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Cailais
Amarr
VITOC
Fang Alliance
   |
Posted - 2007.10.24 16:44:00 -
[1]
I have been asked by Pluton Hazmat to produce a new edit here of some of my ideas on Low Sec that I placed in 'General Discussion'.
This will be a long post and more detailed than the origional - if you're of the tl;dr inclination then please see the link under my sig for a shorter synopsis.
You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious.
Low Sec should be a haven for the criminal, the chancer and risk taker. An area of EVE populated by the criminal, the smuggler or the drug pusher. It is not a gentle place appealing to all but the slum of New Eden where detritus gathers and decay abounds.
But there should be temptations, risks worth taking and ill gotten gains to be made in Low Sec.
However everything you can find in Low Sec, you can find in Empire, or 0.0 and potentially with far fewer risks - so why would anyone dwell in or even visit Low Sec?
The Black Market.
The Low Sec Black Market operates seperately to the typical Empire Market. It deals in illegal, contraband goods whose sale is prohibited in High Sec space.
Only contraband goods can be sold or purchased on the Black Market.
The Black Market 'interface' can be found across Low Sec space occasionaly at Functioning Stations, and more often at 'Ruined' Stations (see below). 0.4 systems would offer a mix of both regular Markets and Black Markets, as the Sec level drops so the regular Market becomes less common -with 0.1 systems having only Black Market vendors.
Contraband Goods on the Black Market.
These are goods that you cannot place on the regular market, indeed even transporting them in your hold into High Sec could result in a sec status hit if you are detected by CONCORD.
Contraband Goods would include;
Tech III components, and modules.
Tech III would offer T1 characteristics (in terms of attributes) but with increased flexibility. Examples of such modules might include 'combi' weapons, double weapon fitting of a base T1 module-
"Combi 125mm Gattling Autocannon / Sm Neutralizer".
A weapon like this applies both of the characteristics of a small 125mm auto-cannon and a small neutralizer into one module slot. (For example purposes only)
Illegal Combat Boosters
Various strains and strengths of the current Combat Boosters (the more potent being imported in from 0.0).
Prohibited Accelerants
Like Combat booster in that they are consumed drugs that provide a 'boost' to attributes, however with no initial side effects. The side effects (negative penalities) are applied after the Accelerant has worn off, and last for an extended period of time unless another 'hit' of Accelerant is consumed (effectively addictive).
In addition the Black Market would facilitate trade in a wide assortment of illegal 'npc' items (from missions such as DNA, Tags and the like) and reward items such as 'Contraband Implants' that increase the effects of boosters.
The Black Market is also the interface for more murderous intentions namely that of Assasination Contracts. These contracts allow for what in effect is a single player 'war dec' or 'trade of kill rights' at a high price. The system would be 'blind' meaning the 'seller' and 'target' are hidden. The application of such Assasination Contracts are limited by Low Sec Constellation, so its entirley feasible that a target could slip away into Empire.
So where can the Black Market be found?
Continued....(please hold forth on replying)
C. |
Cailais
Amarr
VITOC
Fang Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.10.24 16:44:00 -
[2]
I have been asked by Pluton Hazmat to produce a new edit here of some of my ideas on Low Sec that I placed in 'General Discussion'.
This will be a long post and more detailed than the origional - if you're of the tl;dr inclination then please see the link under my sig for a shorter synopsis.
You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious.
Low Sec should be a haven for the criminal, the chancer and risk taker. An area of EVE populated by the criminal, the smuggler or the drug pusher. It is not a gentle place appealing to all but the slum of New Eden where detritus gathers and decay abounds.
But there should be temptations, risks worth taking and ill gotten gains to be made in Low Sec.
However everything you can find in Low Sec, you can find in Empire, or 0.0 and potentially with far fewer risks - so why would anyone dwell in or even visit Low Sec?
The Black Market.
The Low Sec Black Market operates seperately to the typical Empire Market. It deals in illegal, contraband goods whose sale is prohibited in High Sec space.
Only contraband goods can be sold or purchased on the Black Market.
The Black Market 'interface' can be found across Low Sec space occasionaly at Functioning Stations, and more often at 'Ruined' Stations (see below). 0.4 systems would offer a mix of both regular Markets and Black Markets, as the Sec level drops so the regular Market becomes less common -with 0.1 systems having only Black Market vendors.
Contraband Goods on the Black Market.
These are goods that you cannot place on the regular market, indeed even transporting them in your hold into High Sec could result in a sec status hit if you are detected by CONCORD.
Contraband Goods would include;
Tech III components, and modules.
Tech III would offer T1 characteristics (in terms of attributes) but with increased flexibility. Examples of such modules might include 'combi' weapons, double weapon fitting of a base T1 module-
"Combi 125mm Gattling Autocannon / Sm Neutralizer".
A weapon like this applies both of the characteristics of a small 125mm auto-cannon and a small neutralizer into one module slot. (For example purposes only)
Illegal Combat Boosters
Various strains and strengths of the current Combat Boosters (the more potent being imported in from 0.0).
Prohibited Accelerants
Like Combat booster in that they are consumed drugs that provide a 'boost' to attributes, however with no initial side effects. The side effects (negative penalities) are applied after the Accelerant has worn off, and last for an extended period of time unless another 'hit' of Accelerant is consumed (effectively addictive).
In addition the Black Market would facilitate trade in a wide assortment of illegal 'npc' items (from missions such as DNA, Tags and the like) and reward items such as 'Contraband Implants' that increase the effects of boosters.
