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Rhovinian
Minmatar
Wasted Talent
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Posted - 2007.10.28 18:33:00 -
[1]
I have played RPG before they were even called MMO since back when they were just text based MUDS (my favorite is still running and still enjoyable Dragonrealms, but no dragons LOL). Actually before they were even online or graphic at all with BASIC programmed syntax sensitive haunted houses. Heck I was doing RPG when we had one computer in the house and it wasn't even a PC, didn't have a modem or hard drive and you needed a hole punch and to flip the disk to use both sides - TRaSh 80. Back then I was playing original D&D. Yeah I turned 38 this year. Point of this being I get the basics of entering these communities as a noob - RTFM, do the tutorial, search is your friend, ask clearly and concisely after everything else has failed.
After the string of end game mains in 4 months and 4 alts in another 3 and never making it a year in a game in the 21st century.
So I do feel I came to EveO as an informed knowledgable gamer who can minimize most 90 day regrets. And with the guide, tutorial, forums and help channel I did a fairly decent job of it - I don't think I messed up. I read the guide before I even bothered with the download. But inevitably there is something gained in the playing that you just won't get from any other source. So here they are and some are long in the explanation.
First - the game is truely open ended there is no discernable end game, not like what some games claim to be. It is refreshing and daunting at the same time. This actually is not new - it is the way RPG used to be.
Second - this flexibility comes from a player driven environment and that environment can only exist with the flexible PvP model in Eve. I have not desired PvP this century as the models are either rigid or elective - both of which are abused continuously. For all the complaints of griefing around, I think they are bologna - it isn't griefing, it is a role being played in what I think might be close to the best PvP set up ever. Is it a hassle? Sure, but I have yet found a single "grief" that I couldn't have avoided had I tried to. And I say this as someone who is going to be a target more often than not as I play roles that are not those that people claim to be griefing. Anyway, I have not sought out PvP as yet but I have come to realize that is the place where I find my future enjoyment in Eve, the rest is nice, necessary and glad it is there as it has given me a chance to get my feet wet. But the real depth and breadth of this game can not be realized as a carebear - not in Eve, you are going to have to kill and be killed. (And I came into Eve fully intending to be a carebear.)
Third (and this will be the long one) I think race is much more cruicial to the long run than anyone gives credence to. I read the guide and a good deal of the forum. I didn't know which are of Eve my main would focus on. So I selected Minmatar, Sebiestor, Rebels, Special Forces. It gave me what I thought I would want - fairly balanced attributes figuring it would allow me to explore the breadth of the game more completely and dabble in it all without a hassle to try any single thing. It has come pretty close and has not left me completely disappointed - but there is a lot more to it than "your race doesn't matter". It does in that sure every race can access every skill and item in the game - but it makes much more difference in the time to get there than most would lead otheres to believe.
So here I am 75 days old on the first character I "rolled". I have 3.62 million SP. They are spread across several interests missioning, production, mining. Pretty much in that order of focus and importance.
So I asked myself, if race doesn't matter could I have gotten my 3.62 million SP faster? After all I trained Learning to 5 and the other 10 "Learning" to 4/4 fairly quickly got +3 implants when I could and did memory, intelligence as the first priority.
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Mangala Solaris
Caldari
Sanctuary
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Posted - 2007.10.28 18:47:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Mangala Solaris on 28/10/2007 18:47:23
Brilliant post Rhovinian.
A lot of "whiners" and leet kiddies could do to have this lasered onto the inside of their eyelids.
One thing you dont cover (or at least I cant see it):
Are you enjoying EVE?
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Sanctuary
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Rhovinian
Minmatar
Wasted Talent
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Posted - 2007.10.28 19:17:00 -
[3]
OK well I have tried to post up my methodology for making this determination several times and every time I hit post reply I get a log in screen so I give up on that.
Long story short is that I could have gotten where I am today over 10% faster as an Inventor or a Knight. Which kinda of surprises me for a main which kinda dabbles in a lot of areas. I would have thought of both as great for a specialty alt but not for what I have been doing with my main.
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Rhovinian
Minmatar
Wasted Talent
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Posted - 2007.10.28 19:20:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: Mangala Solaris
Edited by: Mangala Solaris on 28/10/2007 18:47:23
Brilliant post Rhovinian.
A lot of "whiners" and leet kiddies could do to have this lasered onto the inside of their eyelids.
One thing you dont cover (or at least I cant see it):
Are you enjoying EVE?
Sorry was trying to post a long winded dissertation on evaluating the best race for getting where I am today and kept timing out of forum.
It is the most important question of all.
To this point I have to say yes. I don't know that I will for much longer if I don't find a suitable 0.0 corp. Nothing pirate as it doesn't suit my play style, I appreciate the role and will play against that role but don't desire it for myself.
