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Kai Shinkachi	Posted - 2007.10.29 16:45:00 - [1] I looked around for the appropriate forum for this and didn't find a specific one so I figured I should put this here... Can we get kill rights on someone if they steal our salvage? It is not fair that when a thief comes we cannot do anything to stop him at all. I mean some theives are dumb and stay while the NPCs are still attacking and you can warp out. But it's utter crap that we cannot shoot them for stealing. If they steal from a wreck it should be the same as stealing from a can. So please can that little change be made? Because now that I can finally run a L4 decently my wrecks are being stolen by some little ****er and I'd like to hand him a plate full of Ogres and Neutron blasters. But then I would get WTFCONCORDPWNED.
ZoKHiZz	Posted - 2007.10.29 16:55:00 - [2] I agree totally on this one.
Solid NL	Posted - 2007.10.29 16:57:00 - [3] No, people can salvage your wrecks without any actions taken against them. Dunno what ccp it standpoint is against this issue. Greetz Solid
Pwett Minmatar QUANT Corp. QUANT Hegemony	Posted - 2007.10.29 17:30:00 - [4] CCP's stand is that wrecks are owned by no one. _______________ Pwett CEO and Founder [QTC]QUANT Corp.
Kai Shinkachi	Posted - 2007.10.29 19:07:00 - [5] Really? Then why is there a corp tag right next to all my wrecks hmm? Personally I think that is bull** that people cannot do anything about some guy stealing wrecks. This isn't some whine that "salvage thiefs are too fast" it's they cannot be stopped! Which is not right, at least make it hard for them to get away, make it so that the person who worked hard on that mission can get his pay. I mean take Guristas extravaganza. 5mil pay from agent, and 60mil in salvage and loot! And some little **er comes and takes it and there is nothing you can do? I'm sorry that's crap and you know it, and so does CCP. It's not like I'm asking for anything astronomical I'm asking for a chance to defend my wrecks and loot from thieves like I should be allowed to do without being destroyed by concord. And if I don't get that right then why bother running missions anymore? Take missions out of EVE if we cannot get our own wrecks.
Helen Hunts Gallente Red Dragon Mining inc	Posted - 2007.10.29 19:37:00 - [6] Don't know about you, but I salvage as I go through missions. As time pressures increase, I'll either have a corpie following me doing cleanup, or drag an alt along for the task. After all, a ninja-salvager can't salvage what isn't there anymore. _______________________________ Mine da rocks, make more ships. Pop da rats, make more rigs. Sell da gear, make more money. Any Questions?
Xaen Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.10.29 19:38:00 - [7] Originally by: Kai Shinkachi Really? Then why is there a corp tag right next to all my wrecks hmm? Personally I think that is bull** that people cannot do anything about some guy stealing wrecks. This isn't some whine that "salvage thiefs are too fast" it's they cannot be stopped! Which is not right, at least make it hard for them to get away, make it so that the person who worked hard on that mission can get his pay. I mean take Guristas extravaganza. 5mil pay from agent, and 60mil in salvage and loot! And some little **er comes and takes it and there is nothing you can do? I'm sorry that's crap and you know it, and so does CCP. It's not like I'm asking for anything astronomical I'm asking for a chance to defend my wrecks and loot from thieves like I should be allowed to do without being destroyed by concord. And if I don't get that right then why bother running missions anymore? Take missions out of EVE if we cannot get our own wrecks. I agree. If wrecks are there for the taking by anyone, why do they have my corp tag on them? Why can only I tractor them? Why will blowing them up flag everyone but me? Also, just for the record... Anyone invading your mission and stealing salvage is primarily doing it to cause you grief. As a last ditch effort you can always blow up the wrecks before the griefers can get to the cans. -- Support fixing the EVE UI
Yachiru Kenpachi	Posted - 2007.10.29 19:48:00 - [8] The wrecks belong to the pirate corporation. The loot inside the wreck belongs to you. Criminally flagging salvagers only increases the number of ways to grief them, and will stop people from doing it, lowering supply, and increasing rig prices. The number of "professional" mission runners who say they make more ISK / Hour from just powering through missions and ignoring Loot&Salavage says that having salvage be a first come first served is the only way it can remain viable.
