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Cupdeez
Vengeance of the Fallen
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Posted - 2007.10.29 17:05:00 -
[1]
Bombs need to be fixed.
If i spend 18-20 mil on a bomb you would think it could kill a frigate!! I took out 5 ships and put them on a gate then dropped a bomb and looked at how much damage it did to everyship and it was horrible.
Vigil after bomb = 1/2 armor
Vegabond = 50% sheilds
Hunin = 40% shields
My hound = 0% sheilds
Flycatcher 50% sheilds
Bombs should be able to kill these smaller ships. I can under stand if the vegabond had a large sheild extender but stock they should go POP. A bomb that should do 8,000 damage the best hit I had was 1,000.
Things to fix it:
1. Don't base the bomb on ship radius
2. change the Min requirements so people use them
instead of fixing unbroken things why not fix the things that don't work like BOMBS!
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SpaceSlag
Dragons Of Redemption
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.10.29 17:52:00 -
[2]
Edited by: SpaceSlag on 29/10/2007 17:52:50
Have your buddies in the Vigil, Vagabond, Hunin, and Flycatcher, engage their MWD orbiting the same said gate at 500m.
Warp in.
Drop bomb.
Warp out.
Then have them put an x in gang if they're dead. You'll find more x's this time 'round. Fo those of whom are not dead, report back their damages. It's a lot more. I promise.
Become a pirate without fear of death!
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Cupdeez
Vengeance of the Fallen
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Posted - 2007.10.29 18:06:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Cupdeez on 29/10/2007 18:06:43
Yes cause the bomb works on radius Sig but don't you see my point.. Its a BOMB why should radius sig change anything... Thats like saying hey look I'm going to put a bomb in the middle of this town and the little building is only going to take 100 damage and the big building is going to take 200 damage..
Itz a bomb everything in the radius should be effected the same. That and any ship with MWD can get 15km away before the thing goes Boom anyways.
The bombs are pointless at this point. 20 mil each and do nothing to 10 ceptors camping on a gate.
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Donathan Slade
Kay Korporation
Knights Of the Southerncross
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Posted - 2007.10.29 19:06:00 -
[4]
The same reasons torps don't kill a frig when it hits it?
But Smartbombs arn't affected, so.. no idea.
but for 20 mill... that does seem to be a little too little damage considering you hurt yourself.. Oh, and for those saying warp away, I'm told that bombs don't go off if you warp away.
-=-=-=-
Kay Korp - Recruiting
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SpaceSlag
Dragons Of Redemption
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.10.29 19:43:00 -
[5]
Let's look at this rationally here:
If you could imagine placing building A (1 meter deep, 10 meters tall, and 1 meter wide) made of a titanium alloy directly across from building B (1 meter deep, 10 meters tall, 10 meters wide) made of the same titanium alloy. Then, place a tactical nuclear bomb in the middle of the two, say for argument's sake 10km between each building. The explosion does more mathematical destruction to the larger surface area building then the building with less surface area towards the bomb - by 10 fold. If you were then to image 3D objects in space, moving in 4 dimensions, then instead of surface area - use signature radius. After all, how large a ship is in eve (RL) may be defined as it's Signature Radius. Targeting guns to a small object takes time, as does targeting a small signature radius. Hurting a large object should be easier to do then hurting a smaller one.
Basically, it's easier to hit the side of a barn then to find a needle in a hay stack.
Become a pirate without fear of death!
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Donathan Slade
Kay Korporation
Knights Of the Southerncross
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Posted - 2007.10.29 20:03:00 -
[6]
Then explain why smartbombs don't have sig radius?
Lets take your "same" example but put it in smaller tersm.. My Mustang, vs your 18 wheeler Big Rig. Same bomb. Mustang = Nothing left, Truck = half there.
So, why in his example is the "mustang" still there? Less surface area, but it should be GONE!!!
But seriously, if he can't even kill a T1 or a T2 frig.. with a 20 million isk weapon. whats the point in even using them?
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Kay Korp - Recruiting
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Cupdeez
Vengeance of the Fallen
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Posted - 2007.10.29 21:02:00 -
[7]
10 vigils 400 damage each = all alive but all have armor damage.
You launch a bomb your going to lose your Stealth Bomber, your probably going to lose your POD and your not going to get a single kill.
Stealth bomber = 10 mil on the cheap side
Bomb = 18-20 mil
POD = 7-10 mil
for nothing! I should just warp in with a damn smartbombing Megathron. 8 Large smartbombs 300 damage each = 2400 DPS and I can turn them on in 11 sec. i don't have to wait another 2 mins to use it again!
