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Depp Knight Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.10.27 13:47:00 - [1] Well I use to fly the pilgrim and on rare occasions I would fly a curse. The problem is I rarely have a opportunity to solo, just happens to be that the corp I'm in I am always involved in massive battles, thatÆs something the amarr recons suffer strongly in. I preferred the pilgrim over the curse. I was very attractive to the pilgrim even though the curse was known to be a much better ship. I love the fact how it was a close range ship, a do or die with no flee bonus at all. Also it was such a challenge to fly in large battles and it performed better than the curse cause well it could cloak. Before nos nerf the pilgrim was fine, yes it had the worst ew bonus and you had to become a very skilful pilot to fly them in both gangs and solo The slot layout and nos bonus just seemed right. I had always used a neut and nos combo. However since nos nerf the pilgrim is completely useless mainly due to cap issues, tanking problems and the inability to drain the targets cap down to 0. Though you can fit your ship for very strict and certain situations and it can perform brilliant. One of the set-ups that was brought to me involved a purely no dps, heavy tank set-up that relied on breaking the targets lock. But the set up was to tackle a ship and wait for support. Problem is Gal, Caldari recons do that but better. I have tried tirelessly to come up with a set-up that would let the pilgrim perform like it once could. Though I think I have worked out a fitting that would let the pilgrim perform well, the problem is thatÆs again its only can be used in strict situations and still wont be the good old same pilgrim. Not to mention that the 100pg increase was brought in to let the pilgrim to fit a cap injector. Cap injectors cost 150pg and takes up a precious mid slot. The whole point of recons is that I can be used in all situations. Though some recons perform better that others, all can do their part. This was never the case for the amarr recons. It was a solo recon and anything but that, it was very average. Bigger the gang the more useless it had become.
Depp Knight Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.10.27 13:55:00 - [2] Now for the comment on the Deimos. I think oniplE made the comment. You say that the curse gives you the biggest threat? Well of course it would. Pilgrims are used in a very strict environment and the curse just has more flexibility with damps and speed. Your ship relies on cap with everything it does, it needs tracking and optimal to hit, something the amarr recons have bonus to. If anything the amarr recons are designed to kill the deimos and I would be very comfortable despite the nos nerf to take my pilgrim against your deimos. However, you can counter the amarr recons, eg speed fit or cap injector or both. As long as you can get in range for your blasters and have enough cap through your injector you can burn through the curse. But as you said, then you will become useless in other situations. Well now you can feel what the amarr recon pilots feels like especially the pilgrim pilots. It can only be used in a very precise environment. You may say thatÆs how recons all should operate, but yet all other races can perform greatly in more varied situations. A basic fitted Deimos can perform well in a lot of situations and a specific fitting can perform amazingly in stricter environments. Though the pilgrim/curse is design to get the upper hand on the Deimos, along with the zealot, eagle, geddon, thron, and other simular ships, it also struggles tremendously against drone, missile and minmie boats. I have tried so hard to get CCP to notice how badly the pilgrim performs now, I have made a few threads and have been a strong contributor to other threads. However here is the best thread to date. It delivers strong points, though some I disagree in, but at least the heart is in the right place and it should be bumped till there is a change.
Depp Knight Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.10.29 02:31:00 - [3] Im probably one of the few pilgrim pilots here that doesnt want to see this ship become another range recon. This is why I was attracted to the ship in the first place. Close combat, do or die. It was such a high to fly. However without getting anymore than about 3 cycles of nos thats like 12secs before the targets cap is below yours is kinda wrong. Again ccp gives the pilgrim an extra 100pg for a 150pg module and doesnt even add an extra mid slot. Cant believe no one mentions this
Depp Knight Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.10.30 11:35:00 - [4] I find it quite astonishing that so many people of the forums about the pilgrim truly believe that is fine. You will find that close to all of those who believe this have never flown one and look at the statical numbers and suggest that the nerfing is no where near as bad as some may seem. Those who had flown in and still try to will realise that the pilgrim is totally lost. Role is now obsolete to any other cloaking recons out there, because what ever the pilgrim can do, others can do better in nearly every situation available. With TD nerf just like most modules how is the ship even in the game. What is left of it.
Depp Knight Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.11.04 06:02:00 - [5] Poor pilgrim, the TD scripts has just sunk the ship to even lower level (can it get any lower?) Now I need to decide if I want to to decrease their tracking or range on turret ships only. Even damp nerf hasnt really nerfed the gal recons to bad. Why? Simply that those ships fit more than 1 damp. Poor pilgrim only gets to fit 1 TP and a nerf tp at that.