Tsanse Kinske WeMeanYouKnowHarm	Posted - 2007.10.29 19:52:00 - [9] Originally by: Kai Shinkachi Really? Then why is there a corp tag right next to all my wrecks hmm? Personally I think that is bull** that people cannot do anything about some guy stealing wrecks. This isn't some whine that "salvage thiefs are too fast" it's they cannot be stopped! Which is not right, at least make it hard for them to get away, make it so that the person who worked hard on that mission can get his pay. I mean take Guristas extravaganza. 5mil pay from agent, and 60mil in salvage and loot! And some little *er comes and takes it and there is nothing you can do? I'm sorry that's crap and you know it, and so does CCP. It's not like I'm asking for anything astronomical I'm asking for a chance to defend my wrecks and loot from thieves like I should be allowed to do without being destroyed by concord. And if I don't get that right then why bother running missions anymore? Take missions out of EVE if we cannot get our own wrecks. Funny, I remember people running missions just fine before wrecks and salvage even existed not too long ago, and other than that the rewards are about the same. And I know that many people don't bother salvaging missions themselves even now. It can be very profitable, but it's also boring. If you don't think missions are worthwhile without salvage, and you're unwilling to do what it takes to make sure you get all the salvage all the time, and you're not going to go somewhere you can shoot people freely, it sounds like you should do something else. * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. -Douglas Adams, writing about EVE
Angel DeMorphis	Posted - 2007.10.29 19:58:00 - [10] If you want to shoot people who want to salvage your mission wrecks, go to low sec. That's what it's there for...
Kai Shinkachi	Posted - 2007.10.29 21:19:00 - [11] I still think that's a load of crap, and going to lowsec is not an option for a low SP character who cannot afford to replace battleships regularly. Also, I cannot play 24/7 so I do not have the time to make money just off of mission pay I am not that lucky mate. Oh and in addition to that my CORP TAG is on that wreck, you may as well remove that because it's crap that someone can take all the wrecks and that I cannot do anything about it whatsoever. Give me a way to keep them from taking my salvage from me.
syphurous Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2007.10.29 21:55:00 - [12] First of all, STFU, seriously, whine some more please, it makes you look big. Originally by: Kai Shinkachi I still think that's a load of crap, and going to lowsec is not an option for a low SP character who cannot afford to replace battleships regularly. What is a low SP character doing in a battleship ? ___ Drones hold a special place in my hull, its called a drone bay.
Tsanse Kinske WeMeanYouKnowHarm	Posted - 2007.10.29 22:06:00 - [13] Originally by: Kai Shinkachi Oh and in addition to that my CORP TAG is on that wreck, Yes, so that you can tractor it, and blow it up without getting Concorded. If you think those are bugs you'd like to get fixed, submit a petition. Quote: Give me a way to keep them from taking my salvage from me. It's called learning to do missions faster or with a lower profile, using a salvage alt, teaming up with somebody else, and/or getting the hell out of Motsu / Saila / Dodixie / whatever hub you're in. * * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. -Douglas Adams, writing about EVE
Kai Shinkachi	Posted - 2007.10.29 22:08:00 - [14] Edited by: Kai Shinkachi on 29/10/2007 22:10:49 Low meaning below 10mil in SP, which is pretty much what is needed for lowsec rampages.... And I am not whining to look big or be a troll, believe me if i wanted to complain about stupid things I would. But for someone like me who takes a while to complete a lvl4 and having all the salvage on your first one snatched by some jack*** in a cruiser... it's nuts! I mean all I ask is that I can do something to that guy. It's not like with other problems there is a written solution. You cannot stop a salvage theif, and some missions are worth a lot of money and these little twerps steal everything and I cannot shoot them! Geeze....I don't even want to kill the person, I just wanna make em leave my wrecks alone. EDIT: Well, then that corp tag should keep thieves away. And as for doing missions faster, then by all means give me a way to train skills faster. And honesty some people cannot afford an alt or the time it takes to train salvaging on one of those characters that you have an empty slot for. That can set me back pretty hard. Is it really too much to ask to be able to shoot these people?
syphurous Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2007.10.29 22:26:00 - [15] Originally by: Kai Shinkachi and some missions are worth a lot of money and these little twerps steal everything and I cannot shoot them! Its not stealing, you dont own it. Only reason it has a corp tag is because it was coded off the same code as jet cans use, it gives you the right to tractor beam the wrecks which is your only benefit. Every item in space has to be associated to a corp. You may remember when there was an issue and they all belonged to the NPC Eve Bank holding corp. CCP stated that salvage is free for all, and that was always going to be intended. Get out of busy systems and you wont have any issues. If your in high sec its your drones that are helping them find you. ___ Drones hold a special place in my hull, its called a drone bay.