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Andarvi
Caldari
InNova Tech Inc
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Posted - 2007.10.28 19:45:00 -
[5]
Well for a first char I heartly reccomend balanced attributes. For a very simple reason: what you gain in a certain set of skills (perception for combat for example), you will lose in another neccesary set (energy support skills that demand intelligence). You just can't go very wrong with balanced attributes.
Once you start training specialised alts, thats another story..
I haven't really followed my own advice though. As I started out I've choosen miner as my main profession (noob). Well after playing the game and finding the joys of mining somewhat lacking, I tried other things. But since my attributes were set for mining (high memory) I found training combat skills a bit long, but to my surprise I found memory was the prime for another set of skills - drones. This char is now a drone expert with 9 mil + in drones and deadly in a fighter or drone carrier. So it was my initial choice (flawed as it was) to determin what path would my character take.
It worked out.
Don't worry about attributes, it's not a race.
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Cipher7
VersaTech Interstellar Ltd.
SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.10.28 20:10:00 -
[6]
When you get the learning skills out the way, the difference between stats are tiny.
For example.
The different between 10 per and 9 per is %10.
The difference between 20 per and 19 per is %5.
The higher everyone pushes their attributes, the lower the % difference between their SP generation.
If you want to min/max, have at it.
To me its worth the %2 sp loss not to have to look at an Achura or Khanid face every time I login.
The other side of the equation is this.
Nobody knows what CCP is gonna do in the future.
You dont know if maybe there will be CHA based skills coming out that you will need. Then you are gonna be whining and moaning "bu hu CCP why did you make all these new skills CHA primary, I made an Achura with 3 Charisma why should I suffer" and everybody is gonna be like "cry more noob."
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Technomagez
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Posted - 2007.10.28 21:53:00 -
[7]
well, to be honset, the race doesnt really matter...
its just the look, the skill dont really matter
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Rhovinian
Minmatar
Wasted Talent
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Posted - 2007.10.29 01:15:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Andarvi
Well for a first char I heartly reccomend balanced attributes. For a very simple reason: what you gain in a certain set of skills (perception for combat for example), you will lose in another neccesary set (energy support skills that demand intelligence). You just can't go very wrong with balanced attributes.
Once you start training specialised alts, thats another story..
I haven't really followed my own advice though. As I started out I've choosen miner as my main profession (noob). Well after playing the game and finding the joys of mining somewhat lacking, I tried other things. But since my attributes were set for mining (high memory) I found training combat skills a bit long, but to my surprise I found memory was the prime for another set of skills - drones. This char is now a drone expert with 9 mil + in drones and deadly in a fighter or drone carrier. So it was my initial choice (flawed as it was) to determin what path would my character take.
It worked out.
Don't worry about attributes, it's not a race.
Two excellent points. While not stated one thing I am considering is what happens when most of my module support items are trained and I need to train high rank ships - the math of what would have gotten me where I am today does not answer what would have been better after a year.
And it is true it is not a race. And I wasn't necessarily viewing it as such which is why it was the third point and not one of the first two.
It was just the rambling of an experienced gamer on the 75 day Eve noob experience.
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Rhovinian
Minmatar
Wasted Talent
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Posted - 2007.10.29 01:20:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Cipher7
When you get the learning skills out the way, the difference between stats are tiny.
For example.
The different between 10 per and 9 per is %10.
The difference between 20 per and 19 per is %5.
The higher everyone pushes their attributes, the lower the % difference between their SP generation.
If you want to min/max, have at it.
To me its worth the %2 sp loss not to have to look at an Achura or Khanid face every time I login.
The other side of the equation is this.
Nobody knows what CCP is gonna do in the future.
You dont know if maybe there will be CHA based skills coming out that you will need. Then you are gonna be whining and moaning "bu hu CCP why did you make all these new skills CHA primary, I made an Achura with 3 Charisma why should I suffer" and everybody is gonna be like "cry more noob."
Not that the balance of my SP won't shift significantly in the future but for my SP choices to date if they continue on the same relative path the difference in SP generation is 10% that is an extra month a year of training more than tiny in my eyes. Of course I acknowledge that the next 270 days may have a completely different ratio of what attributes affect those future SPs as opposed to what I selected during my first 75.
I am not saying that I should have necessarily done my first character differently than I did (very balanced attributes) only that I had had more appreciation of the differences that race could have on development. And again it was the third thing I took away from my first 75 days. The first two items are significantly more important items that I realize now that I didn't necessarily appreciate coming in.
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Panch0Villa
Caldari
AFK
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Posted - 2007.10.29 04:04:00 -
[10]
Regarding races, I think it is important to remember that the only fixed properties of a character are base attributes, and even those get modified via implants.
The skillsets given to each race correspond to their RP weapons and ships, but these are not tied at all to characters. A Caldari character can train up the drone skills of the gallente race and armor tanking skills of the amarr race, and fly minmatar ships.
