-type small booster and c-type medium booster, it has mods better/on par with quite a few low/null regions. |
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
308
|
Posted - 2012.01.25 22:44:00 -
[12] - Quote
Kahega Amielden wrote:Quote:Cov ops 5 is literally a terrible skill to have for a dedicated explorer. Have fun switching ships and losing sites.
Not every explorer hides behind CONCORD
You've never competed for a site in low? Because I know I have. The fact that your competition might also shoot you just adds to the imperative to scan, run, and gtfo as quickly as possible. |
Tian Nu
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
33
|
Posted - 2012.01.25 23:10:00 -
[13] - Quote
mxzf wrote:Astrometrics 5, yes. The others are less so though. Tian Nu wrote:to scan down the maze you need over 100% streinght.
If you are serious about running 0.0 plex yes is worth every SP.
If you dont count scanning in 0.0 no need. IIRC the sig bands are the same in all spaces, you shouldn't need more than 80 sig or so (with patience and skill and assuming you have 8 probes) to lock down any sig. More helps a lot and makes it much quicker though.
i never used that many probes when i was all lvl 4 i used 5 probes but could not get 100% on the maze always 90%+
whith lvl 5 skills i use only 4 probes now and never miss |
Substantia Nigra
NFI industrial
Revival Of The Talocan Empire
452
|
Posted - 2012.01.25 23:58:00 -
[14] - Quote
Lots of different views so far it seems, but happy to throw my tuppence into the ring. Of course, the utility of maxi scanner skills will depend on what you want to use them for.
I have astro 5 and all others at 4. My scanner alt has all scanning related skills, including skills for T3s, at 5. Most of my scanning work is in w-space, with a little bit also chasing down explorations sites in nullsec / lowsec systems that my w-systems connect to.
IMO:
- Astrometrics 5 is very useful. It lets you use deep space probes (DSPs) and it lets you deploy eight probes at once. DSPs are great for watching / monitoring a system (huge range and 'see' ships like combat probes) when you're doing stuff and exposed to attack. DSPs are also great time-savers when you want to quickly catalogue the contents of a system and decide whether / what to scan in more detail. They can also be useful if you use 'sig size' to triage a system's contents while you're looking for a specific wormhole.
Until recently I did not believe that using eight probes offered much benefit. I watched a video link posted somewhere in these forums and am now a convert. Using eight probes (RSS core) has made a huge difference to my scanning speeds ... and I was already a fairly quick and able scanner. (I'll try find that video link and edit-post it here)
- other scanning-related skills. Moving from astrometrics5-and-all-4s-otherwise to all-5s doesn't allow you to do anything new ... it just makes everything scanning-related faster and easier. With astrometrics5-and-all-4s-otherwise you can resolve the toughest little signatures, it will just take you a little longer than (say) my perfect-scanner alt. I can scan down everything I ever need to, but it's quite a bit quicker when I use my scanner-guy.
- Other, non-skillbook, factors. Experience, ship, equipment, and implants also influence how easily you can scan sites.
We can build and sell pretty much every ship. Check my bio for details. Our pirate epic arc completion packages really are very good: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=12973&find=unread |
mxzf
Shovel Bros
387
|
Posted - 2012.01.26 00:00:00 -
[15] - Quote
Tian Nu wrote:mxzf wrote:Astrometrics 5, yes. The others are less so though. Tian Nu wrote:to scan down the maze you need over 100% streinght.
If you are serious about running 0.0 plex yes is worth every SP.
If you dont count scanning in 0.0 no need. IIRC the sig bands are the same in all spaces, you shouldn't need more than 80 sig or so (with patience and skill and assuming you have 8 probes) to lock down any sig. More helps a lot and makes it much quicker though. i never used that many probes when i was all lvl 4 i used 5 probes but could not get 100% on the maze always 90%+ whith lvl 5 skills i use only 4 probes now and never miss
So you chose to spend 4+ weeks training to avoid carrying/launching a couple extra probes. Ok, good for you I guess *shrug*. But if you'd just launched a couple more probes you could have locked down the site easily.