ZoKHiZz	Posted - 2007.10.30 12:40:00 - [16] Originally by: Tsanse Kinske It's called learning to do missions faster or with a lower profile, using a salvage alt, teaming up with somebody else, and/or getting the hell out of Motsu / Saila / Dodixie / whatever hub you're in. Faster? there is not many ways one can do the missions a lot faster when you are alone in raven :), that is if you have even some sense of what you are doing there. Also do mind that not everyone plays this game with multiple alts, nor everyone plays this game with friends. Also its kinda stupid to force ppl out from good spot to do missions in high sec space just because of someone who is "abusing" the game mechanics.
Tsanse Kinske WeMeanYouKnowHarm	Posted - 2007.10.30 15:05:00 - [17] Originally by: ZoKHiZz Originally by: Tsanse Kinske It's called learning to do missions faster or with a lower profile, using a salvage alt, teaming up with somebody else, and/or getting the hell out of Motsu / Saila / Dodixie / whatever hub you're in. Faster? there is not many ways one can do the missions a lot faster when you are alone in raven :), that is if you have even some sense of what you are doing there. Also do mind that not everyone plays this game with multiple alts, nor everyone plays this game with friends. Also its kinda stupid to force ppl out from good spot to do missions in high sec space just because of someone who is "abusing" the game mechanics. Yes, and "not everyone" is going to be able to collect all the salvage from all their missions all the time, as long as they make those decisions. NOT to play with alts, NOT to play with others, NOT to move out of that hub, etc. Decisions matter. Ain't EVE grand? * * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. -Douglas Adams, writing about EVE
Omarvelous Destry's Lounge	Posted - 2007.10.30 15:28:00 - [18] Your whine has inspired me to go to a high sec mission hub with my probe ship. Seriously - its a multiplayer game - get a corp mate or friend to salvage as you run the mission (I do it all the time). I don't feel bad that savvy salvagers are cutting into your eleventy billion isk/hour mission running. This game isn't meant to be played solo - if you play it that way then expect others to cash in on your selfishness. __________________________________________________ Sup brosef! Destry's Lounge is looking for a few good drunks - contact me in game.
Kerfira	Posted - 2007.10.30 16:00:00 - [19] Edited by: Kerfira on 30/10/2007 16:00:14 Look in the other 892745 threads about this subject.... Oh, and go back to WoW if you want a fluffy happy-happy land. This is EVE! Read my sig! EDIT: Post above mine FULLY sums it up. Stop whining! Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
Kerfira	Posted - 2007.10.30 16:03:00 - [20] Originally by: ZoKHiZz Also its kinda stupid to force ppl out from good spot to do missions in high sec space just because of someone who is "abusing" the game mechanics. Game mechanics aren't being 'abused'. They're being used exactly as they're intended! In case you didn't get the memo.... POSSESSION in EVE determines ownership. Not some silly tag on a wreck... It's only 'Yours' if it's in your ship hold (unless someone blows you up and takes it), or if it's in a station hangar of yours! Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
Anaalys Fluuterby Caldari	Posted - 2007.10.30 16:42:00 - [21] From Prism X: Quote: If we end up having to chose between the salvagers right to salvage whatever he finds and the mission runners right to salvage his own loot without competition and getting rights to pwn empire salvagers, we'd probably go for the former. You can read the thread HERE Simply, Salvaging is a mini-profession, it is not a mission runner's entitlement program. And yes, I am a mission runner. If you have problems with people salvaging your junk laying around move to a less populated system. Originally by: CCP Chronotis Since this thread continues to fight against the people who derail it into the macro miners witchhunt. I will move it to features and ideas discussion where ...
Grishnarg	Posted - 2007.10.30 17:02:00 - [22] And one of the reasons for this mechanic to stay as it is, is that wrecks generate lag. So all the "salvage stealers" is actually minimizing lag, and that is a great thing!