Depp Knight Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.11.04 12:11:00 - [6] With such a minority of pilots that fly this ship how long if ever do you think ccp will revisits this bull**** nerf? This thread was made the same day as a Eos nerf thread. This has 7 pages compared to the eos thread of 13. Not to mention all the other eos related threads. And that nerf is on sisi alone not on tranquillity and not to mention the pilgrim has been like this for a few months and the same people seem to be posting in this thread. And the eos nerf is nothing compared to the pilgrim
Depp Knight Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.11.06 13:40:00 - [7] Originally by: Garia666 Just one page to go 2 beat the eos... i know we can do it.. ! post more valid comments plz.. Imagine if that was possible. Eos nerf hasnt made it on TQ yet
Depp Knight Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.11.11 23:06:00 - [8] /me Awaits for a damn change. Couple of months now, no change plently of good ideas.
Depp Knight Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.11.18 15:34:00 - [9] Minmie recons will win a web battle against any bs Gal recons will win a damp battle against any bs Cal recons will win a jamming battle against any bs Amarr recons will not win a nos battle against any bs. Large nos's/neuts are as good as a bonused med nos/net on the amarr recons. Slightly less cap drain per sec but way more range. I see this is a huge problem under the current nos script.
Depp Knight Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.11.21 14:57:00 - [10] Another day and still no news of a change. Makes me wonder, if when will there be a fix, a change a bit of light? Atm I am sticking to the sacril. Pretty good **** btw. More on topic, TD's are broken, med nos is broken, pilgrims cap is broken, pilgrim is broken and new scripts and bandwidth breaks the pilgrim apart. Oh its great being a Pilgrim pilot.
Depp Knight Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.11.22 15:14:00 - [11] Damps are overpowered on a non bonused ship so yeh I see theres something wrong with the curse when you use it with damps. Speed, nos, damps and drones is a pretty awesome way to fly things and it has now become overpowered. The problem I see it as this. Target Disruptors are obviously broken when its combat recon that has its bonus doesnt use them.
Depp Knight Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.11.25 00:33:00 - [12] 13 pages. Go boys
Depp Knight Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.11.26 02:15:00 - [13] Originally by: Rudy Metallo They are not broken, they've just been forced into a gang role, which is where they belong and where the rest of the Recons reside as well. lol, your kidding right? A 12.5km optimal range ship where its nos/neuts wont make an effect on a gang as the target is dead before he feels his cap being drained and you can only fit 1 tracking disruptor on your ship.
Depp Knight Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.11.30 07:47:00 - [14] Originally by: The Passenger It's great that not one Dev has acknowledged the problem or that they are looking into it. I remember when CCP was regarded as being leagues ahead in player/dev communication. The Arbitrator hull is so awesome too Agree, wtf, not one comment 14 pages in not including all the other threads and not one single comment by the devs. PILGRIM IS BROKEN, FIX IT DAMNIT.
Depp Knight Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.11.30 14:26:00 - [15] Speed/damping curse is like the vaga. It can just bail if its in trouble. Pilgrim however stays in the fight. This is why speed ships are so damn good.
Depp Knight Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.12.01 11:20:00 - [16] Yeh I dont know how the neut change will help the pilgrim. Imagine if this is ccp's fix for the pilgrim. I wouldnt put it past them
Depp Knight Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.12.02 06:28:00 - [17] Originally by: Feng Schui 92 days for the rest of my drone skills / mechanic skills / nav skills... might as well, at least those skills will help with other ships I actually dont rate drones. Maybe its because of the alliance I am in and the scale of battles I am in but drones dont work for me. One of the main reasons why the pilgrim/curse blows in large battles is because of drones.
Depp Knight Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.12.03 08:30:00 - [18] Ive still got my pilgrim, I just dont use it.
Depp Knight Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.12.04 12:50:00 - [19] Its pretty easy to kill a ratter these days. A few ceptors will bring down a player ratting. So a curse taking a down an npcer is nothing new. Ill say this again, its been said over and over again. Gal recons will out damp any ship. Cal recons will out ecm any ship. Minmie recons will out web any ship. Amarr recons will not out nos any ship. Large nos is nearly as good as a bonuses med nos. More high slots available on bs and more cap. A large neut would just own the poor pilgrim orbiting at 12km.