My point is that the 50-55d or so spent on Rangefinding and Covert Ops 5 can be FAR better spent in training to complete the sites quicker than min-maxing the strength of the probes. If someone feels like training the skills because they like all 5s, that's good for them, but you certainly don't need them to do well (or to find sigs, or even to find all sigs). |
XXSketchxx
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
140
|
Posted - 2012.01.26 04:05:00 -
[16] - Quote
Rangefinding 5 is a good pick because it helps you move away from relying on a cov ops to probe. Between rf4, sisters launcher and probes, rigs and pph-1, you can easily find sites without a cov ops. After that, astro 5 should be priority with rf5 after that. |
Mnemosyne Gloob
Teshnology Inc.
Stealth Wear Inc.
36
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Posted - 2012.01.26 08:56:00 -
[17] - Quote
Yeah on unbonused ships you can even use the rigslots for other stuff with good equipment and rangefinding 5. Now if you don't explore much, it's debateable if it would be worth to train it. |
St Mio
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
423
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Posted - 2012.01.26 09:54:00 -
[18] - Quote
Astrometrics V over Covops V any day, but then again I'm biased :D |
Jack Miton
Lapse Of Sanity
Narwhals Ate My Duck
113
|
Posted - 2012.01.26 11:33:00 -
[19] - Quote
Yes, worth it.
|
Tian Nu
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
35
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Posted - 2012.01.26 11:47:00 -
[20] - Quote
mxzf wrote:
So you chose to spend 4+ weeks training to avoid carrying/launching a couple extra probes. Ok, good for you I guess *shrug*. But if you'd just launched a couple more probes you could have locked down the site easily.
My point is that the 50-55d or so spent on Rangefinding and Covert Ops 5 can be FAR better spent in training to complete the sites quicker than min-maxing the strength of the probes. If someone feels like training the skills because they like all 5s, that's good for them, but you certainly don't need them to do well (or to find sigs, or even to find all sigs).
you will do it one day, at some point there will be nothing left to train... after 70+ mill SP i start trainning all skills to lvl 5 now started from botom categhorie up, or i can focus on capital but i never fly them so there is no rly point on trainning those to lvl 5.
Father O'Malley about Darius III begging for whelp:
GÇ£Hows that working out for ya ? I make it 02:21 and all I see is you begging Riverini to get numbers and trying to recruit from the incursion public channel.GÇ¥ |
Hathrul
DEEP-SPACE CO-OP LTD
Narwhals Ate My Duck
36
|
Posted - 2012.01.26 12:23:00 -
[21] - Quote
just depends on how much you scan i suppose. if you scan down combat plexes i suppose it isnt worth the time since you spend most time on clearing those anyway.
if you live in wormhole space, in a high class wormhole and sometimes have to scan 8 chains to get a connection to empire, you will want any improvement you can get. |
5nipe
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
21
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Posted - 2012.01.26 12:50:00 -
[22] - Quote
If we are talking PvE content all lvl 4 is enought for most cases and I would rather invest in Cop ops lvl 5 if you don't have it already.
Therefore, as it stated above already, astro lvl 5 allows you to use DSP for sigs strength filtering, and it is very usefull.
Here is excellent written by St Mio.
Yet another reason to train Astro lvl 5 is T2 prob launchers available now.
Some advanced scanning techniques allow you to reduce your scanning significantly, especially in systems with many signatures, in low sec in particular, with a lot of WHs. Drop as many probes as your Astro skill allows, make them 4AU in appropriate formation and move this cluster around each planet in the system. If you have max skills and best gear (including imps), you will be surprised how many signatures you will get to 25% straight away and make your decision to scan them further or not.
If we are talking PvP everything means. Every single skill point. And better your scanning gear and your scanning experience, better chances you have to nail somebody down.
Just one example. What typically people check on direct scan? Sisters core (if they run plex) and combat probes. Not many people, even seasoned pvp freaks know that you can scan ships with DSP. And if you have really god skills and gear you can get quiet a few ships to 100% with DSP. If not, it would typically require last "shot" with combat, and in this case every single second matter, if you don't want to spook the guy. |
Domin Ique
Team Pizza
Viro Mors Non Est
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.26 15:32:00 -
[23] - Quote
I'll just leave this here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8n8KamI0Ag |
HARD STEEL
LOW TAX HIGH GLORY
1
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Posted - 2012.01.26 15:53:00 -
[24] - Quote
Theres been a lot of great things added here.. but this.. this is incredible, what a great technique - thanks for sharing!
|
5nipe
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
21
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Posted - 2012.01.26 17:54:00 -
[25] - Quote
Domin Ique wrote:I'll just leave this here
"Probing 24 sigs in 11 minutes". I said wow! I definitely want to watch it. 30 sec per signature. That's rock!.