The Black Market is also the interface for more murderous intentions namely that of Assasination Contracts. These contracts allow for what in effect is a single player 'war dec' or 'trade of kill rights' at a high price. The system would be 'blind' meaning the 'seller' and 'target' are hidden. The application of such Assasination Contracts are limited by Low Sec Constellation, so its entirley feasible that a target could slip away into Empire.
So where can the Black Market be found?
Continued....(please hold forth on replying)
C. |
Cailais
Amarr
VITOC
Fang Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.10.24 16:45:00 -
[3]
resv |
Cailais
Amarr
VITOC
Fang Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.10.24 16:45:00 -
[4]
resv |
Cailais
Amarr
VITOC
Fang Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.10.24 16:45:00 -
[5]
resv |
Cailais
Amarr
VITOC
Fang Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.10.24 16:45:00 -
[6]
resv |
Platime
|
Posted - 2007.10.24 18:48:00 -
[7]
I Like this.... worth pursuing as it gives a bit more depth to 0.0/low sec.... well done.
|
Hamfast
Gallente
|
Posted - 2007.10.24 21:20:00 -
[8]
First off, thanks for the honorable mention :-)
I wanted to expand on some of the ideas related to the Refuge and Ruined stations and their agents...
It seems to me that there could be several flavors of R&R Stations, some are neutral in respect to factions, but partisan in relation to Concord and only allow those with a negative security standing to "Dock"... pilots with a positive security standing would not only be unwelcome, but perhaps fired upon by the station defenses... Agents in these stations would be more generic criminals (as described by the OP)
The other flavors of R&R stations are Faction related, within the current game, there are a number of factions, each has opposing factions and pirate factions, some are supported, some opposed...
As the Security of a system drops (starting as high as .6) has a chance of a "Hidden Faction Ruined Station"(FRS), that station is run by a faction opposing the faction that owns that system (Pirate or Empire) so if you are in a system controlled by the Serpintis, a FRS would be controlled by the Gallente... these FRS would conform with the original Ruined Stations, except access would be based on your standing with the owning faction... Agents at the FRS would give missions that would grant faction standing bonuses and be aimed at disrupting the faction that owns the system/regions.
The idea of traveling into hostile space to help the Gallente Empire finally put an end to the vile Serpentis threat... or perhaps destabilizes the Caldari or Amarr empires in some contested regions (From the point of view of a Gallente Pilot)... you really want to support SoE, go find a FRS they run and help them.
--------*****--------
It takes 43 muscles to frown and 17 to smile, but it doesn't take any to just sit there with a dumb look on your face.
|
Cailais
Amarr
VITOC
Fang Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.10.24 21:54:00 -
[9]
Some interesting ideas Hamfast.
Another that just occured to me is that during Faction Wars Refuges can be 'swayed' in terms of loyalty depending upon the success (or otherwise) of a given Faction. While you wouldnt be forceably ejected from a Refuge if you supported its opposing Faction, you might not be able to redock there.
Whats really interesting (well to me at any rate) about new station types is the possibilities they could create.
Ultimately Faction Warfare, if it ever occurs, is likely to be focused at least at first on the Four main races. But we could easily see Low Sec as areas of dispute. Perhaps Faction War targets are only permited in Low Sec intially? Could .5 systems be 'ruined' as a result of a failing war dropping to .4 as a Faction looses its grip?
C.
- sig designer - eve mail
Low Sec Idea |
Frenzei
Gallente
Brotherhood of Wolves
|
Posted - 2007.10.25 08:28:00 -
[10]
Recently been to lowsec a bit, didnt look like the lowsec i imagined...
Good ideas, let me throw my ideas in here.
Shady Dealers
These live in R&R stations, doing shady deals(Contraband, perhaps the access point to the black market?).
They give out the occasional mission related to the constellation or their security, like:
Get the eyes off me!
Concord have put some eyes on me because of *Insert shady detail here*. I need their "eyes" wiped out, i know that the person doing the looking and the guy giving the information on is going to meet in *Nearby 0.4Sec system* at these coordinates(BM). Do not let them escape, and take no survivors, if there are any reports, please bring them back to me.
Will of course lower sec standing, reward along some kind of expensive, useful contraband? Think of it like lowsec storyline missions?
This is definitely a good idea(Cailais idea, that is, my own need some discussion).
Two thumbs up so far!
Newbie, not n00b.
Mining, Reprossecing and Producing. |
Cailais
Amarr
VITOC
Fang Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.10.25 15:08:00 -
[11]
 Originally by: Frenzei
Recently been to lowsec a bit, didnt look like the lowsec i imagined...
Good ideas, let me throw my ideas in here.
Shady Dealers
These live in R&R stations, doing shady deals(Contraband, perhaps the access point to the black market?).
They give out the occasional mission related to the constellation or their security, like:
Get the eyes off me!
Concord have put some eyes on me because of *Insert shady detail here*. I need their "eyes" wiped out, i know that the person doing the looking and the guy giving the information on is going to meet in *Nearby 0.4Sec system* at these coordinates(BM). Do not let them escape, and take no survivors, if there are any reports, please bring them back to me.
Will of course lower sec standing, reward along some kind of expensive, useful contraband? Think of it like lowsec storyline missions?
This is definitely a good idea(Cailais idea, that is, my own need some discussion).
Two thumbs up so far!
Thx Frenzei. One aspect regarding missions in Low Sec is the chance to branch rewards. What? Well its like this -
Mission Start - Go here, do that, pick up this give it to him.
On pick up of said object you get contacted by a 3rd party - dont give it to him, give it to her.
Depending upon who you turn the object in to defines the reward you get (closing both branches in the process) and subsequently sways your standings accordingly. Neat eh? Or do missions already do that, surely they already do that? 