Depp Knight Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.12.06 02:34:00 - [20] 15 pages and still no word on a change or even a hint that the devs know there is a problem.
Depp Knight Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.12.06 05:26:00 - [21] I tried an arty setup. LOL. It blew. How sad is that. I actually tried an arty setup and well your are not to far from the the pile either. Proof, Pilgrim is....... you know
Depp Knight Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.12.08 07:52:00 - [22] Originally by: Zakarazor what about we scrap the tracking distruptor bonus and give the curse and pilgrim a bonus that bring back the nos to full strenght but only on those 2 ships? that will let the pilgrim usefull again at the same time as it keep nos from being overpowered... If only it was that easy. Oh wait.
Depp Knight Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.12.17 05:24:00 - [23] A recon should be able to tank from its EW alone. If the recon fails to do that, then its really dead. All recons act like that in some sort of fashion. Caldari recons prevent the target from locking Dito for Gallente Minmie recons keep the target out of range. Now even pre nos nerf the pilgrim could not tank from its EW. Read through the 17 odd pages on why, however it could tank on its ability to nos. Now the only way for the pilgrim to tank is the use of cap boosters, and from its small bay this wont last long. Not only that but it cost 150pg, CCP only gave the pilgrim a 100pg increase, also it cost 1 less mid slot on a ew which could of helped reducing dmg. Now with 50 less pg the pilgrim now has less to spend in its lows on its tank. It now cannot fit its desired armor platge. Hence how shot the pilgrim is now. Cant tank, cant drain the targets cap, less EW, a close range ship still etc etc.
Depp Knight Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.12.17 14:10:00 - [24] ^ ?
Depp Knight Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.12.19 08:37:00 - [25] Hello, 17 pages and not one word on a change. WTF
Depp Knight Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.12.20 10:39:00 - [26] Cant beleive they are not reading the forums.
Depp Knight Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.12.23 03:04:00 - [27] Ive jumped back into my pilgrim. Dont know why, think new graphics makes it look sexy.
Depp Knight Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.12.25 11:13:00 - [28] Originally by: Bacci Galu Edited by: Bacci Galu on 23/12/2007 09:53:00 @ op.... U smokin some serious drugs brother.. As iam someone who has played a hell of a lot longer than you i will explain the following; Recons are not meant to be solo pwn mobiles The are meant to compliment roaming gangs/fleets with vast amounts of electronic warefare. they are meant to take away the ememies ability to fight effectively My raven would and has kicked many pilgrims a_ss's...it would kick your pilgrims a_ss.... your pilgrim is not meant to be able to solo a bs, no pilgrim is, just as no force recon is. sure, the nos nerf was a lil harsh, i can sympothise with that...but as for making your precious pilgrim a solo bs killer...grow up. LOL this guy thinks he knows he stuff cause he has played longer. You do have to right to believe that Recons should not be able to solo a bs. As you said Quote: The are meant to compliment roaming gangs/fleets with vast amounts of electronic warefare. they are meant to take away the ememies ability to fight effectively But the problem pre nos nerf that the pilgrim was a terrible compliment to a roaming gang of all sizes but that role was forgotten as it was a much better solo ship of all recons. Like how the domi is terrible in fleet, you don't hear complaints as it was a brilliant solo ship. Now after nos nerf the pilgrim is worse in roaming gangs of all sizes because now it has to use 1 mid for an injector and also it can no longer solo a ratting bs, hence why we believe the pilgrim is totally broken But of course you know all of this because your 'experienced.' Unfortunately you donÆt know your ****. Grow up.
Depp Knight Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.12.27 11:51:00 - [29] I would not let this thread being buried by Gal and Cal fitting threads. To many good things have been said to be ignored
Depp Knight Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.01.06 11:05:00 - [30] Everyday hurts being a Pilgrim pilot. Maybe the only thing we can do is get a petition going and email it. Who shall start it. We can start it right now. Just put your name down that you want the pilgrim to be boosted as soon as possible and ill send it away. But we really need more numbers. Or we can sit here and just say the same stuff over and over. Up to you but atm we all know the pilgrim is like HD-DVD. Dead and looking like it wont come back.