Obviously it's a bit of a timesink when you spread yourself out like that, but really, over the course of the game, you will truly only specialize in a handful of jobs/ships/skills anyways. The longer skills take a month to master, but in the time it takes to go from Cruiser IV to Cruiser V, you could learn Cruiser IV for all the other races. In the time it takes to master the use of missiles, you could become proficient in hybrids and projectile turrets. All racial Carriers require mastery of drones as a rule, thus carrier pilots by definition are expert drone pilots.
The thing to remember is that there's a law of diminishing returns when it comes to skills. Training 5 days gets you a bonus of say, 20% damage in several weapon skills (for example), and training another 25 days gets you 5% on top of that. (of course there's specializations and whatnot, but that's just semantics) Point being that you can afford to dabble in many things before you really commit to specializing in something, if you ever specialize at all.
Re vera, potas bene. |
Rhovinian
Minmatar
Wasted Talent
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Posted - 2007.10.29 04:17:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Rhovinian on 29/10/2007 04:25:43
Originally by: Panch0Villa
Point being that you can afford to dabble in many things before you really commit to specializing in something, if you ever specialize at all.
Absolutely. Part of why I have an ability to try a lot of things without a lot of bother getting there to try them - but my wallet reflects I haven't really gotten deep into their potential payoffs for specializing. I believe your key point is one of the most understated and underrecognized advantage of the skill mechanics.
People complain about the time investment and how they can't ever catch up with originals. But you know what in my view I shouldn't be able to. There is no reason I should be equivalent a year from now with someone that started 3 years ago, they will have 4 times the time I have. That is a problem with a lot of end game mechanics. Originals sit waiting for next expansion while noobs are catching them in 6 months. But at the same time I can experience during the trial 90% of the breadth of the game albeit without the depth of original players. But the mechanics also allow for me to group with and not be totally useless to a player with 3 years behind them. In no game could I perform a role as important as tackling to help kill a vastly more exprienced player.
I just came across this as well - Forum Link
Though I believe the ranking of attribute importance is more arbitrary it comes to the same conclusion I came to which is that Achura Inventors will at least early on allow for the fastest accumulation of SP in a variety of areas - allowing for deeper explorations by those in search of what direction they desire to take.
Again, I don't regret my decision. I enjoy where and how I entered Eve, while it may suggest I could have done better by about 7 days in the 75 days in game, my enjoyment and continued enjoyment didn't suffer because I chose a different combination to explore the variety of roles in Eve.
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iShip
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.10.29 09:18:00 -
[12]
Excellent post, you covered most of my concerns :)
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Derek Grim
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.10.29 11:10:00 -
[13]
Just keep rubbing your Orbs and praying to Idon for help! DragonRealms indeed!
Repectfully,
-- Derek Grim
Remember - Wherever you go, there you are. |
Wotlankor
FM Corp
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Posted - 2007.10.29 12:10:00 -
[14]
I endorse this post.
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Frelix
Eve University
Ivy League
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Posted - 2007.10.29 14:11:00 -
[15]
Good post
_________________________
Yeah I turned 38 this year.
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But you're still just a youngin'.
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Ymandra Raystara
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.10.29 16:42:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Ymandra Raystara on 29/10/2007 16:43:34
Very nice post. I'm still firmly in my newbie days and your post resonates. There are other reasons that a general hodge-podge of attributes and skills is useful this early as well. Among them are the fact that specializing not only costs skill training time, it also costs a HEFTY amount of ISK. Even if I wanted to specialize right now, there's no way I can *afford* the ships/items/modules that the specialization will allow me to use.
Staying "general" in the early days, like you and I are -- missioning, mining, production (well, I don't produce), trade, etc. -- give the time to experience the breadth as you stated. Depth costs ISK (in the multi-millions), and that right now is a more prescious commodity than time. Breadth is cheap and while you won't see immediate gains, it will still pave the way for ISK accumalation until the day you decide what you truly want to do.
And I'll echo what someone else stated about memory. I too focused on memory and intelligence as I originally rolled miner. My perception and willpower were sub-par and now I'm realizing what a problem it will be for training ships. However, as the person said, memory is also for drones, and since I'm Gallente -- it's really helpful. There's no "bad" stat and all except charisma play a large role in combat skills.
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Ymandra's Profile |
Rhovinian
Minmatar
Wasted Talent
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Posted - 2007.10.29 17:11:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Rhovinian on 29/10/2007 17:12:48
Ymandra - excellent point on what it would have cost in ISK to specialize beyond time and having not decided yet.
Derek - my ranger prefers rubbing the orbs of Everild. Yeah I have much experience and ranks in expressing frustration over profession development. Never experienced nerfing as they were out of the box max nerfed. LOL - fun times there.
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