C.
- sig designer - eve mail
Low Sec Idea |
Frenzei
Gallente
Brotherhood of Wolves
|
Posted - 2007.10.25 15:55:00 -
[12]
As far as i know, no mission does. I do not know of COSMOS missions though, they might have something like this...
Suggest though, that the mission will also lower your sec rating...
Newbie, not n00b.
Mining, Reprossecing and Producing. |
Krist Valentine
Amarr
Veto. Academy
Veto Corp
|
Posted - 2007.10.25 17:06:00 -
[13]
/signed.
Great ideas mate :]
RE: Pilgrim / Curse
|
Cailais
Amarr
VITOC
Fang Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.10.25 22:09:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Frenzei
As far as i know, no mission does. I do not know of COSMOS missions though, they might have something like this...
Suggest though, that the mission will also lower your sec rating...
Im pretty suprised by that Id have though branched missions would be common place.
Yep the idea of missions dropping your sec status is a really nice one.
C.
- sig designer - eve mail
Low Sec Idea |
Valerax Orion
Fourth Circle
Total Comfort
|
Posted - 2007.10.25 22:18:00 -
[15]
I'm actually impressed to see a well thought out idea on the forums nice.
/signed.
|
Tobias Sjodin
Ore Mongers
R0ADKILL
|
Posted - 2007.10.25 22:31:00 -
[16]
There have been many ideas to improve low-sec, and piracy. In fact, so many good ideas it's almost sad to see the /ignore from CCP. It's the same type of /ignore they've expressed for Amarr. I'd hate to be an Amarr pirate, that must be the worst kind of rejection there is in this game. xD
- Recruitment open again-
|
Cailais
Amarr
VITOC
Fang Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.10.25 23:41:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Tobias Sjodin
There have been many ideas to improve low-sec, and piracy. In fact, so many good ideas it's almost sad to see the /ignore from CCP. It's the same type of /ignore they've expressed for Amarr. I'd hate to be an Amarr pirate, that must be the worst kind of rejection there is in this game. xD
  OP.
C.
- sig designer - eve mail
Low Sec Idea |
Pluton Hazmat
Momentum.
The Reckoning.
|
Posted - 2007.10.27 11:00:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Pluton Hazmat on 27/10/2007 11:00:13
Originally by: Tobias Sjodin
There have been many ideas to improve low-sec, and piracy. In fact, so many good ideas it's almost sad to see the /ignore from CCP. It's the same type of /ignore they've expressed for Amarr. I'd hate to be an Amarr pirate, that must be the worst kind of rejection there is in this game. xD
Thats hilarious, just as I was considering getting an Amarr character specifically for pirating. You can't say I don't like a challenge hey
|
Jurgen Cartis
Caldari
Interstellar Corporation of Exploration
|
Posted - 2007.10.27 11:54:00 -
[19]
I love the concept of "an empire in retreat". Lowsec should have small islands the empires have some strong presence in (the lowsec mission hubs) and as you get farther from there, fewer 'normal' stations and more Ruined stations and Refugee stations. I would expect Caldari lowsec to have some forward operating bases for the Navy, as well as some hidden listening posts and raiding bases. By the same token, I would expect the Gallente and the Guristas to have spy bases, listening posts, and some smaller hidden bases in Caldari lowsec, for early warning and just to raid them.
Also, mmm... Black Market...
--------------------
ICE Blueprint Sales
FIRST!! -Yipsilanti
Pfft. Never such a thing as a "last chance". ;) -Rauth |
Cailais
Amarr
VITOC
Fang Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.10.27 19:21:00 -
[20]
Thanks Jurgen, I hadnt considered the Map at all up until this point but youve got some interesting ideas there. Would the new type of station appear on the universe map or would they all remain hidden?
Id also like to hear from those who dislike these ideas. If it would negatively effect your experience of Eve and how??
C.
- sig designer - eve mail
Low Sec Idea |
Jurgen Cartis
Caldari
Interstellar Corporation of Exploration
|
Posted - 2007.10.29 07:18:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Cailais
Thanks Jurgen, I hadnt considered the Map at all up until this point but youve got some interesting ideas there. Would the new type of station appear on the universe map or would they all remain hidden?
Id also like to hear from those who dislike these ideas. If it would negatively effect your experience of Eve and how??
C.
The big 'regular' stations would definitely all be on the map. It's hard to hide a major naval base. The naval bases would not have as much of the black market, run down flavor as the other stations, though. They aren't inspection ready like the ones up in Amarr Prime are, but they're definitely combat ready. Not sure about your 'Ruined' and 'Refugee' stations, perhaps they would only show on the map in systems you've personally been to.
The little listening posts and raid bases are definitely NOT on the map. They are small, probably mobile, and their owners deny knowledge of their existence.
--------------------
ICE Blueprint Sales
FIRST!! -Yipsilanti
Pfft. Never such a thing as a "last chance". ;) -Rauth |
ThrudUK
Caldari
The Cursed Navy
|
Posted - 2007.10.29 11:24:00 -
[22]
/Signed
I like your thinking...:)
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JetJon
|
Posted - 2008.01.17 04:18:00 -
[23]
I like the idea as it is now, I had some objections when reading your post in GD, but that is cleared up on reading this post.
One suggestion I had though is the idea of the fog of war, this idea spans beyond just LowSec into both HighSec and 0.0à keep in mind that I found myself instantly in a HighSec, corp that hunted LowSec pirates, and then joined into a large alliance, and am now hopping about in 0.0 as the wars there destroy alliances.