digital0verdose Caldari	Posted - 2007.10.30 17:34:00 - [23] Originally by: syphurous First of all, STFU, seriously, whine some more please, it makes you look big. Originally by: Kai Shinkachi I still think that's a load of crap, and going to lowsec is not an option for a low SP character who cannot afford to replace battleships regularly. What is a low SP character doing in a battleship ? Whatever he wants. That or he missed the rules at the beginning of the game saying "Thou shalt not fly a BS without at least 8mil SP." --------------------------------------
Jezabel2	Posted - 2007.10.30 18:10:00 - [24] I thought everyone would go the other way, I mean u flag to the mission runner, the mission runner now has the choice to pvp or not :). Ive been to other games that allow this kind of thing and while sometimes I don't like it they are there normally to encourage pvp and drama. In High-sec/low-sec/ and 0.0 you should be able to fight over what you believe is yours and defend it, just don't be surprised if u get blown up :). The ability to salvage something other people clearly view as their own with minimal risk (not hard to do it in a bc/battleship)doesn't fit with the overall game mechanics. How about make any salvager flag to everyone (excluding gang/corp members of course) within 100km of what you are salvaging?^^
Jones Maloy Minmatar Unified Naval Command	Posted - 2007.10.30 18:16:00 - [25] i was thinking of training scan probes just to find the wrecks everyone keeps leaving. i didn't think i was stealing because i assumed everyone just leaves them there. so i'm going to ask first from now on. i think they should have the same flagging rights as other loot cans untill they are half was through their time in existance (halfway to dissappearing). i find wrecks all over the place just sitting there. i'd hate not to be able to salvage them for fear of getting killed. it might be a good idea to have cans and wrecks go neutral at the half-way point to dissappearing. in fact that sounds like a good enough idea to push on ccp. --- WCS Nerf yes i'm still angry
Angel DeMorphis	Posted - 2007.10.30 18:30:00 - [26] Originally by: Kai Shinkachi I still think that's a load of crap, and going to lowsec is not an option for a low SP character who cannot afford to replace battleships regularly. Also, I cannot play 24/7 so I do not have the time to make money just off of mission pay I am not that lucky mate. Oh and in addition to that my CORP TAG is on that wreck, you may as well remove that because it's crap that someone can take all the wrecks and that I cannot do anything about it whatsoever. Give me a way to keep them from taking my salvage from me. Well, if you're not going to take the higher risk, you don't deserve the higher reward. Live with it, or move on. Oh! Or are you only so tough you can only take on a destroyer as a dedicated salvage ship, and not actually big enough to take on anyone that might be able to put up something of a fight? I see, I see. Dude, you seriously need to get over it.
Jenni Concarnadine	Posted - 2007.10.31 09:59:00 - [27] I'm probably making a mistake, but I carry salvager modules on my mission-running shipz, and I salvage as I go. I also try hard not to agress against the distant ships till I've cleared the nearby wrecks. So far I'm still finishing missions within bonus limits, but they are L1s. And, yes, I do occasionally salvage from deserted wrecks, but only when they're no-cargo wrecks and I've checked the owner flag (not the corps, the owner), and found that they aren't anywhere in local. I see it as keeping the place tidy. And if somebody feels the need to salvage my wrecks in-mission, then they may as well take the mission over too. Eventually my agent will give me something else, and there's always mining or ratting in my starter ship (which I keep in-hanger for just such a situation). * * * * * Hamsters don't overload very well
ZoKHiZz	Posted - 2007.10.31 10:59:00 - [28] Ok how to say this, i dont mind ppl stealing stuff in EVE or any other kind of piracy and whatnot. But do you see the difference that if some pirate tries to wtfpwn you in low sec, you have the change to fight back. But against wreck stealers you cannot do nothing but forfeit your wrecks away, either by blowing up or just leaving them there for the stealer. All i am asking is a change to fight back the stealers, i am not asking for it to be removed.
Xaen Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.10.31 13:01:00 - [29] Originally by: Kerfira Game mechanics aren't being 'abused'. They're being used exactly as they're intended! No they're not. Probing out missions was never intended to be this easy. It didn't used to be. -- Support fixing the EVE UI
Asteroid Bandit	Posted - 2007.10.31 17:24:00 - [30] Originally by: Xaen Originally by: Kerfira Game mechanics aren't being 'abused'. They're being used exactly as they're intended! No they're not. Probing out missions was never intended to be this easy. It didn't used to be. It also used to be that salvaging didn't exist... so I guess salvaging is an abuse of game mechanics. Salvaging was introduced so that anyone could salvage any wreck, there is no ownership, so there is no stealing. If you don't like how the mechanic works, then don't use it, but don't complain that it was implemented unfairly. You didn't used to have wrecks to salvage and now you do, but they were never given to the mission runner alone. You may have blown up the wreck, but you did it for the bounty and the loot and the mission rewards, salvage was never part of the bargain. Its new and its intended for everybody. How ridiculous would you consider it if when a person started mining or ratting in a belt the entire belt was flagged to him and he could shoot anyone else who tried to mine or rat there? He got there first, he chained the spawns, he cleared the rats for the miners, why shouldn't the whole belt be his? But seriously volumes has been written on this subject and the word has come down that it is the right of everybody to salvage any wreck, so in the eternal spirit of eve adapt or die.

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