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Fango Mango
University of Caille Gallente Federation
10
|
Posted - 2012.01.26 01:41:00 -
[1] - Quote
So sadly, one of my markets has been infected by a bot.
Whenever online, it will update the buy/sell orders of a least 2 itmes (only ones I have confirmed it is botting) within 30 seconds of not being the highest buy order / lowest sell order. I suppose it *could* be a person, but I've checked maybe 50 times over the last week and it always updates within 30 seconds. I'm pretty certain it's not a human . . .
Normal buy/sell spread for these items is about 50% with a daily volume around 500Mil Isk. I'm guessing this bot is bringing in an average profit of about 50 Million per day on these two items. Not a lot, but it's annoying because I can't compete with it.
Anyway . . . on to what I should do about.
First . . .Does filing a petition do any good? Will CCP ban market bots or it is filing just a waste of time.
On to the real question . . . How do I take advantage of the bot. It seems fairly smart . . . the max I can run it's buy price up to is about 10% above region average. The max I can run it's sell price down to is about 10% below region average.
The best luck I have had is running the buy price up as far as I can, filling it's order with my stock and then I buying low until the owner sets up another order (apparently it does not do this on its own).
Any other thoughts on how to game market bots, get them banned, or otherwise convince them to move to another market.
-FM
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Mr Blueberry
0
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Posted - 2012.01.26 02:28:00 -
[2] - Quote
Make a tiny buy/sell order to compete with it, have your price lower or higher by the 10% you say you can modify it to. Assuming the bot doesn't log it previous orders you should be able to exploit that.
If it does modify its orders using regional average then that can be exploited too...granted it would be expensive for you to do that and not really worth the effort.
But if you have the isk; do it for the lulz. |

Fango Mango
University of Caille Gallente Federation
10
|
Posted - 2012.01.26 02:34:00 -
[3] - Quote
Mr Blueberry wrote:Make a tiny buy/sell order to compete with it, have your price lower or higher by the 10% you say you can modify it to. Assuming the bot doesn't log it previous orders you should be able to exploit that.
If it does modify its orders using regional average then that can be exploited too...granted it would be expensive for you to do that and not really worth the effort.
But if you have the isk; do it for the lulz.
Thanks,
This is what I have tried to do with limited sucess. The end result is that I can make a little bit of cash off the BOT, maybe 10% profit per unit, but it still will make 30% profit per unit. 1) I'd rather be making the 40% profit myself Or 2) I would rather have the stock of items to use myself.
I was just wondering how other people deal with this issue.
-FM |

Jacob Stiller
The Scope Gallente Federation
1111
|
Posted - 2012.01.26 02:46:00 -
[4] - Quote
If I run into a situation where someone perfectly monopolizes buys orders day after day, I simply use my buy order to bait them into crashing their own margin. If I can't get into a market at all, I may as well minimize the profits of the monopolizer.  |

Severian Autarch
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
3
|
Posted - 2012.01.26 03:53:00 -
[5] - Quote
Fango Mango wrote:So sadly, one of my markets has been infected by a bot.
Whenever online, it will update the buy/sell orders of a least 2 itmes (only ones I have confirmed it is botting) within 30 seconds of not being the highest buy order / lowest sell order. I suppose it *could* be a person, but I've checked maybe 50 times over the last week and it always updates within 30 seconds. I'm pretty certain it's not a human . . .
Normal buy/sell spread for these items is about 50% with a daily volume around 500Mil Isk. I'm guessing this bot is bringing in an average profit of about 50 Million per day on these two items. Not a lot, but it's annoying because I can't compete with it.
Anyway . . . on to what I should do about.
First . . .Does filing a petition do any good? Will CCP ban market bots or it is filing just a waste of time.
On to the real question . . . How do I take advantage of the bot. It seems fairly smart . . . the max I can run it's buy price up to is about 10% above region average. The max I can run it's sell price down to is about 30% above region average.
The best luck I have had is running the buy price up as far as I can, filling it's order with my stock and then I buying low until the owner sets up another order (apparently it does not do this on its own).
Any other thoughts on how to game market bots, get them banned, or otherwise convince them to move to another market.
-FM
So if you were to immediately close the gap by placing a buy at 10.1% above and a sell at 29.9% above, would this effectively cutthe bot out of the market? Your profit would be capped at the 20% spread. But you're still making a profit, the hotter makes nothing, and after a few days of this the botter may move on.
|

Lucinda Hamu
Hedion University Amarr Empire
14
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Posted - 2012.01.26 08:52:00 -
[6] - Quote
Jacob Stiller wrote:If I run into a situation where someone perfectly monopolizes buys orders day after day, I simply use my buy order to bait them into crashing their own margin. If I can't get into a market at all, I may as well minimize the profits of the monopolizer. 
You're evil but I like your line of thought. |