Anyway, onto the point.
I have always had issue with the map and local chat in regards to gate camps and the like; everyone knows there are limited ôpipesö into ôempireö space. My issue is, itÆs practically impossible to surprise someone with a camp if they check the map. Alliances use scouts to check ahead for new camps or other issues, but those scouts simply enter a system check local and leave if itÆs full of hostiles. Not very realistic if you ask me.
I propose that, in empire space alliances will have the ability to place ôCom Relay Satellitesö these items should not be too overly expensive, as they are destructible, but required to be placed for com systems reliability. Whether to give each a specific range (requiring more than one for all or just the larger systems) or making them one size fits all needs thought. With out these satellites coms would be limited to gang and corp/alliance information sharing. That is, only other ships within sight of a friendly or fleet member appears in local.
This idea would extend to LowSec, allowing everyone to benefit from grouping up to overcome the disadvantages of the less than ideal information network due to the ôEmpire in retreatö
DonÆt confuse me with one who is greedy in 0.0, this system would not only hide surprise gate camps from the incoming fleets, it would hide the presence of scouts for said fleets making covert ops more useful, as well as making even the defensive camps need scouts.
For the total lack of Sec, and the Communications Arrays (better name?) a time based fade on the presence of non fleet/corp members would be instituted, perhaps getting longer in duration the higher the sec.
I think this would add to the depth of play both in 0.0 and LowSec, and I really hope my thoughts were clear enough for everyone to understand, I do tend to be incoherent.
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LaughingManic
|
Posted - 2008.02.10 23:27:00 -
[24]
I have to say these seem to be some very well thought out ideas. As it stand the only real difference you can see in low sec systems (In regards to empire control over it) is less sentry guns. These ideas would add a whole new level of ambiance to low sec systems, even if you were just passing trough.
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DasNara Aethelwulf
Blackwater Syndicate
VENOM Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.02.11 03:36:00 -
[25]
Edited by: DasNara Aethelwulf on 11/02/2008 03:39:22
Edited by: DasNara Aethelwulf on 11/02/2008 03:37:01
First, I want to say with the others that this is one of the best ideas that I have read on the idea forums; the other being Tzesaeia's on Sovereignity in this section of the forms. The first thing that I thought of when I read the part about the fog of war is the ideas that I had about an active "radar", this would really produce a need for it....
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=192517&page=17
hereÆs the link for the idea, it's down towards the end of page. I was hoping that a group of people that came up with this could provide ideas for the sensors that I was proposing.
Now, a little criticism, for the last year and a half the folks in Iceland have been trying to get players out of High Sec. Developers spend countless hours coming up with interesting adventures for us in 0.0, these projects become their babies and they understandably will become protective of them. This idea would put a pretty big wall between 0.0 and High Sec. So, I would like for this idea to get there attention so how to do that. Now that the idea has been put down ôon paperö we now have to think of ways to sell it, you have to start to develop the idea more so that CCP feels comfortable that it will not be a way for corporations to block travel and or damage the economy. The easiest is that a lot of the players that lean more toward piracy would probably volunteer to move to this MK II low sec anyway, but, how to get others there, the first realization is that there would be no more solo mining of this Caribbean of Eve. You, as a miner would have to go in there with an armed escort or have the permission of the group that ôownsö the system. Is this a good effect or a bad one? But what about the PvP, well, there are some corporations in this game that have the unofficial role of strapping on a gun and a fake badge and doing a little anti-piracy. These corporations that generally get the derogatory term of Carebears could get a corporation mission. The piracy corperation that was causing the most trouble in certain part of what you called bandit country would get a ôwar dec.ö upon acceptance of the mission by the carebears, which should tie into your idea about feudal warfare (should they get to control the area after the mission is over???). These ôlawmenö could then go into that part of space and look for groups of pirates that would be red flagged. So that will bring that group into Low Sec.
The big thing to remember is that there will still be a need, in the minds of CCP, to have certain corridors for high sec to null sec travel. If they are right, there is a necessity for the minerals that are in null sec, they may feel that the economy would suffer or collapse if this wall was to be built. I would propose that any Low Sec surrounded by Factions could get this MKII treatment, and then maybe follow that up by Low Sec that is near a Faction Cartels, were you thinking of this as all of Low Sec? Or, would a story line need to be made to fill in where this would occur?
I have to say though; these ideas are an excellent way for small corporations to get their feet wet at controlling a system and learn to run a POS; if itÆs in an area that they could be built in or just staking out a claim on a system and having to defend it. I really foresee that there would be major trading hubs being generated because those that go out into 0.0 generally loathe having to go back into High Sec, great ideas guys, I really hope that you folks at CCP are reading this and take note, I for one will try to get my corporation to post on this thread so that they do notice it.
My left is in retreat, my center is giving way; situation excellent, I attack - Joffe 1916 |
Knoppaz
Rens Nursing Home
|
Posted - 2008.02.11 10:53:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Cailais
lots of cool ideas
..you get one shiny big /SIGNED from me
|
Commoner
Caldari
Emergent Chaos
Bedlam Consortium
|
Posted - 2008.02.11 11:18:00 -
[27]
Although i do not agree with all your suggestions, i think it's a step in the right direction to make Low-sec diffrent from both high-sec and 0.0.
The worst pvp'er in EVE :
|
Lil'Red Ridin'Hood
Snake Assault
|
Posted - 2008.02.11 12:14:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Lil''Red Ridin''Hood on 11/02/2008 12:18:06
Although I do like low-sec as it currently is, I believe I'd like this version of low-sec even more.
Great ideas. Got my support.