Depp Knight Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.01.07 07:06:00 - [31] Originally by: Aaron Mirrorsaver lets just not buy them period anymore. I like to fly in style. Pilgrim looks sexy pitty under the hood it just sucks :(
Depp Knight Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.01.11 13:28:00 - [32] I would like to add this. Its important because its how the game has played out over the last year. Last year I would fit a -2 7.5km scram on all my frigs. Reasons behind that was obviously stabs played a big part of that game. Now no frig pilot fits a 7.5km scram on their ship. Its just pointless. Before if you were tackled by a frigate in your pilgrim it was just a web and nos and that frig is doomed. However now frigs use 20km scrams and will orbit you outside both web and nos range. To make this worse the way ceptors are these days you know longer need cpr to keep your scram running. Instead they get a scram cap bonus and rely on nano's and od's for speed, leaving your drone less likely to scare them. Im sure someone else can explain it better but the way the game has gone now 12.5km weapons are just pointless if you are slow which the pilgrim is. Just another thing that people here havnt mentioned. A caldari recon can jam a tackler Gal recon can dampen a tackler. Minmie would own a tackler Curse could also own a tackler Pilgrim cannot. more proof that the pilgrim is unbalanced and needs a buff.
Depp Knight Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.01.16 01:10:00 - [33] At the start I wouldnt be happy if the pilgrim got the range bonus because then it would be just like the curse. It would lose its identity which is get in close. But the range bonus would help the pilgrim out in gang instantly. Even though the curse is still one of the worst combat ships in gangs it still can be usefull. The pilgrim with that range bonus would be close to that level. But another thing that ccp needs to look at is Tracking Disruptors. They really need to be better. As a damp and ecm can counter all other ew. The scripts really didnt need to be included in TD's. The scripts for damps was a great idea as he brought damps down the same level as TD's but all cpp did was bring TD's down even further. DUH!!
Depp Knight Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.01.17 01:45:00 - [34] Well I lost my pilgrim yesterday. My first pilgrim lost. I fell 3 short of 100 killmails. Sad sad day. Now I can let go.
Depp Knight Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.01.22 05:05:00 - [35] Those who say that Recons tanks are its EW are totally spot on. But the amarr recons EW is useless to be used as a tank. The pilgrim makes life worse as your in web range. Also you dont have the flexability to go with damps like the curse as your to close anyway. I cant believe CCP nerf Tracking Disruptors. They were in line as the worst EW along with Target paiters which are very useful if used with Webs. If anything, TD's should some how help avoid missiles, maybe a by chance system like ECM. I dont know and its really not the topic of discussion. If you break it down TDs have to choose its bonus from range or tracking but you still have to deal with drones, missiles and not to mention all other EW. Thats the big one above. A ship that uses tracking Disruptors still needs to deal with other forms of EW. If a ship was to get some damps on your ship or a ECM those two mods alone counter all forms of combat. It prevents EW on yourself, it prevent dmg and protects your drones. Hello CCP, the pilgrim is totally ****** and you know it.
Depp Knight Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.01.30 00:55:00 - [36] Originally by: Madla Mafia Just do something !!! Best post yet. We have given some great ideas and some poor ones. There are lot of options for CCP to choose if they dont wish to think for themselves. But it all comes down to this. As Madla Said Originally by: Madla Mafia Just do something !!!
Depp Knight Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.02.01 01:07:00 - [37] I cant remember when this nos nerf patch happen but I know this thread has started 3 months ago and I know there were other pilgrim/amarr recon threads before this. This is a long time without a single bit of information of a near future fix.
Depp Knight Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.02.02 14:00:00 - [38] Edited by: Depp Knight on 02/02/2008 14:00:36 http://myeve.eve-online.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=537 They fix the apoc. Great. They fix the omen. Great BUT THEY ****IN DIDNT FIX THE PILGRIM At least tracking disruptors got a boost in falloff penalty. Still wish there was no script to it. I dont see why you would use the range script in a pilgrim. Normally your at close range and still doesnt make an effect in a large battle like damps and ecm do. But at least its a start. Still, hello dev blog, wheres the pilgrim fix?
Depp Knight Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.02.07 16:15:00 - [39] oops, I fell and bumped the thread.
Depp Knight Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.02.10 15:39:00 - [40] CCP need to stop with the nerf bat and start with the boost bat. A good start would be balancing EW mods. Apart from Warp scrams and webs ECM is now the number EW module and working as intended. ECM is now followed by Damps since the nerf which is lagging behind more so now. And a long way off from those 2 is Target painters then tracking disruptors and even further behind is linking mods. eg Sensor Booster linking. Or whatever they are called. Has anyone actually used linking mods? Anyway balance EW and while you at it CCP. Boost the pilgrim :P. IÆm serious to. That tongue is me spitting at you. FIX THE DAMN PILGRIM!!