Therefore, the technique you use is very effective for IDENTIFYING types (read 25%) of clustered signatures, especially in WH, and that is exactly what you did. Just try to scan ALL of them to 100% and it would not be such impressive ratio anymore.
I have tried something similar in low sec with 6-7 sigs before. Honestly, not as affective as it can looks like when you need to scan mostly everything to 75%, and even few to 100%.
But anyway, cool video and good tip for WH exploration. |
Hav0cide
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Northern Coalition.
6
|
Posted - 2012.01.26 18:17:00 -
[26] - Quote
My skills are all at LVL4 except astrometrics at LVL5 and have no problems at all scanning down all complexes. I use implants as well as I can just jump out of the clone if I dont need them and jump back in when I do.
Using a T3 ship with the scanning subsystem I find provides a better scan strength than using a frigate.
I deffinately won't waste time training them to 5 when I can scan everything as it is.
Scan strength = 105.
Implants used = 6% incease bonus full set. |
Jack Miton
Lapse Of Sanity
Narwhals Ate My Duck
113
|
Posted - 2012.01.26 20:47:00 -
[27] - Quote
oo, i'm famous
If you want to BM all the sigs, just use 0.5 AU probes in the middle rather than 1 AU probes.
You will get a few more bounces on harder sigs but it won't take much longer.
Not really sure why you need to BM every sig in a random WH but that's really up to you.
For reference, the probe strength on that prober at the time was 136, now 143 with the recent patch, all skills at 5, mid range prospector implants.
Minimum skills you need to use that technique well is astro 5, covops 4, astro support at 4, this will get you around 117 probe strength.
Obviously takes longer at 4s.
My recommended order of getting probing skills to 5 is covops, pinpointing, rangefinding, acquisition. |
mxzf
Shovel Bros
391
|
Posted - 2012.01.26 20:57:00 -
[28] - Quote
Hav0cide wrote:Using a T3 ship with the scanning subsystem I find provides a better scan strength than using a frigate.
Actually, they provide the same bonus when maxed (50% bonus each at lvl 5), but Covert Ops 5 takes two weeks to train, rather than 3-5d that (racial) Electronic Systems 5 takes. Meaning that it takes much less time to max out probing in the T3 than the CovOps. |
Substantia Nigra
NFI industrial
Revival Of The Talocan Empire
452
|
Posted - 2012.01.26 21:23:00 -
[29] - Quote
LOL!
Thanks Domin, that the vid I mentioned in my earlier posting in this thread.
Jack, whatever I may think of some of your other postings I have found that to be one superb video clip. I think I mentioned in another thread that it's the single most useful scanning tip I have found in eve. As a pretty good and pretty fast scanner (or so I thought) that clip changed my scanning methods altogether. Thanks.
Kudos to you jack.
We can build and sell pretty much every ship. Check my bio for details. Our pirate epic arc completion packages really are very good: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=12973&find=unread |
Jack Miton
Lapse Of Sanity
Narwhals Ate My Duck
113
|
Posted - 2012.01.26 23:46:00 -
[30] - Quote
mxzf wrote:Hav0cide wrote:Using a T3 ship with the scanning subsystem I find provides a better scan strength than using a frigate. Actually, they provide the same bonus when maxed (50% bonus each at lvl 5), but Covert Ops 5 takes two weeks to train, rather than 3-5d that (racial) Electronic Systems 5 takes. Meaning that it takes much less time to max out probing in the T3 than the CovOps.
hardly anyone is going to put 2x gravity capacitor rigs on a T3 which will result in a lower scan strength.
not to mention that scanning t3s are an excellent way to end up in highsec the fisrt time you run into a ceptor on a wh. |
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