Jorn Isu
Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
21
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Posted - 2012.01.26 09:02:00 -
[7] - Quote
1) If the item is manufacturable, at a cost below the regional average, I'd get a few billion isk worth of it from a bulk manufacturer and fill his order each time. Or, hell, find someone who manufactures them and tip them off to a little secret. Hopefully the ******* will leave when he realizes he spent 10b on mods worth 9.2b that will take him 3 weeks to flip for his 12b revenue, even if he buys no more. That way, you don't have to do any work, and hopefully you can move back in to that particular market after a month once the jerk's been driven out. |

Lyrka Bloodberry
Spybeaver
60
|
Posted - 2012.01.26 10:37:00 -
[8] - Quote
File a petition and switch to a different item. It's not that there aren't enough profitable ones. Ruining the Bot's profit won't help you maximizing yours. Spybeaver |

Nerath Naaris
Pink Winged Unicorns for Peace Love and Anarchy
69
|
Posted - 2012.01.26 11:33:00 -
[9] - Quote
Lyrka Bloodberry wrote:Ruining the Bot's profit won't help you maximizing yours.
Depends on how you define "profit", I guess.....
Unbanned since 2011.10.20. |

Brewlar Kuvakei
Adeptio Gloriae
13
|
Posted - 2012.01.26 16:28:00 -
[10] - Quote
CCP will sadly take no action against the bot unelss it is RMT related. Even if they do take action it will be in the form of a warning and the botter will get 3 of these before any sort of ban will be considered. Sadly you just have to stop trading items that the bot markets in that region.
Welcome to the ****-hole bot fest that is EVE online. |

Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
301
|
Posted - 2012.01.26 22:41:00 -
[11] - Quote
Trade on trends, not spreads. |

SOOHN ABREEZ
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
3
|
Posted - 2012.01.27 05:45:00 -
[12] - Quote
I predict you will not find much consolation or satisfying help on this subject AND....... CCP will lock this thread down if the bot discussion continues much further. |

EnslaverOfMinmatar
BRAPELILLE MACRO BOT MINERS
3
|
Posted - 2012.01.27 08:27:00 -
[13] - Quote
Fango Mango wrote:So sadly, one of my markets has been infected by a bot.
Whenever online, it will update the buy/sell orders of a least 2 itmes (only ones I have confirmed it is botting) within 30 seconds of not being the highest buy order / lowest sell order. I suppose it *could* be a person, but I've checked maybe 50 times over the last week and it always updates within 30 seconds. I'm pretty certain it's not a human . . .
Sell 1 item to him and send him some evemails saying something like 'haha bot detected'. If it's a player, he'll likey reply with "**** OFF IDIOT" or similar. Every EVE player must read this http://www.eveonline.com/background/potw/default.asp?cid=29-01-07 or uninstall and DIAF |

Brewlar Kuvakei
Adeptio Gloriae
17
|
Posted - 2012.01.27 12:04:00 -
[14] - Quote
Sad but true most bots will have convo diabled. One thing to do is spam the bot with trade requests with an alt. Trade requests can not be declined and this usally buggers to bot up for a couple of hours if it's not being managed by an actual player while he's on his alt.
Performing trade requests is a good way to detect market bots. As you know when they are closed as your window closes too. So if you offer 3 trades from 3 alts to the bot while he's updating his orders, you will detect the bot by the fact it's orders no longer update and it does not understand how to close the trade windows. If it closes the windopws and continues trading it's probably a human or at least being monitored by a human.
Most market bots I've seen still are not scripted to close trade windows. I imagine if everybody does this to the bots they soon will be LOL |

Brewlar Kuvakei
Adeptio Gloriae
17
|
Posted - 2012.01.27 12:11:00 -
[15] - Quote
Anyway there is simple solution for market bots. It's called Catha but CCP don't give 2 ***** about botting so dream on for a simple anti market bot system. Every 20 orders or so should ask fora written test but meh. Botters on forum will come monaing saying no that would disrupt gameplay for normal people. Would it hell the only people it would disrupt is botters and that is why you'll be moaning below. |

Maeste Madeveda
The Spawning Pool Team Liquid
1
|
Posted - 2012.01.27 13:55:00 -
[16] - Quote
Jacob Stiller wrote:If I run into a situation where someone perfectly monopolizes buys orders day after day, I simply use my buy order to bait them into crashing their own margin. If I can't get into a market at all, I may as well minimize the profits of the monopolizer.  Which - if the developper isn't a script kiddie - would require a way bigger time investment in reverse-engineering the algorithm than it will requires the developper to tweak it. Sometimes it's just not worth it.
That being said, to reverse any algorithm you need to make one yourself, predict its behavior (or run it) and experiment the market. Tracking information and responses will be the best allies for anyone facing a bot. |

Brewlar Kuvakei
Adeptio Gloriae
17
|
Posted - 2012.01.27 14:30:00 -
[17] - Quote
I like how CCP boasts thatt EVE has a ''dynamic player driven ecconmy.''. Someone should complain to trading standards that this statement is utter lies and the majority of the market is controled by scripts thus it's an ai driven ecconemy. Maybe they'll force them to retract this statement :). |