Depp Knight Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.03.04 13:25:00 - [41] Yeh I take the blame for the non bump. I am just over it and just believe the pilgrim will suck forever. Its a RIP ship now. A rapier will win a web battle The arazu will win a dampening battle. A falcon will win a ecm battle and can win all other ew battles. A pilgrim cannot win a cap warfare battle. A domi is more deadly at that. Has more range, more dps and more tank and can even be fitted to be faster. Now to take that into consideration. Put the pilgrim as a close range, even web range ship, with poor tank, poor cap, low dps, slow speed, crap EW and you get a broken ship. WHAT IS SO HARD TO UNDERSTAND ABOUT THAT CCP.
Depp Knight Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.03.05 14:31:00 - [42] Yeh, seeing the eagle which is fine for a sniping support killer get a little buff and seeing the pilgrim still being a piece of **** that it is, makes me sad.
Depp Knight Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.03.09 01:26:00 - [43] We didnt get involved in the boost patch. sigh
Depp Knight Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.03.12 01:53:00 - [44] Edited by: Depp Knight on 12/03/2008 01:53:48 Originally by: Grytok Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: Grytok ... Still even the curse needs a bit better neut efficiency, pilgrim also. And pilgrim needs range instead of damage bonus. Thats it. Why doesnt anyon fix this? Its such an easy fix. The Curse is absolutely fine if fitted right. You can run a MWD, Scram and 3x Med Neuts without fitting a CapBooster. After looking into some setups I agree. The curse even though has been nerfed hard and isnÆt the same ship can still be very useful if you adapt. However its impossible to adapt to the pilgrim as a combat ship. Yes it can still pop cynos and set up on targets and you can come up with a EW set-up where you can hold down a single target effectively before you fleet arrives but its all limited to just that role. My opinion is that Target painters and Tracking disruptors do need a boost because the best EW in the game are, Scrams, Web, ECM and Damps. What can counter all ew in ECM and this is why its number one. Not to mention the range of ECM ships are amazing, infact you can see a caldari recon jamming you 200 clicks away. Damps are still useful and got keep a ECM ship at bay. Webs of course are insta kill for anything smaller than you while scrams are a must. The thing is Target Disruptors are only used in limited situations and even then its not effective. Lets face it a ECM or Damp can be just as effective on all ships and sizes. TD's are only effective in larger ships where tracking does become an issue. A good start would be that Tracking disruptors causes a dysfunction in drone usage. Which means if you are being tracking disruptor your drones cannot be used. That way Tracking disruptors can be used in an unusual and most importantly itÆs a mod that can only be used in this situation.
Depp Knight Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.03.18 03:41:00 - [45] Signed. Enough is enough. There are some great ideas in this thread. Its really about picking which one. A simple changed like the pilgrim losing its dmg bonus for nos/neut range is one of them. Cannot be any simplier than that.
Depp Knight Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.03.18 14:02:00 - [46] Actually you are right. Losing the dmg bonus is not a great idea.
Depp Knight Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.03.19 12:20:00 - [47] Recon level and 95% reduction of large Energy Neutralizer CPU and Grid fitting requirements is a bit high. I actually dont have a fitting problem with the pilgrim. Infact since the 100pg increase, I dont have a fitting problem at all, unless I want to fit a cap booster, which is just stupid as It only has 5 mid slots. 1 for scram, 1 for web, 1 for mwd. Leaving two others for EW. Which is what its suppose to be. And in saying that, the 100pg increase cheeses me off big time, because a cap booster cost 150pg. Now i am all for the pilrgim having the role as it should. A close range recon, get in their dirty, type of a ship. But at the same time, a range bonus is also a nice boost. Either way, i wont lose sleep on what ccp decides, as long as it become an affective ship once again. Mind you, the reason why I trained for amarr recons, was for the pilgrim, because of the style it could fly. Also its difficult for ccp to removed the cyno bonus on the pilgrim, because thats one of the key bonuses for cloaking recons, and if that has been taken away from then, then you in a situation where the amarr race doesnt have an affecitve cyno ship. I believe that for one, ccp need to increase small and med neuts. Med neuts going to about 15km. Another change should be a larger increase in cap rehcarge rate for both the curse and the pilgrim. The pilgrim of course should get a higher recharge rate and total cap. The changes to TD's as I suggest above would also work. From those changes, you can tell, there is a lot to be done. Which says something. The pilgrim is totally broken.