Edit: I am sceptical whether the changes to local can be implemented feasibly. So far local is absurdly easy/robust: Someone enters, add to list. Someone leaves, remove. Having range-checks, modifiers, maybe even skill adjusted ranges would require quite a bit of extra CPU power for every single player in a system with regards to their relative position to all other players. Quite a problem regarding computational complexity and algorithmic stability if you ask me. But there should be a few clever heads in CCP that are able to comment on that.
|
NightKhaos
Gallente
Khaos Wielders
|
Posted - 2008.02.11 14:21:00 -
[29]
I like. /signed.
Reshape EVE for the future! Sell the 0.0 gates to player owned corps, and encourage an open ended universe. |
Stephannus Calimben
mUfFiN fAcToRy
Sex Panthers
|
Posted - 2008.02.11 20:49:00 -
[30]
i definately love the black market idea. creating a dangerous yet profitable market on the margins of civilized society would create an allure to low-sec that it doesn't currently have. theres a few more things i can think of though
why are low-sec rats so worthless? you'd think that on the cusp of empire the pirate factions would be able to get a stronger foothold, and that the lvl 4 missions full of tough BS rats would be here not in high sec?
what if all higher level missions were moved to low-security missions, where outlaws and pirates would be more likely to be found and hunted. However agents wouldnt be sending their most valuable mercenaries (pve'ers) into this space to be chorn up into mulch.
-> missions should therefore be moved to an area closer to the lawlessness of low sec but with some NPC protection against pirates
basicaly, a 'mid-sec' that has been proposed before, with no concord presence and some degree of faction-police that could patrol gates/stations to punish aggressors but wouldn't insta-aggro outlaws.
perhaps the sale of pirate-faction modified equipment (faction/officer/deadspace loot) could be moved to this black market where it would be more easily navigated/bought but with a different level of risk. if these stations were police patrolled mid sec, this would be mitigated somewhat but would draw those pesky high-level mission runners out of highsec where they dont belong.
I know coming from a pirate this seems like a cheap ploy to draw more targets into range of my guns, but with the current level of risk-less reward there isn't a reasonable chance that those missioners will be draw n out of high sec. we have to move some of their activities to low sec with some safety compromises and a higher payout if we want them to move at all. just adding more stuff to low-sec will just increase the many benefits of non-high-sec that they already ignore
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DasNara Aethelwulf
Blackwater Syndicate
VENOM Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.02.20 01:59:00 -
[31]
I really like this idea, so I'm going to keep bumping this every once in a while till CCP tells me to stop.
My left is in retreat, my center is giving way; situation excellent, I attack - Joffe 1916 |
MezX
|
Posted - 2008.02.20 05:44:00 -
[32]
very nice
/signed.
|
Cailais
Amarr
VITOC
|
Posted - 2008.02.20 11:18:00 -
[33]
Originally by: DasNara Aethelwulf
I really like this idea, so I'm going to keep bumping this every once in a while till CCP tells me to stop.
Heh, I thought this thread had died to the 90 day rule .
CCP have in fact noticed this - if you check my link which has the idea in a more basic form on the general discussions forum you'll see CCP Atropos has responded and has (I hope) forwarded it on to the game design department.
In this thread Ive added more detail (at another players request) so that those who are really interested can pick it apart and provide more ideas in a better context.
C.
Improved Low Sec Idea!! |
El Mauru
Amarr
Nexus Analytics
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
|
Posted - 2008.02.20 12:41:00 -
[34]
I like this. esp. the fog of war and station ideas. Not sure about the t-3-stuff.
-
 |
Morcam
|
Posted - 2008.02.20 14:50:00 -
[35]
Why not add in random Concord patrols to lowsec? They would only go 1-2 jumps from empire, but would break gatecamps where they go. New players wouldn't have to worry about getting obliterated, but pirates could still pirate. They would simply have to look around to find players, not wait for them at gates. (More people in lowsec ftw)
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Cailais
Amarr
VITOC
|
Posted - 2008.02.20 17:48:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Morcam
Why not add in random Concord patrols to lowsec? They would only go 1-2 jumps from empire, but would break gatecamps where they go. New players wouldn't have to worry about getting obliterated, but pirates could still pirate. They would simply have to look around to find players, not wait for them at gates. (More people in lowsec ftw)
CONCORD is often seen as a 'deux ex machina' solution, or in other words 'I cant do it, so I expect the game to provide a solution for me'.
Whilst that might sound a bit of a harsh criticism what is needed is a process whereby Players can effectively 'police' low sec themselves. My prefered option in this regard is that the more a corporation invests in a systems infrastructure, the greater freedom that corp is allowed with respect to security in that system.
For example if Corp A 'renovates' a ruined station by adding a laboratory (for example) that is accesible to all, then that corps 'soveriegnty' of the system increases - achieve a high enough rating and that corp might be treated as 'blue' by sentry guns within that specific system.
Such a process could equally benefit the 'pirate corp' but then its not CCPs task to determine moral values of corps: simply to provide the means for players to sculpt their own environment.
C.
Improved Low Sec Idea!! |
Katanaha
Gallente
Infinitus Odium
The Church.
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Posted - 2008.02.21 11:14:00 -
[37]
Edited by: Katanaha on 21/02/2008 11:14:01
/signed
i like this, makes lowsec allot more "intresting" 
_______________________
Please CCP pimp my sig!
orly?! |
Reviera
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Posted - 2008.02.21 19:00:00 -
[38]
my first thought is that it is a nice idea.
but without reading the hole thread i also think that this wont be possible as it will make low sec even more frightening/harder for all ppl that live in high sec.
and afaik CCP want ppl to leave high sec?
am i missing something?