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SpaceSlag
Dragons Of Redemption
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.10.29 21:05:00 -
[8]
Edited by: SpaceSlag on 29/10/2007 21:08:24
Edited by: SpaceSlag on 29/10/2007 21:07:05
1. Smartbombs are borked.
2. Look at the mustang vs semi-truck argument again. If we're using a large bomb, then take the profile view of both vehicles. The ONLY reason why the semi-truck [i]may[/] survive is because of the mass of the object. However, if you were to look at percentage damaged in relationship to your mustang, then the semi-truck with trailer would have more damage done to it. If no trailer, then the mass is the only difference in the two objects. Furthermore, anything with a larger profile than something else when both objects are equal distant to the same explosion will be damaged more just because more of the objects total make-up is distributed perpendicular to the explosion's direction.
 Originally by: Cupdeez
10 vigils 400 damage each = all alive but all have armor damage.
You launch a bomb your going to lose your Stealth Bomber, your probably going to lose your POD and your not going to get a single kill.
Stealth bomber = 10 mil on the cheap side
Bomb = 18-20 mil
POD = 7-10 mil
for nothing! I should just warp in with a damn smartbombing Megathron. 8 Large smartbombs 300 damage each = 2400 DPS and I can turn them on in 11 sec. i don't have to wait another 2 mins to use it again!
You can actually NOT lose your SB when in the explosion range of your own bomb. Here's how:
1. Tank for the damage type
2. Don't fit AB or MWD.
**I've tested all this out and don't have 100% OMG-WTF UBER skills in everything.
Become a pirate without fear of death!
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Donathan Slade
Kay Korporation
Knights Of the Southerncross
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Posted - 2007.10.29 21:16:00 -
[9]
Smarbombs are kinda weird. But, because you are target and they just go boom, take a ton of camp and are only a 5k range.. yeah...
Back to the trucks.. Yes, but at least "some" of the truck is salvageable. Because the mustang would be 100% gone as it is totally encompassed by the explosion. In RL anyway. sig radius, well, thats different And your example explains sig radius. And i'm explaining why sig radius on a bomb for the game to RL mechanics doesn't make sence..
ESPECIALLY since you can't kill **** and dropping a bomb, hurting yourself to die and get zero kills is dropping as he said... 40 Mill down the drain for zero kills. For what? I mean, if a dictor can survive a DD, whats the point of a "bomb" that can't kill anything and costs 20 mill? I would rather spend 40 mill on 2 stealth bombers with fittings. Its just not worth the money.
-=-=-=-
Kay Korp - Recruiting
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SpaceSlag
Dragons Of Redemption
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.10.29 21:20:00 -
[10]
Just edited my post to make sense with everything.
Become a pirate without fear of death!
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Cupdeez
Vengeance of the Fallen
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Posted - 2007.10.29 21:37:00 -
[11]
Look I don't care if I don't kill a damn Battleship with my bomb but it should be able to kill cruisers, assult frigates, interdictors, ceptors, and frigates unless they have a massive amount of hit points or shield resistance.
The reason you will die in your bomber is no because of the bomb. The bomb only took 300 hitpoints off my stealth bomber. The reason you will die is because when you launch the bomb your agroed and you have to get within 15km of your targets. All targets shooting you probably in a dictor bubble = death. Not only that but stealth bombers are extremely slow with only about 1,000 hitpoints.
CCP needs todo something if they want people to use them.
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SpaceSlag
Dragons Of Redemption
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.10.30 03:30:00 -
[12]
About the dictor bubble of death and killing groups, or anything big, you're right. I actually agree with you that they need work. I was just saying sig radius should be part of the equation. Just don't ask me what the exact equation should be. The only real way to do damage in a Stealth Bomber is to shoot off multiple bombs with a gang of Stealth Bombers at the same time (up to eight I believe) and warp off ASAP. Without the next patch, (approaching target like using a moon probe and releasing the ordinance) then Stealth Bombers and Bombs are totally useless. Additionally, all ships should be nerfed 10%-25% HP so these ships may be useful again. That damned Revelations patch broke Stealth Bombers period.
Become a pirate without fear of death!
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Silica Jane
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Posted - 2007.10.30 12:13:00 -
[13]
IMO, there shouldn't be any kind of 'super' weapon that instantaneously kills ships. With this proviso, more than one bomb is dropped at the same time.
i.e. There is more than one bomber. It isn't going to be much fun being at the wrong end of a bomb if it can just eradicate you instantaneously. In other words, bad for the game, not fun, nerfworthy.
I imagine the devs have made it this way so we don't have 1 man armies and some co-operation is nescessary to kill ships en masse.
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Cupdeez
Vengeance of the Fallen
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Posted - 2007.10.30 14:03:00 -
[14]
Yes but the only ships I might beable to kill all pack an MWD and could easily get 15km away from the bomb then come back and kill you. They just have to pay attention.
also getting a bunch of people at 15km is not an easy task.