Depp Knight Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.03.19 14:17:00 - [48] Because amarr recons are (were) designed to be solo ships, because simply, they are pathetic in fleet. Just like the falcon blows in solo but is amazing in fleet. There needs to be a balance.
Depp Knight	Posted - 2008.03.21 00:32:00 - [49] This last page has some great points. The main being is that the pilgrim cannot out cap a bs. If that is not proof that the pilgrim its not broken, then what is?
Depp Knight	Posted - 2008.03.21 06:15:00 - [50] Only thing we can do as pilgrim fans and pilots, is to keep this thread going, remaining on the front page, like a flag in CCP's face, with the msg: FIX THE ****IN PILGRIM
Depp Knight Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.03.21 12:52:00 - [51] I like it, because its unique. Instead of it being random, maybe this module can use scripts. Low, Med, Hi; scripts so it will effect those modules, and it will be random to which one it destroys. But tbh, I believe this module should be what Target painters are. Just a thought though.
Depp Knight	Posted - 2008.03.22 11:32:00 - [52] Which means, we are in a situation where if we do get a pilgrim boost, it will be small. In-fact the boost patch gave TD's are boost. From the patch notes, prior the patch, It was said that this is a boost for amarr recons. No joke, I cant remember the exact line, but if you read between the lines, it was suggesting that this was the amarr recon boost that was needed. No it was a TD boost, (Maybe not even a boost, as TD's should have always affect falloff prior to the patch) So if we get a change in the near future, it may be small. A huge cap/recharge increase would the be simplest option.
Depp Knight Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.03.22 14:49:00 - [53] A fix to TD's is not the answer. The pilgrim is still a close range ship with no cap, and a ab is not an option these days. If you got an ab then you must get in web range, as the target would just run. So then you may as well not use any speed boost and more TD's, or increase your cap recharge rate. whatever you choose, its still a dodgy ship.
Depp Knight Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.03.23 04:13:00 - [54] Because pre nos nerf, the pilgrim was not broken, because it could fuel its tank with nos up until the target cap has been depleted, which nullifies their dmg output and their tank. There is no doubt that TD's are not effective, even with its recent boost. People dont realise that the pilgrim got nerfed three times. 1st was the ecm nerf. Often a pilgrim pilot would have a ecm burst on its ship. 2nd was the nos nerf 3rd was scripts Even when the ecm nerf came, the pilgrim could still do its job, it was until the nos nerf took place that killed the pilgrim. If the pilgrim can fuel its tank and a tank is needed for the ship, as its a close range ship, then the pilgrim can be close to what it was. Thats why a cap/cap recharge boost, (and a big increase at that) would help the pilgrim alot. T d's being broken is a seperate issue. IMO they are a mod that are easy to fit, use little amount of cap per cycle yet no one uses it. There is a reason for that. Scary thing is, you are seeing more Target painters than TD's, on ships. The pilgrims problem is the nos nerf/cap problems.
Depp Knight Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.03.26 12:10:00 - [55] then the pilgrim can not drain ones cap, as its own cap is low.
Depp Knight Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.03.26 12:11:00 - [56] Instead of amount bonus to range bonus, make it, neut cap reduction cost 20% per lvl. Making it 0 cap at lvl 5, and increase the pilgrims total cap/cap recharge rate.
Depp Knight Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.03.26 15:01:00 - [57] Originally by: Hydrogen Edited by: Hydrogen on 26/03/2008 12:31:26 Originally by: Depp Knight Instead of amount bonus to range bonus, make it, neut cap reduction cost 20% per lvl. Making it 0 cap at lvl 5, and increase the pilgrims total cap/cap recharge rate. Originally by: Hydrogen What are your five most favored proposed changes in descending priority? @Depp: THIS ^^ Which are yours? Yeah ill get on it. For now, I sleep.