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Esiel
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.02.21 21:43:00 -
[39]
Edited by: Esiel on 21/02/2008 21:44:10
This sounds great, I would love to see low sec as more than a place to avoid except when you have to. However the way security status works needs to be changed. It has been mentioned in this The Security Gradient 1.0 to 0.1
I think it would be a great way to further enhance what you suggested. If in .4 systems there are still active stations why not still have active Concord. Not the same Concord that is in empire space but a weaker version, one that is possible to defeat.
In .4 space it would require gang of several ships to tackle Concord while in .2 a single ship could fight off Concord. (Concord ships would repopulate at the same rate rats do) in .1 space well all that is left are the guns.
(think of it this way in .4 space Concord presence is equivilant to that of ships found in level 4 missions, in .3 a level 3 .2 a level 2 mission)
Pirates whine about this because they want a place to kill carebears and carebears whine because they want to be able to see low sec and have a chance. Well let it work for both of them, pirates can still kill carebears but now they have a harder time the higher the sec. This will make the carebears happy as they will feel safer in .4 systems and will venture out more.
Off with your head |
Knoppaz
Rens Nursing Home
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Posted - 2008.02.21 22:02:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Reviera
my first thought is that it is a nice idea.
but without reading the hole thread i also think that this wont be possible as it will make low sec even more frightening/harder for all ppl that live in high sec.
and afaik CCP want ppl to leave high sec?
am i missing something?
It would work if the black market gives a high profit for those that accept the high risk and are cautious..
Support Cailais' idea of LowSec MKII |
Cailais
Amarr
VITOC
|
Posted - 2008.02.21 23:14:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Knoppaz
Originally by: Reviera
my first thought is that it is a nice idea.
but without reading the hole thread i also think that this wont be possible as it will make low sec even more frightening/harder for all ppl that live in high sec.
and afaik CCP want ppl to leave high sec?
am i missing something?
It would work if the black market gives a high profit for those that accept the high risk and are cautious..
Exactly. Yes low sec, for the ill prepared is frightening, I think really its supposed to be that way. I dont think the answer is completely 'look heres more ISK, come and get it' - after all if youre that desperate for high ISK returns, you might aswell leap into 0.0. Rather I think Low Sec should be tantalising to players because it offers something a bit different.
Its a bit like dipping your toe in the water. I wouldnt expect legions of players to flock into low sec under these ideas and stay there, but instead more would venture in for short periods. Perhaps to make use of the black market, or via smuggling gates and the reduce 'local' effect to gain a little bit of proection.
Coupled with exploration style asteroid belts (as proposed by the Devs) I think this might work rather well - certainly in the less frequented low sec systems.
The comparative lack of 'dockable' stations might actually make the pirates life a bit harder in some respects as they in turn have fewer places to 'hide up' in whilst that fleet swoops through.
C.
Improved Low Sec Idea!! |
Cailais
Amarr
VITOC
|
Posted - 2008.02.21 23:19:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Esiel
Edited by: Esiel on 21/02/2008 21:44:10
This sounds great, I would love to see low sec as more than a place to avoid except when you have to. However the way security status works needs to be changed. It has been mentioned in this The Security Gradient 1.0 to 0.1
I think it would be a great way to further enhance what you suggested. If in .4 systems there are still active stations why not still have active Concord. Not the same Concord that is in empire space but a weaker version, one that is possible to defeat.
In .4 space it would require gang of several ships to tackle Concord while in .2 a single ship could fight off Concord. (Concord ships would repopulate at the same rate rats do) in .1 space well all that is left are the guns.
(think of it this way in .4 space Concord presence is equivilant to that of ships found in level 4 missions, in .3 a level 3 .2 a level 2 mission)
Pirates whine about this because they want a place to kill carebears and carebears whine because they want to be able to see low sec and have a chance. Well let it work for both of them, pirates can still kill carebears but now they have a harder time the higher the sec. This will make the carebears happy as they will feel safer in .4 systems and will venture out more.
Rather than CONCORD Id suggest NPC pirate faction rats (it is Low Sec after all), although instinctively Im against providing just more security for players who cant be bothered to provide their own. I still prefer the concept of explorable smuggling gates for those who take the time and effort to get a safer route through low sec, but perhaps dont have the back up of a large gang to 'force' their way in.
C.
Improved Low Sec Idea!! |
Johli
Caldari
AWE Corporation
Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2008.02.21 23:39:00 -
[43]
/signed.
I really don't agree with the t3 thing though.
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Cailais
Amarr
VITOC
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Posted - 2008.02.22 09:11:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Johli
/signed.
I really don't agree with the t3 thing though.
Im glad you like the ideas overall - what is it about the T3 concept that doesnt appeal - could you be more specific?
C
Improved Low Sec Idea!! |
Hugh Ruka
Caldari
Exploratio et Industria Morispatia
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Posted - 2008.02.22 11:07:00 -
[45]
Edited by: Hugh Ruka on 22/02/2008 11:08:57
however nice the idea is, this will never have much effect.
the deeper into system security status you go below 0.5, it takes more planning ahead in RL and more player cooperation (and more player skill).
this works against the casual gamer habits of instant content available at logon and not much planning involved (highsec missions and such).
so even if it would attract some new players, only those with more dedication to the game will ever venture past 0.5 regularly.
in the last QEN, about 19% of the eve population lives in 0.0. I think that number is about correct and reflects the division of attitudes in the palyer base.
EDIT: btw every ship scanner has a max range of 14.5AU, yet you are reducing local availability to 10AU in the extreme case. That has no logic at all. It simply does not work together.