Mr Blueberry
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.27 14:36:00 -
[18] - Quote
Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:Anyway there is simple solution for market bots. It's called Catha but CCP don't give 2 ***** about botting so dream on for a simple anti market bot system. Every 20 orders or so should ask fora written test but meh. Botters on forum will come monaing saying no that would disrupt gameplay for normal people. Would it hell the only people it would disrupt is botters and that is why you'll be moaning below.
My market bot will I normally manage about 60 or so orders. If I had to prove I'm a person with Captchas 3 times in a run it wouldn't disrupt me but would certainly **** me off. |

Brewlar Kuvakei
Adeptio Gloriae
18
|
Posted - 2012.01.27 17:55:00 -
[19] - Quote
Mr Blueberry wrote:Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:Anyway there is simple solution for market bots. It's called Catha but CCP don't give 2 ***** about botting so dream on for a simple anti market bot system. Every 20 orders or so should ask fora written test but meh. Botters on forum will come monaing saying no that would disrupt gameplay for normal people. Would it hell the only people it would disrupt is botters and that is why you'll be moaning below. My market bot will I normally manage about 60 or so orders. If I had to prove I'm a person with Captchas 3 times in a run it wouldn't disrupt me but would certainly **** me off.
Typing a 5 letter word for you is difficult? |

Mr Blueberry
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.27 19:13:00 -
[20] - Quote
Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:Mr Blueberry wrote:
My market bot will I normally manage about 60 or so orders. If I had to prove I'm a person with Captchas 3 times in a run it wouldn't disrupt me but would certainly **** me off.
Typing a 5 letter word for you is difficult?
|

Ulstan
State Protectorate Caldari State
9
|
Posted - 2012.01.27 19:26:00 -
[21] - Quote
I hate captcha. It's more like typing two 5 letter words, one of which is (for me anyway) extremely hard to read.
Either the bot has built in max/min limits, or it doesn't.
If it doesn't have built in limits, abuse that to make the bot go bankrupt.
If it *does* have built in limits, find them, then put your order 0.01 above his. You will be trading with a much reduced spread but should be in the clear until a person comes and actually manually updates the orders. |

Sizeof Void
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
183
|
Posted - 2012.01.27 22:43:00 -
[22] - Quote
(a) Report the suspected bot. CCP probably gets tons of bot petitions, so don't expect immediate action. However, if the same player gets flagged several times for possible EULA violations, his/her name is going to eventually move up to the top of the action list. Nothing will ruin a botter's day more than getting his/her account(s) banned.
(b) Increase the buy order price and decrease the sell order price, until the bot stops competing. This will lower your profit margin, but eventually the botter will move on to greener pastures. If you are playing the market over the long haul, this is the best strategy for getting anyone - bot or aggressive player - out of your market niche. |

Trading Mathilda
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
3
|
Posted - 2012.01.27 22:58:00 -
[23] - Quote
i love market bots, they make you a shitload of isk's for free!
If you can't handle bots you are not a worthy trader, for real! |

Brewlar Kuvakei
Adeptio Gloriae
19
|
Posted - 2012.01.27 23:07:00 -
[24] - Quote
Sizeof Void wrote:(a) Report the suspected bot. CCP probably gets tons of bot petitions, so don't expect immediate action. However, if the same player gets flagged several times for possible EULA violations, his/her name is going to eventually move up to the top of the action list. Nothing will ruin a botter's day more than getting his/her account(s) banned.
(b) Increase the buy order price and decrease the sell order price, until the bot stops competing. This will lower your profit margin, but eventually the botter will move on to greener pastures. If you are playing the market over the long haul, this is the best strategy for getting anyone - bot or aggressive player - out of your market niche.
Botting is only banable on 3rd offence. CCP simply does not give a ****. CCP will not release lists of banned bots either as the pitifull ammount would anger most players who do not bot.
I'm not raging any more if you can't beat em join em, I'm fairly content now and I've cahnged my tune on the forums
Bots do not harm EVE anyway they provide free minerals and make the game better and stuff.
|

Lauren Hellfury
Full Pocket Aggro In Vitro.
284
|
Posted - 2012.01.27 23:45:00 -
[25] - Quote
Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:I'm not raging any more if you can't beat em join em,
Petition for botting? Help rid New Eden of T2 BPOs:-áhttps://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=62797 The Full Pocket Aggro blog:-á http://fullpocketaggro.blogspot.com/ Now showing: The incursion situation |

Jorn Isu
Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
21
|
Posted - 2012.01.28 00:08:00 -
[26] - Quote
Ulstan wrote:I hate captcha. It's more like typing two 5 letter words, one of which is (for me anyway) extremely hard to read.
Either the bot has built in max/min limits, or it doesn't.
If it doesn't have built in limits, abuse that to make the bot go bankrupt.
If it *does* have built in limits, find them, then put your order 0.01 above his. You will be trading with a much reduced spread but should be in the clear until a person comes and actually manually updates the orders. For what it's worth, if you hate captchas, type in gibberish in place of the easy to read word; Google is using you as slave labor to digitize text, the least you can do is insert a few dozen "*****" into their 500 year old book. |
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