Depp Knight Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.03.27 11:41:00 - [58] K, my top five has no influence over the curse nor tracking disruptors, because they are a total separate issues. First thing is first. My entire top 5, which are in no order at all, will also result in an increase the pilgrims total cap and cap recharge rate, and cargo space, with a slight increase in pg and cpu. Also some of these 5 ideas can be used together. 1. The nos nerf is lifted and does not affect pilgrims. 2. Pilgrim loses dmg bonus for neut range bonus, and increase the drone bandwidth to use more heavy drones, to make up for the loss of dmg, and becomes another nano recon. 3. Pilgrim gets a much larger increase in cap and cap recharge rate, swaps a low for a mid slot, and gets a 40% bonus to neut drain per lvl. 4. Pilgrim loses dmg bonus, gets an increase in drone bandwidth (see number 2) and gets a very large cap recharge rate per level bonus. Say 20% per level. So it can be hard to drain out the pilgrims cap. 5. Pilgrim loses dmg bonus, and gains more drone bandwidth(look above) and gets a 20% to cap booster effectiveness and cap battery effectiveness per lvl. Giving it a 100% increase in effectiveness at lvl V. Swaps two lows for two mid slots and gains more cargo space. Again making it hard to kill the pilgrims cap.
Depp Knight Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.04.10 05:25:00 - [59] Trying to fit the curse. Was flying a good setup but still didnt like it. Wasnt bringing enough to the gang. But it got me thinking. People who say the curse isnt broken is totally wrong. Yes it can still be dangerous but you name another recon that has to fit a cap injector or cap battery so it can be flown, and I will agree with you. It will still lose in a cap war. Nos nerf sucks. And on top of that I would like to say that the nos nerf didnt need to happen. People who complain for the nerf were not whining about nos in general but Heavy nos. You didnt hear. 'omg med nos so overpowered.' Ok thats the end of my rant.
Depp Knight Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.04.12 01:01:00 - [60] Originally by: Brother Welcome Edited by: Brother Welcome on 11/04/2008 15:00:06 Edited by: Brother Welcome on 11/04/2008 14:56:25 Originally by: PaddyPaddy Nihildarnik I dont think the answer is complete immunity to the nos nerf but I really cant provide an alternative to that atm. Now the issue with a booster is that they're heavy and make the Curse a difficult fit. It's kind of hard to get your head around the idea that a ship set up for sucking cap from its opponent must fit a cap booster! Exactly
Depp Knight Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.04.12 05:53:00 - [61] The problem with the range bonus over the amount bonus is the pilgrim wont be able to nuke anyoneÆs cap. Another option would be scripts. Remove large and small nos/neuts from the game, and only have 1 size, and increase their amount drain for both. The nos should have a range of 12km standard, neuts the range of 24km. For nos insert two scripts; range script at the cost of amount drained, and amount script at the cost of range. For neuts insert two scripts; cap reduction script at the cost of amount drained, and amount script at the cost of cap and range. Just an estimate. Neglecting nos nerf. Best named Nos. 175pg, 25 cpu. 12 sec cycle time. Nos standard. 80 cap drained 12km range Range scrip. 40 cap drained 24km range Amount. 160 cap drained 6 km range Best Named. Neuts 200pg, 25 cpu, 12 sec cycle time. Neuts standard. 250 cap drained, 24km range, 200 cap usage Cap Script. 125 cap drained, 24km range, 50 cap usage. Amount. 750 cap drained, 6km range, 600 cap usage. The idea is that there is only one size. Some may disagree but cap warfare is ew. Without cap the target cannot do much. It disables their abilities. So in saying that, have one size but add scripts. The nos 80 cap drain without nos nerf maybe to steep but remember its only 12km with a 12 sec cycle time. Not the 24km, 120 cap drained for heavy nos. For neuts, it still be recognised as the offensive cap warfare module. The range bonus over nos and amount drained is evident of that. The downside is cap usage and pg. (Ok this may not effect bs or capitals however Bs should be more potent.) This will allow cap ships and bs to still be able to defend themselves from support. Lower the range at 6km and you can seriously do some dmg to hostiles capacitor. This will be handy for capital warfare, (if you wish to get in web/smartbomb range), or for close range BS. This isnÆt ideal for standard capitals or bs, but just an option. The cap reduction cost is idle for cruisers. For nos itÆs not ideal for fleet BSÆs or capitals. The 12km range is evident of that, and the range script is pointless unless you want to drain 40 cap with 12sec cycle time. If a bs wishes to use nos it would be best advised to use the amount script. Get in close under 6km. A bs would be better off fitting neuts, as it only drains a small amount of cap from its huge capacitor with a much better range on the module. So Nos is for mission runners and cruisers, with the flexibility to choose your range. A cruiser might want to get in close and fuel its tank, or he might be speed fitted so it increases the range and fuel its mwd. The curse would become viable in fleet battles, being able to neut at around 75km. As for the sentinel. Take away the range bonus and give it pg/cpu bonus for fitting neuts and nos. Now obviously itÆs a bit late to nuke the nos nerf that so many people love and add a simular idea to this. But its fun to come up with interesting ideas. These numbers are just estimates. Comments?