Originally by: Aravel Thon
Originally by: Nith Batoxxx
Hi my alt just leanred to fly the ferox...............
I am so so terribly sorry...
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Cailais
Amarr
VITOC
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Posted - 2008.02.22 11:59:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Hugh Ruka
Edited by: Hugh Ruka on 22/02/2008 11:08:57
however nice the idea is, this will never have much effect.
the deeper into system security status you go below 0.5, it takes more planning ahead in RL and more player cooperation (and more player skill).
this works against the casual gamer habits of instant content available at logon and not much planning involved (highsec missions and such).
so even if it would attract some new players, only those with more dedication to the game will ever venture past 0.5 regularly.
in the last QEN, about 19% of the eve population lives in 0.0. I think that number is about correct and reflects the division of attitudes in the palyer base.
EDIT: btw every ship scanner has a max range of 14.5AU, yet you are reducing local availability to 10AU in the extreme case. That has no logic at all. It simply does not work together.
Yes, the AU range of the scanner does have a range of 14.5AU, but it provides very different information than local - for example it only shows the ship type, not the pilot or any details about him or her. In this case your ship scanner is still very valuable but only provides a partial picture, and no picture at all if the vessel youre looking for is cloaked.
Whilst I agree with you that the casual player might not venture into low sec / 0.0 because high sec content is more accesible its important to recognise that about 29% (based on the last QEN) have transited through non-high sec space: thats a suprisingly large % of the player base when we consider the 'anti low sec' sentiment described on these forums.
The addition of smuggling gates provides the means for players to access low sec space whilst potentialy avoiding the classic 'gate camp'. The Black Market (and my other ideas) provides some of the incentive to do so. The Reduced Local effect provides the capability to remain 'unnoticed' whilst entering or operating in Low Sec (which works both ways of course - for both hunter and prey).
I think its important to recognise that Im not aiming for some sort of 'mass exodus' from high sec space, instead to make Low Sec more appealing in 'gaming terms' for those that already operate their and perhaps achieve a small migration of players who would be attracted to that element of the game if they had the opportunity to do so.
C
Improved Low Sec Idea!! |
Hugh Ruka
Caldari
Exploratio et Industria Morispatia
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Posted - 2008.02.22 12:26:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Cailais
Originally by: Hugh Ruka
Edited by: Hugh Ruka on 22/02/2008 11:08:57
however nice the idea is, this will never have much effect.
the deeper into system security status you go below 0.5, it takes more planning ahead in RL and more player cooperation (and more player skill).
this works against the casual gamer habits of instant content available at logon and not much planning involved (highsec missions and such).
so even if it would attract some new players, only those with more dedication to the game will ever venture past 0.5 regularly.
in the last QEN, about 19% of the eve population lives in 0.0. I think that number is about correct and reflects the division of attitudes in the palyer base.
EDIT: btw every ship scanner has a max range of 14.5AU, yet you are reducing local availability to 10AU in the extreme case. That has no logic at all. It simply does not work together.
Yes, the AU range of the scanner does have a range of 14.5AU, but it provides very different information than local - for example it only shows the ship type, not the pilot or any details about him or her. In this case your ship scanner is still very valuable but only provides a partial picture, and no picture at all if the vessel youre looking for is cloaked.
Whilst I agree with you that the casual player might not venture into low sec / 0.0 because high sec content is more accesible its important to recognise that about 29% (based on the last QEN) have transited through non-high sec space: thats a suprisingly large % of the player base when we consider the 'anti low sec' sentiment described on these forums.
The addition of smuggling gates provides the means for players to access low sec space whilst potentialy avoiding the classic 'gate camp'. The Black Market (and my other ideas) provides some of the incentive to do so. The Reduced Local effect provides the capability to remain 'unnoticed' whilst entering or operating in Low Sec (which works both ways of course - for both hunter and prey).
I think its important to recognise that Im not aiming for some sort of 'mass exodus' from high sec space, instead to make Low Sec more appealing in 'gaming terms' for those that already operate their and perhaps achieve a small migration of players who would be attracted to that element of the game if they had the opportunity to do so.
C
heh I do understand your goal fully. and I do agree on most of your ideas (especialy the R&R stations look nice). the market change not so much.
anyway the loss of local as security/intel channel is more of a hindrance than a boon to your goal. it is ok for 0.0 (where I would fully support this), but in lowsec it limits exactly the instant content I wrote in my initial post.
I would modify your idea a bit.
A POS module could transmit local info with a system scanning array anchored to the owning corp/alliance (depends on settings) in both lowsec and 0.0. this would be a more elegant solution. let's say it has a 60 second scanning cycle. then your buoies (sp ?) at gates would transmit gate activation to the anchoring corp/individual again.
EVE lacks serious sensor warfare and refined scanning/intel gathering abilities to replace the local channel. scanner has limited range and as you mentioned, does display only a certain information. probes are cumbersome to use and require dedicated modules and skills. no anchorable scanning systems do exist (or at least that I know about). also there are no counter-measures (like anchorable "fog" generators).
but this again adds to the complexity of lowsec/0.0 logistics and would deter(sp ?) the average player.
what you can add to the game to enhance lowsec/0.0 in the same time adds complexity and depth which works against the average gamer enjoyment.
so I would support your idea for the most part, but it will not accomplish what you seek.
Originally by: Aravel Thon
Originally by: Nith Batoxxx
Hi my alt just leanred to fly the ferox...............
I am so so terribly sorry...