If the bombs only do a little damage they should not cost 20 mil to make
or They should do more damage. I should atleast get a kill mail if i deploy my bomb well.
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sh4rp ov3rvolt
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Posted - 2007.10.30 14:13:00 -
[15]
Edited by: sh4rp ov3rvolt on 30/10/2007 14:16:12
Edited by: sh4rp ov3rvolt on 30/10/2007 14:15:15
Maybe they were meant as a weapon to be used by a stealth bomber well syncronized team...
10 bombers, they warp on a bs blob, deploy bombs and go...
they would cause more than 200M isk worth of damage,don't you agree?
p.s. if there is also a suicide dictor, deploying a bubble on stealth bomber departure, then  ...
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Donathan Slade
Kay Korporation
Knights Of the Southerncross
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Posted - 2007.10.30 14:28:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Donathan Slade on 30/10/2007 14:28:40
Ok, but thats IF you can kill those BS's with 10 bombs. That would be 200 mill in isk to buy the bombs to what? Kill 1, maybe 2 BS? Honestly. thats also TEN player. How many BS Blobs are going to stick around for a T2 10 man strike squad? Especially if they know they bombers. They would think crap.. thats 30 cruise missiles, and could rather kill more with 10 bomber using cruise missiles.
To Equip a bomb and a MWD, you kill all your CPU to really allow you to equip any cruise missiles in general. Even with Arbs. Even a Manticore with in EFT with "All 5" you can only fit 1mn MWD2, bomb launcher and ONE cruise launcher.
So, your sacrificing TWO cruise launchers for one bomb. AND making yourself vulnerable to insta-locks, web, scram. They just are not worth it for how little damage they do and for the price they cost to make. Yeah, a well placed bomb at the right time can get a few kills, but your also talking having to get multiple targets within 15k in a fleet battle. (thats kind of hard too ya know).
Edit: the only known time you get ships within 15k is sniper bs at 200 off a gate camp. And even then, your not going to get 10 bombers to jump through a gate camp to bomb the crap out of the sniper fleet. (they tank too ya know)
-=-=-=-
Kay Korp - Recruiting
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Phoenixhawk
Caldari
Farscape Mining
Hitchhiker's Alliance
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Posted - 2007.10.30 15:43:00 -
[17]
tbh, Bombs are just something the guys at CCP tossed in as candy, it adds content to the patch, They come a shiny wrapper, and 5 minutes later (or a patch or two) its all gone. Don't believe me? I've got a set of Mine BPO's I'll sell ya 
Stay Chilly & Watch Your Six!
Space Vampire |
SpaceSlag
Dragons Of Redemption
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.10.30 17:48:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Phoenixhawk
tbh, Bombs are just something the guys at CCP tossed in as candy, it adds content to the patch, They come a shiny wrapper, and 5 minutes later (or a patch or two) its all gone. Don't believe me? I've got a set of Mine BPO's I'll sell ya
WTB those mine BPO's. 4 mil for the whole lot.
How to fix bombs for the playability and keep physics:
Do one of two things; reduce all minerals required to make the bombs by 1000% (10x) OR increase the damage output by 1000% (including capacitor bomb & ECM bomb).
1. Keep signature radius coefficient.
2. Keep the volume bombs use.
3. Increase the build time and all research times on them by 300%.
4. Bomb launcher should give ship that it is onlined on 99.9999999% resistances for all bombs.
5. Bomb launcher should increase the recloaking time to 15 seconds with maxed skills.
Become a pirate without fear of death!
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Methinkstoomuch
Caldari
Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2007.11.02 17:01:00 -
[19]
I think ppl are missing the point. Stealth bombing is a team sport :-). They were designed to break up gate camps or fleets. Say 4 stealth bombers drop in or jump into a gatecamp. Depending on discipline some will run with MWD and may get popped, some will stay and deal with damage. Either way you have caused a reaction and focus on the bombers. Then you bring in your tacklers and damage dealers. You may not do serious damage but it will make the damaged ships easier to kill.
The non-damage bombs also play a role if used properly. How do you think a carrier or dread will react when 4 or 5 bombers swoop in and drop a void bomb. 6000 cap gone each if I am correct. You might loose a few bombers if there is support but you will drastically reduce their ability to rep not to mention what that will do to any nearby medium or large ships. Attacking cap ships with bombs can be useful if done right.
Then the lockbreaker can be a saving grace if you have been locked down by tacklers. I honestly thing the void bomb is one of the best for crippling cap ships. The standard damage bombs are too expensive which is why I use 3 T2 cruise launchers on mine. 2000 damage per volley and the firing rate beats the bombs by a huge margin.
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