Depp Knight Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.04.13 14:21:00 - [62] just cannot give up. There are some great ideas in this thread and some interesting ideas as well. I will say this again. Nos was not an issue, Heavy nos was though.
Depp Knight Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.04.14 12:29:00 - [63] Well in all honesty, you were facing two hacs. Ok yeh a falcon could flee but not kill them. Thats a different issue. Mainly ECM over any other ew.
Depp Knight Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.04.18 00:06:00 - [64] Originally by: Etho Demerzel Edited by: Etho Demerzel on 17/04/2008 23:37:37 Originally by: Lyria Skydancer You're taking things out of context. Curse is worthless in a gang if you have options to field ecm and web recons. Curse is worthless solo if you can fly hacs like sacrilege. Yeah it is a pretty worthless ship. Look at the bright side, the Curse is not an Arazu or a Lachesis. THOSE are worthless ships for real... Curse and pilgrim have been broken for a lot longer than the gal recons and the gal recons are still better than what amarr recons can offer.
Depp Knight Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.04.19 00:10:00 - [65] No the nos nerf will never get a roll back. It was the worst nerf ever. Large nos did need a nerf but the way they did it was a shocker, and they did it just before the alliance tourney. We all know it was rushed just for the tourney
Depp Knight Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.04.22 02:01:00 - [66] Current crying at my curse setup. It just isnt effective anymore.
Depp Knight Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.04.22 09:56:00 - [67] Whats the nano nerf? Wasnt there just a nano nerf only a year ago? It stopped nano domi's, what next?
Depp Knight Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.05.01 12:56:00 - [68] Do you guys use 3neuts on your curse, or prefer to have at least 1 nos?
Depp Knight Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.05.03 14:21:00 - [69] Thing is with that setup, if you fight your in it to die or to kill. No flee bonus at all. ALl other recons have a ability to run.
Depp Knight Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.05.06 12:36:00 - [70] Originally by: Brother Welcome --WTF doesn't Pilgrim have the range bonus instead of the amount bonus on Cap Drain modules? -vk We have been through this. Nos/neuts have sizes. No one has ever been scared of an un bonused medium nos/neuts. EVER.
Depp Knight Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.05.10 13:14:00 - [71] Nothing more can be said that hasnt been said before. It now just the waiting game. Its been over 6 months. I have gotten over it tbh. I have just learnt to not fly the thing or fly it like a gimp.
Depp Knight Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.05.27 01:45:00 - [72] Does anyone actually fly this ship for combat purposes anymore?
Depp Knight Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.06.12 01:58:00 - [73] Did the pilgrim get a boost in the new expansion at all? Any plans to?
Depp Knight Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.06.25 02:26:00 - [74] Originally by: Feng Schui why don't we just get rid of the nos and TD bonuses, and give it a cargo bonus and mining amount bonus.. seriously. LOL, imagine if that actually happened. Bump, hello, fix the pilgrim.
Depp Knight Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.07.06 06:58:00 - [75] Good to see this thread still going. Ive been inactive lately, Pilgrim still gimped? Typical. clap clap ccp, good work. :(
Depp Knight Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.10.31 08:34:00 - [76] I have come up with a decent setup that can help out in the style that we BoB pilot fight at = large scale battles, however I am still at unease to use it, mainly because other ships can do a similar, and much better at that. Thats the problem, the very few things that pilgrim can do, other ships can do better at. Again, why would the pilgrim only get a 100pg increase so it can fit a 150pg module = med booster? Why not give it any more cap or cap recharge when they took away the nos advantage? Why not boosts its tank as its a close combat web range ship?
Depp Knight Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.11.04 11:25:00 - [77] Any new setups for speed nerf/web nerf, 2point scram boost?
Depp Knight Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.11.13 23:11:00 - [78] Would a large cap battery along with a ab be worth it? can you sustain 2 neuts with that?
Depp Knight Evolution KenZoku	Posted - 2009.02.07 00:22:00 - [79] I've been out of action. Any news on the pilgrim? Any good fits?

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