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Cailais
Amarr
VITOC
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Posted - 2008.02.23 15:10:00 -
[48]
It depends on how we view the 'average gamer'. If its someone who plays infrequently (say once a week) but does so for several hours then youre quite correct theyre likely to stick with 'what they know' and prefer not to take any risks whatsoever (their once a week 'eve hit' is too precious).
If however its a player who logs on 3 or 4 times a week for short bursts of an hour or two (Im sure thats the majority of us) then Smuggling Gates offer a chance to enter Low Sec and travel around it with increased 'security' (by being stealthy).
If once in that Low Sec hes harder to find, and can reach explorable content such as asteroid belts then that players chance of survival is at least a little higher.
We might envisage modules that make it harder to find your ship through scan probes (like stealth materials) - say a hp weaker 800mm plate that reduces your sig radius to scan probes.
If we then adjust some of the low sec rewards up ever so slightly we get a compounding of effects, improving the chance that a 'average player' spends time in Low Sec.
Certainly thats not the whole solution. Mission Generic ship fits to handle NPC spawns need to be looked at - especially the disparity between the MWD and AB. The closer the mission runner, or miners, "set up" vs the classic PVP ships in terms of capability the better. If we can give PVE players a more even footing against the highly spec'd PVP player then their chance of survival increases, and so the risk drops in proportion.
C.
Improved Low Sec Idea!! |
Esiel
Caldari
|
Posted - 2008.02.27 08:18:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Cailais
It depends on how we view the 'average gamer'.
If you read the latest quarterly economic report you can see that the average player does not venture in low sec, in fact 50% of the population won't go near it.
I would really love to see it change, so more people would want to try and branch out. Having some content that attracted people out is a good start but it will never truely happen untill low sec is a bit more safe. I don't think it should be as safe as empire space, but people need to have some chance to live when attacked.
Right now it is more dangerous to fly in low sec than 0.0 space. 0.0 space should be the most dagerous place to be, and low sec should safer than 0.0 but not as safe as empire, it should be a middle ground. With the way pirating is in lowsec the average player stands no chance. Untill this change is made I am willing to bet you will never see the shift that would let more people try out low sec and then eventaully 0.0.
(If they did make a change where pirating was harder in low sec than it is now I garantee the pirates would whine endlessly about having to move to 0.0 space. They want to kill without having to worry about being killed.)
Off with your head |
Mehos Spun
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Posted - 2008.02.27 09:25:00 -
[50]
i like the idea of black market hubs
but just for drugs and boosters
i dont linke
the 3 tech Idea
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Dogfighter
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Posted - 2008.02.27 12:31:00 -
[51]
Edited by: Dogfighter on 27/02/2008 12:33:35
Congratulations Cailais, excellent idea of yours.
Nowadays, the transition from 0.5 to 0.4 is abrupt. 0.5 is full of CONCORDS, 0.4 is outlaw. Although the use of some ships is limited in low secs while it is not in 0.0, the impression that new players have is that there is not so much difference between these systems' rules. Lets make this transition soft and interesting for the players.
I agree with your ideas and I would like to add this: CONCORD is unbeatable in 0.6 or above, but this starts to change as you go from 0.5 to 0.1 systems. Random CONCORD "rats" appear in the gates, and they become easier to kill as the sec status of the system fall. Different kind of loot can be collected from CONCORD (lets say some contrabands they had in their cargo or their special ship fittings).
It is just an idea, since I remeber of some NPC fights in that old game called "Privateer" between pirates and militias, or confed versus kilrathi. I didn't find this inside EVE, and I also miss the EVE NPC conflicts out of the missions. Maybe we could see some amarrians fighting minmatars in the gates, or even CONCORD/customs getting killed by Guristas.
Thanks for your dictionary of ideas Cailais.
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Cailais
Amarr
VITOC
Hedonistic Imperative
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Posted - 2008.02.28 01:46:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Esiel
Originally by: Cailais
It depends on how we view the 'average gamer'.
If you read the latest quarterly economic report you can see that the average player does not venture in low sec, in fact 50% of the population won't go near it.
I would really love to see it change, so more people would want to try and branch out. Having some content that attracted people out is a good start but it will never truely happen untill low sec is a bit more safe. I don't think it should be as safe as empire space, but people need to have some chance to live when attacked.
Right now it is more dangerous to fly in low sec than 0.0 space. 0.0 space should be the most dagerous place to be, and low sec should safer than 0.0 but not as safe as empire, it should be a middle ground. With the way pirating is in lowsec the average player stands no chance. Untill this change is made I am willing to bet you will never see the shift that would let more people try out low sec and then eventaully 0.0.
(If they did make a change where pirating was harder in low sec than it is now I garantee the pirates would whine endlessly about having to move to 0.0 space. They want to kill without having to worry about being killed.)
If you see 10 ships on gate in Low Sec blowing people up theyre 'pirates', if you see 10 ships on a gate in .0 blowing people up theyre an Alliance 'defending their territory': its all a matter of perspective.
Granted you can usually try and reason with a .0 alliance, get standings and so forth as they are protecting their assets deeper in. Get past the doorman and .0 is pretty safe. Low Sec dwellers have no vulnerable 'assets' per se, and plentiful recourse to stations to sit in if the heat gets to much. In this regard the Low Sec pirate has no interest in what you do if you get past them and fly 8 jumps furher on - wheres as an Alliance might.
Giving players assets to 'protect' (such as limited low sec sov) would mean a need for more co-ordination with others and a less nomadic way of life for the Low Sec player. By protecting those assets so a quasi "police force" occurs: and thats what you see in .0.
C.
Improved Low Sec Idea!! |
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